Alternate Takes 08.07.10 - Batman
Posted by Shawn S. Lealos on 08.07.2010
From the greatness of Jack Nicholson's Joker to Michael Keaton as the Caped Crusader and Kim Basinger's Vicki Vale, 411's Shawn Lealos takes a look at Tim Burton's 1989 version of Batman!
Welcome to Week 115 of Alternate Takes, my name is Shawn S. Lealos and you have entered my world.
BATMAN
Director: Tim Burton
Writer: Scott Hamm and Warren Skaaren
Stars: Michael Keaton, Jack Nicholson, Kim Basinger
By 1989, most people who thought of Batman recalled the campy television show. Word bubbles with "KA-POW" and "BAM" meant more to the individual than the true gothic nature of the hero. Batman lived in Gotham City but there was nothing in the Adam West and Burt Ward television series screaming gothic.
Michael Uslan taught one of the first accredited university courses based on comic books. DC Comics called him to discuss how they could market their property to a new generation and the collaboration began on what would eventually be the Batman movie. Uslan said his one stipulation was the campiness had to go and the darkness of the comic books play front and center.
Enter Tim Burton.
Tim Burton was one of a new generation of Hollywood filmmakers. His previous films, Beetlejuice, Pee Wee's Big Adventure and Frankenweenie showed a director who thought outside the box. That helped as he sat down to direct the first major studio comic book adaptation since Superman.
Comic book fans at the time witnessed the revitalized Batman with critically acclaimed stories like A Death in the Family and Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns. While Burton never approached the dark realms those comics maintained, he still morphed Batman into something proving the superhero could be a successful movie property.
I loved Batman when I watched it in theaters in 1989. It was my favorite movie for a long time.
Revisiting the movie 20 years later, I still find a dark, intriguing movie but it is nowhere near as good as I remember.
Batman is an origin story. It is not an origin of the hero though, but an extended origin story of his greatest nemesis, the Joker. The script plays fast and loose with both characters' origins. In this movie, the Joker is the man who killed Batman's parents when he was a young boy. From the look of actor Michael Keaton as Bruce Wayne, the Joker is around 50 years old at the time of this movie.
This is a comic book movie, so it is best to suspend belief.
While Jack Nicholson is magnificent as the Joker, he seems molded on Cesar Romero's portrayal from the classic TV show. The movie also does little to make the world of Batman a serious, dark world. Instead, director Tim Burton infused it with the trademark gothic atmosphere permeating throughout his film catalogue.
It is important to remember that, at the time, his look was unique and new. There was no "Tim Burton" trademark look in the movie world. At the time, it was groundbreaking but also comic. The world of this movie was not dark and violent like the producers talked about. It was comically gothic and deadly. There is a difference.
This movie's sets are about as realistic as Dick Tracy's sets.
My biggest problems with the movie are the actions of Batman. The character in the comic books, even the dark, gothic tales of Frank Miller, is not a killer. He will beat his enemies to an inch of their lives but Batman does not kill. That is not true in this movie.
One scene bothers me more than any other.
Batman remotely sends the bat mobile into the Joker's warehouse. It stops amidst a group of heavies and then drops a bomb, which explodes and apparently kills everyone in the building. Not only is it murder but also cowardly and unforgivable. Batman proves he does not care about human life or a fair fight by blindly killing a number of bad guys. This is not true to the character of Batman.
The one thing I always hated about the Batman movies was the fact they felt it necessary for Batman to kill all his enemies.
Michael Keaton remains many fans' favorite actor to play Batman. He does his best to carry off the role but he feels wrong in this movie. He plays Bruce Wayne as worse than aloof. He seems clueless at times and always needs to be pointed in the right direction, usually by Alfred. He is never the great detective this comic book character should be portrayed as.
There are also problems with the soundtrack (Prince? Really?) and the love interest character in the movie (Vicki Vale? Seriously?). However, the casting of Michael Gough and Pat Hingle, as Alfred and Commissioner Gordon respectively, is perfect.
