Alternate Takes 06.11.11 - Bob Layton Interview
Posted by Shawn S. Lealos on 06.11.2011
Spider-Man and Cable lock up as the first-ever Superhero Knockoff begins! Plus Wolverine takes on War Machine, and both Batman are in action! Plus an interview with former Iron Man writer Bob Layton and more!
Welcome to Week 158 of Alternate Takes, my name is Shawn S. Lealos and you have entered my world.
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Last week, I shared some great interviews from Comicpalooza but I wanted to save the biggest one for this week. I spoke with comic book legend Bob Layton and Michael Olmos, the son and business partner of Battlestar Galactica actor Edward James Olmos at the convention. The two men, joined by Edward, announced a new project they are taking part in called Mettle.
Layton is writing the script for the movie for Michael to produce and Edward to star in. Mettle is a superhero movie and Edward James Olmos is the hero. The plot takes us back to Vietnam where Olmos' character is experimented on and given super powers. Time passes and he eventually accepts his role as a superhero in the world until one day he is severely injured and loses his powers.
He then suffers from post traumatic stress disorder. At the press conference announcing the movie, Layton mentioned that superheroes get beat up all the time but never show the pain and the effects this beating must have on their psyches. This movie will deal with that pain and suffering. However, don't think it is all about dramatic tension as one of the bad guys return and the hero has to find a way to overcome. They promise an explosive finale.
I caught up with Layton and Michael later in the day and we had a nice long talk about Layton's comic career (he co-scripted the Iron Man Demon in a Bottle' storyline) and their Hollywood aspirations.
Shawn Lealos Let's start with your early stuff. I read you when I was growing up. You took on Iron Man and Iron Man was on hard times.
Bob Layton It was being cancelled actually and that was the only way I got my hands on it.
Shawn Lealos Did they give you free rein on a struggling title? Did you go in with the belief that you were the man to revive this character?
Bob Layton What it was, was David Michelinie and I jumped ship from DC and went over to Marvel because we saw the writing on the wall that DC was about to cut back on stuff and we weren't top tier guys. We went in and interviewed at Marvel as a team because we were a team at DC. They gave us the option. They had some books that were on the verge of being cancelled. I think Ghost Rider was one of them but when they got to Iron Man I was like, yeah, we'll do Iron Man!
David and I went out for dinner afterwards and I told him everything about Iron Man. He had never read the comic so I told him everything I knew about the character and everything that was wrong with it. And Dave came in with a totally fresh approach. He wasn't like a hardcore Iron Man fan but he looked at it logically. He said we definitely needed to do something with it so we overhauled the entire series. We kind of did a reboot.
Shawn Lealos You mentioned in the announcement today about Mettle that it was about a person and what they go through in stressful times. You did that with Iron Man in the "Demon in a Bottle" storyline by humanizing Tony Stark in more than just a superhero way. Did you ever believe that story would be as big as it did?
Bob Layton It's one of the Top 20 stories of all time according to various people. We just felt it was another story. We wanted to change the heart attack of the month club because we didn't know anyone who had 17 heart attacks and lived Dick Cheney maybe so we wanted to give him personal weaknesses. Dave looked at it from the business and corporation world. We started with the spy and corporate intrigue and that was one of the directions we were going in and it seemed like things that plagued businessmen were excess in playboy businessmen. It was a clear extension. When we ran it by the powers that be, they just said don't do it badly.' That was our villain of the month and we moved on. No one sets out to change or make history, you can't. To us, it seemed like we had carte blanche to do whatever we wanted and that is what we wanted to do. It made sense to us.
Shawn Lealos When Rhodey put on the armor was that on your run?
Bob Layton No. We created Rhodey but someone else put him in the armor. Which, I was always against by the way. Every time you have more than one Iron Man, it loses the uniqueness of Iron Man.
Shawn Lealos At the time they put him in the armor, it was because Tony was going through the alcohol problems
Bob Layton But the trouble is, you can't put that Genie back in the bottle. We tried to do that because when we took over, we had Rhodey have a huge accident and swore he'd never put the armor on again, so we wouldn't have two Iron Men running around.
Shawn Lealos But it happened anyway.
Bob Layton Exactly. Look at the Iron Man 2 movie. It dilutes the uniqueness by having Rhodey running around as War Machine. Plus you have all those robots and everything. Every time you do that, it diminishes your lead character. I'm not a big fan of that.
