411 Fact or Fiction Movies 08.15.08: Week 139

Posted by Jeremy Thomas on 08.15.2008

Is Robert Downey Jr. the star of the summer? Are Glover and Gibson too old for this? Is Clone Wars the latest step in the destruction of the Star Wars franchise on-screen? Old Guard meets New Blood in an epic confrontation as Ben Piper and Shawn Lealos debate these and more in week 139 of 411 Fact or Fiction: Movies!



Hello, Ladies and Gentlemen; welcome to another edition of the 411 Movie Zone's Fact or Fiction! I'm Jeremy Thomas, still subbing for Ben Piper while he goes on his great quest to find the mysterious super-counterespionage agent Arnold Furious. This week, I have none other then my fellow New World Order member Shawn Lealos, going in to the Movie Zone Steel Cage to take on...that's right, Ben Piper! Our Fact or Fiction host has emerged from his Furious hunt long enough to see if he can smite one of his so-called "pretenders to the throne" down, and you can be sure that, if nothing else, this will prove to be an EPIC confrontation! So without further adieu, let's get to it, folks!

1. With his much-lauded and talked-about roles in Iron Man to start the summer and Tropic Thunder at the end, Robert Downey Jr. is your pick for star of this movie season.

Ben Piper: Fact. Without any doubt. Hands down, far and away, the summer of 2008 has been completely owned in bookend fashion by Robert Downey, Jr. His turn as Tony Stark is the main reason why Iron Man succeeded as well as it did. He rocked that role and made it his own. He played it with the right amount of cockiness and genuine gravitas when it was needed. After seeing the movie, I seriously cannot fathom anyone else taking on the role and playing it as true as Downey did. Without him, Iron Man in NO WAY would have been the success that it was. With regards to Tropic Thunder, he's genuinely pushing some boundaries and taking a risk by playing a hardcore white Australian method actor who takes up the role of an American black dude. (Ahem, African-American. Have to cover my bases with regards to being PC, lest I piss SOMEONE off) He himself has stated that he was initially worried when he took on the part that he'd be squandering any goodwill he'd built up with the public with Iron Man if he somehow screwed the pooch. Early word has it that he is a complete scene-stealer. Again, perhaps it's just me, but I think the general public has bought into Robert Downey, Jr's talents as a complete thespian, to the point that when they see that it's him taking on this potentially button-pushing endevour, they are more than ready to take the ride. I say good for him. After all he's been through and all the pitfalls of life he's had to endure, he's more than earned his redemption this year.

Shawn S. Lealos: Fact. Robert Downey, Jr. is the man. There is no question about that. His career comeback started with a great performance in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. Since that performance, I have been eagerly awaiting his return to importance and this year he hit the grand slam to end all grand slams. First, we get Iron Man, a surprise hit that reviews said was due mostly to his excellent performance as Tony Stark. Then we see him don the black face and take on a very controversial role in what appears to be a very, very funny movie. Robert Downey Jr. only showed promise in the past. Since his latest run in with the law, he has been on fire, delivering career defining performances. His troubles appear to be behind him and he is indeed the MVP of this movie year.

Score: 1 for 1

2. Kevin Smith's successful appeal of Zach and Miri Make a Porno's NC-17 rating down to an R is a welcome change from the MPAA's usually questionable criteria in rating films.

Ben Piper: Fiction. I say this because it's happened before, and it will most assuredly happen again. Hell, Smith already has gone through the appeals process previously (I believe it was with Clerks 2, but don't quote me on that) before earning the R rating he was looking for. The MPAA is notorious with regards to working with a bit of a double standard. They seem to be okay for the most part to giving a film with full frontal (female) nudity, and vomit inducing amounts of blood and gore an R rating without much of a hassle, but if a movie has really over the top foul language, or is too explicitly sexual in nature, they have no problem with slapping them with an instant NC-17. ( Not to say that violent films haven't been singled out, just not as often from what I gather) From what I understand in regards to Zack and Miri, after ordering Smith to edit the movie down to get an R rating, they again slapped him with an NC-17 after they concluded that there were still too many "simulated sexual thrusts". Mr. Smith demanded an appeal, and eventually won out. Irregardless, the ratings process that is in place is questionable at best. Don't get me wrong, I also feel that children should be shielded from the stuff that is truly intended for adult eyes. On one hand, I do feel the MPAA does a service to the movie-going public with regards to informing the masses as to the content of the stuff they are paying good money to see. But I also feel the current ratings board and the process with which they reach their conclusions is tantamount to blatant censorship. This is a tough argument. But ultimately, I think and feel that it's the parents that are responsible with what young children experience on the big or small screen, not some unseen unknown board of individuals that ultimately decide what you and I may choose to see as discriminating adults. If you don't believe everything I've stated upon the subject, I urge you to seek out the documentary This Movie Is Not Yet Rated which takes the MPAA to task for their questionable tactics.

