411 Music Fact Or Fiction 12.20.07: Week 37

Posted by Dan Haggerty on 12.20.2007

Ben Czajkowski and Dan Marsicano take a on the icons of our industry: Should Madonna be in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame? Could Led Zeppelin pull down the biggest tour payday ever? Should Slash front Guitar Hero III? Are the Beatles overrated? All this and more, plus Alice Cooper brings the quote of the week in this edition of Music Fact or Fiction!

We're almost there; another week and 2007 will be in the bag. We're reaching down and shifting into overdrive here in the music zone, determined to end the year with the needle in the red! This week we deliver a lot of current news mixed with icons and conventions, all to separate the truth from the bullshit in the industry. Hey – its music, its news, and we're 411 so you're getting hard edged views.

You know the scoop – Two men enter, breakdown and rebuild the news in the spotlight of truth, all so you can leave with some great views. I'm you host and it's my job to moderate the questions and keep score, even though the score is overrated. That's right; the score is nowhere near as relevant as people say it is - Just like Rolling Stone Magazine.

But today we have two guys who always deliver every time out:

He's your Monday News Columnist, a well versed rant waiting to happen, and a Fact or Fiction alumni who is All You Can't Live Without - Ben Czajkowski! He's opposed by the voice of reason on the net, the eye on the pulse of cutting edge news, and the man not afraid to ask "What The Hell Happened To… - Dan Marsicano!

Today they battle for the hearts and minds of the most important people in the music industry: You!



Round 1!


1. Putting Madonna in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame was the right decision.

Ben Czajkowski: Fact. I was so tempted to immediately label this as fiction, thinking about the Madonna that I hear about on TV today. After some thinking, while I was doing the dishes from my delicious crab cake dinner, I recalled that Madonna used to have class and be an artist worthy of our respect (but more importantly, my own). Yeah, back in the 1980s. Twenty something years ago, Madonna was cutting edge music. How often have you seen people wearing those cone bras or singing "like a virgin, touched for the very first time" in a singles' karaoke bar? Madonna left a lasting impression on the music community before many of you were even born, I'd imagine. I would easily consider her a pioneer not only of the radio music industry, but also of the video industry. From what I know and remember, her music videos really helped popularize the worthless piece of shit MTV is today. Today, she is a fucking joke and everyone knows it. So, I say honor the past and edit out the present. Everyone does it.

Dan Marsicano: Fiction: I think those crab cakes messed with your mind Ben. Listen, I will admit that Madonna did a lot for music, especially in the 1980's, but we all know the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a joke. Cmon, Miles Davis? Grandmaster Flash?! If it was a straight up Music Hall of Fame, then Madonna would definitely deserve a place there, along with the other artists I mentioned. However, there are many other bands that are more deserving of the spot in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Where's Deep Purple, Yes, Rush, KISS, Metallica, or Genesis? These bands should be at least included alongside the Madonna's and John Mellencamp's. I have no problem with Madonna in there, but it's the timing that pisses me off. I would have put Madonna in there in about five to ten years. Anyway, we all know that its no Rock and Roll Hall of Fame without KISS in there. Until they are in there, I won't even recognize the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Score : Hmmm… Crab Cakes…



2. If Led Zeppelin tours, it will be the highest grossing tour ever.

Ben Czajkowski: Fiction. If Led Zeppelin tours, it's not going to be the highest grossing tour ever. It's as simple as that. Now, if Zeppelin hits the pavement and goes on a world wide tour in 2008 or even 2009, then I would probably throw them in the ring for the highest grossing tour for that year. Last November, the Rolling Stones pulled in the mantle for Highest Grossing Tour with over $430 million. It's going to be a tough feat to beat that number. Their newest album, [Mothership] is selling a consistently good amount of albums each week, which means that the band is generating a fan base of old fogies and a newer generation that grew up listening to classic rock. I'll give the band one contention: while their tour would not be the highest ever, it might rank within the top 10. The market being what it is today, I would be hard-pressed to believe anyone could rake in $500-600M to easily set the record.

Dan Marsicano: Fact: However, it all depends on a few circumstances. First, the band would have to go on a world tour and one that actually goes across the world. That includes hitting up a good portion of the United States and being able to spend a solid year touring it up. Now, if all that happened, which is a slim chance, I could possible see them being the highest grossing tour ever. Led Zeppelin is a band that everybody wants to see live again. That could help them rank in the cash. Of course, imagine Zeppelin and Pink Floyd touring together. Now that would be the highest grossing tour ever!


Score : 0 for 2


411Music takes on classic conventions!

3. The Beatles are overrated.

Ben Czajkowski: Fact. How many times am I going to answer this question, in some form or another? YES! They're overrated. Considering that a chunk of the band members are in various forms of decomposition, it astounds me how much publicity and attention corpses can generate. Now, if they were zombies and did a reunion tour, then I'd say they were right on the mark with their fame. Posthumously, though, someone keeps beating their estate to death. Yeah, I'll give that McCartney does a lot of positive work, but in the end, he's just a glorified paparazzi target. Several decades later, it's time we let go of our obsession with these guys and focus on newer, better things: like the Britney Spears vs. Amy Winehouse thing. Yeah, that's news! Or a waste of our time…Oh, Christ, I hate this job. [Thanks for the free pimp'n Ben!]

Dan Marsicano: Fact: Wow, Ben, don't need to get so worked up over the Beatles. I am a huge fan of the Beatles, always have been, always will. That doesn't mean that I don't think they are overrated. As a matter of fact, I am also sick of people getting up their asses. I knew a kid in high school who would talk about the Beatles as if they were some mystical creature or something. He would repeatedly give out useless facts about them, and I really couldn't give a shit about the facts he spilled out. The Beatles were good, they still are good, but c'mon people. They aren't the greatest band of all time. We all know that this distinction goes to Black Sabbath….or Led Zeppelin….or some other band other than the Beatles.

