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Ten Deep 09.03.09: Movie Serial Killers
Posted by Owain J. Brimfield on 09.03.2009







Welcome to week 45 of 'Ten Deep'! Before we move on to this week's morbid topic, last week's look at the best cult movies had the commenters out in droves, with lots of:

Reactions and interactions

We had a lot of debate as to the ranking order of the list's top three, with a number of people who thought Rocky Horror or Spinal Tap should have beaten out Life of Brian, which shows the virtues of healthy debate. Thanks mainly to the fact that I didn't spend too long defining what was actually to be considered "cult" last week, we had more suggestions than I think I've ever seen for this column. I don't have time to cover each and every one, but let's consider the more frequently suggested contenders:

The Big Lebowski - yes, I completely forgot about this one, and it would have made it quite near the top of the list. Apologies, dudes.

The Crow - a classic cult movie to be sure, and I guess it could have sneaked into the top ten had I been in a different mood when drawing up the list, but I didn't think it had quite the cult following it apparently does.

Blade Runner - you mean the film consistently regarded as one of the finest science fiction movies ever made? Not cult as far as I'm concerned, homeys.

They Live - cut out at the shortlist stage, but I do have a lot of time for Roddy Piper's battle against the alien hordes.

Elsewhere, Bill21GigaWatts has an absolutely huge list of suggestions, half of which I haven't even heard of let alone seen, but judging from a lot of them I think he missed that one of my criteria was no "so bad they're good"-type films, as otherwise I'd have never been able to narrow it down to ten, just as Guest#9054 implies. A few of his suggestions though did make the initial shortlist, like Pink Flamingos ("the greatest movie of all-time", A trailer? Really?) and Freaks.

Lots of people including Torvald and Todd Vote seem to despise Donnie Darko, which is definitely one of those treasured 'Marmite' films, and fair enough. Still, you can't deny its immense following.

Guest#8900 gets the points for being the first to answer the Clockwork Orange question, although Guest#7944 has a somewhat different interpretation of the inspiration for the novel's title. I think Burgess was indeed going more for the whole organic/mechanical dichotomy.

Mister Fear_Inc. misspells a bunch of his decidedly non-cult suggestions and then demands "Correct me!". I have neither the time nor the inclination, sir.

A personal fave of mine suggested by Guest#3290 is Kung Pow: Enter the Fist, which wasn't good enough to make the list, but I have happy memories of getting stoned and watching that film several times over. That's a lot of nuts! Kudos too to the guy who suggested Norbit, which gave me a hearty, healthy chuckle.

Moving on!

Taking somewhat of a lethargically timely theme this week as Rob Zombie's latest attempt to defenestrate the Halloween legacy hits the multiplexes, we'll be looking at some of the greatest serial killers in all of moviedom. Everyone loves a good villain, or even a good antihero, and serial killers represent the worst (or best) facets of that. What constitutes a serial killer as opposed to a mass murderer, or other semantic derivation? Let's say for these purposes, someone who murders multiple people, whether on-screen or not, principally for psychological gratification, since that's similar to what Wikipedia recommends. Real-life and fictional killers are both eligible, but there haven't been all that many truly great depictions of real-world serial killers, or at least not many that will compete with those creations on this list. No TV shows, so no sign of Dexter, more's the pity. Oh, and no supernatural killers either, so bye-bye to Jason, Freddy, Michael and the rest. Is Michael Myers really supernatural, I hear you cry? I think so, but that's really a debate in and of itself and probably one for resident expert Joseph Lee to deal with, so I'll leave that for the comments section.

As always, there's one golden rule: if I haven't seen it, it's not allowed on the list.

This week's golden rule notable omissions: Behind the Mask, Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer, Man Bites Dog, Monster, Peeping Tom






Honorable mention: Mickey & Mallory Knox, in Natural Born Killers

You can't have one without the other and I didn't really want to spoil the concept of the list, but they deserve a mention.

Honorable mention: Son of Sam, in Summer of Sam

All the more unnerving for being based on a true story.

Honorable mention: Early Grayce, in Kalifornia

One of Brad Pitt's finest performances in an under-seen thriller.



