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All Mixed Up 04.13.09: Shame on The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
Posted by Tom Santoro on 04.13.2009





It is about time the voters of the Rock Hall are starting to get it right. After taking 11 years to recognize Black Sabbath as true rock legends, they seem to be making strides to make sure only the best get in when they deserve it. With the first ballot induction of Run DMC and seeing the light on the contributions of Metallica (inexplicably they were not in, in 2008 when they were first eligible), the HOF is now making sense when making its choices.




In 2008 for instance Madonna, John Mellancamp and Leonard Cohen were inducted, while Metallica was left out. It is odd that the nominating committee would think the contributions for inducting Johnny Cougar far outweigh those of Metallica. The only problem I have with Madonna is that she has never been a rock artist, but because there is no Dance Music Hall of Fame, she has to go somewhere. The "Material Girl" has however, made great contributions to the visual aspects of music.

Before we decide, who should be in and who should not let us look at how the process works. Here are the qualifications straight from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's website:


"Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record. Criteria include the influence and significance of the artist's contribution to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll.
The Foundation's nominating committee, composed of rock and roll historians, selects nominees each year in the Performer category. Ballots are then sent to an international voting body of about 1,000 rock experts. Those performers who receive the highest number of votes, and more than 50 percent of the vote, are inducted. The Foundation generally inducts five to seven performers each year."


As you can see the first obstacle is the subjective view given by the so called rock experts. Each year, these experts decide which artists, whose career began 25 years ago, have "contributed to the development and perpetuation of rock an roll." What the heck does that mean? That is a very broad and subjective statement.

The meaning I take away from it, is that a inducted band or artist contributed to get more people to listen to rock and roll. They may have innovated a sound, been part of a movement or were just adored by a large sum of people. The ambiguities of this are large because it makes everyone eligible. The nomination has no special formula where statistics like album sales and tour attendance are the measuring stick. There are no standards as anyone could get in if the right argument is made, you just got to get 501 people to agree you fit within the parameters once you are nominated.

This is why there are artists like The Pretenders who are in the HOF alongside The Beatles, Elvis Presley and The Rolling Stones. The Pretenders are a good band, but is Chrissy Hynde an equal to John Lennon, I think not. What makes John Mellancamp so special? Sure he had a servicable career, but can he be considered a peer to Elvis Presley?

This is where the criteria has its obvious faults. It allows personal tastes, lobbying by labels/artists, the hope for diversity and money to get someone in who may not deserve it.

Personal tastes is a huge component to this. The experts come from different eras of music and will be apt to back bands from his or her era. This means there is a generational gap. There is obviously an entity with in these experts that believe there are more contributions given by 50s/60s doo wop groups such as The Ronettes and Little Anthony and The Imperials than bands such as Rush, Kiss and Black Flag. This is the crux of the whole problem, I think Rush and Kiss fit the criteria better than Little Anthony and the Imperials. I grew up listening to Rush and Kiss and think they are no brainers, while an expert thinks Little Anthony contributed much more.

The evidence is clear, as at least one act has come from this era and this type of music since the rock hall inception. Sure it is because these bands have long been eligible, but can we just accept mediocrity? This means that there is some lobbying going on by old record labels (I read once that the founder of the Rock Hall, Seymour Stein, used to run Sire Records in the 60s, which means he nominates bands he worked with.) One can only assume just like in sports, lobbying by management teams comes into play somehow. It may explain people like Percy Sledge who had only one hit and has long been considered one of the worst Hall of Famers.

There also seems to be a "let's get everybody in mentality." I don't have a huge problem with most doo wop groups getting in, but there has to be standards set somewhere. Every doo wop group can't be influential. Just as I would hope that when all the grunge bands become eligible, the lower end bands would not get in. Allowing The Flamingoes in would be akin to allowing Bush in, for example. Bush was good, but no where near the likes of Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Alice in Chains.

The hope for diversity also is starting to cloud judgement. Just because a rap band is eligible doesn't mean they need to be in. I have no problem with the current inductees of Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five and Run DMC, but I don't think another rap act needs to go in until Public Enemy and N.W.A. are eligible. That means no L.L. Cool J. or Kurtis Blow.

The final problem is the almighty dollar. Every year the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has an indution ceremony that benefits the upkeep of the museum. It is there biggest fund raiser, so tickets must be pushed. Let's face it, people did not go to Cleveland this year to see Little Anthony and the Imperials. They came to see Metallica and Run DMC. So each year it must be considered who will get "top billing." Look at the last few years it is big named artists like Madonna, U2 and REM and Van Halen surrounded by somewhat smaller acts that serve to diversify the bill. This is a very important factor in the nominating process.

