411 Eminem Roundtable: Infinite and The Slim Shady LP

Posted by Joshua George on 04.09.2009

We've been waiting so long for Relapse that some of the other 411mania staffers and I have decided to look back at some of the older albums to tide us over.

Since 1995 Eminem has brought us envelope-pushing, line-crossing, and mainstreamingly-offensive lyrics as well as some edgy beats. On May 19th, we're going to be welcomed into another Era of Em. Not since 2004 has Marshall Mathers given us the chance to hear his stylings on the mic. We've been waiting patiently while he's worked on other projects, and now after 5 years of patience, we're about to be rewarded with his 6th album Relapse. We've been told that we're also going to be graced with Relapse 2 later this year... now if only we could actually see the release of Detox. Anyway, look no further and seek no more. We're about to go back a few years and investigate Em's Freshman and Sophomore efforts, Infinite and The Slim Shady LP.

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Part One: Infinite and The Slim Shady LP

Infinite is Eminem's first album not to be sold out of a trunk. There were demo tracks upon demo tracks made with The Bass Brothers out of their studio in Michigan dubbed "The Bassmint". Finally he was ready to put out an album and managed to write and record this album in 1995. When this was first recorded our boy was under the stage name M&M, but decided to change that after the release of his first real single to what is now the well-known Eminem. The album was given a very limited number of copies and was released only on cassettes and vinyl. This album is looked at as one of the less successful albums of his because of the fact that he tried to specifically make the tracks "radio-friendly" so he could get airplay on Detroit's best Hip Hop radio station at the time, WJLB-98. Infinite is regarded as the least offensive of any of the rest of his albums and it's this blatant disregard for "social acceptance" that has made him as famous as he is today. There is one potentially pirated rerelease of this album and there is also a "European Re-Issue" which contains an extra disc with unreleased tracks and freestyles.


Many of us have heard this before and so now the 411mania Music Staff and I are going to go back and talk about how we felt about it.





Do you own this album?


Patrick Robinson: I've had this album for many years now, I think I first got it around 2000 or so when I first got into Eminem's music, and decided to see if I could find any mixtapes etc. prior to The Slim Shady LP. Lo and behold, Infinite turned up one day, and the result was an eye opener to say the least.


Jon Kinsey: Truth be told, I didn't even know that this album existed prior to this Roundtable!

Matt Shoemaker: Yes, I own the album. Digitally, at least.

Ben Czajkowski: I do own this album. For me, I'm the type of person that needs/wants to complete a catalog for an artist that I enjoy. Eminem happens to be one of those artists, for various reasons (some of which stem back to my teen rebellion against my mother). Getting my hands on this album was actually more difficult than I had thought it would be. And definitely a waste of my efforts of doing so.

Weng Yu: No.

Joshua George: I do own this album. Much as Ben said, Eminem is one of those artists that I really just needed to complete the collection. I definitely wouldn't say to take a lot of time trying to find it, but if you get a chance to listen to it, you should give it a shot.



What are your blast tracks?


Patrick Robinson:My favorite tracks are probably the title track, "Tonight" and "313", with "Backstabber" not far behind. The dark and rhythmic production on the title track set the mood for the album, and you'd be surprised as to how lyrically dexterous Eminem was back in 1996. "Tonight" is a party track, but Em's flow is incredible, actually it's damn near flawless throughout the entire album. "313" is a battle track which is helped by an appearance from Eye-Kyu, and Em shows off his impressive lyricism once again with lines like "I run your brain around the block to jog your fuckin' memory" dropping bar after bar. "Backstabber" was probably the pre-cursor for Em's Slim Shady persona in later years, and there's some pretty funny one-liners throughout.


Jon Kinsey:This is a difficult one for me to quantify, since this album is so different to what we know Eminem's work to be. "Searchin'" is the closest thing to an all out love song that Mathers has ever written and that alone makes it worth a listen. The lyrics are remarkably juvenile, but, knowing what is to come in later years, there is something strangely endearing about him referencing "snuggling and teasing". It reminds me a little of a Boyz II Men lyric which, in this particular instance, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Matt Shoemaker: "Infinite", "313", "Tonite", "Open Mic". My reasoning for both the Blast and Skip answers lie in the fact that, while the beats aren't fantastic, Em's delivery is what makes or breaks those tracks for me.

Ben Czajkowski: There's nothing on this album that I would want to really crank up. All tracks are at mediocrity or below. I began to see the maturity and direction in the latter half of the abum: "Searchin", "Backstabber", and "Jealousy Woes II". Where I think Eminem excels is with the way he spins and raps a story.