10. Jigsaw, in the Saw series




Despite being seemingly omnipresent in the movie world ever since the first Saw movie did relatively well at the box office and some ingenious exec in a darkened boardroom thought "yes, this seems like a franchise with the creative juice to power five to eight sequels over the course of the next decade", John Kramer the Jigsaw Killer only makes it into the number ten slot since he doesn't actually kill any of his victims directly. Well, with the caveat that I got bored with the series after the third film, but since he dies in that one I figure there's not much chance of breaking that trend in the subsequent sequels. However, while I can't in all conscience allow him any higher in the list thanks to that little stipulation, he's a great example of the absolute prime factor for creating a great villain, as he fully believes that what he's doing is right, and that fervor only makes him more powerful (see also: Magneto, CM Punk). Seeking to right societal wrongs through a series of diabolical tests aimed at teaching others of their sins through extreme mutilation and humiliation, the man doesn't waver in his convictions for a moment. While his apparent masterplan hasn't yet been fully unveiled, it's certainly a work of great strategy, and if you can suspend disbelief enough to accept the boggling quantity of resources, labor and machinery the man has somehow been able to utilize to create his string of deathtraps, it's an eminently worthy quest. Perhaps the character's defining moment comes in the final reveal of the first Saw as he rises from the floor, and the audience realizes what a truly intelligent villain they've been dealing with. It's always better when the bad guy wins... remember that rule, as it'll serve us well later on.

9. Ghostface, in Scream




Now, old Ghostface is certainly an iconic horror movie serial killer, but as with our previous entry there's somewhat of a caveat here, since [spoiler!] he's actually more than one person. Does that break the intangible rules of the list in any way? I'm going with "no", which you could probably have deduced for yourself judging by the fact that, er, he's actually on the list (and yes, I'll be referring to him in the singular). The main antagonist in the original Scream (I'm discounting the sequels since they a) diluted the series and b) were bollocks), Ghosty makes an utterly inspired debut in an extended scene that's still talked about as one of the genre's classics. From the first unnerving call to Drew Barrymore and the spike of suspense provided by the "I want to know who I'm looking at" line, to the life-or-death movie pop quiz to his eventual appearance and slaying of the film's marquee name, rarely has one baddie made such an impact in such a short space of time. The killer's modus operandi within Wes Craven's post-modern storyworld was a breath of fresh air, dispatching sexy young teens (and the Fonz!) with a knowing grin (as if the mask allowed any other kind) and an air of both appreciation and contempt for genre convention. While seemingly weakened in a sense due to never appearing as an indestructible force, as so many horror villains are wont to do, Ghostface was all the more rooted in the real world for the fact that he could be fought off with a quick boot to the happysack, and all the more refreshing a villain for it, making him purely a twisted, real-world killer and not a "force of evil" or anything like that. And of course, the mask allowed for the twist of having the persona inhabited by two people, which may dilute the guy's appeal as an individual killer, but adds to his mystique and capabilities, and cements his place as one of the finest non-supernatural horror murderers.

8. Buffalo Bill, in The Silence of the Lambs




By all rights, Buffalo Bill should be higher in this list, right? After all, he's feature in probably the most critically lauded movie in the list, possesses some of the most memorable tics and quirks (no first-time viewer of The Silence of the Lambs is ever likely to forget his rather striking vagina dance - someone should really bust that out on Dancing with the Stars - or "it rubs the lotion on its skin"), and is certainly extremely brutal with his killings. Unfortunately for him, he's not even the best serial killer in his own movie, let alone in this list, and when you add to that the fact that I was never over-enamored with the film itself, he scrapes in at number eight. Still, it's a respectable showing, and he certainly has his place in cinema history. While not a sympathetic character in any way - sure, we've all fantasized about killing a fattie at some point, but none of us would ever actually go through with it - nevertheless there's a horrible fascination inherent in watching Bill in action, whether in trying to puzzle through what's going through his mind when he's stitching together his woman-cloak, or in the almost visceral thrill of seeing him hunt down Jodie Foster in night-vision goggles, a terrifying climax to a serial killer hunt if ever there was one. While he may be outwitted, and outgunned, by a rookie Fed, there's no denying that his impact is felt throughout the movie and he remains a real cult character. We'll overlook the responsibility for the number of poor attempts at spoofs throughout the years, and instead concentrate on the man's legacy, which is still keenly felt to this day. I'm not going to talk myself into placing Bill any higher in the list though, as there's some even more gross murderers to come. Yay!