Overall, this is a monumental waste of time fretting about who gets a plaque in a museum, but as a music junkie, I take it more serious than most. I have been to the Hall twice and could have spent days there. I was moved when I saw scraps of paper used by John Lennon to write "Imagine". I saw the fabled inflated pig used in Pink Floyd shows. To me it is not just another Hard Rock Café filled with memorabilia, it is history. The history and the exhibits are why I love music and appreciate everything these artists have given me through out my life.

Here are my Top 12 Artists Who Should Be in the Rock Hall of Fame and Why:

All of these bands are or will be eligible in 2010:

1. KISS

REASON: Okay. They have a lot of mediocre songs, but they are unparrelled in the giving you a performance (or selling you toilet paper with their image on it.) Their image was rock and roll, they gave you spectacle as well as music. The baffling thing is they have memorabilia all over the Hall, so why are they not officially in?




2. KRAFTWERK:

REASON: They made computer music accessable to the masses. This opened the door to every band playing in the 1980s. Every synth pop band started by listening to Autobahn. I would say that is pretty influential when you influence an entire decade of musicians. Without them there would be no Depech Mode or Joy Division A hundred of one hit wonders from the 80s. What hurts them is lack of album sales and notriety in the US.



3. HEART:

REASON: The Prentenders are in, so why not place the best damn female fronted rock band in? They blow away The Pretenders and Fleetwood Mac. Nancy Wilson is a great guitar player and Ann Wilson has one of the best voices.



4. CHEAP TRICK:

REASON: Their sound of power pop and metal is clear as day. Flawless. They wrote great pop songs and created the 12 string bass and five necked guitar. They have influenced hundreds of bands some for the good (Green Day/Nirvana). They have a character in Rick Neilsen and in Bun E. Carlos, but are chided for being too pop. Yet, Madonna is in.



5. JOHN COLTRANE:

REASON: Jazz is more rock than rock sometimes. Its complexities make it inaccessable, but if you have Jazz artists in, Coltrane needs to be there.



6. ALICE COOPER:

REASON: A precursor to Kiss (which may be one reason, Kiss is not in yet), they shocked the kids with their shows and their music. The shock value long overshadowed their music, which is why they will never get their due.



7. TOM WAITS:

REASON: He tells a story like Springsteen and Dylan. He has a gravelly, mumbly voice like Bruce and Bob, but he is not in. For God sakes people, the man is a genius, but we will have to wait as Leonard Cohen was just inducted.



8. IRON MAIDEN:
REASON: Um, without Maiden there is no Metallica. Nuff said.



9. RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS:

REASON: They were on the ballot this year, but not inducted. WTF??? This seems to be a no brainer, as they could get in as soon as next year, I assume they were not in this year because Metallica and Run DMC were already big enough. This is my stone cold lead pipe lock for next year. They fused funk, soul, rock, punk and rap all into one cohesive ball.


10. JANET JACKSON:

REASON: If Madonna is in, than the youngest Jackson will join her brothers leaving Rebe and Latoya as the only ones not in. She at times merged rock sounds into her music, so that alone renders her a better option than Madonna.


11. THE SMITHS:

REASON: The Hall is full of Brits and Morrissey and Co. are their biggest missing export (next to Maiden). Their influence on the emo scene is notable, but it may be too early to tell.


12. Weird Al Yankovic:

REASON: While I would not put him on the list ahead of credible musicians who make earnest original material, he deserves a not for "perpetuating rock". He created the parody genre and his talents have given us some great original material.










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Comments (19)

 
Your opinion, of course, is your own and you are entitled to it. However, your philosophy is very flawed. Comparing The Flamingos to Bush neglects the fact that The Flamingos were one of the FIRST and most influential vocal groups, starting shortly before the dawn of rock and roll. The Flamingos were looked up to by every artist in the early days of rock. The group actually helped to shape rock and roll music. Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons, The Temptations, Tavares, Little Anthony & The Imperials, The Supremes and countless others have called The Flamingos one of their PRIMARY inspirations. The criteria you quote for induction is "influence and significance" - there are other accolades in this industry for record sales or attendance.

Posted By: Franklin Pierce (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 01:09 AM

 
 
Let me say this, why has Genesis not been considered? If their career ended when Gabriel left, they would be a major influence on progressive rock. If their career began with Collins, they would be considered a major pop act. I am not talking about the various solo careers, though heaven knows Phil and Pete have a lot of platinum to their names. The only hangup I see is that people may be afraid of a spat, since it it no secret that both Collins and Gabriel want to leave Genesis behind, and that both are mad at the rest of the band for trying to make it with a new lead singer.

Still, to ignore one of the more influential bands out there is a crime, especially since they have more than 25 years. Heck, their first album "From Genesis to Revelation" came out in 1969, and the first Collins led album was in 1975, so both versions of the band have enough time on the road. This is a band that influenced everything from lighting to costumes to production. Think Kiss invented costumes?, see "Watcher of the Skies" on you tube. Think Madonna made big production sets with lighting?, check out the "mama" tour. And neither Kiss nor Madonna was able to fill 500,000 seats in Rome, like they did recently.