Batman is a gothic comic book movie that showed the world a new side to the superhero genre. The character of Batman is violent and disturbing. He is dark fighting in the shadows without an ally in the world. Tim Burton did a fine job in painting the world of Batman and set the franchise up for a bright future.
Batman Begins proved to be a better origin story and The Dark Knight features a more compelling Joker but neither discredit this movie. This is not the best Batman movie ever made but it is better than almost any comic book movie produced in its era, outside of Superman.
It just fails at making Batman a loyal adaptation of the comic book character it was based on.
Thumbs Up: Jack Nicholson is perfect as the Joker. Ignore the origin changes and watch him play the character. He looks like he is having the time of his life and he makes the Joker the most interesting character in the movie. That is a problem running through the first four Batman movies, but in the case of Jack Nicholson, it is worth it.
Thumbs Down: Batman is not a killer. The fact he has a machine gun attached to his bat-copter is wrong on so many levels. The scene where he mercilessly kills all the henchman with a bomb is cowardly and un-heroic. That is not a Batman trait. IMDb states 56 people died in the movie.
Who Was That Masked Man?
* Billy Dee Williams (Harvey Dent) also played Lando Calrissian in the original Star Wars trilogy.
* Michael Gough (Alfred) was the voice of the Dodo Bird in Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland.
* Jack Palance (Carl Grissom) played Curly in City Slickers.
* Robert Wuhl (Alexander Knox) starred in the HBO television series Arli$$.
It could have been worse: According to the documentary on the DVD, they at one point were considering Bill Murray as Batman and Eddie Murphy as Robin.
Quotes to Live By
The Joker: Tell me something, my friend. You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight? Bruce Wayne: What? The Joker: I always ask that of all my prey. I just... like the sound of it.
Vicki Vale: A lot of people think you're as dangerous as the Joker. Batman: He's psychotic. Vicki Vale: Some people say the same thing about you. Batman: What people? Vicki Vale: Well, I mean, let's face it. You're not exactly normal, are you? Batman: It's not exactly a normal world, is it?
Comic Book Grade: C: The movie is a fun ride but this is not really how Batman from the comics is supposed to look. The superhero kills too many people. The origin of Batman is changed, making The Joker guilty of something his character never did. Also, I feel killing The Joker at the end of the film was the wrong decision because Batman's greatest villain should always be kept around. No one after The Joker ever seemed as dangerous.
What They Said: "The Gotham City created in "Batman" is one of the most distinctive and atmospheric places I've seen in the movies. It's a shame something more memorable doesn't happen there." - Roger Ebert
August 13, 2010 - Scott Pilgrim vs. the World: Check out the trailer on the movie's official website
October, 22, 2010 - Red
2010 - Dead of Night (completed, no U.S. release date yet)
2010 - Tamara Drewe - Released at Cannes 2010
January 14, 2011 - The Green Hornet
March 04, 2011 - Priest
May 06, 2011 - Thor
June 03, 2011 - X-Men: First Class
June 17, 2011 - Green Lantern
July 22, 2011 - The First Avenger: Captain America
July 29, 2011 - Cowboys and Aliens
December 23, 2011 - The Adventures of Tintin: The Secret of the Unicorn
May 4, 2012 - The Avengers
July 03, 2012 - Spider-Man 4
July 20, 2012 - Untitled Batman project
Batman 89 is a 10/10. Keaton was the best modern Batman by a mile.
Posted By: Jim (Guest) on August 06, 2010 at 11:15 PM
My personal thoughts
Keaton was a great Batman which is why I remember him from the 89 Batman film. One thing I loved was that Keaton's Batman was very quiet and mysterious, like how Batman should be.
Nickleson was a good Joker. To be honest I didn't care much for his Joker when I first saw it as a kid, but now I think he's good.
Clooney can fuck off
Bale is a good Bruce Wayne. He pulls off the playboy look better. Even if Bale was in the late 80s early 90s I think he would be the better Wayne. However as batman, I think he's good in Beyond, WAY to cartoony in TDK
Posted By: Guest#0104 (Guest) on August 06, 2010 at 11:26 PM
"It could have been worse: According to the documentary on the DVD, they at one point were considering Bill Murray as Batman and Eddie Murphy as Robin."