Shawn S. Lealos: Fiction. Ben Piper beat me to it. This Movie is Not Yet Rated is where you need to look for this answer. Kevin Smith winning his appeal is not going to be any bigger than the fact that two NC-17 films garnered Oscar nominations (Henry & June Requiem for a Dream). The ratings board is a popularity contest and it has been, and will continue to be, rare that anyone will beat them in the end. Eyes Wide Shut, American Pie, Happiness and Saw all were re-edited after the MPAA threatened an NC-17. Team America: World Police cut the amount of time puppet's had sex to earn an R rating. The entire process is a joke, and I was hoping for change when Mon Fuhrer Jack Valenti got his ass out of the office, but no... The voters are still anonymous, which means they will continue to be held unaccountable for their decisions. The person appealing must receive a 2/3 vote to overturn the decision, and their attorney is not allowed to be present at the hearing. Even Kevin Smith, the man who is rewarded by this decision, said it was "only part of the process." The is a game of forcing filmmakers to jump through hoops for the MPAA and it won't end anytime soon. Besides, the rating means shit because a few months after its release, the DVD will almost always include the Unrated version, so what are the censors actually stopping?

Score: 2 for 2

3. Despite an interesting concept and the presence of Keifer Sutherland, Alexandre Aja's Mirrors will end up being just another substandard Asian horror remake.

Ben Piper: Fiction. I'm basing this opinion solely upon the commercials and previews that I have seen for this, considering that as of this writing the movie has yet to be released. I do acknowledge the fact that most if not all of the Americanized versions of Japanese horror films that have come out have been sub-standard, to say the least. Off of the top of my head, only The Ring registers in my mind as a movie that I enjoyed and thought was worth my while. That said, based upon what I've seen, this looks rather nifty, at least to me. You could do far worse than Keifer Sutherland as your star, and the visuals and the ideas behind this seem to be interesting. Of course, I may just be falling into the role of hapless marketing victim that's duped into believing that a shitty movie looks better than it really is. Not that it matters, as I won't be seeing this unless it gets some decent buzz and even then I'll wait for the DVD to come out. If I'm going to shell out my money to see a flick in the theaters this week, it's either going to be Pineapple Express or Tropic Thunder that claims my full attention.

Shawn S. Lealos: Fact. I don't care who is starring in this movie, it looks no different than Shutter, The Eye or any other of the repetitive horror movies we have been getting bombarded with lately. The one thing this movie has going for it is the R rating. The trailers actually have me interested in it, which is a change for this type of movie, but the idea is old and boring. Aja has proved to be a shocking filmmaker, to say the least. A look at The Hills Have Eyes remake shows he will do about anything to stir the audience. And what about Keifer Sutherland? Outside of 24, what has he done lately that has been noteworthy? The Sentinel was crap. Taking Lives was crap. He was great in Phone Booth, but you never saw him until the end. Outside of his hit TV show, Keifer is no longer the man that once wore the Stetson of "Doc." And Amy Smart looks horrible in the trailers, but, outside of Crank, when has she ever been worth a damn.

Score: 2 for 3

Aaaaaand SWITCH!

4. Jokes about the famous "too old for this" line aside, Mel Gibson and Danny Glover really are too old to return for a fifth Lethal Weapon.

Shawn S. Lealos: Fact. One of my favorite movie characters of all time is Martin Riggs. That is, one of my favorite characters of all time is Martin Riggs from the first Lethal Weapon movie. The series is fun, but it moved more into buddy comedy instead of the great intense setup of the first movie. Mel Gibson was the man in the original film and was neutered to the point of being barely recognizable in the sequels. I don't want to see more of the bastardization of his character in another Lethal Weapon film. And I don't want to see 62-year old Danny Glover running around as a cop anymore than I would want to see Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry again. Let the series rest. It died in the fourth movie anyway.

