411 Movies Interview: Saw 4 Director Darren Lynn Bousman
Posted by Tony Farinella on 10.22.2007
411's Tony Farinella sits down with the director of Saw 4!
Darren Lynn Bousman, the director of Saw 2, Saw 3, and Saw 4, is one busy guy. When I interviewed him in January, he was on his way to Germany to promote Saw 3. And when I caught up with Darren this Friday to interview him, he was getting ready for Spike TV's Scream Awards. Needless to say, there's never a dull moment in Darren's life. In our new interview, Darren and I discussed the Saw 3 Director's Cut DVD, Saw 4, piracy, the Internet, Repo, Paris Hilton, and a whole lot more. So, if you're getting ready for Saw weekend, I have two suggestions for you: First, I suggest you buy the Saw 3 Director's Cut DVD to prepare for Saw 4. Second, I suggest you check out Saw 4 on October 26th, 2007 in theaters. There you go! You're all set.
TONY: When I interviewed you in January, you told me how Saw 3 was originally three hours and a Braveheart type film. Will we ever see that three-hour cut of Saw 3?
Darren Lynn Bousman: Well, you know, just because it's three hours, that doesn't make it good. (laughs) We released the Director's Cut, which, I think, I put back in nine or ten minutes or something like that of the footage. There are tons of extended scenes that are interesting to me and maybe interesting to the actors that were in them, but I don't know if a fan is even going to find them interesting. So, I wouldn't hold your breath right away on that one. Maybe in fifteen years on the Special Edition.
TONY: It seems like the MPAA is allowing hardcore horror films to be out there with an R rating, and they have lightened up in some ways. That said, do you ever want to release a straight-up NC-17 horror film?
Darren Lynn Bousman: Dude, I've been gunning for that forever. I have been begging them to release it NC-17. In fact, I wanted them to release Repo as an NC-17. It's not gonna happen right now, because it's a huge financial risk. It's gonna take five or six films to come out as NC-17 and be successful before it ever hits mainstream. I think if you ever were going to release a film as NC-17, Saw would be a great place to start, because Saw has such a loyal built-in fan base that you know you're gonna get people to go see it. I keep saying to them, "Do it as a Saw film, because I think that the majority of people by now who have seen the other Saw films would go seen an NC-17Saw." But if another film was to come out and go NC-17, I don't know how successful it would be.
TONY: In Saw 3, we see some very emotional traps with a lot of energy and pain behind them. As a director, when you're filming these scenes, how do you handle your actors?
Darren Lynn Bousman: You know, each one is different and each actor is different. There's some actors, like Bahar, for example, was terrified of blood and she hated the sight of blood and didn't like seeing blood on her. You handle her much differently than you handle, let's say, Donnie Wahlberg, who will play in blood. That all being said, I gotta tell you, the Saw films are probably the most laid back, fun, everyone's-joking-around-and-everyone's-having-a-good-time set that you could ever hope to be on. It's not serious in the least. It's not like we play serious music and get everyone in an emotional state of readiness. No, it's not like that. Everyone's laughing and joking, and then we yell "action," and then they stop laughing and joking. And when I yell "cut," they're back to laughing and joking. So, I think the Saw films are kind of great like that, because they are just so laid back. You would never know that by watching them.
TONY: On the Saw 3 Director's Cut DVD, we see the original ending that you wanted in the film. Now that you've had a chance to look at both endings, how do you feel they hold up?
Darren Lynn Bousman: Yeah, I mean, that is the ending that I wanted originally. I think it's great, and the reason why I like it so much is ... let me say two things: I think the theatrical ending was probably the best one for loyal Saw fans. For the people that actually like Saw and love Saw and wanted to see it continue, that was it, because the whole franchise is about Jigsaw. The best way to end the movie is the shot of Jigsaw. So, I think as a series conclusion, that ending is the best. As a stand alone ending and which ending do I think is best for the stand alone movie, the one that's on the Director's Cut, because it is so morbid and so wrong on so many levels to see that guy Jeff cradling his dead wife in his hands and telling her that it's going to be OK and kissing her and doing all of that, it's just so fucked up. As a director, I want to leave people with that fucked up feeling. That, to me, is more dramatic. That was a more dramatic ending.