7. Leatherface, in The Texas Chainsaw Massacre




Perhaps the most sympathetic of the horrible list of murderers, if indeed someone who wears a dead skin mask [Slayer reference FTW!] and butchers people with a chainsaw can in fact be described as "sympathetic". But, as far as I'm concerned, he's really just a big retarded kid lumbering around, a product of the world's most dysfunctional family more than anything, and while there may be some of you who don't read the film that way, to me it seems that he only kills out of fear and confusion that a bunch of annoying kids have essentially broken into his house. Of course, that doesn't make him any less terrifying or proficient with his butchery, it just means he's in a different psychological headspace to most of this week's other killers and that marks him out as special. It's a far different take on the mind of a killer to consider him as a confused child, even if it's true that most mongoloids don't get armed with chainsaws during playtime at retard school, then it is to consider him a simple sociopath. Still, there are plenty of points gained both for iconic imagery (as I've said in recent weeks, Leatherface remains one of the most superbly visually designed characters of the 1970s) and brutality of kills - the distant sight of the hammer to the skull of the first poor unfortunate to cross his threshold remains as shocking as his impaling a girl on a meathook. While the character may be somewhat disarmed by subsequent additions to the Texas Chainsaw mythos (both the inferior sequels and remakes, and the "origins" comic book), in the original film he remains a scary foe indeed. While Leatherface may or may not dance with the dead in his dreams, he seems pretty comfortable dancing with his chainsaw in the waking world.

6. Norman Bates, in Psycho




Now, before you start thinking to yourself "hang on, Bates is essentially the prototypical contemporary horror/thriller serial killer, twinning a completely twisted mind with murderous instincts and one of cinema's great reveals -why on earth isn't he higher on the list?", just have a think - he doesn't actually do all that much killing, does he? I'll freely admit it's been a long time since I last watched Psycho (and even longer since I watched the notorious Van Sant remake... *shudder*), but I can only remember him actually offing two people in the course of the movie. Compared to the carnage wreaked by some of this week's other misfits, that's positively good behavior, and only barely scraping into our actual definition of "serial killer". Well, alright, one of those kills may well be one of the most famous moments in cinema history, and the fact that we subsequently learn he did the whole murder dressed in drag adds a creepy subtext... perhaps I should cut Stormin' Norman a little slack. He's not moving any higher up, mind. Possessing a mother complex that could provide a lifetime of study for a Freudian scholar, and which supplied The Simpsons with years' worth of running gags at Principal Skinner's expense, Bates is arguably the most mentally disturbed of all this week's nutjobs, embodying both schizophrenia and sociopathy, and it's played off superbly against Anthony Perkins' charm and the slightest hints of something's-not-quite-right. As with so many other great characters, including some on this very list, Bates has to some degree been watered down and reimagined by various sequels and remakes, but the power of the original portrayal remains unadulterated. However, the Bates Motel remains a synonym for a cinematic house of horror, and Bernard Herrmann's legendary violin shrieks mean that old Norman will remain in our minds for some time to come as the greatest black-and-white serial killer of them all.

