Please Don't Hate On 07.08.09: Green Day
Posted by Jay Carroll on 07.08.2009
(Almost) 100% Michael Jackson free this week, I tackle America's favorite post-punk band and debut the Triple C section. Oh, and I hope you didn't expect a banner either.
Since I wasn't around to say it last week at the appropriate time, I hope our American readers had a festive and safe 4th of July. England, Allistarand Chris , be jealous. Yesterday was a long day in the music world, for obvious reasons. Aside from the newly minted Triple C (which will be making its maiden appearance later on this week), there will not be any more coverage of Michael Jackson in the Please Don't Hate On column. You know, until I get lazy one week and feel like trying to get a rise out of people by putting a name that guarantees column hits in the tease because I have nothing else to toss out there.
*Looks at this week's tease*
Is it really doing it again if it was the first time? Consult your local virgin for an answer.
Did I mention that what I just said begins… Now?
Let's segue into this week's regularly scheduled piece, shall we?
Still banner free and better than you, I give you the July 8th, 2009 edition of:
Please Don't Hate On: Green Day
Billie, I must say you smell ravishing today...
This week's band has been going strong since 1987, and began in what has been retroactively been named the post-American Hardcore punk era. Along the way, they've racked up 3 Grammy Awards and sold 22 million albums across the world, and have both drawn the adoration and ire of fans everywhere. So are they really the sellouts they have been portrayed to be, or another band suffering from the post-American Hardcore hangover? Is Billie Joe Armstrong the "band's Nazi", as Mike Dirnt and Tre Cool have been quoted as saying? And are the fans the true "American Idiots" for buying into the new sound of Green Day?
Complaint #4: All of their music sounds the same.
Before I launch into a true defense of this complaint, let's stretch some bandwidth with a
couple Youtube videos.
Versus
Besides the obvious, that being that Billie Joe's singing style hasn't really changed (nor should it have), Green Day has definitely gone thru an evolution from simple power chords and playing fast, loud music to more of a mellow sound. Billie Joe doesn't come across as a pissed off kid who just wants to make songs for the fuck of it anymore, he now sounds like what he is, a more polished musician. Their last two albums especially were stylistically different from the rest of their catalog, as American Idiot literally plays as a operatic album with punk esthetics and 21st Century Breakdown follows the same theme, although has better execution due to the band not sounding as angry with the current state of affairs in America. With that said, the majority of their catalog is comprised of songs with fast chords and drums aplenty. Nevertheless, you find a band that doesn't stay in their proverbial wheelhouse when it comes to their sound and I'll find you a band with a diminished fanbase due to not pandering to their original following.
Complaint #3 : Billie Joe is way too controlling of the band to a fault.
Most bands have a structure where the band centers around 1 or 2 members and the others are seen as background filler to a certain extent. The Smashing Pumpkins in particular are an example of how one person's ego can drive them to destroy their own band in an attempt to exert control on the members, and alienate segments of their fanbase in the process. Thanks to Mike Dirnt's ubiquitous quote that Billie Joe Armstrong was "the band's Nazi" and some of the directions that the band has taken; Billie Joe is sometimes painted as a front man who is out for his own personal gain at the expense of the band. Here's the fun part of this equation: the 3 member collective of Green Day has been together since 1990. They also play in a secret band, and an entirely separate band completely from Green Day, among their own side gigs. In short, they have fights just like any other band, but at the end of the day, whether it be the money or joy of playing together, they've been partners for 19 years and counting. Billie Joe is unquestionably the leader of the band, and he writes the vast majority of their songs. Conversely the band has taken on his personality. His delusion with life as a 20 year old is the inspiration behind basket case, for example. His disgust with the George Bush era of the 2000's is what led to the making of American Idiot after their original recordings for Cigarettes and Valentines was stolen. The good of Billie Joe's leadership outshines the bad, and at least he's not on stage yelling at D'Arcy for screwing up a riff on a song that is almost impossible to play live.
Complaint #2 : They have sucked since their first 2 albums.
Green Day's first 2 major label releases Dookie and Insomniac sold 12 million albums altogether, and established Green Day as an MTV and modern rock radio mainstay, back when MTV still played music videos and radio was the definite # 2 method of getting your music listened to by plenty of people. The band was still recording songs with a pop-punk bent, mainly about teenage themes like boredom, getting high, and just being disillusioned with what life had to offer at the time. (Familiar?) With that said, Nimrod's decidedly different sound and singles propelled Green Day away from their original sound while maintaining their original ethos and they haven't looked back since. Most people who write off the band cite Good Riddance (Time of Your Life) as the moment the band "jumped the shark", because of its acoustic guitar sound and misconception as a song of celebration that is heard at high school commencement ceremonies and weddings across America. While this middle period where Green Day experimented with their sound and expanded their ground is generally disliked by most fans outside of their hardcore fanbase, it also helped pave the stage for their later albums and propelled them forward by shining a light on Green Day's happier side, and were actually more critically acclaimed than their earlier works. I'm not going to take the usual music snobbery route and say that these were their best albums, but they were the best constructed of their pre American Idiot days, as they tackled more varied subjects and strayed from the band's sound without going experimentally too far.