That would have reeked of win.
Posted By: Ronnie LaFianza (Registered) on August 06, 2010 at 11:38 PM
I hated this movie. I could never get over Batman killing people. That's like having Spiderman being a rapist.
Posted By: Guest#4733 (Guest) on August 06, 2010 at 11:51 PM
Thumbs Down: Batman is not a killer.
i gotta call a massive bullshit on this one. whilst it is often forgotten, Batman killed villians fairly frequently early in his history in Detective Comics.
So much so that he even had a shoulder holster.
Batman, at the time, would only kill as last result, but he did kill.
in the context of this movie, it absolutely makes sense for him to have had to kill. when you are looking at the potential of millions of innocents dead, or dozens of villians, the choise if obvious.
i know that most people only understand the post adam west batman mentality, but the real batman from the pre-1960's would have killed a hundred to save a million.
Posted By: Darth Mortis (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 01:02 AM
I believe the writers were Sam Hamm and Wesley Strick. Din't check, but I'm sure of it.
Posted By: Steve (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 01:31 AM
Nothing compares to TDK of course and although Batman Returns is my favorite, i'd have to say that Val Kilmer was the best Batman so far, i say that because he was good for both sides of the role (Bruce Wayne/Batman). All the others have always tried to hard to be the Batman with the deep/horsey voice but not Kilmer, it just seemed so natural and not... directed.
Posted By: MystrynigmA (Registered) on August 07, 2010 at 01:57 AM
I think everyone is thinking in terms of Batman begins and the Dark Knight.
In 89 the only batman most people knew was Adam West and that was anything but loyal to the comic (Loved it though) and the batman from superfriends
This was the FIRST movie to take the character seriously and Keaton did a very very good job as others have mentioned. He played confused as part of the Bruce Wayne character - it was how he played the man to try and show he couldn't possibly be batman.
Without this movie we would not have Batman Begins or The Dark Knight - this movie mad a killing and because it started the franchise THIS is the reason we all got to bask in the glow that was Heath Ledger as the Joker.
Does the movie hold up well 20 years later - It is and OK Movie now - the special effects are dated and after Heath Ledger it's hard to go back to Jack's portrayal.
Keaton is still good and a young hot Kim Basinger is always good. I'd have to go back and look but I do NOT remember him actually killing anyone in that movie. The Joker did ALL of the killing in that movie.
Posted By: natdog (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 02:16 AM
Prince, really? Prince was an extremely hot artist @ the time. His music is only used in bits, and the parts they are used are classic (the dinner date scene? awesome.) Were you born in like 1990? I agree it's not as good as I remembered as a kid (5, btw) but the "murder" scene is a throwaway action explosion sequence. Definitely a better film portayal of batman of anything until Batman Begins.
Posted By: Prince (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 02:28 AM
Dude, that wasn't a "bat-copter."
IT WAS THE MOTHERFUCKIN' BATWIIING
Posted By: Meirsch (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 02:40 AM
I hated this movie. I could never get over Batman killing people. That's like having Spiderman being a rapist.
Posted By: Guest#4733 (Guest) on August 06, 2010 at 11:51 PM
I'd have picked The Flash for that comment but Spidey works too.
Posted By: Guest#6822 (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 03:05 AM
That one thing missing from Batman look was always the fact he wasn't killing the bad guys. He would always round em up, catch them then put them in Arkham and just wait for them to bust out. Sort of pointless and not fitting the all "scary" look.
Posted By: slurper (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 06:46 AM
Its funny because while I hate the shit out of Returns, I have a place in my heart for Batman 89. It just looks so cool. And I think thats what the Batman 89 and the BB/TDK argument comes down too. Keaton behaves like you would want Batman to behave. While Bale behaves like Batman would need to behave. Its a split between the dramatic and the essential.
Personally I prefer the Nolanverse but I wouldn't say its definately better.
Posted By: caboose (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 08:03 AM
I never like Micheal Keaton as Batman. I still think that after all these years, Hollywood still hasn't found the "right" actor to play the Caped Crusader, although Christian Bale is the best one to play it so far.
