411 Fact or Fiction Movies/TV 10.06.09: Week 202

Posted by Ben Piper on 11.06.2009

Will The Men That Stare At Goats be a comic gem? Will The Fourth Kind be an effective and disturbing thriller? Are people willing to get behind a Mad Max movie if Mel Gibson isn't starring? 411's Shawn S. Lealos and Owain J. Brimfield debate these and other topics in week 202 of 411 Fact or Fiction: Movies/TV!



Why, hello there! Welcome back yet again to Fact or Fiction. This week we have a battle of the middle initials, as Shawn S. Lealos and Owain J. Brimfield both step into the fray. Let's see what they have to say for themselves…



1. The Men That Stare At Goats shall prove to be an overlooked at the box office comic gem.

Owain J. Brimfield: Fact. Despite the obvious pedigree, this film comes across as something that will be too quirky to gain real mainstream success at the box office, despite the fact that along with The Fourth Kind it's currently being plugged in seemingly every single ad break on my TV. Maybe the fact that the UK TV trailer seems to give away very little about it save the fact that it stars George Clooney is relevant. I'm not normally a fan of this overtly offbeat comedies, but I'm aware that my own personal preferences in this case don't mean the film isn't likely to be good, because I think it is. If that twisted logic makes any sense. Anyway, there's a definitely a market for this sort of thing, but I don't think that market will be catapulting to this to anything approaching box office success - I think it'll do reasonably well and nothing more, and reviewers will get irritated at this fact while praising the film's comic merits.

Shawn S. Lealos: Fact. I agree with Owain that this movie is too quirky for mainstream audiences. To give you an idea of this movies appeal to normal people, my wife has asked me if this is the new Coen brothers' movie I was telling her about. It will be a bigger hit than normal Coen comic films and might track more like Burn After Reading, which made $60 million in the U.S. box office. That actually is pretty good for this size of movie but isn't what you might expect from a George Clooney movie. I think the movie will be closer to the totals of Fargo ($49 million) and The Big Lebowski ($39 million) but end up being a big DVD seller over the next few years if reviews are positive. But it is going to be KILLED going up against A Christmas Carol and New Moon two weeks later. That is a shame because George Clooney looks hilarious and Jeff Bridges is in full-on Dude mode.

Score: 1 for 1

2. You don't mind that Mad Max 4: Fury Road is now pressing forward without Mel Gibson in the role of the iconic titular character that first brought him to prominence.

Owain J. Brimfield: Fiction. Which is odd, considering I watched Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome last night and wondered why this franchise has any life left in it at all. But of course, I was soon brought to my senses by finally buying The Road Warrior on DVD, one of the greatest action/SF movies of all time, and a huge step up from its still-decent predecessor. While Gibson is undoubtedly identified with Max Rockatansky, I don't think the character is sufficiently complex or iconic that another actor's interpretation couldn't work. My issue, though, is whether it needs to be done at all; I'm never a fan of recasting actors for roles, but while my practical head recognises that it's a necessary evil sometimes (eg. Don Cheadle replacing Terrance Howard in Iron Man 2), when it comes to reviving a franchise that has been dormant for several decades, is it really worth it? If Gibson's not available/interested, why not rework the script a little bit and make it a post-apocalyptic action/SF movies that just happens to pay homage to the series, rather than try and cash in on the name value for little reward? Of course, I understand that creative integrity isn't really something that factors too highly in this industry, so maybe I'm being too idealistic.

Shawn S. Lealos: Fiction Fact. Mad Max is Mel Gibson and with anyone else involved, it really isn't a Mad Max movie. Now, I am not completely against the idea of a new Mad Max film because George Miller is doing it and that means that even without Mel Gibson, the franchise still retains its creator. I mean, look how well it worked out when George Lucas came back to Star Wars! Ok, bad example, but you can also look at how Steven Spielberg's latest Indiana Jones movie ended up when he brought back the series' star. I have just talked myself out of my original answer, so I am changing it to Fact. A Mad Max movie is supposed to be about Mad Max Rockatansky and playing that role is possible Tom Hardy, who played Handsome Bob in RocknRolla and he looks the part. If he can pull off the part, more power to him. As long as George Miller is in control, I don't have a problem with it.

