411 Movies Interview: Jerry Stahl
Posted by Tony Farinella on 03.04.2009
411's Tony Farinella sits down with acclaimed writer Jerry Stahl for an exclusive interview about his new book, Painkillers!
Screenwriter/author Jerry Stahl is not afraid to speak his mind and tell it like it is. In fact, his book, Permanent Midnight, a memoir about addiction, is brutal, frank, and very, very honest. It was even turned into a movie, with Ben Stiller playing the part of Jerry Stahl. Recently, he wrote a novel called Painkillers, which is a must-read if you're a fan of Jerry Stahl and his unique style. Recently, I caught up with the author/screenwriter to discuss a number of very unique topics, including addiction, Mickey Rourke, The Wrestler, Ben Stiller, Hollywood, and a whole lot more. I hope you enjoy my interview with Jerry Stahl.
TONY: Every book and every project is different and so is the creative process behind it. For you, personally, what was this process like, from conception of the novel to the finished product?
Jerry Stahl: Well, I think that's a flattering question, and I'm surprised that an author knows what the fuck he's doing. The process, for me, is just kind of like stepping into a jungle with a machete and a can of really ineffective insect spray and just hoping you make your way to the other end. For me, I just had an idea and wanted to find a way to pursue something fascinating to me in a way that might interest some other people.
TONY: How do you dive into something like this? Do you tend to go into hiding and just focus on the book? Do you ask people a lot of questions along the way and show them the material? What's your method?
Jerry Stahl: Well, to answer the first part of your question, to me, it's like having a tiny little fetus in your pocket and you don't want to be taking it out and showing it to people because it will just get fucked up and die. Pardon my language, it will just get damaged and die. So I tend not to discuss ideas with a lot of people before I do it because it's too fragile. And after that, yeah, a lot of solitude and that's the writer's lot. I'm not one of those guys who writes in a Starbucks window.
TONY: You mentioned earlier in this interview that you wanted to pursue something that was fascinating to you and you were hoping that it would be interesting to other people. How do you find that balance? How do you write for yourself but also for an audience?
Jerry Stahl: I don't really think you can. I think if you just try and second guess what other people want to do and do that, which there are people who live long lives in Hollywood and in publishing doing that. But, to me, you have to just pursue it yourself and if somebody else wants to come along for the ride, that's great. It's a privilege to get to do it. What I respond to in other writers is passion and the voice less than the subject matter. If the right author writes the phone book, I'm going to read it.
TONY: Do you put a lot of pressure on yourself to top your previous book, or is each piece of material different and should be treated as such?
Jerry Stahl: That's a great question. I think there's really two kinds of artists in any field: The people who find one thing they can do and just keep doing it, which is one way to go. And then there's the people who just make it hot for themselves and kind of change genres or just go in a different direction than their quote, unquote audience expects. To me, it's less about topping yourself, it's just that you don't want to repeat yourself. You don't want to bore yourself either.
TONY: People in the entertainment field often say that how an audience responds to their work says more about themselves than it does about the work. Do you think that's true in regards to your work?
Jerry Stahl: Yeah, absolutely. I think you bring to the table what you walk in the door with. It's sort of like people who watch TV and think that David Letterman is talking directly to them. There's a certain schizophrenia in all of us that I think hopes and fantasies that we're being talked to by an author. And I think everybody hears what they need to hear.
TONY: What has it been like reading what your peers and other people around Hollywood have been saying about your work?
Jerry Stahl: You write terrific questions. I don't spend a lot of time reading my own blurbs, but it's nice to be acknowledged once in a while. And there's just as many people on the other side. Or a seesaw would probably be dead even.
TONY: What do you get out of novel writing compared to other writing?
Jerry Stahl: Basically, the thing you get out of novel writing is control. If it sucks, it's your fault. If it's great, it's you. It's not a particularly collaborative genre, unless like I was this time, you're lucky enough to have a great editor who kind of makes you a better writer than you are. But nobody can make a bad book good. Unlike, say movies or TV, where there's always somebody saying, 'We love it, but change it to a seven-year-old Chinese girl and set it in Rochester.' At least with a book, you have complete control and you don't have to answer to anybody, for better or worse.
TONY: How do you like your place in Hollywood here in 2009?
Jerry Stahl: I don't even think about that, man. I subscribe to HBO and watch cable, so I guess I'm in the entertainment world. But I don't think about where I am on the Hollywood food chain, if I'm even on it.