Posted By: Guest (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 03:04 AM

 
 
I was confused about the Chili's not getting in this year as well, considering they bridged funk and rock in a way that only Parlament/Phunkadelic had before them.

If KISS gets in before Alice Cooper then the RNRHOF has no credibility (although no one is accusing the hall of having any in the first place.)

Also to say that Kurtis Blow shouldn't be in is misguided to say the least, althgough mainly becuase of the fact that there are too many "fringe artists" that are IN, and Blow would be that borderline act too.

I'm glad that you didn't spin this to the argument that most have by saying something like "(insert act here) is (Insert genre here) not Rock and Roll." Things don't need to be simplified like that, becuase genres are taken too seriously anyway. Run-DMC was just as influentual as Metallica, so why the arguments?


Posted By: The Outcast Legend The Wolf (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 03:35 AM

 
 
I think your main problem with the hall is that the thing isn't properly named. If it were called the hall of popular music, or somesuch, then I don't think there'd be any issue with nominating the likes of Madonna, and bands like Black Flag and Metallica are still pop enough to qualify. Hell, it seems to be how the hall picks it's inductees already.

Now, a few points: the Ronettes belong in the Hall, as much for their association with Phil Spector as anything. 'Be My Baby' is easily one of the best songs of all time, in any genre.

The Pretenders are/were a better band than Heart. They were the better band when Heart was actually good in the 70s, and the far better band when Heart went commercial in the 80s. Chrissie Hynde is a brilliant songwriter, and the only area Heart beats them is in number of records sold.

Kraftwerk, Tom Waits, RHCP, Maiden & Cheap Trick should be in. I'm surprised they're not, in fact. Coltrane going in would open the door to guys like Herbie Hancock, Thelonious Monk, etc, who are awesome, but I dunno if jazz should be in the hall. Pop I don't mind, but jazz is a different animal. Miles Davis at least pioneered jazz rock.

On that note, are Caetano Veloso & Fela Kuti in, because they should be. Different genres, but rock enough to be in there.

KISS I'm torn on. They sold records, but did they actually do anything for music? KISS = the rock version of Barry Manilow. That said, I sing along ever time the chorus of Rock & Roll All Nite comes on, so sure, why not?

And the Smiths shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. They deserve to be in, sure, but it'd be weird seeing a band as British as the Smiths being honored in an American institution. If it got Marr & Morrissey together for a performance I'd be all for it, mind.

If anything, this proves that the UK should put together it's own rock/pop hall of fame. Said hall would kick the US version's ass, naturally.


Posted By: Vordeo (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 06:47 AM

 
 
Here's the main problem with the R&RHoF. Each year they induct at least 3 artists. Once all of the "legendary" bands are inducted (which will happen over the next 5-10 years), there won't be enough worthy bands to support at least 3 inductions per year. That number implies that there are 3 worthy new bands that come out every year, and that's just not the case.

Of course, I agree with some of your ideas and disagree with others as far as who should and should not be in the Hall. I agree that Tom Waits should've been a first ballot inductee, but I think you're missing the boat if you think that Leonard Cohen shouldn't be in. Same with Mellencamp. He wasn't just "serviceable." He was a great songwriter and very influential. I don't think the Chili Peppers should have been inducted as a first-ballot nominee, and I don't really know if they should be in at all. Just my opinion, though.

Anyways, just giving my thoughts. I agree that the Hall needs some major changes to stay relevant, especially as time goes on and there aren't enough worthy bands to put in in the future.


Posted By: Jeff Modzelewski (Registered)  on April 13, 2009 at 07:47 AM

 
 
Rush
Judas Priest
Genesis
Journey
Styx


Posted By: Eric (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 08:45 AM

 
 
@Guest - I considered Genesis, but ultimately they were too progressive in the early 70s and too pop in the 80s. I would put Rush in before Genesis. But eventually they will both get in.

@ Outcast: Kurtis Blow is a great hip hop artist, but he is a fringe artist as you state.

@ Vordeo: The Ronnettes, Phil Spectar is already in, that does not mean that all of his produced acts should be in. I think Heart is a better band than the Pretenders but think both have a place.

The Smiths deserve in. Your reasoning is flawed as most of the greatest bands in the hall Hail from the UK (Beatles, Stones, Who, Pistols, Zepplin, Clash...)

thanks for reading...


Posted By: Tom Santoro (Registered)  on April 13, 2009 at 09:16 AM

 
 
I've been arguing for Rush and Cheap Trick for HOF induction for years. I love Leonard Cohen AND Tom Waits but I'm not sure they are "viable" enough at this point to be voted into the Hall.

There are a few more that should be in.