Posted By: billy (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 08:57 AM
Keaton played the best Batman, and Kilmer played the best Wayne. Jack as the Joker will always be my favorite, and I think it's unfair to compare him and Ledger's version of the joker.
Posted By: Dogpound7382 (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 10:43 AM
nobody else found Batman Begins boring?
Posted By: cbizzle (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 10:46 AM
Fuck Nicholson as The Joker.
Posted By: Juan Tanamera (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 11:42 AM
Whilst this film could be considered a mixed bag, i still think the positives still outweigh the negatives. I love it.
For one thing it's so quotable. Every scene with the Joker is just classic. His surgery scene- "The Mirror!"-, his commercial, when he dances to Partyman in the art gallery are all just brilliant.
Plus there's Keaton as Batman, the amazing gothic scenery and the fantastic score by Danny Elfman. I believe that it's a classic, and without it, we wouldn't have had Batman Begins or The Dark Knight.
Posted By: JACKANAPES (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 12:01 PM
Never rub another mans rhubarb!!
Posted By: The Joker (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 12:06 PM
Shawn--
Thank you for such a thoughtful article on Batman 89. I have to say I agree with you on everything about it. It was one of my favorite movies for such a long time, too, and it ignited my love for the character (which is alive and well more than ever today). I cannot tell you how many times I watched it back when I was in the fifth grade. In the years to follow, I would watch the opening credits alone time and time again; from the wonderfully Wagnerian(and iconic) score by Danny Elfman to the awesome reveal of the Bat Emblem engraved in stone.....the whole thing was perfect for my obsessive appetites.
Anyway, yeah, I think the film is of major importance to the history of superhero films, as it opened the doors for the rest that have followed right through to today. Batman 89, like the comic book titles released during its time, was instrumental in changing how so many people(myself included!) had perceived the character and his world. Watching it now, I, like you, realise it is not nearly as good as I once thought it to be.
The movie is slow and plodding at times, and what I once thought was the perfect embodiment of Gotham came across as a little more "comic booky" than I would have liked...also, while I used to think the Joker's goons looked so cool and badass with their fedoras and black jackets, they now come across as something not entirely unlike the 60s tv show, just a few notches darker. And those Joker emblems on their jackets and the helicopter? Yeah, more comic booky and cartoonish than I had thought years ago when I was younger and far more impressionable. But yes, Burton and production designer Anton Furst's vision of Gotham CIty was groundbreaking and visionary at the time, no question about it. Nolan's gritty realism is what I prefer; in fact, I think my ideal cinematic depiction of Gotham would lay somewhere between Burton's landscape dark fantasia and Nolan's realistic world, but I digress.....
Nicholson's Joker will always have a special place in my heart, and he is by far the most compelling thing in the film. But now, the late Heath Ledger, has, without question, captured that flag; good luck to the next guy who dares claim it as his own. Keaton as Batman underplays the role very effectively; his is clearly my favorite next to Christian Bale....Batman as a killer in these films is not his fault, but the fault of the writers. And no, his Bruce Wayne, doesn't quite feel "right." There is no "Public Playboy Persona" to be found.....aloof and brooding is fine, but not by itself, IMO.
Just to add to your comments about Gordon....there wasn't nearly enough of him! But I'm sure you know that; no fault of Pat Hingle's.
I'm running out of space here, and I have tons more to say. Oh well. Thanks again, man!
Posted By: Daniel (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 12:28 PM
The only thing I'll give you here (aside from the universally-loathed and completely unnecessary Joker-killed-Bruce's-parents thing) is the killing bad guys thing (which had an even worse scene with the bomb strapped to the baddie in Returns). But the rest is just so, so wrong, and really comes across like a fanboy that will never be happy unless a film sticks 100% to the comic. I mean, the setting was perfect for the story they were trying to tell, Keaton was beyond perfect as a billionaire you believe would have use his exceptional wealth to armor himself because he IS NOT built to be a fighter, and Prince's "Partyman" and "Trust" help make the scenes they're featured in. Twenty-one years later this is still my favorite comic book flick.