TONY: Considering some of your previous work, I have to ask you, what did you think of The Wrestler? You've written about addiction before and this film deals with a different kind of addiction.
Jerry Stahl: I thought it was just amazing on every level. Just on a small personal note, the first Playboy interview I ever did was with Mickey Rourke on Angel Heart a long time ago down in New Orleans. So it was just great to see him and it's an amazing movie. I thought they really got it. That director has got into that subject before. I mean, Pi, in its own weird way, was about obsession and addiction. Requiem for a Dream is probably the best addiction movie ever made. So he was the perfect director for the perfect actor with the perfect movie. It's the best movie I ever saw on the subject.
TONY: What was it like interviewing Mickey Rourke back then and what has it been like following his career since then?
Jerry Stahl: I was young and green and stupid and didn't know a lot of movie stars, so I don't think it was particularly memorable for him. But it was not easy. The best stuff I got in the interview, I think, came when he was just railing at the interviewer for being an idiot or making fun of my clothes. How can I put this? That thing he has in his eyes, that kind of honesty that is there whether he wants it or not. He was unsparing about himself or anybody else.
TONY: What's your professional and personal take on today's economy and how it's affecting the entertainment world?
Jerry Stahl: Well, I'm sure my business, such as it is, is no different than anybody else's. You kind of have to do five jobs to make a fifth of what you made when you just had one. I'm lucky enough to have a few gigs at the moment, and I guess all I can say is I've had a lot of practice being broke, and if I have to go back there, I'll know what to pack. It is brutal watching what's happening and knowing that it was caused by our friend Mr. Bush and a bunch of rich white guys.
TONY: Looking back on your career, what are some situations or experience that you point to and say, 'Those experiences have really shaped me into the person that I am today?'
Jerry Stahl: For me, personally, the most life changing and valuable experiences are generally when life has conspired one way or another to kick your ass and then you generally learn something. So, for me, it was always just being dead broke and seeing how people in L.A. look at you when you ride the bus or working at McDonald's at thirty-eight and having these sixteen-year-olds kind of whisper to themselves, 'I think he's retarded.' Any experience that teaches you humility, for me, is the most valuable.
TONY: Speaking of jobs, what's the worst job you've ever had?
Jerry Stahl:: The worst job I've ever had? For me, the worst job I ever had was being a junkie, because you wake up in the morning and you instantly have to go to work and get what you need and by the time you hustle and do what you have to do to get it, you need to go out and do it again. You became a very pain-wracked robot, and that's definitely the worst gig I ever had. It's all gravy after that.
TONY: How have you survived when so many other junkies have either died or fallen by the wayside?
Jerry Stahl: I guess just dumb luck, really. I can't think of anything else. There's a lot of people more deserving than I who are on the other side of the grass right now. So, I don't know, by the end, it was such a boring, drab life and I was too broke to do it. It was hard getting off it, but at the same time, you just realize the squarest life in the world is being a junkie and once that revelation kicks in, you kind of lose your taste for it.
TONY: Since you've had your writing turned into a movie, I have to ask you, what have been some of your favorite books turned into movies?
Jerry Stahl: That's a great question. Let's see. Jeez, I wish I had time to sit down and sound smart before you called. I always go blank. I thought Trainspotting was amazing. But I also thought Jesus' son, Dennis Johnson's book, I think that was the probably the best adaption that comes to mind right now, with Billy Crudup.
TONY: Since you've worked with Ben Stiller in the past, I have to ask you, what did you think of his Joaquin Phoenix impersonation at the Oscars?
Jerry Stahl: It was so good that I think Joaquin was imitating him.
TONY: Finally, what are your plans for the future and what are you currently working on?
Jerry Stahl: Well, I'm working on a couple of really, really great gigs. I'm doing a thing for HBO, thank you for asking, about Ernest Hemingway that I think Gandolfini is going to be playing. The director, Philip Kaufman, who did The Right Stuff , is going to be directing. So I'm just starting that. I'm finishing up writing a boxing movie about The Bayonne Bleeder, Chuck Wepner, with a guy named Jeff Feuerzeig, who directed The Devil and Daniel Johnston. So a couple of really cool gigs. Hopefully I'll manage to stay above water and get to wear my own clothes when I get to go to work.