Complaint #1 : Green Day ain't punk, and they've been sellouts since 1992.
I'm not going to make much of an argument. Instead, I'm going to let Henry Rollins say how I feel.
As for Green Day not being punk, anytime your biggest detractor from being "punk" is things said by Johnny Rotten, you don't have much to be worried about. Quote: "So there we are fending off all that and it pisses me off that years later a wank outfit like Green Day hop in and nick all that and attach it to themselves. They didn't earn their wings to do that and if they were true punk they wouldn't look anything like they do."
Meh, last time I checked the Sex Pistols were a band that was created by someone who wanted to make a British punk band and knew how to tell the kids involved how to dress and talk.
Hopefully, I've done my part this week to sway your opinion on Green Day. Now what am I forgetting this week?
Carroll's Comment Corner
(User comments in regular font, my responses in bold)
Not bad, not bad at all. Though I'm more indifferent rather than being a hater, you presented some good arguments.
Also... there were rumors that Ciara was a shemale? Seriously?
Posted By: Mr. GE (Guest) on June 24, 2009 at 01:13 AM
The exact rumor about Ciara being a shemale was that that she made an appearance on the Oprah Winfrey show, and announced that she had actually been born a hermaphrodite. It never really got heavy circulation, due to the fact that nobody honestly believed it, but it was a funny story to tell, I guess. Thanks for reading the column, and even if I didn't sway your opinion at least you got some insight on Lady GaGa.
Here comes to smash from the wresling world.I like her!!She is crazysexycool even repo man would like her!!
Posted By: smash (Guest) on June 24, 2009 at 04:37 AM
If Repo Man approves, then you know it's all good.
The only way Lady gaga can prove she is not a he is if she does PLAYBOY...like ASAP
Posted By: Guest#1770 (Guest) on June 24, 2009 at 06:46 AM
Alright, let's start the petition about now-ish.
Welcome to 411! I'm a fan of Lady Gaga I have to confess, she's a good singer, and her songs are pretty edgy in comparison to a lot of the cookie cutter artists out there. At least she sounds different and unique - as soon as you hear her song you can tell its her.
Posted By: Weng (Registered) on June 24, 2009 at 02:26 PM
Thanks Weng. Your comment pretty much summed up my entire article in about 2 sentences. You've managed to make me redundant that quickly, lol.
Do people SERIOUSLY think Lady GaGa is a man? Seriously?
Look at those hips. No way could a man have hips like those. Breasts, buttocks, lips and such can be filled out, and a man can have feminine features and legs, but you can't turn or transplant the pelvis. No adam's apple either.
Posted By: The Tortoise King (Guest) on June 24, 2009 at 03:27 PM
Actually, the easiest way to differentiate between a man and a woman is by looking at the index and middle fingers. A woman's index is longer than her middle, and vice versa with men.
And yes, I have friends that swear she's a man, among other things.
I just don't like her style of music and I just find that style of music beat to death;I think that music like Lady Gaga is just the very bane of my musical existence
Posted By: Str8EdgeCoop (Guest) on June 24, 2009 at 11:12 PM
Nothing wrong with a dissenting opinion. I think that Nickelback sucks ass and is the worst thing Canada has produced since Celiene Dion first started abusing my eardrums. Or Snow, pick your poison. With that said, who knows? One of these columns might be the catalyst that makes you check out an artist or band that you may not have liked much before but find yourself seeing in a new light as a result.
Wow. That is the most amazing column ever! I already liked her a lot so you didnt change my view much but i defentley like her more.
Posted By: Nicole Reese (Guest) on June 25, 2009 at 02:22 PM
Always nice to be appreciated. Thanks for reading Nicole.
And now for a round of last week's Michael Jackson comments. Nothing like a dead celeb to bring out the venom in some people, eh?
Great article. Michael has done so much for the world, through music, through charity etc. Probably more then any other artist out there. Sadly some would rather focus on the BS storys and rumors about him. I guess that is 'human nature'.
Posted By: Guest#4973 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 02:49 AM
I'm glad you enjoyed the article. It is true that some people would rather focus on the negative as opposed to the positive, but that's just how shit goes sometimes.
It's amazing how many people are suddenly slurping Michael's dead weiner. 99.5% of these people were still bashing him two weeks ago.
Posted By: Guest#1535 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 05:02 PM
Micheal bashing is so 2004. Or 1993. Or 2001.I personally haven't done it since I finished laughing at Bam Margera's "Neverland Ranch" joke, as seen here:
Fast forward to the 6:17 mark, if you don't care for Bam and his antics.
geez enough already. isnt this pedophile maggot food yet?
Posted By: Guest#4889 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 06:43 PM
No, my good sir (who remains anonymous), the funeral was just yesterday. Give him about a few years, modern coffins do a damn good job of keeping maggots and other elements out.
