411 Fact or Fiction Movies/TV 10.23.09: The Supersized 200th Edition!

Posted by Ben Piper on 10.23.2009

Should the Saw series end already? Is Flashforward the best new show of the year? Is Family Guy greater than South Park? 411's Andy Critchell, Steve Gustafson, and Trevor Snyder debate these and countless other subjects in the supersized 200th edition of 411 Fact or Fiction: Movies/TV!



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Friends, trolls, 411-ites, lend me your ears.

Welcome one and all to the 200th edition of 411 Fact or Fiction: Movies/TV! As always, I am your humble yet moderately attractive moderator/host, Mr. Benjamin Piper.

Wow. 200. Reaching a milestone of this stature is nothing to sneeze at, people. A lot of work has taken place beforehand to enable us to get to this point. As such, I feel the need to recognize and thank those that came before me, in that they all in one time or another held down the job I currently have. So to Scott Rutherford, Tim O'Sullivan, and Matthew Craggs, I salute you all!

I also have to give a shout out to Jeremy Thomas for filling in for me for a month last year. *Guy Nod* in that respect.

And last but not least, mad props have to be given to all the countless staffers that have taken part over the years. The column literally would be nothing without them, so I am indebted to them for their tireless efforts to make me look somewhat competent.

Now with all of that said, it's time to get down to business. And what kind of a milestone column such as this be if I were not to make sure that it is properly SUPER-SIZED for your reading pleasure? As such, this week Andy Critchell, Trevor Snyder and Steve Gustafson are all here to share their thoughts and opinions on anything and everything that I manage to throw their way.



1. You wish that the Saw franchise would end already.

Andy Critchell: Fiction. I have never actually seen any of the Saw movies so it doesn't irk me when a new one comes out every year. It seems to me that as long as they make money there is no reason to stop making them. And besides, a zillion sequels is almost as much a tradition in horror movies as fake blood. After all, they made like a hundred Jason and Freddy movies.

Steve Gustafson: Fact. To me Saw was cool to talk about BEFORE I actually saw it the first time. After I saw it I was like, "Eh." It tried too hard to be "that" movie. Ooh! Let's see how far we can PUSH the line! It's become a caricature of itself at this point. And just because they've made a zillion Jason and Freddy movies doesn't mean it was a good idea. The only group of people I see still excited about this is that weird group who hangs out in front of Hot Topic at the mall.

Trevor Snyder: Fiction. I enjoy the Saw series, at least as whole. I was pretty disappointed in the third film, but thought the fourth made up for it. I thought the fifth was the worst of the series, so am now hoping the sixth will do the same. The way I figure it is, I'm already this far into the series, and it's not like it puts me out to go spend 90 minutes seeing a new one each year. So as long as they keep making them, I'll probably keep seeing them. And besides, I actually think there is something of value to the series. It's not the greatest horror series ever - far from it. But there's something to be said for a series that puts as much thought into connecting all the films together as Saw does, especially in a genre often known for questionable continuity.

Score: 0 for 1 (A.C.- S.G.: 0 for 1, A.C.- T.S.: 1 for 1, S.G.-T.S.; 0 for 1)


2. You're interested in checking out USA Network's new show White Collar.

Andy Critchell: Fact. USA has a pretty good track record when it comes to their shows as Monk, Psych, and Burn Notice are all very solid. I like the premise too and having a rogue as the main character is usually pretty fun. Plus it has Jonesy from Carnivale on it! I'm definitely giving this show a chance.

Steve Gustafson: Fact. A show about the unlikely partnership between a con artist and an FBI agent who have been playing cat and mouse for years? Sign me up! I'm always game for new shows and give them a chance before making a judgment call. I'm feeling the premise and hopefully this catches on if it can live up to it. Man, USA is starting to get a good rep with all these solid shows in the loop.

Trevor Snyder: Fact. Sure. USA has a pretty good track record with shows, and I enjoyed Matthew Bomer's work on both Chuck and the unfortunately short-lived Traveler. Plus, the premise seems fairly strong for a weekly series. Yeah, I'll definitely give it a shot.

Score: 1 for 2 (A.C.-S.G.; 1 for 2, A.C.-T.S.: 2 for 2, S.G.-T.S.; 1 for 2)

3. Chris Pine is a fine choice to take over the role of Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan character.

Andy Critchell: Fact. I know that it smacks a bit like stunt casting but Pine showed what kind of acting chops he has in Star Trek and let's be honest here, Jack Ryan is nowhere near as iconic as James T. Kirk. I think Pine will bring the role a little bit closer to the way Alec Baldwin played it which I am completely in favor of.