5. Patrick Bateman, in American Psycho




Even after watching the film several times over, the question remains, was Bateman's murderous spree a hideous reality, or the product of his deranged imagination? It's no less horrendous either way, really, so choose to believe what you will (my own vote swings towards the imagination side of things, but I haven't read the source novel by Bret Easton Ellis, so maybe that offers a different perspective on the macabre tale). Taking a black comedy approach - and I mean, just like Nigel Tufnel, none more black - to the misanthropic and malevolent misadventures of a murderer in the high-powered executive world of 80s investment banking, Bateman's narcissistic lunacy and ambition drive him to commit a string of murders each more despicable than the last, but always with a knowing sideways glance in the mirror. In a way, it's almost like Bateman is the killer you wish you could be, all musical elitism, banging hookers and snorting coke by day, and stabbing tramps and slicing up poseurs by night. I mean, if you were the kind of person who wished you were a serial killer, that is. Ahem. As Bateman's sanity wears thinner and thinner, he's just as unsure where the blurred line between fantasy and reality lies as we are, and it's as entertaining to watch his mind disintegrate as he tries to distinguish the two as it is to watch him deliver a discourse on Huey Lewis whilst preparing to axe someone in the back. For sheer popcorn value and derangement, and for Christian Bale's awesomely manly display of winking at himself in the bedroom mirror as he boffs a slut in the ass, Bateman secures the number five slot. Incidentally, I look forward to the day they film a prequel exploring the origins of Patrick's killing fancy, titled Bateman Begins.

4. John Ryder, in The Hitcher




I must be quick to assert that this is the version of Ryder portrayed by Rutger Hauer in the original film, not by Mr. Bean in the latter day remake that proved such an utter travesty for all concerned. What is it about classic horror movies that prove so ripe for the abusing by Hollywood? I guess that clichéd sentiment is a matter for a different column entirely, so let's instead whizz back to 1986 and remind ourselves of why the original Hitcher was so damn good. Somewhat reminiscent of Spielberg's Duel thanks to its desert highway setting, and just as tense as that suspenseful masterpiece, herein we witness a young C. Thomas Howell finding out that picking up ominous European-looking hitchhikers just isn't a good idea in the movies, as the aforementioned Ryder steps into his car and proceeds to wreak havoc. Ryder is perhaps the closest any of the entrants this week come to breaking the supernatural clause in our killer criteria, as he exhibits a tenacity and apparent indestructibility that gives our young hero considerable cause for concern. However, while Ryder can certainly be said to represent a force of evil or whatever you want to call it, which is what I wanted to stray away from, there's enough grounding in reality, for me at least, to consider him a straightforward human adversary, albeit one who's horrifically persistent in his mind games. Let's face it, you couldn't finish off a true force of evil with a shotgun blast at the denouement of a more straightforward horror movie. Rutger Hauer is a scary man at the best of times, but here he's utterly freaky as the calm, titular hitcher who sees Howell as his ultimate nemesis, and is more than happy to serve up finger pudding in deserted diners and tear girls in half between two trucks. Much like the first Terminator, Ryder can't be bargained with, can't be reasoned with, and apparently doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear... and that's certainly something to fear.

3. Hannibal Lecter, in The Silence of the Lambs




Yes, that's right, only number three. Let's face it, he comes top of most of these sorts of compilations, and it would be pretty boring for you guys if you read the same thing over and over and didn't have anything to debate. Incidentally, this month's 'Empire' magazine has a lengthy and interesting interview with Anthony Hopkins where they rank this as the best performance of his career, despite the fact it lasts little more than quarter of an hour. It's certainly hard to argue with that, as Hopkins' incarnation of Lecter in The Silence of the Lambs trumps every other role in his back catalog. Despite my aforementioned semi-apathy towards the film, it's hard to ignore the brilliance of this portrayal of a chillingly intelligent and well-spoken killer whose only real social shortcoming is his tendency towards eating people's faces. Not exactly the most effective party trick. Most of what we need to know about Hannibal the cannibal is established in the wonderfully disturbing introductory scene where Clarice finds him waiting for her appearance in his cell, and he proceeds to regale her with a by now well-told anecdote about the time he ate some poor chap's internal organs with a few sophisticated culinary accompaniments. Go on, ask anyone sitting next to you if they can do a Hannibal impression, and I guarantee they'll try and pull off a "thththththt" noise while trying to remember what sort of beans he prefers with his light snacks. Thankfully though, there's much more to Lecter than a funny noise, even in this scene, which goes some way to establishing the man as a truly frightening killer, fully at peace with his actions and capable of much more intelligent thought than most anyone here this week. The character himself remains powerful in other Thomas Harris films, too, but none are so vivid as The Silence of the Lambs in showing off Lecter's truly evil side.