Weng Yu: "Maxine", "Backstabber"

Joshua George: I think for me the primary tracks here that are good to blast and will also lead you into Eminem's more "popular" stuff would be "Backstabber" and "Jealousy Woes II". A big one for me too is "313" because it really gives us where Eminem comes from and what he truly loves to do. All of the tracks on this album have Eminem really dropping some bad ass lyrics, but the overall production value is a little rough, as is expected from the freshman attempt.



What are your skip tracks?

Patrick Robinson: There are some below average tracks. If "Backstabber" was the pre-cursor for Slim Shady tracks, "Maxine" was the pre-cursor for tracks such as "Drips" later on in his career. There's nothing new here, and the production gets tiring after a while. "Searchin" is Em's early attempts at a love song combined with his excellent lyricism, but the track is brought down by boring production once again. Finally, "Jealousy Woes II" was probably meant to be an homage to LL Cool J's "Jealousy" track, but the production which can only be described as extremely odd is too distracting to pay attention to the lyrics.

Jon Kinsey: Most of the rest of it, to be honest. The stylistic and thematic differences between this and the rest of Eminem's output make it almost impossible to approach the songs on this album with the knowledge of what would come after.

Matt Shoemaker: "It's OK", "Maxine", "Never 2 Far"

Ben Czajkowski:Honestly, there's not too much to write home about on Infinite. Luckily, this is not where Eminem peaked; in fact, it's the contrary. It's where he began. When the album comes up on iTunes, I skip past it. There's nothing that stands out and says, "Hell yeah! Listen to that right now…"

Weng Yu: "Jealousy Woes II"

Joshua George: I would have to say that I agree with Jon. Much of the rest of this album other than what I listed above on the blast tracks is skippable mostly due to the odd/low production value. This just goes to show that you definitely can't base your opinion of an artist on their first album, right?



What would you rate this album from 1 - 10?:

Patrick Robinson: Overall, I'd give this album an 8.0


Jon Kinsey:4.5

Matt Shoemaker: It took me a while to rate this album, because I've never really heard it, but I think I'd have to with a 6.5.

Ben Czajkowski: 4.0

Weng Yu: 6.0

Joshua George: I would give this one a solid 5.0. I don't think it was bad, but it was certainly just middle of the course.



Final Thoughts:

Patrick Robinson: The main issues with Infinite are issues that constantly plague rappers trying to break into the game, and those on the underground scene: poor production. With the exception of the title track, there isn't one beat that really stands out in your memory, and the majority of the production is repetitive and would be sleep-inducing, save for the fact that Em's rapping is outstanding. His flow in particular, we've only seen glimpses of in his major label career when compared to what's on Infinite and his lyrical content is quite different to what we've become used to, for the better in some cases. There's also the issue that he sounds strangely like AZ throughout the entire album. In the end though, Infinite provides us an interesting look at the mind of an artist before the personal trauma, the drugs and 50 Cent influence molded him into the artist we know today.

Jon Kinsey: This isn't necessarily a bad album, it's just too different from the rest of Mathers' work for me to properly judge it. There are some clever lyrical turns, but the whole thing is the work of a young man who is yet to find his voice and that is disarmingly obvious at points. On Infinite, Mathers displays, at times, the potential that he would later realize, transforming himself into one of the decade's defining musical artists, but anyone professing a modicum of honesty would have to admit that they could not have known, from this release, just how big Eminem would become.

Matt Shoemaker: All in all, having not heard this album before today (as in the day I'm writing this, not posted date), it's definitely... different. While Shady's delivery on most of the tracks is solid, it just doesn't feel like an Eminem album. I guess that's the problem with hearing his more popular material first. As a rap album, and just a rap album, it's pretty good. You can definitely hear alot of the creativity that made Eminem what he is today, and there's a definite old school feel to the album. But like I said, I can't really get past the fact that it's actually an Eminem album, and that, unfortunately, weighs it down a bit for me. Almost as if, as much as I want to like the album, that one little thing is stopping from getting past the point I'm at.

Ben Czajkowski: I'm glad that this isn't the Eminem that debuted on the mainstream or I think we would be looking at an entirely different rap industry right now. I feel like this Marshall Mathers hadn't even evolved into Eminem yet, yet alone Slim Shady. He lacks his lyrical storytelling, delivery, and humor. It's like listening to...



instead of...



Weng Yu: Its not really clear who produced what tracks, but for an independent album it isn't exactly terrible. I've listened to a lot of independent artists where I was reaching for the skip button for nearly every track, but this was a pretty solid listen throughout. Em's talent was certainly evident, even if he was still trying to pin down his own style at the time. However there's very little indication that he would eventually turn into one of the top MC's in the game.