You know whats funny? People now love and charish this golish freak of a pedifile. A month ago if you would asked someone about M.J. they would have called him a freak child molester, but now he's dead hes the best person that walked the earth?! Now I know people say that he was never found guilty of fucking kids, but lets face facts, not everyone incarcerated is guilty and sure as hell if you got money you can buy your way out of it. This guy still slept "in bed and admitted it" with little boys. Even though he was never found guilty of fucking them or shelled out millions of dollars to shut people up. I know I know, its not M.J. fault, Its the parents that let their children sleep with the sick fuck. They should of had their kids taken from them as soon as it was reported. M.J. was extreamly talented. You can't take that away from him, but so was O.J. When he dies is he gona be remembered as a great football/movie star that entertained us or murder that got off "found innocent" then thrown in jail years later because hes an animal.
Posted By: Guest#4973 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 02:49 AM
Way to worship celebrities. He could have done even more for the world if he want buying the Beatles
library, collecting animals, and building an amusement park in his backyard. Dont feel bad for people with more money than you...he certainly didnt care about you. Celebrity worship is for losers with no lives.
Nice that all you have to do is die and then you become a saint. What is the incentive to live a normal, good life again?
Posted By: Guest#6713 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 07:47 PM
The cynical bastard in me tends to agree with these arguments, minus the OJ comparisons. (Come on, the evidence was overwhelmingly against OJ) And as for OJ, whatever accomplishments he achieved athletically or as an actor were pretty much wiped away by his trial in '94. My entire point wasn't to paint MJ as this saint, or to wipe his slate completely clean. He did exhibit behavior that wasn't befitting of a celebrity, much less a regular everyday citizen; the point was to let his body actually be placed in the casket and buried before we start piling on the dirt. Also, blind celebrity worship is never a good thing, but there's always that saying about your heroes: They will always let you down in the end.
Michael Jackson molested children. He deserves no praise, no adulation and no amount of "good" he ever did will make up for the hurt he caused even one child. The sooner this coverage of his death ends the better.
Posted By: Mark Radulich (Registered) on July 01, 2009 at 09:21 PM
While I disagree with your other points, I agree that we should ease up on the Michael Jackson coverage. Nonetheless, as long as there is still a demand for it, 411mania.com and the rest of the media at large will satisfy such demand.
I'm a bit confused by all of these posts. Didn't he stand trial before a court of his peers and was found innocent? I suppose the court of public opinion is the only one that really counts huh? All of you stone throwers, stop throwing your stones for just a moment and think about about how easily it would be for your own lives to be turned violently upside down by just one little lie.
Posted By: Guest#8422 (Guest) on July 02, 2009 at 11:40 PM
Whether or not he did anything illegal, he went out of his way to behave in a bizarre, aberrant fashion and lived a lavish lifestyle that wiped out all his money.
The point is, hes not a saint...dont worship him.
And thanks for reminding me that court opinions and juries are always right. I never knew.
Posted By: Guest#7035 (Guest) on July 03, 2009 at 02:24 PM
I'd say my two guests here counterbalanced each other out perfectly here. Although, I'd like to add that the court of public opinion hasn't been used as a real court since the early days of democracy for a reason, that reason being mob mentality tends to stupify a crowd of people and make their judgments harsher and swifter.
I think I've taken up enough of your time for the week. As always, bookmark the site if you haven't already, and remember to follow us on Twitter for news and columns:
Mike Dirnt never called Billie Joe the band's nazi. That came from a Rolling Stone article that says: "Armstrong is the group's natural leader, a quiet take-charge guy, but he mentions in passing that he can see how Dirnt and Cool began to view him as the band's Nazi."
When Dookie came out, and throughout their early career, Billie Joe always insisted that no one member of the band was more important. While that was arguably not true, it is true that the band is the sum of its members and would not be the same without any one member. Tre and Mike have always been important and integral parts of the band.
And as far as American Idiot reflecting only Billie Joe's feelings about politics, that's not accurate either. Mike and Tre are also politically aware and have talked about issues and contributed to causes on their own. All three members came out of the highly political East Bay punk scene and have similar views.
Posted By: green day fan (Guest) on July 09, 2009 at 06:01 AM
If anyone ever goes to see Green Day live, they will see how unique they are as a band. While they have three "faces," the touring band is a heavy part of the shows. Billie Joe's antics on stage are balanced out by Mike's seriousness and Tre's... whatever you'd call it.
Green Day's songs have multiple meanings. Still today American Idiot meshes with 21st Century Breakdown, yet is distinctly different. Complete with adding their old stuff to the mix, you have a music catalog that stretches almost 2 decades. How many bands can say that?
At the Pittsburgh show, Billie had a girl from the audience play the riff for Jesus of Suburbia. Can you see Billy Corgan (as much as I like Smashing Pumpkins) letting a fan play any of his songs?
Green Day might not be 70's punk, but who is to say that is a bad thing. Music evolves, and if you get stuck listening to the same sound over and over again, you really aren't a music fan. You're an era fan. Just my two cents. Good Column.
Posted By: Tony (Guest) on July 25, 2009 at 01:09 AM
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