Intermission Score : 1 for 3


OK everyone, you know the words…

" What would you think if I sang out of tune
Would you stand up and walk out on me?
Lend me your ears and I'll sing you a song
And I'll try not to sing out of key
Oh I get by with a little help from my friends
Mm I get high with a little help from my friends
Mm going to try with a little help from my friends"


SWITCH!


Round 2!



4. If you were in charge of Guitar Hero III, you would use Slash as the rock-world icon to represent the game.

Dan Marsicano: Fiction: I'm sorry, but while Slash is well known in the mainstream, he would not be my first choice. I would pick Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, or Tony Iommi over Slash any day. I'm not knocking Slash's accomplishments at all, but imagine facing Jimmy Page in "Whole Lotta Love" or Tony Iommi in "Symptom of the Universe." It would be the greatest boss battle in the history of video games…or at least in Guitar Hero III.

Ben Czajkowski: Fiction. Well, if I am ever looking for a guitar hero and not some washed up wannabe rock star, Slash is not who I would ever turn to. Especially not to be some role model/rock-world icon. When kids see the cover of the game or battle the rock-boss, they're going to think, I aspire to be like this crappy digital image of a toothpick. When I think guitar icon, I am thinking fucking Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Carlos Santana, Frank Zappa, Les Paul, Eddie Van Halen, and hell, just in the spirit of the next question, Ike Turner.


Score : 2 for 4



5. Ike Turner's accomplishments will be overshadowed by his "relationship" with ex-wife Tina Turner.

Dan Marsicano: Fact. I posted the news story on Ike's death and I had to include his "relationship" with Tina. Why? Because the dissolution of that relationship basically caused the end of Ike Turner's career. Ike's life went downhill, plagued by drug and alcohol abuse. No matter what accomplishments he achieved, Ike's abuse to Tina will always be in the shadows. It's like Barry Bonds's home run career, with the steroid use in the minds of baseball fans. Ike's contributions to the beginning of rock and roll will always be overshadowed by his addictions and his abuse to Tine Turner.

Ben Czajkowski: Fact. I don't give a fuck who you are. If you beat your wife, and then wind up a lyric in an Eminem song, you've hit rock bottom. Ike Turner's career is 100% overshadowed by drugs, alcohol, and manhandling Tina. The only people who will remember his great guitar skills will be those people who look at Top Guitarist Lists and go, "I didn't know Ike Turner played the guitar. Hunh…." I expected this man to have died out years ago, so imagine my surprise (or lack there of) when I read the 411Music news post (the best place to get up-to-date information) about Ike's demise. In my heart of hearts, I always wished that Tina would have gone Lorena Bobbitt on this motherfucker, and then killed him.


Score : 3 for 5



Each week we will be giving the Music Zone Staff a chance to directly take on an industry insider, be it musician, producer, or label.

6. Alice Cooper on Ozzy Osbourne - "Most fans thought he lived in a big, dark castle with skeletons in the cellar. When that show aired they knew he was just some guy who potters around his Beverly Hills mansion. It was meant to be some kind of comedy but the audience was laughing at Ozzy, not with him. And as a close friend, that made me very sad."

Dan Marsicano: Fact. A million times over. Remember when Ozzy use to be a badass evil guy? Remember the Ozzy who bit the head off a bat and was being sued for suicidal subliminal messages in his music? Well, thanks to The Osbournes, Ozzy is now known as an old man who nobody can understand. Watching that show made me sad, as my hero, my icon, was reduced to nothing more than a joke. The Osbournes destroyed Ozzy's reputation and changed the way the American public saw the heavy metal god.

Ben Czajkowski: Fact. Wow, this weeks FoF is about washed up rock losers through and through. Another great theme-linked group here, Dan…I don't even know where to begin with this one. It would be way too easy to sit here and tear Ozzy apart and then listen to the crying of the people who read this in their "Black Sabbath" tee-shirts. It's a crying shame, but the reality of this statement is that Ozzy has always been a drugged out, incomprehensible pop icon. Yeah, he was big, dark, and scary, but so were Marilyn Manson and Pee Wee Herman, but how do we feel about them today? We laugh at them. We laugh at all of these people because we have become so desensitized to the thoughts of them. Again, when you hit rock bottom, you look for ways to keep yourself in the mainstream, like doing your own shitty, reality television show about your life and fucked up kids, putting together a crappy album, or making your tour free so people will go and listen to you try to sing like you used to. Ozzy should have burned out long ago; now we can only hope he'll fade away.


Final Score: 4 for 6

2. The success of Britney Spears latest album proves her career is driven by hype over substance.

Mikey MiGo: Fact. Even when she started she was that "slutty teenage girl in a Catholic schoolgirl's outfit". It's just elevated and evolved into a huge media masturbation party. Her music has been disposable pop and now she's just another disposable celebrity. She's taking the path of Anna Nicole Smith and it's a shame.

Jesse Coy: Fact. Pretzels have more substance than potato chips. Potato chips have more substance than cheesy poofs. Cheesy poofs have more substance than Britney Spears. Learn this hierarchy and the world will be aright in your eyes.

And that brings us to the close of another edition of Music's Fact or Fiction. I'd like to thank Ben and Dan for taking time out of their busy schedules to bring some great quotes to the table. Its guys like them, along with you our great readers, that make 411 a great site. Next, I'd like to thank all of the incomprehensible drugged out overrated corpses, who aspire to be a lyric in an Eminem song, for the great material they provide us writers each week. All that leaves is for me, Dan Haggerty , to wish you folks a Merry Christmas.




Merry Christmas!