Joshua George: I think everyone has definitely said what needs to be said here. Eminem is an amazing artist and THAT much is definitely shown throughout the course of this album. The one thing that ISN'T shown is that he would eventually get much better with production and flow... he would soon begin to do some drugs and collaborate with some important people and will eventually become one of the biggest rappers in the game. Can you tell that by listening to Infinite? Absolutely not.

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Let's jump on in to The Slim Shady LP.

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The Slim Shady LP was Eminem's true "commercial" debut and was released in 1999 from under Dr. Dre's label, Aftermath Entertainment. This was hit with all kinds of acclaim as well as incredible amounts of criticism. He had one of the most incredible flows, but many activist groups all the way from womens' rights to GLBT were down Eminem's throat for his "unacceptable" references. The Slim Shady LP debuted at #2 on the charts just under TLC's FanMail. After this, the album went on to be certified 5x platinum. Eminem has sold over 9 million units of this album worldwide, and the official single from the album was "My Name Is". The Slim Shady LP has been listed as number 273 on Rolling Stone magazine's list of the 500 greatest albums of all time, which was higher than The Marshall Mathers LP placed on the list.

Let's see what the fellas have to say here.



Do you own this album?

Patrick Robinson: I picked up a physical copy of this album the other day, although I've had it for ages in MP3 format. I wasn't a big fan of it on the whole though, but over the year's it has grown on me. I think as we've seen Eminem decline in terms of his lyrical abilities in recent years, it's become more of a telling point, this is what he is capable of, if he's willing to take a trip back to it.

Jon Kinsey: I do indeed. I picked this up about six months after it was first released, when the hype in secondary school became so great that it was impossible to leave it alone.

Matt Shoemaker: Digitally, like all of them.

Ben Czajkowski: I do own this album as well.

Weng Yu: No.

Joshua George: I sure do own this puppy. I own a physical copy as well as a digital copy of this. This was my first venture into the world of Marshall Mathers. I have to say that our relationship was never the same after this album.



What are your blast tracks?

Patrick Robinson: My favorite track on the album is definitely "Guilty Conscience", which is in my opinion, one of the best Eminem / Dr. Dre collaborations around. "My Fault" I think also embodies why Eminem was so insanely popular in the first half of this decade. He could have taken the track down a serious route, but instead he uses comedy to actually make a really valid point about drug use. "Bad Meets Evil" also marked the beginning of Royce and Eminem's mainstream recording relationship, and still stands as one of their best works. With their reconciliation however, I can only imagine what they're cooking up now.

Jon Kinsey: There are two great songs on this album, which have been locked firmly in my mind for over a decade. The first is "My Fault", with its chorus vocal that was so catchy that I spent approximately six months of my life desperately wrestling with the urge to sing it at the most inappropriate moments. This track was the keystone that linked what Mathers was – a rapper desperately trying to find his voice but hiding behind a comic persona – and what he would become – a painfully clever lyricist who could tell a story better than almost anyone in the business. The other standout track is "97' Bonnie and Clyde", which was probably the only 100% straight song on the album and was the cut that first made me realize that there was more to this bleach blonde loudmouth than sex jokes and swearing. A well thought out narrative, it's depth and duality stood out a country mile – that the narrator could be so tender to his daughter while he was disposing of the corpse of her dead mother is a clarion call in a genre that is famously devoid of depth. "If I Had" is also a great song, emphasizing the poverty and sense of desperation endemic in Mathers' community, a stark contrast to his musings on fame in later albums.

Matt Shoemaker: "Guilty Conscience", "Brain Damage", "97 Bonnie and Clyde", "Just Don't/Still Don't Give a Fuck"

Ben Czajkowski: I love the majority of this album, and you can see where there was a huge growth from the influence of the other rappers around him (Dre and such). It's full of raps that have been on my iPod longer than most of the rock I have: tracks like "Rock Bottom", "Guilty Conscience", "Brain Damage", "My Fault", "Bad Meets Evil", and "Still Don't Give A Fuck". Hell, I remember when "My Name Is" made it onto my rock radio station for the longest time. I was so confused the first time I heard it. Then the DJ gets on after it and goes, "The big wigs at Clear Channel told us we have to play that song, so I apologize for making you all listen to that rap shit." Yeah….

Weng Yu: "Brain Damage", "Role Model", "My Fault"

Joshua George: I have to say that I absolutely love "Still Don't Give A Fuck", "97' Bonnie and Clyde", "My Fault", "Guilty Conscience", and not to mention we get our introduction to "Ken Kaniff".



What are your skip tracks?

Patrick Robinson: "Cum On Everybody" was kind of stupid, although the intention was sound. "I'm Shady" features a beat that is absolutely everywhere and Em singing, before he really sorted out his niche in that respect. Honestly though, it's actually a really solid album, and there's not much I skip when I listen to it. Sure some of the other songs aren't as good as the others, but they don't warrant a Skip button hit either.