Steve Gustafson: Fact. Jack Ryan has been played by Alec Baldwin, Harrison Ford, and Ben Affleck. While they each brought something to the table, audiences aren't married to any one of their interpretations. Yet. Now, am I saying Pine is going to be THE one? Nah. But I'm all for giving him a shot and seeing what kind of figure he cuts on the screen. Plus, Andy has it right. Jack Ryan is no James T. Kirk. He'll be fine.

Trevor Snyder: Fact. I really like this casting choice, in fact. Jack Ryan is not as iconic of an action character as James Bond, but I've always thought the series had great potential. Chris Pine might be just the right guy to take it to the new level, if the charisma and star-power he showed off in Star Trek is any indication. After that movie, I'm all for any action series that puts Pine front and center.

Score: 2 for 3 (A.C-S.G.; 2 for 3, A.C.-T.S.; 3 for 3, S.G.-T.S.; 2 for 3)

Switch!!!



4. Cirque du Freak: The Vampire's Apprentice will be good cheesy fun.

Trevor Snyder: Fact Well, actually, the wording of this one bothers me a little, because I don't necessarily feel it will just be "cheesy" fun. I've read the first few books of the Cirque du Freak series, and it's pretty darn good. In many ways, it's a perfect guy antidote to Twilight. I like what I've seen of the film (John C. Reilly as Crepsley is a great choice), and Paul Weitz is a talented director. I don't think it's gonna set the world on fire, but I think it will be pretty enjoyable.

Andy Critchell: Fiction. I find that I am pretty open minded when it comes to "cheesy" movies but from the commercials I've seen this movie does nothing for me. Maybe it's because I haven't read the books like Trevor has but I doubt most of the movie going public has either and at this point I have no idea what the movie is trying to be. Is it a kid's movie? Is it a teen movie? It is a movie for vampire fans? I just don't know but nothing I have seen so far says anything to me but "stupid."

Steve Gustafson: Fiction. I remember flipping through this book when I managed a bookstore. It wasn't my thing then and it's not my thing now. But to each his own. When it comes to the movie, nothing about this seems appealing to me. I have to call out the Hot Topic group again. This one is for them. And Trevor. No offense. Of course I can't rip into a movie BEFORE I even see it, but knowing Hollywood the way I do, this is a book property that was snagged by a studio to find the NEXT Twilight. Or the NEXT Harry Potter. If this does well expect a flood of these types of books to hit the theater to fight for that dollar.

Score: 2 for 4 (T.S.-A.C.; 3 for 4, T.S.-S.G; 2 for 4, A.C.-S.G; 3 for 4)

5. Flashforward is the best new show of the fall TV season.

Trevor Snyder:Fact In the spirit of full disclosure, I should admit that Flashforward is one of only two new shows I'm watching. But of those two (the other being Community). Flashforward is better. So as far as I know, it's the best new show of the season. That might be unfair of me to concretely say, but there it is.

Andy Critchell: Fiction. Gotta disagree with Trevor here, Flashforward is a fine show with good acting and an interesting storyline. Plus, as a big Lost fan, I like the whole paranormal mystery premise. That being said, for me it just seems the show is missing something and I just can't seem to get into it. On the other hand, Community has grabbed me right out of the gate. The characters are all great exaggerations of different stereotypes and it is funny as hell. It is not overly long, it is smart and witty, and the acting on the show is really good.

Steve Gustafson: Fiction. Best new show? I can't just throw that on one show just yet. Not with V and Modern Family sitting out there. What about Community? Glee? Sorry. It's a great show but I'm withholding my pick. For now. Ask me in another Fact of Fiction! Still, I will give it coolest crossover moment with the Lost ties. That was awesome.

Score: 2 for 5 (T.S.-A.C.; 3 for 5, T.S.-S.G.; 2 for 5, A.C.-S.G.; 4 for 5)

6. Independence Day 2 should not be made if Will Smith isn't starring in it.

Trevor Snyder:Fiction To tell the truth, I don't really care if a sequel is ever made. I'm no big fan of the first film, and I think the time for a relevent sequel has come and gone. That being said, if they do want to make one, I don't think Smith's absence need be an obstacle. Yeah, it might disappoint some fans of the first, but I'm sure if they get another big star fighting aliens with a lot of big explosions, it will be fine. I don't really think Independence Day was such a hit because of the strength of the characters.

Andy Critchell: Fact. From a purely business standpoint Will Smith needs to be in any kind of ID4 sequel. The man is one of the few truly bankable stars in Hollywood and ID4 is the movie most associated with that reputation. Any kind of sequel without Smith would have an uphill battle trying to distinguish itself without him. And if it is anything like the first one, it will be laden with a lot of expensive visual effects and it will need Smith's drawing power if the studio has any hope of recouping those up front costs.