Shawn Lealos They say Shane Black is taking the movie back into the espionage side of things. Maybe bring back some classic bad guys like The Ghost.
Bob Layton The Ghost is the villain I want them to use.
Shawn Lealos I remember when you resurrected Jean Grey and started X-Factor. You took something from the start of the X-franchise and made it fresh again.
Bob Layton I was a fan of the original X-Men and I'm not a big fan of the new X-Men because I like the old guys. They were all around and no one was doing anything with them, not even in the X-Men books. That's why I pitched the idea of putting the original band back together. The trouble with that was it turned out to be a political nightmare. The people who are in charge of the X-Men books is a very closed clique and I was not in their circle. I was the only guy who was not part of that clique who was writing an X-Men book.
Shawn Lealos That was the time of Chris Claremont.
Bob Layton Yeah, it was Claremont and Bob Harris was the editor, stuff like that. It was a nightmare. It was always like Bob can't do this and Bob can't do that because we're doing this' and blah, blah, blah. I had come off my run of Iron Man having the time of my life and then there was this thing which was like pulling teeth. For me, it was a political nightmare so after five issues, I moved on.
Shawn Lealos I wanted to ask you about your Hollywood projects, including The Helix, but now we have Mettle.
Bob Layton The thing with Helix is we are still working on it. It is a pet project, a passion project, but it is not the type of movie people will give us $20 million for. It's very risky. We've got a really good script but Mettle kind of trumps it right now so we are putting it on the back burner and will concentrate on Mettle because we've got a firm date on that. Plus, if Mettle ends up being a huge success, for us it will be so much easier to make Helix. People will ask what else do you got and we'll be ready to go.
Shawn Lealos It seems like these days a lot of the more interesting comic book adaptations are the ones that take place in real world situations. I don't want to say Watchmen is real-world because it takes place in a dystopian society but it contains real problems. Even Kick-Ass, which
Bob Layton Have you seen Super?
Shawn Lealos I haven't but I have wanted to catch it.
Bob Layton I loved it. It's like Kick-Ass, but more believable. I really loved Super and you have got to see it.
Shawn Lealos What does the budget look like for Mettle?
Bob Layton We're not too worried about the budget.
Michael Olmos I didn't get a chance to say this at the panel earlier but a girl asked about casting. The answer to that is if you have a great story and great script, great actors will gravitate towards it. We all gravitate towards great scripts. It's really hard to find a great script.
Bob Layton Believe it or not, there is not that many floating around out there.
Michael Olmos I think if we do this story right, the way we are planning it, money and actors will come. In reference to what you said about Bob and comparing "Demon in a Bottle" to Mettle, that is really one of the things that attracted me to the story. It grounds it.
Bob Layton It's a different motivation, a different issue that he is dealing with than Tony Stark but it is still that same human element. The thing about film that I can't do in comics is I can really explore a character in depth. In comics, I have 22 pages. You have to bang-bang' and get the hell out of Dodge. In this case, when you have an actor of Ed's quality, it is like, as a writer, I can do all the things I can never do in a comic.
Shawn Lealos Did you think of Edward James Olmos specifically when writing the dialogue?
Bob Layton Absolutely. We get to play it to his strengths. It we play it right, Ed will have like five lines of dialogue in the first half of the movie. But, he is going to emote so much. I want him to be one of those characters who is so withdrawn that the story has to draw who he is out so you find out who he is as he rediscovers himself. In the first 20 or 30 minutes, he will have three lines of dialogue.
Shawn Lealos How do you market a movie like this? Lots of movies come out like Super and no one knows how to market it.
Bob Layton Those are parodies. The problem with Kick-Ass is it looked like a comedy and something for kids but it was excessively violent and foul. The studios didn't know what to do. This one does not have any confused genre identity.
Shawn Lealos It's more of a drama?
Bob Layton Yes, it is a drama where the superpowers are part of the dressing of the drama. It is not about a super dude although, I've got to tell you, he does some pretty cool stuff. The ending, especially.
Michael Olmos That is the thing. It is not a parody and it does deliver for the younger audience, especially in the flashbacks, some amazing action sequences. There are two really big ones with something you have never seen before.