2. Scorpio, in Dirty Harry




Forget the wishy-washy portrayal of the infamous Zodiac Killer in David Fincher's recent flick Zodiac - a great film, to be sure, but not really one for those of us who think serial killers aren't quite as memorable when stripped down to a cold, hard procedural - Andy Robinson's take on the man behind the myth is much more cinematic, and fitting for Eastwood's seminal role as law enforcer Harry Callahan. Robinson's Scorpio is a wild-eyed maniac cop-killer utterly devoid of humanity, happy to shoot up random strangers for shits n' giggles and a wee bit of ransom money on the side, not adverse to a spot of rape or burying girls alive now and then, and more than willing to use innocent children as hostages or bulletproof vests. When this man kidnaps a busload of school kids and slaps them silly until they sing nursery rhymes for no reason other than to placate his sick fancies, you actually believe he'd be more than cheerful about slaughtering them one by one if it came to that, which is a far cry from most films where the death of a child is a subject as untouchable as Elliot Ness. When he protests about his injuries at Eastwood's hands to the press, it's so morally bankrupt you can hear the audience booing and hissing, and can't help but cheering when Harry sarcastically informs the chief he's "all broken up over that man's rights". The fact that he has little to no back story, looks about fourteen years old and is as physically intimidating as cotton candy only adds to his monstrousness. The out-and-out evilest mofo in our list by some considerable distance, Scorpio is as menacing as killers get, which is pretty necessary when you're up against a cop as tough-as-nails as Dirty Harry, and that he remains so memorable in a film that introduced the world to one of the great film protagonists is testament to his malice.

1. John Doe, in Seven




Remember what I said earlier? It's always better when the bad guy wins, and few baddies win as utterly convincingly as Kevin Spacey's John Doe in Seven. Although only appearing onscreen for the film's final act, Doe's influence holds the rest of the film utterly in thrall as his bizarre plan unfolds to convince the world of the ugliness of sin and atone on their behalf by exacting an evil vengeance. Although of course, the details of his motives remain open for question. Another factor touched on earlier is that villains are more powerful and more, well, bad when they believe wholeheartedly in their convictions, and Doe's desire to rebalance in the inequity of a world that embraces apathy is as painfully honest as it is twisted in its methodology. The parallels between Doe's motivations and his pursuer Somerset's own opinion of the world make the man's machinations and the head-to-head between the two all the more compelling. There may be some degree of hypocrisy here in allowing Doe's victims as genuine killings but not Jigsaw's, but the difference is that Jigsaw at least allows the chance for redemption, rather than placing his victims in forced suicide situations. Responsible too for one of the movies' great "jump" moments (you know the one I mean), the real reason Doe takes the number one slot is that his plan is both meticulously constructed and proceeds without a hitch, from his first killing right down to his final laugh and fate at the hands of Mills. It's rare that a film allows the baddie that degree of complete victory, and that dramatic convention makes Doe's win all the more powerful, and brings him the coveted top spot.

Now, let's all take a moment to enjoy the film's shocking denouement once more:





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And finally…

Feeling aggrieved or elated at this week's ten picks? Then let me know! The magic of the interweb allows you to post your comments right here on this very page, and if they're especially insightful (or idiotic), I may even respond in the next column. Be sure to tune in next week for another edition of 'Ten Deep', but until then - keep watching the skies.



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Comments (35)

 
I'm pretty sure Kevin Spacey also appears as the "reporter" who tries to come into the crime scene at the defense attorney's office

good list. Batemen should be higher, everyone says Bale sucks as an actor because of his funny Batman voice. Then I tell them to watch American Psycho and they stop with that nonsense.


Posted By: yooo (Guest)  on September 02, 2009 at 11:14 PM

 
 
The correct answer on Michael Myers being supernatural is..."sorta". He's been made invulnerable by numerous sequels, and in the original he was portrayed as a force more than a man. But he's not the same supernatural that Jason or Freddy are, in that he hasn't actually died. Mike likes to blur the line.

Oh, and shame on you for not seeing Behind the Mask, Owain.