TONY: After you put so much into Saw 3, do you feel a lot of pressure on Saw 4 to make it even better? I mean, you put A LOT into Saw 3.
Darren Lynn Bousman: It's hard. It really is. It's hard to stay passionate after so many movies. I think it's an easier time with me on the Saw films, because I truly do love them, and I truly do care about them. But it is hard. It's a hard thing to do. But, you know what, it's easy, because I have a great cast and a great story and a great crew every year. Could I continue doing these forever? No. That's why I had to get off after Saw 4. I've done three, and I'm glad I did them, but that's all I have in me.
TONY: After reading what happened with Eli Roth on Hostel Part 2 and how the film was pirated, how do you make sure that Saw stays a mystery? With the Internet and films being sold on the street, how do you protect yourself?
Darren Lynn Bousman: We had issues this year, because the ending got out this year a couple of days ago. And I had it taken down immediately. I just happened to be online, and I saw it posted two minutes ago. If you're on certain websites, you can see when they were actually posted. And I saw it was posted two minutes ago. I flipped out, and I had it taken down immediately, because piracy is a huge issue. And not only piracy, but leaks. And I think that the Saw films have become like magic tricks. Imagine if you're going to go see David Blaine or any of these other people: If you walked in knowing how they're doing the magic trick, it makes the trick invalid. It's like you've got this inside joke and you can laugh at him, because you know how he's doing it. The Saw films work as magic tricks. We have a magic trick that we don't want the audience to know about. If they know about the magic trick, it makes it, like I said, invalid. Movies like Saw have to be kept secret. They cannot be leaked. That's why I think it's important that piracy and all of this, I don't find it funny. A lot of my friends joke around about it and say, "Oh, look what I bought in Mexico. It's Saw 2." But it really does the affect the filmmaker.
TONY:Saw 4 also features a couple of new writers. What can we expect from the new writers?
Darren Lynn Bousman: It's just a different take. It's new characters and a new way of speaking. While they kept Jigsaw and everyone else in the same universe, it's a completely fresh take. And I think that it's good. It's good to have fresh eyes in there.
TONY: I've always found it fascinating how the Saw films are very much for the fans, but at the same time, you have your own vision as a director. How do you balance that? How do you keep the fans happy, but at the same time, make sure that you're happy with the film?
Darren Lynn Bousman: Again, it's another tricky one. As much as I hate to admit this, I would rather make a movie that I like. When I did Saw 3, I approached it as the fans. I was like, "What will the fans like? What will the fans dig?" Because they've been with the Saw films for two sequels. When I came into Saw 4, I was like, "What will make me happy as a director? What story do I want to tell?" I think you just gotta be true to yourself and hope that everyone else responds to it.
TONY: How hard is it to say goodbye to Saw? You've been involved with the franchise for over three years now.
Darren Lynn Bousman: It's sad, I'll tell you that much, leaving the Saw crew and leaving the Saw family. It's very sad, because it's been such a part of my life. It's been a big part of my life for many, many years.
TONY: I'm sure it's hard to put into words, but what makes the Saw franchise so popular? What's the magic formula?
Darren Lynn Bousman: We never copy ourselves. A lot of sequels you see, it could easily be the first one or the third one. Saw has a progression. There's a storyline progression. And I think that's a huge thing with the Saw films. It starts and keeps building and building and building. We're not repeating ourselves, and we're not doing the same thing over and over again. I think that's a big thing, because we continue to look for new and inventive ways to tell a story. Also, I think one thing that's helped the Saw films is everyone stayed the same. I repeat this a lot in interviews, but it's a huge thing. We don't change people, like the DP, the director, the cinematographer, the editor, the production designer, the set designer. So, they have a continuity to them. Everyone asks, "What was it like coming back for Saw 4?" It's not coming back ... it's never leaving Saw 3. It's just a continuation from Saw 2. So, I think that's one of the big things. I don't feel like I've ever left.
TONY:Saw 4 also features a few new actors, like Scott Patterson from Gilmore Girls. What was it like working with the new actors?