Posted By: neverAcquiesce (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 12:35 PM
"Were you born in like 1990? I agree it's not as good as I remembered as a kid (5, btw) but the "murder" scene is a throwaway action explosion sequence. Definitely a better film portayal of batman of anything until Batman Begins. - Posted By: Prince (Guest)"
Nope. I was born in 1970. As for Prince, even at the time, when I was 19 years old, "Batdance" made me want to punch babies.
And I like old school Prince.
Posted By: Shawn S Lealos (Registered) on August 07, 2010 at 01:22 PM
" Batman is not a killer."
WRONG!!!!
Posted By: Guest#9131 (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 05:25 PM
That is actually one of the things Schumacher did right...he put back the "one rule" of Batman's in place. And yes I know about the early Detective Comics, but that was outnumbered easily in years by the no-kill era.
The 1989 film wasn't the BEST Batman movie, but it was the most important. As it led to the style that would drive TAS and the Nolanverse (with the detour in Schumacherville)
Bale is prb. the best live action Batman just because his source material is the closest to the original source. He just needs to TONE DOWN THE DAMN VOICE. He can do it in the third movie and make a half-veiled comment about it, like the one about turning his head in the new Batsuit.
Posted By: Guest#6967 (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 05:54 PM
"Batman 89 is a 10/10. Keaton was the best modern Batman by a mile."
O RLY?
Posted By: Kevin Conroy (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 05:54 PM
Did you really say that Keaton's Batman was "never the great detective this comic book character should be portrayed as."? Really? In this movie Bruce ("Alfred, let's go shopping.") single handedly cracks Joker's poison pandemic and gives all his research findings to Vicki Vale to print in the paper and save Gotham City. What, just because we didn't see the literal process of him researching this shit, like Bale's pointless machine-gun-firing-into-brick experiment, he's not a great detective? I love The Dark Knight, don't get me wrong, but come on.
As others have pointed out, this movie was stylistically going for a "timeless" feeling, with Gotham feeling very 1940's, but everyone having modern technology. As such, it's a throwback to the original Batman comics from the 40's, where Batman did in fact kill. Just because Batman killing people has been retconned don't let that confuse you as to what source material it follows.
Posted By: Alfred (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 08:20 PM
Yes, those sets and props were so cartoonish in this movie about a guy dressed up in bat garb fighting a crime boss clown. How dare they be so unrealistic.
I can't wait to read your Dark Knight review praising it for it's realism, while the BATPOD stares you in the face.
Posted By: Cactus (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 08:23 PM
Keaton's Batman is superbly underplayed and literally scares the shit out of you with just his glance. The fact that he wasn't afraid to kill dudes and hang 'em by the throat only made him more menacingly cool. He's like Travis Bickle donned in black leather.
Nolan's movies are written better, but I'll always go back to Burton's for their gothic, brooding atmospheres.
Posted By: J (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 09:21 PM
I was 9 when I saw this. Having only the Adam West adaptation to go by, and not being a huge comic fan, I think this was more than acceptable. You have to remember Shawn's points about it actually being the first Batman movie to take the "legacy" seriously. I really think they could have picked someone better for Wayne/Batman, simply because Keaton will ALWAYS be "BeetleJuice" to me.
Posted By: JaYsInMaGuS (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 10:35 PM
Just a question...are you fricking insane...Keaton's Batman is by far the better Batman,this undeserved praise for Batman Begins/The Dark Knight is ridiculous these movies are okay, nothing more,and the constant Heath Ledger praise is even more ridiculous for his pathetic version of the Joker who was nothing more than wallpaper on the screen. The insistence that his portrayal is beyond reproach is ludicrous all because the sad case of human being offed himself.Bale's Batman is 3rd best,with Kilmer's portrayl being 2nd(a decent Batman/better Bruce Wayne despite the movie around him sucking ass)
The uproar over Keaton's original casting by fanboys the world over was totally unfounded and the man deserves props for the outstanding job he did.
Posted By: guest666 (Guest) on August 08, 2010 at 01:30 AM
I thought when he blew the wharehouse, it was to destroy the products the Joker was distributing. Didn't really think of the death angle. Good article.