Posted By: Joseph Lee (Registered)  on September 02, 2009 at 11:17 PM

 
 
The Punisher has killed a whole lot of people and he has no super powers, not normally anyway. Natural Born Killers should have made the list, good number 1, though.

Posted By: Squid Vicious (Guest)  on September 02, 2009 at 11:56 PM

 
 
So Anton Chigurh in "No Country for Old Men" doesn't even get an honorable mention?? he was the most murderous motherfucker I've seen in movies in YEARS...talk about a calm guy that walks up to anybody and says...hey check this out, and BAM! another iced motherfucker

Posted By: CryptoBiz (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 12:41 AM

 
 
As awesome as Anton Chigurh was, he isn't really a serial killer. Sure he kills a lot of people, but he was mostly about tracking down Llewellyn Moss.

Posted By: Guest#6320 (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 12:56 AM

 
 
i always felt it could be up for arguement that instead of the head in the box it was the baby he may have cut out of her......

Posted By: JP (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 01:36 AM

 
 
There is something funny about how you listed Buffalo Bill, Leatherface and Norman Bates right after each other, considering they are all based off of the same serial killer, Ed Gein

Posted By: MrMe11 (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 01:43 AM

 
 
JP,his wife wasn't far enough along for that to be that viable. If she was in her second to third trimester it would absolutely be possible.

Owain, the biggest difference between a serial killer and a mass murderer is timing. by definition, a mass murder is killing a few people in one burst/event as opposed to serial killers which span longer periods of time.
Best examples would be the Manson Family murders (mass murder) versus the Zodiac Killer (serial killer)
Interesting choice, but I'd switch 2 and 3. Then again, I also freely admit that's just me.


Posted By: Last_Rider (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 02:00 AM

 
 
Great list this week. I personally would have included the Firefly Clan from HO1KC and Devils Rejects. They were brutal, relentless, cared for no one but each other, and killed, well 1000 people...

I also always prefered The Tooth Fairy from Man Hunter over Lecter. Sure Lecter is more iconic, but Tom Noonas performance is just plain creepy.


Posted By: Mario (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 05:33 AM

 
 
Ugh, another laughable article by the writers on this site. Please find some decent ones for crying out loud.

Your top two are sheer laughable. I also struggle to take any list seriously without Michael Myers on it, who is arguably the most influencial and important killer in movie history. Supernatural? No my friend, far from it. In the original Halloween, he wasn't supernatural. What they did after that should be disregarded, simple as that.

Lectar SHOULD be number one if you ask me with Myers and Norman Bates not far behind. Why the hell is American Psycho ahead of Psycho? That's bizarre. Leatherface also needs to make the top five at least, seriously, these type of characters have had more impact and importance on the horror genre than ANY others that you've named. Ugh.


Posted By: SummerTwilight (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 05:36 AM

 
 
YES! Nicely done! I opened this article hoping for a Se7en reference, and I was scrolling down... and saw Silence of the Lambs at #2... and thought it was all over. But you have won me over, sir. Bravo. Now I must ask you...

WHAT'S IN THE BOX???


Posted By: James (Registered) (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 06:41 AM

 
 
"I look forward to the day they film a prequel exploring the origins of Patrick's killing fancy, titled Bateman Begins."


********************************


NO! Bad columnist. Baaad columnist!
[whack on head with rolled-up newspaper]


Posted By: Truth Detector (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 07:09 AM

 
 
I finally saw Dirty Harry recently and have to agree, the Scorpio killer is an ubleivable villian.

I also see many parallels to him and Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Joker. I think fans of the Joker in Dark Knight should check Dirty Harry out. I dont think I am alone in this conclusion.

Interesting list for sure, but some bizarre choices in a few cases...


Posted By: AG Awesome (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 07:20 AM

 
 
Great list this week Owain. I always liked Peter Foley the copycat killer in Copycat - but that might be concept over substance and Richard Thompson in The Bone Collector with an overly complicated revenge plot. Not sure where I'd rank them but I would drop Ghostface, just never clicked with me and unfortunately John Ryder as I haven't seen The Hitcher.