Darren Lynn Bousman: They were great. One thing I'm just in love with is some of the Toronto talent out here, and every year we find great people for the traps that are from Toronto. Two years ago, I found Tim Burd, who played Obi in Saw 2. And then last year, we found Debra, who was in the ice room, and Judge Halden, who was played by Barry Flatman. This year, we found Agent Perez's character, Athena, out here, and she was just fantastic, and she fit in immediately. Marty Adams and all these people in the traps were just fantastic. Scott Patterson, it was a huge thing to work with him. He came from Gilmore Girls and had been on TV for the last seven or eight years. He was one of the most fun people I've worked with. He was so down to earth and so willing to try new things. And he wanted to break that kind of persona of who Scott Patterson was, which was great.
TONY: I have to ask you about Paris Hilton in Repo. What did you see in her that made you want to cast her?
Darren Lynn Bousman: She was different, and I wanted to cast someone that was different. I did not want to go with someone that everybody was expecting, and I think this movie is different, edgy, and it's crazy and it's outside the box, and so is she.
TONY: When I interviewed Eli Roth in June, he commented on film critics and how they have a hard time looking past the violence in horror movies, and how they overlook the different messages and themes. Why do you think so many critics have a hard time looking past the gore?
Darren Lynn Bousman: These movies aren't for critics. And, you know what, it's a shame, but these aren't for critics. Eli's 100 percent correct. People don't look past the violence and the gore, and all they see is the blood, so that's what they think the movie is. I think it's hard for a critic to get behind movies that involve torture and in some scenes rape, because they don't want to be the one who says, "Oh, this is a great film." It's like, "Oh, does that mean they're condoning rape and torture, then?" And I think that's a big issue.
TONY: How much pressure do you feel with Repo coming up? You've been involved in the Saw films, and they've made so much money. With Repo, do you feel like you have to live up to that and keep raising the bar?
Darren Lynn Bousman: With Repo, it's a completely different thing. Repo is so outside the box, and that's the movie I've been wanting to make for ten years now. So, I don't really feel any pressure. This has been in my head for ten years, and the question now is will audiences get it? But I couldn't be more excited with the footage we have and the actors that we have in it.
TONY: If someone is reading our interview right now, why should they see Saw 4? Sell us on Saw 4. If someone is reading this and saying, "Oh, I'm tired of horror films," why should they see Saw 4? What's different about it?
Darren Lynn Bousman: We haven't jumped the shark yet, and we don't with this film, either. It delivers. It's not a classic horror film. It's not a blood and gore film. While there is lots of blood and gore in it, there's a story there and a message there. We have great actors, and it continues the legacy of Jigsaw. It's exciting, and I think people really need to give it a chance, because I don't think the Saw films have hit that sequel kind of thing yet.
TONY: We've talked a little bit about the Internet in this interview and some of the pros and cons of being on the Internet. How do you avoid some of the pitfalls of the Internet, and how do you keep your privacy?
Darren Lynn Bousman: The great thing is I'm not Eli Roth. Believe me, I love Eli, and he's one of my really good friends, but if Eli farts, it makes the Internet. If he goes to a premiere, it makes the Internet. I think that I'm very happy with where I'm at right now. And once in a while, someone will come up and recognize me and say hello to me, but I'm not here to be famous. I'm not here to do whatever. I'm here to make movies. I love what I'm doing right now and I love where I'm at in my life right now, because my name gets me places when I wanna go somewhere, but I'm not the kind of person where I walk into a bar and everybody knows who I am.
TONY: My final question for you is kind of a fun question. On the Saw 3 DVD, you talked about the fart machine and how you used it during different scenes with the actors. Did you use the fart machine on Saw 4?
Darren Lynn Bousman: That fart machine is on every sat that I do. (laughs) Believe me, I have a gag reel with Scott Patterson that is going to kill people. Scott Patterson's the most awesome improviser, and we have some great, great stuff with him.
TONY: Thanks for doing this interview on such short notice. I know you're on your way to Spike TV's Scream Awards, so thanks for doing this. I appreciate it.
Darren Lynn Bousman: Of course. Thank you so much.