Bob Layton I want to do a superhero movie my mom will watch because she cares about the characters. My mom hates superhero stuff. She hates science fiction. But, she loved Iron Man, not because I had anything to do with it but because she related to Tony Stark and his crisis of conscious. So much of that movie was not about the armor but about that guy. She liked Spider-Man for the same reason because it was a love story. My mom actually watched that, I couldn't believe it. Movie goers are not comic fans so they don't care about the trappings like we do. If it's going to be that type of movie, they want character.
Shawn Lealos I take my wife to see a movie I grew up reading comics in the 70s and 80s my wife doesn't know anything about them. But there is a lot she likes, like Thor. What made Thor really good was Tom Hiddleson's portrayal of Loki.
Bob Layton What do you remember most about Die Hard?
Michael Olmos Hans.
Bob Layton Hans Gruber, exactly. You have to have a credible villain.
Michael Olmos But also, with Thor, you have that personal story the father and his two sons. It was a family, it was Shakespeare. We connect to that story because we all have siblings and we all have parents. My dad always talks about the story and positioning the audience into the story. They have to have something to lock onto in the story. Then they can go along for the ride and you can do whatever amazing things you feel like.
Shawn Lealos How hard was it to move from writing comic books to writing scripts?
Bob Layton It was liberating because in comics I am limited to 150 words a page for 22 pages. That's not a lot of words. When I sat down to write the first draft of The Helix, I was like oh my God, I can go anywhere, I can talk about anything.' I've got 110 pages to do whatever the hell I want! There is a diatribe in there between the pilot and the doctor about why Star Wars sucks and I went on for six pages. Michael was like dude, you don't have to review each movie.'
Michael Olmos I was like, two-and-a-half pages.
Bob Layton I went into this diatribe arguing why Jedi's are pussies and found an interesting way to do it in two pages.
Michael Olmos It is a sequence where they have to maneuver the ship and it is really dangerous. So, it releases the tension because they are having this bloody argument about Star Wars while they are manning their stations.
Bob Layton You know, I wrote six pages of it and it was really funny but we had to cut it down. But it is still liberating to write for the screen because I can do all that stuff. The other side is, I can't get into their heads like I can in comics. In comics, I just give them a thought balloon. I can't have a guy in movies just start talking to himself. But it is liberating. I am used to writing quickly because of the monthly grind and I'm used to writing very, very compactly. Most of my scripts, I can draft them up in about three weeks for a whole movie. He's like what?' It takes most guys six months. I'm used to working at a steady pace once I sit down to do it. I wrote another movie called Poseidon 2.0, I wrote it in like three weeks. I didn't leave the house or do anything. I wrote it at a compact 90 pages. He says it's the best thing I've ever wrote.
Michael Olmos It's almost like we're building up to Mettle.
Bob Layton I wan't your dad to read it because I am proud of it.
Michael Olmos Oh, he's going to read it. He's intrigued at the premise.
Bob Layton Basically, a computer reaches self awareness like Skynet but instead of trying to kill us, it tries to save us and changes the world for the better. It starts curing cancer and starts taking care of all the nuclear power plants so within a year, everything is great. So, all the heads of the major corporations get together and want to find the guy who originally created this program because they want to kill it. The trouble with deities is they are all socialists. It is bad for business so they want to kill God.
Shawn Lealos Wow.
Bob Layton Yeah, but it's funny too. It's got an ecological theme and, at the same time, it is all character driven and how these characters redeem themselves as the story moves forward. Also, there is not a single fight scene in the whole movie. I think it is the first time I have ever written anything that didn't have a fight scene.
For week one of the Superhero Knockout, we are getting the number one seeds out of the way early. Just a reminder for those who missed last week's column, this is a 64 character tournament, set up like the NCAA college basketball tournament with four brackets, each character ranked from 1-16 in each bracket. I mixed up the characters regardless of company, so there are DC, Marvel and other company characters facing off throughout the tournament so, hopefully, the best character will end up winning.
YOU will vote for the winner in the comment section below. I will tally the votes and each week will count down the winners and move them on to the next round. REMEMBER: THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHO CAN BEAT WHO. THIS IS ABOUT WHO YOU LIKE BETTER AS A COMIC BOOK CHARACTER. IT'S NOT ABOUT WHO IS TOUGHEST BUT ABOUT WHO IS THE COOLEST, THE BEST AND THE MOST ICONIC. Also, it is only protagonists in this tournament. If you guys give me enough participation, we might do one over bad guys after this.