Steve Gustafson: Fiction. Who are we to put limits on the sequel? They could go 50 years into the future and helm this film with Tom Hanks as a scientist called to action when the aliens return with reinforcements. Or start the movie right after the last one with Chris Tucker as one of the pilots. What about putting Shia LaBeouf as the lead, 100 years in the future, leading a MECH attack on the aliens home world; taking the fight to THEM! See what happens when you take the binders off? You open a world of possibilities. Now, I'm not saying GOOD possibilities, but options, none the less. Will Smith would be fun, but I'm not pinning my hopes on him whether I see this movie sequel or not.

Score: 2 for 6 (T.S.-A.C.; 3 for 6, T.S-S.G.; 3 for 6, A.C.-S.G: 4 for 6)

Switch!!!



7. Monty Python and their collective works still remain relevant and hugely influential due to the fact that their stuff still holds up several decades after it was initially produced.

Steve Gustafson: Fact. "And now for something completely different." Relevant? Absolutely. Hugely influential? Without question. Even people who "don't get it" agree that Monty Python stands out as innovators in the field. Look, I'll be the first to admit that I don't always "get" British comedy. But I try. The stuff I do get is brilliant, so maybe there's hope for me yet. But the Monty Python guys had a way to speak across boundaries. You could put Flying Circus on today and it's still more advanced than 99% of the stuff out there. Their movies? Forgetaboutit. Quotable and great to watch over and over. 10 years from now...25 years...50 years, it doesn't matter. Monty Python will still have a legion of fans, followers, and imitators.

Trevor Snyder: Fact. Oh, I don't think there's any doubt on this one. The material definitely holds up today. Heck, just the other day a friend and I were just talking about our favorite bits from Holy Grail and cracking up. Comedians are still always pointing to Python as a huge influence on their work. And whenever a new sketch comedy show debuts, it doesn't take very long for people to start comparing it to Python. Not that anything ever will compare.

Andy Critchell: Fiction. Monty Python has NEVER been funny and only appeals to nerds in their basements. Sorry, but it's true. I have never understood what the appeal was for these dudes so whether or not they are relevant or influential, it doesn't matter because they suck.

(Editor: Et tu, Andy.)

Score:2 for 7 (S.G-T.S.; 4 for 7, S.G.-A.C.; 4 for 7, T.S.-A.C.; 3 for 7)

8. You're happy that Chuck may be returning earlier than previously scheduled as it may very well result in more episodes being produced.

Steve Gustafson: Fact. But a soft Fact. I always get wary of a show when fans have to campaign to save it. Usually the writers have to resort to cheap tricks to garner attention and I'm concerned this season we are going to start seeing that on Chuck. I don't want to spoil anything, but I've been keeping tabs on what to expect, and I'm a little nervous in where they are taking it, especially when it threatens to shift the balance of the show. And if it does make the show a little wonky, do I really want more episodes? Let's say I'm cautiously optimistic on this one.

Trevor Snyder: Fact. If only because I like Chuck, so I'm happy to get to see new episodes sooner. I don't really expect it to have any effect on Chuck's chances of survival, which I think are slimmer than ever now. I'm also not 100% sure how I feel about this upcoming season - last season's finale actually felt like an appropriate ending, and everything I've heard about what's to come has me a little worried that the show is just going to start annoyingly repeat itself. But, still, I guess I'm glad to see it earlier. Now I can find out if it is wrecked faster.

Andy Critchell: Fact. Chuck is a great little show but unfortunately doesn't have much of audience. It has potential to be a "cult" favorite and more episodes will certainly be a good thing for those cult fans. I bet fans of Firefly wish there would have been more episodes. Same with fans of Twin Peaks.

Score: 3 for 8 (S.G.-T.S.; 5 for 8, S.G.-A.C.; 5 for 8, T.S.-A.C.; 4 for 8)

9. Family Guy > South Park.

Steve Gustafson: Fiction. HOLD ON! HOLD ON! HOLD ON! By me saying false does not make the opposite true, you heathens! It just means I don't believe Family Guy is greater than South Park! I look at them equally! Oh, shush, shush, shush. Is it a cop out answer? Of course it is. I enjoy both shows for similar reasons and I wouldn't be able to pick one over the other. Now, I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not, but it is OK to like more than one animated show. Just like it's OK to like both WWE AND UFC. Just like it's OK to like both Transformers 2 AND...wait a minute, that's just crazy. No one can like Transformers 2. Anyways, back to the question. While both programs show their age, both hold a steady quality that holds up well over time. Bravo to living in a time where we can debate adult cartoons without scorn!