Score: 1 for 2

3. While The Box has an intriguing premise, you can't help but feel that everything will fly apart at the seams during the third act.

Owain J. Brimfield: Fiction. Then again, I say this as someone who thought Southland Tales was an interesting and worthwhile motion picture, so maybe I'm not the best person to trust with opinions on Richard Kelly's output. Yes, The Box has an undeniably compelling hook, and for all those who say it's reminiscent of a Twilight Zone episode, I'd treat that as a compliment rather than a derogatory remark. But why the pessimism? Sure, there's bound to be a twist, and judging from what I hear it's a twist that's already been made public in some circles, but that doesn't necessarily mean everything is going to fly off the rails like, say, Knowing or The Village. Kelly's gone 1 for 2 with his big directorial releases thus far, so I don't think that's a reason to be unduly pessimistic. I'm intrigued by the movie and will definitely be catching it at some point, and I'd rather go in expecting a decent time at the movies than 2/3 of a good movie and 1/3 of a bad movie. And let's not forget, Kelly has also given us the reassurance that pimps don't commit suicide, which has to be cause for good expectations, right?

Shawn S. Lealos: Fiction. This is just my gut talking. I am a HUGE fan of Donnie Darko and want Richard Kelly to wow me again. This is my most anticipated movie of November and I want it to be good. I know the twist at the end and it makes me roll my eyes a bit but it makes the movie a morality tale and I don't mind an off the wall twist if the story leading to it is good enough. Since I know what happens in the third act, I can say a lot of people won't like the twist but, as a complete story, it is still intriguing to me.

Score: 2 for 3

Switch!!!



4. The Fourth Kind will prove to be an effective and disturbing thriller.

Shawn S. Lealos: Fiction. I can't get into this movie and, unlike most people, it has nothing to do with Paranormal Activity. I have not seen Paranormal because I was burned a decade ago with all the hype surrounding Blair Witch, a movie I hate with all my being. Paranormal looks just as boring as Blair Witch was so I don't plan on getting burned again. Now, The Fourth Kind is getting a lot of hype based on its supposed true story (that is highly disputed by the locals of the area) and I am still not sold. Movies that rely on fake documentary footage and "live cameras" rarely ever work (District 9 is a rare exception) and this just looks boring, not what you want from a "thriller".

Owain J. Brimfield: Fiction. Much like Shawn I just can't get excited about this. It may have something to do with the fact that the rushed TV spots that are currently being rammed down my throat every advert break do very little to give an idea of what this is supposed to be about, with only the subject matter itself seemingly having any clarity. While unlike Shawn I'm not inherently against the sort of film that this and Paranormal Activity seem to be (I say "seem" since I've seen neither, this is just my impression based on the marketing), in a month that sees several cinematic releases that have me genuinely intrigued (2012 and The Box in particular, for what it's worth), The Fourth Kind really hasn't done anything to kick down my door and grab my attention. I imagine it will be a serviceable and mildly scary movie, but certainly nothing more.

Score: 3 for 4

5. The assembled cast for Thor thus far as well as the director that is attached has you greatly anticipating the movie.

Shawn S. Lealos: Fact. I am kind of bummed the rumored signing of Robert DeNiro and Jude Law being debunked but damn if they didn't up the ante with the signing of Anthony Hopkins as Odin, the All-Father. I don't know enough about Chris Hemsworth to judge his signing on as Thor but Dominic Cooper and Stellan Skarsgård's involvement are awesome as well. I know nothing about Tom Hiddleston but look at his IMDB picture and tell me his face isn't the perfect shape for Loki. With all this said, the biggest thing that will make or break Thor is the director and I think Kenneth Branagh is the perfect choice. Unlike Marvel's other rock 'n' roll heroes, Thor is a Shakespearian story and Branagh is a master of that art form (Henry V, Much Ado About Nothing, Hamlet). Forget the cast for a minute and realize this movie has the perfect director for the subject matter. The Marvel family of movies is the franchise I am most excited about and Thor is a step towards The Avengers, meaning I am very much anticipating it.