Motley Crue and/or Bon Jovi

Both helped bring hard rock back after years of disco and skinny ties. Both were multiple platinum artists and then some. You can't get much more decadent than Motley Crue and Bon Jovi launched a look emulated by thousands of singers iwth the slightest bit of hair spray. Both have continued to sell out areans long after their peers died out and became managers of Kinko's.

Joan Jett

Helped to form The Runaways. Along with Pat Benatar (Why the hell isn't SHE in the Hall of Fame either?) led the Girls Kick Ass contingency. Became a huge influence on Riot Grrls and ACTUAL lesbian rockers as well. Hell, Monday Night Football uses her song, and she made Michael J Fox look rocking in a movie.

I also think that Duran Duran should be in there as well. Ignoring their music if you want, the effect they had on teen girls who watched MTV is immeasurable. in 1984, all the girls were either dressed New Romantic (ala Duran or Adam Ant) or Madonna. Though in all the luxury items like boats, fast cars, hot women and such, they were rap videos before there were rap videos. The music was pretty dope too: Snopp Dogg admits to being a huge fan, and the Druan x2 was huge in his school.


Posted By: Krunchy (Registered)  on April 13, 2009 at 09:19 AM

 
 
Megadeth

they didn't sell their souls to the radio(mostly!)(Hi MEtallica)


Posted By: Str8edgeCOOP (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 10:49 AM

 
 
If anyone belongs in the Hall of Fame it should be Kate Bush. Yes, she was never big in the United States but she was a major influence in the alternative rock movement and showed women could successfully write and produce their own work. She inspired the likes of Pat Benetar (who covered a Kate Bush song on one of her earlier albums) a Tori Amos.

Posted By: katefan (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 11:03 AM

 
 
Rush
Judas Priest (Maiden ain't in without them)
Motorhead
Deep Purple
Heart


Posted By: bostononemanarmy (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 11:15 AM

 
 
First of all, it's not Cleveland's Rock Hall -- it's Jann Wenners. He decides on who gets on the ballot and ultimately who gets in.

Secondly, the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Foundation (who puts on the induction every year) is not the same entity as the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame & Museum. One is based in NYC and the other in Cleveland. One is a museum (Cleveland) the other is the governing body (NYC).

But make something clear -- the Foundation gives VERY LITTLE to the Museum's upkeep. The Museum is pretty much self-sufficient in running itself, at this point and the Foundation does very little for it.

You need to understand that there is a pretty big divide between the Museum and the Foundation, which has been there for over 20 years.

Try reading (former Fox writer) Roger Friedman - who covered this in great accurate detail - in many articles. He was really the only one that go it -- that trully understood that the museum in Cleveland had nothing to do with 99% of the decisions of the Foundation in NYC.


Posted By: Not Jann Wenner (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 01:07 PM

 
 
win points for including Kraftwerk, Waits and the Smiths in the should-bes.

lose points for implying Cohen and the Ronettes aren't deserving.

my quick short list of bands where it's all wtf why they aren't in, excluding those already named:

Sonic Youth, New Order and/or Joy Division, Can, Beastie Boys, Eno, Captain Beefheart, The Fall, The Replacements, Gram Parsons, Nilsson, New York Dolls, The Stooges, Love, Nick Cave, Nick Drake, Os Mutantes, Richard Thompson and/or Fairport Convention, Lou Reed, Willie Nelson

I realize some are like 80s bands that just recently became eligible so I'll cut some slack there, but some of those are just unforgivable in my mind. far more deserving than Little Anthony or The Dells, let alone Weird Al and Cheap Trick.


Posted By: thatguy (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 02:06 PM

 
 
Weather you like KISS or not, they influenced musicians we still hear today. That, their live shows, and the fact that they have more gold records than any other American band more than qualifies them. You don't have to agree with everyone in the HOF, but KISS is one that deserves it....so does "Screamin" Jay Hawkins...dude father 75 kids or something like that and never met many of them...that's a rock star!

Posted By: Ace Jones (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 02:23 PM

 
 
Metallica is terrible and does not deserve to go into any Hall of Fame.

Posted By: CharlesBronson (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 03:34 PM

 
 
The Faces deserve to be in the hall more than a lot of bands that are already.

Posted By: Spaghett (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 07:00 PM

 
 
Thin Lizzy?? It's comical that they haven't been inducted. Hall of Fame my ass.

Posted By: Nandy (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 10:37 PM

 
 
How is rush a "no brainer" but doesn't make the list?

Posted By: tom sawyer (Guest)  on April 14, 2009 at 03:55 AM

 
 
The Red Hot Chili Peppers weren't eligible for this year's induction.. they'll be eligible for the first time for next year's ceremony. The website http://www.futurerocklegends.com tracks the eligibility dates.

Posted By: Charles (Guest)  on April 14, 2009 at 05:28 PM

 


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