Posted By: mjmoon29 (Registered)  on September 03, 2009 at 08:29 AM

 
 
Damn fine list. Keep these coming, man. Good stuff.

It's a shame this list didn't encompass television, too. There have been some outstanding characters on TV these days (Dexter, Nip/Tuck, etc.)


Posted By: Joe (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 08:36 AM

 
 
No love for Michael Rooker's character in Henry: Portrait of a serial killer. I mean come on it's got 'serial killer' in the title. It's just a crazy flick.

Posted By: Peter (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 08:37 AM

 
 
JP, I think he actually says he took her head, so I don't know how an arguement could be made that it was the baby. Also, the baby at this point would not have been as immediatly recognizable I don't think. I think there would have been a "what the hell is this?" moment followed by a "is this...is this...a two week old fetus?" Also, did Brad know his wife was pregnant in the film? I thought Morgan knew, but not Brad...I might be wrong there.

Posted By: Rage (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 09:51 AM

 
 
**********
Ugh, another laughable article by the writers on this site. Please find some decent ones for crying out loud.
**********

Yet who's the fucking moron that keeps coming back, reading said articles and giving them hits? Oh yeah, that'd be you.


Posted By: Scott B (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 10:54 AM

 
 
Kalifornia is god-awful.

Posted By: Guest#9161 (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 10:57 AM

 
 
Bret Easton Ellis revealed in his novel "Lunar Park" that everything was indeed in Bateman's head.

Posted By: Rant Casey (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 12:36 PM

 
 
I already predicted John Joe would end up on the list before finshing the column. Protypical movie srial killer. My favorite, actually edging out Lecter.

I'd say Henry from portrait of a serial killer would be a sleeper addition to the list, although with the movie itself flying under the radar i can understand its exclusion from the list.


Posted By: Guest#5593 (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 01:22 PM

 
 
No Henry portrait of a serial killer,that's the most realistic film in this genre I've ever seen

Posted By: voodude (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 01:54 PM

 
 
ANTON CHIGURH FFS.

Holy shit how he is not on this list literally ruined the whole thing for me. That being said, I'm a Coen mark so I'm biased. But still, COME ON.


Posted By: Blode (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 02:27 PM

 
 
It seems to me that the murders in American Psycho were a part of Patrick Batemans escalating fantasy as the murders got more and more bizarre towards the end and the final shot focusing on the sign saying "this is not an exit" implies that he will eventually kill for real.

Incidentally in the book by the same author "Rules of Attraction" he has a guest appearance that confirms this. The main character is his brother.


Posted By: dw (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 03:38 PM

 
 
Agreed, AG Awesome. Not to mention Scorpio and Joker have similar plans: Scorpio will kill a certain type of person/people each day if he doesn't get money, the Joker will kill a certain person each day if Batman doesn't unmask himself.

Not to mention they're both slight, wimpy looking guys that the protagonist (Harry, Batman) could beat the shit out of but are somewhat outwitted.

Of course, I'd say The Joker is far more methodical and terrifying than Scorpio, but Scorpio is a damn good villian.


Posted By: Zingy (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 05:09 PM

 
 
No michael myers?

Posted By: Guest#9738 (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 05:25 PM

 
 
At Blode- Anton does kill indiscriminately, but I personally wouldn't think of him as being a serial killer. He's a hitman essentially, who kills whoever is in his way or has something he wants. As another Coen mark, a better suggestion would be Madman Mundt, John Goodman's character from Barton Fink who actually is a serial killer. However, that being said he's hardly a large enough role or focal point of that film to be included on the list. Though the scene where Barton wakes up next to dead body and Mundt takes care of it is pretty macabre.

Posted By: Lucas Huddleston (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 05:43 PM

 
 
Where's Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer!? Come-on people, it's says so right in the name!

Posted By: ??? (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 06:06 PM

 
 
Ugh, another laughable article by the writers on this site. Please find some decent ones for crying out loud.

Your top two are sheer laughable. I also struggle to take any list seriously without Michael Myers on it, who is arguably the most influencial and important killer in movie history. Supernatural? No my friend, far from it. In the original Halloween, he wasn't supernatural. What they did after that should be disregarded, simple as that.