Owain J. Brimfield: Fact. I'm not sure about "greatly", but I'm definitely looking forward to this so it would silly to quibble over semantics. I have next to no knowledge of the Thor comic books and my interest in The Avengers is derived almost entirely from the films leading up to it thus far, both of which have been highly entertaining. The various personages taking roles in Thor make it look like quite an eclectic action movie (and I'm excited in particular to see Anthony Hopkins take on his role), but the real selling point for me is Kenneth Branagh in the director's chair. This is a man that knows the medium inside out, and I'm very interested indeed to see what he can do with source material that's seemingly a world away from his comfort zone. Hopefully, as seems to be the intention, he'll deliver a big-screen Thor that's both spectacular and intelligent and continues to build on Marvel's cinematic successes.

Score: 4 for 5

6. You don't think that the motion capture Christmas Carol starring Jim Carrey will be nothing to lose sleep over if you never see it.

Shawn S. Lealos: Fact. I think this movie is going to be a fantastic film and is going to be something all the kids will love. I think it will be brilliantly made and look groundbreaking. However, I am not a fan of mo-cap because it kind of disorientates me. I will never say that makes it a bad format because my personal taste is just that, personal. This movie has the chance to be great, I just don't plan on seeing it.

Owain J. Brimfield: Fiction. I think. It took me like ten minutes to work out that double negative, Ben. The way this question is worded basically means that a "Fiction" answer means I'm not fussed about seeing it. I think. Anyway, that's the case, because while it does look like the film will be a leap forward for Robert Zemeckis' pioneering motion capture technology, which does have some potentially exciting implications for future films utilising this method of moviemaking, the story itself has been done to death to the extent that I'd be happy never seeing another intepretation of Scrooge on the big screen again. For all that this will be a vehicle for Jim Carrey's mugging, which I do have a soft spot for, it'll also be little more than a retread aimed squarely at the young 'uns, and I have little interest in that, although good luck to it by all means. Besides, everyone knows that Blackadder's Christmas Carol was the definitive version of the tale, right?

Score: 4 for 6

Bonus: Non Fact or Fiction Question: What is your favorite movie franchise?

Shawn S. Lealos: Batman. I was looking at various franchises that I love, from Terminator to Star Wars to Lethal Weapon and I realized that none of them match up to my love for the Bat. Let's start with my childhood when I sat in front of the TV and watched in anticipation for the second part on the same Bat Channel at the same Bat Time! I fell in love with Batman. I remember seeing the movie as a child where Batman and Robin fought The Joker, Riddler and Cat Woman. My favorite TV show was made into a cool movie! I read comics all through my childhood and, although I am a Marvel guy, I still followed Batman as one of my few DC titles I collected. Then I grew up and in 1989 I was away at college and went to the movies, only to be blown away as Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholson were Batman and the Joker. They followed that with one of the best superhero movies ever made at the time in Batman Returns. I even liked the excess of Batman Forever and still think Val Kilmer made a good Batman. Batman and Robin was too cheesy and it killed my favorite franchise, which sucked. Then Christopher Nolan was hired, brought in Christian Bale, and the franchise rose from the dead. Funny thing is, when I saw American Psycho, I said Bale would be the perfect Bruce Wayne. I was right. Finally, The Dark Knight is the greatest superhero movie ever made, hands down. From my childhood love of the Adam West Batman series, through my comic collecting years, to Michael Keaton's Batman starting my love affair with movies to Christopher Nolan resurrecting the franchise, Batman is an easy choice for me.

Owain J. Brimfield: Although I'm tempted to plump for something like Wayne's World or Die Hard just to make this seem a little less obvious, I can't really justify picking anything other than Star Wars to fill this answer. While I'm not the fanboy I used to be (although I still own around seventy of the "expanded universe" novels and a couple of signed pics of Greedo, amongst other paraphernalia), and while the prequel trilogy didn't set my world alight like it really should have done, the love I have for the original trilogy is enough to eclipse that. The Empire Strikes Back is the first film I can really remember loving, and Return of the Jedi remains my favourite film of all time (not what I think is the best film, but my favourite film). Star Wars shaped my developing years in an undeniable fashion and for that reason there's really no other answer to give here.

_________________________________________

And there you have it, Shawn and Owain agree more often than not.

Apologies to Owain for the awkwardly worded final argument by the way.

Check back next week for more thrilling Fact or Fiction action.
-BP

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