NO. 1 SUPERMAN vs. NO. 16 BOOSTER GOLD
Superman. There are not many more iconic superheroes than Superman. While many people discount Superman's importance due to his reputation as the Big Blue Boy Scout. The hero broke onto the scene in 1938 and is inarguably a Christ figure, sent to Earth by his father to live among the humans and eventually be their savior. However, his goody-goody attitude is no reason to dislike the man. The world needs true heroes and he is the perfect one.
Booster Gold. Yeah, Superman is the perfect hero and Booster Gold is the complete opposite. Booster Gold was born in the 25th century and threw away a promising future by betting on his own football games. As a security guard at the Space Museum, he stole some superhero gadgets and used Rip Hunter's time machine to travel to the 20th Century where he staged heroic events based on things he knew was going to happen to become a hero and, therefore, become rich selling himself as a celebrity. Over time, Booster Gold became a real hero and was one of the coolest antiheroes of his era.
NO. 1 SPIDER-MAN vs. NO. 16 CABLE
Spider-Man. What can you say about Spider-Man. He remained one of the most popular superheroes ever created because, instead of being a millionaire playboy or super soldier, he was a normal teenager blessed (or cursed) with super powers and great responsibility. The story of Peter Parker is almost as great as that of Spider-Man and together, they formed one of the greatest heroes of all time.
Cable. The mutant known as Cable has a very strange history. He is Nathan Summers, the son of Cyclops and Madelyne Pryor. He was born in our present time but then sent to the future and raised there. As an adult, he first appeared in the pages of New Mutants #87, created by Louise Simonson and Rob Liefeld. Cable became the leader of the New Mutants and instantly became one of the most popular new heroes, a soldier and a bad ass in a comics world where that ruled the day. Some of his best stories included a partnership with Deadpool.
NO. 1 WOLVERINE vs. NO. 16 WAR MACHINE
Wolverine. If only one X-Men is named a Number 1 seed, it has to be Wolverine. There is not a member of the team who is more popular than Logan and he is arguably one of the most popular heroes in the entire Marvel universe. The problem is that not everyone knows how to write Wolverine. Logan is not a source of humor and he is barely a team player. More than anything, and this is just my opinion, he is not an Avenger-type of character. Wolverine is simply a bad-ass killing machine. Check out his Japan stories to see how Wolverine should be displayed as.
War Machine. I almost moved War Machine up in my rankings based solely on his recent stories during The Siege storylines. He is a bad ass now and is getting cooler by the moment. However, there is also something about him that I can't get over being a second rate Iron Man. Yeah, he's got the guns and the attitude but he is an off-shoot of Iron Man and that is a hard thing to overcome. But, damn, he is getting cooler as years go by.
NO. 1 BATMAN vs. NO. 16 BLUE BEETLE
Batman. One of the superheroes to beat is Batman. Most of the Marvel guys I know say they are Marvel fans but also love Batman. He is the one perfect cross over hero, a vigilante who bypasses the "God-like" status of other DC heroes (Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman) and is a normal guy who forces himself to become a hero. Between the long running comic series and his successful movies, there might not be a more recognizable figure in comics than the Bat.
Blue Beetle. I feel kind of bad about putting Booster Gold and his partner The Blue Beetle both up against Number 1 seeds, but that is how it ended up. There have been three Blue Beetles and I am listing the character here, regardless of who portrayed him. Mainly, I'm looking at Ted Kord and Jaime Reyes as the main characters with the scarab. Ted Kord is the Beetle that I loved, a second string JLA member who remained entertaining, especially in his teaming with Booster Gold. Jaime's storyline is fun but I really miss Ted.
June 17, 2011 - Green Lantern
July 22, 2011 - The First Avenger: Captain America
July 29, 2011 - Cowboys and Aliens
August 19, 2011 - Conan the Barbarian
September 27, 2011 - Batman: Year One
December 1, 2011 - Dredd
December 28, 2011 - The Adventures of Tintin: The Secret of the Unicorn
February 17, 2012 - Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance
May 4, 2012 - The Avengers
May 25, 2012 - Men in Black III
July 03, 2012 - The Amazing Spider-Man
July 20, 2012 - The Dark Knight Rises
December, 2012 - Superman: Man of Steel