Lectar SHOULD be number one if you ask me with Myers and Norman Bates not far behind. Why the hell is American Psycho ahead of Psycho? That's bizarre. Leatherface also needs to make the top five at least, seriously, these type of characters have had more impact and importance on the horror genre than ANY others that you've named. Ugh.

Posted By: SummerTwilight (Guest) on September 03, 2009 at 05:36 AM

Ugh....shut the fuck up!! This is HIS OPINION!! Get over it!! Just because you see something differently doesn't mean you have to be a smarmy asshole...not to mention that how a character "impacts the horror genre" doesn't really matter since THIS ISN'T ABOUT HORROR MOVIES!! Ass...


Posted By: Erik (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 06:54 PM

 
 
"Bret Easton Ellis revealed in his novel "Lunar Park" that everything was indeed in Bateman's head."

Posted By: Rant Casey (Guest) on September 03, 2009 at 12:36 PM
____________

Not really. If anything, Ellis takes a step away from certainty, stating explicitly what was only alluded to in American Psycho, that Bateman's killing spree may or may NOT have been all in his head. The whole point is that it should always be up to the reader's interpretation.

And if you've only seen the movie and plan to read the book, brace yourself. The book makes the movie look positively PG-13 by comparison in terms of content and graphic detail. If a movie were ever to be made that attempted to match the level of sex and violence in the book (and I know of at least one that I've regrettably seen that's come close), it'd basically be a snuff film.

Good list all around. Partial as I am to Silence of the Lambs, I can't deny Kevin Spacey's presence as John Doe in Seven. It's completely magnetic.


Posted By: BJC (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 06:59 PM

 
 
I think on historical value alone, Norman Bates is your winner. That movie revolutionized horror as we know it. It had a twist at the end that NOBODY saw coming when it premiered!

In my opinion, it's not the number of kills in a movie but the substance of the kills themselves. The shower scene in Psycho is the most iconic scene in the history of horror movies.

I appreciate the list, you gave some very good arguments to support your position. With that said, here is my top 3:
3: John Doe Seven
2: Hannibal Lector - Silence of the Lambs
1: Norman Bates - Psycho.

Just my 2 cents. Great article!


Posted By: AndreFan (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 09:36 PM

 
 
well, he only killed two people so I don't know if he counts as a 'serial killer' but the role did launch Ed Norton's career.... Aaron 'Roy' Stampler in Primal Fear

Posted By: BlackSheepMP (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 09:49 PM

 
 
I think the entire school of thought regarding all of Bateman's killings happening in his head takes a bit away from the satire of the story, at least how I've always interpreted it.

I'm of the opinion that the killings actually DO occur: Bateman gets away with it for one simple reason - he (as well as his peers) are all going for a certain look and style, meaning that you wear this name label and use this name styling product and accessories. So naturally, folks will vouch for Bateman being elsewhere when the murders happened because there are a few dozen or so other fellas that fit his description. The whole thing is supposed to be a rib on the vacuous self-importance of the material age. Of course he'd never be able to get away with it if that really happened - it's a satire, after all.


Posted By: JMAC (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 09:51 PM

 
 
Lucas- If Anton killed merely people who were in his way, why did he kill Carla Jean at the end? She wasn't standing in his way, she had none of the money, and posed no threat to him. On top of that, he was fully prepared to kill the gas station attendant, simply for annoying him. He may have been a hitman, but that's a natural job for a serial killer.

Posted By: Blode (Guest)  on September 03, 2009 at 11:43 PM

 
 
JMAC - Interesting line of thought regarding Bateman. I'm not necessarily sure I completely buy it (blowing up a car with a handgun?) but it's definitely in the argument.

Spacey is chilling as John Doe. It's been said a thousand times but the truly great bad guys are the ones so dead set in their conviction that what they're doing is right; "The Lord works in mysterious ways," Doe says at one point. Even simple things like the neon cross above his modest bed take on added signifigance when you get to "know" the character.


Posted By: neverAcquiesce (Guest)  on September 09, 2009 at 04:07 PM

 


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