Trevor Snyder: Fiction. Well, I'm perfectly willing to draw the fire of Family Guy fans, so here goes - Family Guy isn't even in the same league as South Park. I recognize it has its fans, and it may get off a good gag here and there. But that's all it is...a collection of hit and miss gags (as so memorably pointed out, in fact, by the South Park two-parter which mocked it). South Park is one of the sharpest satires on TV right now. To compare it to the easy pop-culture riffing humor of Family Guy is almost insulting.

Andy Critchell: Fact. South Park had it's time but let's face facts, it's not 1999 anymore. Even if it wasn't funnier, Family Guy has a wider audience, more cultural relevance, and more influence. When was the last time you heard some random person talking about the episode of South Park from last night? You hear people talk about Family Guy all the time! South Park is for effete snobs that think cartoons are anything more than a bunch of clever sight gags that can't be achieved by real actors. Go watch some anime you weirdos.

Score: 3 for 9 (S.G-T.S.; 6 for 9, S.G.-A.C.; 5 for 9, T.S.-A.C.; 4 for 9)

10. Marge Simpson "posing" for Playboy is a very lame publicity stunt that won't benefit either the show or the publication in either the short or long term.

Steve Gustafson: Fiction. It's Fiction just because of the use of "short term" when talking about benefits. Because it gets both the show and the magazine short term buzz, probably more than both have had in a while. People who normally didn't pay attention to The Simpsons or never read Playboy are...curious. "What does a cartoon look like nude?" I guess they never Googled that infamous X-Men video some years back, huh? Long term success? Too early to tell. If sales are solid, who will be next? Lois Griffin? Turanga Leela? Cartman's mom?

Trevor Snyder: Fact. Sure, some people might buy this issue of Playboy just to get the Marge cover and pictures, but that doesn't mean they're gonna buy the next issue. And I definitely don't think it benefits the show any. It's not like there's somebody out there who hadn't heard of The Simpsons until seeing the issue. At the same time, I can't imagine anyone who never planned on watching the show suddenly changing their mind just because they saw Marge's nipples. I just don't think this is gonna be a big deal for either entity, and will most likely be completely forgotten about in just a few weeks time.

Andy Critchell: Fact. Playboy's influence started eroding in the 90s and today it is just another star f***er mag that can't compete with Maxim. Playboy is a joke with a limp dicked octogenarian as the punchline. They're as obsolete as the daily newspaper and about as successful too.

Final Score: 3 for 10 (S.G.-T.S.; 6 for 10, S.G.-A.C.; 5 for 10, T.S.-A.C.; 5 for 10)

Bonus Non Fact or Fiction Question: What is your favorite horror movie of all-time?

Steve Gustafson: I sound like a broken record, but outside a couple movies here and there, it's been years and years since I've enjoyed a horror film. One that I can watch over and over...The Shining. Stanley Kubrick's directing genius is laid for all to see. Jack Nicholson's acting talent attacks you as his madness becomes obvious. The novelist and newly appointed hotel manager who goes mad spending a long winter cooped up in the creepy Overlook Hotel; It's horror, suspense, and unflinching in presentation. So many visuals to mention. The twins, the woman in the bathtub, The blood spilling from the elevators...But The Shining has someone that puts it over the top of other classic selections. Who is that person? You guessed it. Scatman Crothers.

Trevor Snyder - George Romero's Night of the Living Dead is not only my favorite horror movie, it's my favorite movie, period. It's a very important movie to me, in that I saw it as a kid and it completely scared the crap out of me, but at the same time also created the horror obsession that has more-or-less defined my movie fandom for my whole life. I certainly wouldn't be doing something like the 411 October Zombie-Thon if not for Night of the Living Dead, that's for sure. At this point in my life, I couldn't count how many times I've watched, nor would I want to count how many time I will watch it still in the future. To me, it is just the perfect movie.

Andy Critchell: Can I say none? No? Uh, well, OK. I guess I'll say Candyman because you got to see Virginia Madsen's naughty bits. Oh doctor!

_____________________________________________

And there you have it, a little something for everyone. I have to thank Andy, Steve, and Trevor for their efforts. I think this came out pretty good and the fact that we got it done by deadline is a bit mind-boggling considering all the email exchanges that went on between them and I. So thanks again to the three of them. And of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't thank you, the 411 faithful that come back each and every week for this little endeavor.

Come back next week and we'll do it again, only in the regular and less stressful format.
-BP

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