Posted By: John (Guest) on August 08, 2010 at 02:44 AM
Batman killing is wrong!?
What about in batman begins where he F*CKING BLOWS up an entire training facility killing doezens of henchmen!?
Or in TDK where he drops harvey off a building?!
Posted By: eh, Steve!_v2 (Guest) on August 08, 2010 at 03:11 AM
The killing bothered me also. Yes yes yes, I know that when the character was created he killed. However that has stopped bye the time of Robin's creation back in '42. Ever since then he has been totally adverse to killing. It is ingraned into the basic core of the character. Hell Superman pointed out that while most most people thing Batman is about revenge, when you strip it all away you have a man who doesn't want to people to die.
Oh the person who said
Batman killing is wrong!?
What about in batman begins where he F*CKING BLOWS up an entire training facility killing doezens of henchmen!?
Or in TDK where he drops harvey off a building?!
Posted By: eh, Steve!_v2 (Guest)
You over look a couple ot things. Harvey fell a couple of stories. that is survivable. And as for the Blowing up the mountain camp, remember, that was an accident. The hot poker was knocked out of his hand and caused the fire and explosions. it was NOT an attempt to kill
Posted By: ult (Guest) on August 08, 2010 at 09:44 AM
*sigh* When this column started I thought it had a lot of potential to be the only comic book related article on this site. But I forgot who was writing it. Sorry Lealos but the way you take your opinion and try to pass it off as fact has gotten too annoying for me to read this column anymore.
Posted By: Guest#1754 (Guest) on August 08, 2010 at 10:27 AM
@ult...and the first might be a moot point, if a rumor I saw a while ago is true...
Posted By: Guest#0009 (Guest) on August 08, 2010 at 01:38 PM
Just a question...are you fricking insane...Keaton's Batman is by far the better Batman,this undeserved praise for Batman Begins/The Dark Knight is ridiculous these movies are okay, nothing more,and the constant Heath Ledger praise is even more ridiculous for his pathetic version of the Joker who was nothing more than wallpaper on the screen. The insistence that his portrayal is beyond reproach is ludicrous all because the sad case of human being offed himself.Bale's Batman is 3rd best,with Kilmer's portrayl being 2nd(a decent Batman/better Bruce Wayne despite the movie around him sucking ass)
The uproar over Keaton's original casting by fanboys the world over was totally unfounded and the man deserves props for the outstanding job he did.
Posted By: guest666 (Guest) on August 08, 2010 at 01:30 AM
You do realize there was a ton of talk about Ledger's performance BEFORE his death right?
Posted By: chAd_b (Guest) on August 08, 2010 at 06:15 PM
This was Jack's movie from beginning to end, he was fantastic. "You are a vicious bastard.... I'm glad you're dead!"
Michael was boring as Batman and comatose as Bruce Wayne. Kim Basinger was wallpaper.
Special mention for Jack Palance who was awesome in a small role.
Posted By: Oh! Lymping Hero (Guest) on August 08, 2010 at 08:33 PM
nobody else found Batman Begins boring?
Posted By: cbizzle (Guest) on August 07, 2010 at 10:46 AM
I did. And Bruce Wayne shouldn't have a lisp lol. Keaton is the best Bruce Wayne.
Posted By: Guest#6441 (Guest) on August 08, 2010 at 10:10 PM
Aside from Batman Begins, Batman was never the most compelling person in his movies. He was in that one because the villains sucked aside from Liam Neeson in his great role. I just don't get where this hate is coming from for the older movies. Especially the original movie. I look forward to reading the reviews of the other three from the 90s, if this one got a C then the others will probably get a F.
Posted By: JM (Guest) on August 08, 2010 at 11:37 PM
Without this movie there'd be no "Timm-o-verse" (not Batman: the Animated Series, no Superman: the Animated Series & no Justice Leage). Worst of all-- we never would have heard the BEST Joker ever: Mark Hammill
Posted By: Guest#8430 (Guest) on August 09, 2010 at 09:25 AM
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