Ben Piper: Fiction. Hey, if a 65 year old Harrison Ford can pull off another Indy flick that made oodles of money, why can't Gibson and Glover? As long as they don't "Nuke the fridge" or find themselves staring at an alien mothership at the end, I say go for it. My only question is if they'll be able to bring back the rest of the regular cast, such as Joe Pesci, Rene Russo, and to a lesser extent, Chris Rock. If they can do all that and still not get too cartoony with not only the premise but the on screen execution, I think Lethal 5 would likely be another decent installment in the popular movie franchise.

Score: 2 for 4

5. With Brad Pitt, Eli Roth, Simon Pegg and David Krumholtz so far, Quinton Tarantino's Inglorious Bastards has one of the most interesting cast mix you've seen in a long time.

Shawn S. Lealos: Fact. Quentin Tarantino doesn't know how to put together an uninteresting cast. Start with Brad Pitt. The guy is one of the best screen presences living today. The fact that he is in a Tarantino movie is GOLD. Remember the last time he touched a Tarantino property? True Romanceand a honey bear. Brad Pitt is a great man looking for a great role and Tarantino's brain is full of great characters. Next, let's pull up Simon Pegg. The guy is brilliant and since he always seems to play the serious character surrounded by buffoonery in his comedies, I can see him pulling this off. Bring the Hot Fuzz Simon Pegg and I am sold. Eli Roth? Eh. David Krumholtz? I can't see him as anything more than Goldstein in my head right now. I say fact for three reasons: Brad Pitt, Simon Pegg and Quentin Tarantino. Those three have me sold- hook, line and sinker.

Ben Piper: Fact. And it's likely to only get better, depending on who else they attach to it. Right now there are rumors that Nastassja Kinski will soon join the cast, and according to AICN, Tarantino wants Harvey Keitel and Adam Sandler to be a part of his dream cast for this movie. While I don't know if he will be able to pull that off, (Sandler) I think it's safe to say that this is already generating buzz so I'd be willing to bet that a lot of quality actors would work cheaply just to get the chance to be involved in this with Tarantino and Pitt. So yes, while this cast is interesting and good thus far, I suspect it will get exponentially better as the weeks pass.

Score: 3 for 5

6. The fact that Star Wars: The Clone Wars has been released in theaters largely in order to lead into the CGI television series is a bad decision that further cheapens the franchise's theatrical legacy.

Shawn S. Lealos: Fact. I don't know about further tarnishing the legacy, but I see this release as a simple money making decision. They are not releasing it to showcase more of Lucas' vision. That was the prequels (which I actually liked). This is a simple endeavor to make money and, I guess, lead to the television series. The animation looks like crap and, while I was excited about the prequels, I couldn't give a crap about this. I don't even get a little excited when I see the trailer. To give me a Star Wars product that doesn't even garner a little fanboy excitement is failuire.

Ben Piper: Fact. As Shawn stated, this to me looks like a money grab, pure and simple. And don't get me wrong, I was a Star Wars junkie since the original movie came out. (Way to date yourself there, Ben) But this just feels wrong. Just earlier tonight, I saw a commercial for this that was touting it as "The untold chapter in the Star Wars saga". If there were truth in advertising, it would have said that it was "A chapter in the untold chapter of the Star Wars saga". The fact remains that the only reason why this movie is being foisted upon us has to do with the fact that George Lucas saw the early product of the upcoming TV series and thought they could make it work ( and make money) as a full length theatrical feature. For whatever reason this simply brings to mind comedian Brian Posehn explaining onstage that watching the first two Star Wars prequels was like being mouth-raped by his favorite Uncle George after falling asleep at Thanksgiving in three-year intervals. While I don't exactly feel that way towards the prequels, (which were okay, but nowhere near the awesomeness I was expecting, Sith was very good, IMHO) I do have that feeling this time around. Will I watch this in the theater? Hell, no. Lucas has enough of my money already. Will I watch the animated series? Maybe, but I seriously doubt it will be a part of my regular weekly TV watching rotation. Will I rent this movie on DVD when it comes out? Only if everything else that is available I've already seen. Seriously, and I grew up on this stuff. I'm lukewarm at best right now.

Final Score: 4 for 6

And there you have it...the Old Guard and the New Blood have more in common then they think. I do have to give Shawn a ton of cool points for making a Young Guns reference, it being one of the greatest Brat Pack films out there, while Ben scores his share with the awesome response to question number six. Thank you very much to both men, and Ben, say hi to that Furious guy if you ever find him!

And to you our readers, thank you for reading. Tune in next week, one that promises to be interesting as Jason Statham drives for his life, Anna Faris is a hot blonde (what else is news?), Rainn Wilson gets his rock on, and much more! We'll see you then!

--Jer