Jon Kinsey: Back when this was first released, I always had an irrational dislike for the skits, which seem contrived and out of place. Truth be told though, these days I would skip everything but my Blast Tracks. "Guilty Conscience" is too disjointed to be effective, "Role Model" lacks the sophistication of songs that will tread similar ground in the future and "My Name Is" is too obviously looking for mainstream airplay, altogether lacking the element of parody that would become a staple in the next decade.

Matt Shoemaker: "My Name Is", "Lounge", "Rock Bottom"

Ben Czajkowski: I really just skip the skits. Yeah, they're funny every once in a while, but they really don't have any replay value.

Weng Yu: "My Name Is", "Cum On Everybody"

Joshua George: I would have to say I almost always skip over "Cum On Everybody" though I think it's funny. I can't honestly say that I skip anything else every time, though "My Name Is" does get skipped quite a bit just because I definitely heard that enough when it was all over the radio.



What would you rate this album from 1 - 10?

Patrick Robinson: My personal rating for the album would be an 8 out of 10. It's not my favorite Eminem album by far, but you can't deny his lyrical dexterity and humor on this album. Tracks like "As The World Turns" get a legitimate laugh out loud from me, as does a lot of this album as a whole.

Jon Kinsey: 6.5

Matt Shoemaker: 8.0

Ben Czajkowski: 9.0

Weng Yu: 7.0

Joshua George: I definitely give this album at least a 9.0, and I would be pressed to not give it a 9.5 just because of how good this really was. I forgot how much I loved this CD until we sat down to do this roundtable again... damn, I miss the young Em.



Final Thoughts

Patrick Robinson: As we work on these entries for each album, it's interesting to watch how Eminem developed as a rapper. So far on Infinite we've seen Eminem the battle rapper and the hungry and determined MC from Detroit. Here on The Slim Shady LP, we can see him develop his humor and lyrical stylings, although he seems to have sacrificed the flow he displayed on Infinite to an extent. While it's an entertaining listen, I think the amount of skits hurt the album a little, although the one with Paul Rosenberg did become a signature of his future albums I guess. Anyway, The Slim Shady LP is a really good look at an artist right before the fame and personal and family drama really began. Those hardships however I feel shaped him to become a better artist as we'll see on his next albums.

Jon Kinsey: While this was Eminem's breakthrough album and the collection that got the world at large talking, ten years on and, with the knowledge of what comes next, this strikes me more as a novelty album than anything else. The obvious limitations of the Slim Shady persona are on display during vast swathes of the LP and it's no surprise that the alter ego was more or less retired for future releases. With the exception of the three songs I've nominated as Blast Tracks, the rest of the album is comparatively lightweight and has been rendered almost obsolete by what has come since. I am reluctant to dismiss it because of its historical significance, but I can't really recommend it in good faith either.

Matt Shoemaker: Dre's influence on this album is pretty evident, and it makes it pretty fun to listen to. The West Coast beats have a tendency to make the album sound very dark, and in turn sometimes makes Eminem sound a lot more menacing (see: Guilty Conscience). "Brain Damage" is one of my favorite hip hop songs of all time, and has been ever since my friend and I listened to this album for hours on end when it came out. Even the skip tracks aren't awful on this album.

Ben Czajkowski: We were lucky that he found the "in your face" attitude here that he was missing in Infinite. Thankfully this was his mainstream debut and it allowed us to move towards the rap industry that we see today as well as the Slim Shady/Marshall Mathers that we see today.

Weng Yu: At the time I didn't jump on the Eminem train. To me he was a rapper who used outrageous lyrical content as a gimmick to sell records. I also didn't like "My Name Is", to this day I don't like the beat, and I find it quite annoying. That was also the time when I started to move away from gangsta rap into more jazz oriented hip hop. Regardless, I decided to give it a chance after it sold like crazy, and was pleasantly surprised to find that he was an MC of real quality. I still think it was over hyped, but I can see why.

Joshua George: This album was definitely over-hyped and some would say that the single "My Name Is" was extremely overplayed (I'm one of the some that would say this). Despite the overplaying of the single, and not being able to take a step without hearing it blasting somewhere, I think this album was the homerun that Eminem always hoped he would hit starting from day one in "The Bassmint". I think this was what he had in mind, and I think he took a big step reaching out to specifically young white males and making us feel like if we wanted to rap, we could. Up until this point you don't really consider that there can be a white rapper that can stand as tall as anyone else in the industry... little did we know that people would have to move over and make room for the MC that Eminem would continue to become in his future releases.

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Join us next week when we cover the follow up to The Slim Shady LP - The Marshall Mathers LP