411Music Fact Or Fiction 2.28.08: Week 47

Posted by Dan Haggerty on 02.28.2008

411’s John Cullen and Morgan Max enter the studio this week to take on the people who make music famous: Would Nirvana be popular today if Kurt Cobain hadn't committed suicide? Does Michael Jackson need to have the sense slapped into him? Is Heather Mills getting the hate because she is divorcing a Beatle? Does P. Diddy plus Hollywood = Money? All that and more, plus the American Idol judges get the spotlight in another Video Fact or Fiction this week!

Welcome back to Wednesday and another exciting edition of the Music Zone's Fact or Fiction: Play us loud and play us proud.

Note to management – That would make a cool T-Shirt.

This week we have two long standing contributors to shake up you music news with their own blend of high-powered opinions. Give it up for the man who contributes music reviews in-between his weekly gig as your MMA News Report, Morgan Max! Not to be outdone, he is met head on by 411 alumni John Cullen!

As for me, I written the questions, moderate the whole shebang, and keep score – Even though the score is pointless filler. That's right; the score is just a pointless piece of filler… Kind of like this monologue.

Oh my God it's a shoot!

Today they battle for the hearts and minds of the forgotten majority in the music industry – You!



Round 1!

Don't laugh Ringo…
I gave her your number.

1. Heather Mills is getting raked over the coals because she is divorcing a Beatle. If she was divorcing any other rich person, everyone's attitudes towards her would be different.

Morgan Marx: Fiction. You mean it's not all aggrieved Wings fans battering Mills? I think McCartney's involvement with the Beatles heightens the attention the story gets, but the real keys are the amount of money involved, Mills' own scandalous past, and the aggressiveness of the UK tabloid press.

Mills hasn't helped her own cause. Her public statements (such as liken her to Princess Diana) have only aggravated things. Had Mills had a better PR manager (or the sense to listen to the PR manager she employed) perhaps things would be different.

The amount of money being thrown about in the press just amplifies the coverage. Add in the sex scandals and the fact that the UK press puts our American celebrity coverage (except that of Britney) to shame, and you get the current media whirlwind. Plus, there's always a hint of sexism involved in stories like this, whether its Anna Nicole Smith or Heather Mills. And whichever aging millionaire Smith was involved with wasn't nearly as beloved as Macca.

John Cullen: Fact. This is one of those weird "half-fact, half-fiction" ones, because I don't believe it's just because Paul is a Beatle, but because it's Paul McCartney. If George Harrison or Ringo Starr went through a huge divorce scandal, I can't see it being such a huge issue, but Paul McCartney and John Lennon both have this mystique about them that transcended JUST being a Beatle, and that tends to lend itself to craziness in the media. The fact of the matter is, Macca tends to come across as such a good guy, and given his "legend" status in the world of music, you can't help but feel like no matter who he gets tangled up with, they're going to get a bad name. Some other rich people no one could give two damns about who they marry or don't, either because they're an asshole(see: Brown, Bobby) or because they marry every second month(see: Lopez, Jennifer) or because they just don't have that "legend" status that makes people stand up and care(see: Witherspoon, Reese), so I think that Heather Mills is getting just that little bit extra as a result.


Score : 0 for 1




2. After Michael Jackson's attitude with the Grammys, someone needs to slap some sense into him.

Morgan Marx: Fiction. Wait, this is the sign that Jackson needs to have some sense slapped into him? Not Bubbles, or the Culkin kid, or the Neverland Ranch, or Captain EO? While Jackson's demands are ridiculous, self-aggrandizing, and completely out of touch with reality, they aren't particularly surprising. I think Jackson's handlers long ago resigned themselves to the fact that getting through to the "King of Pop" (1 down, 29 more to go) is a doomed task.

The interesting thing is that we've been holding onto the memories of Thriller for 25 years. I'm sure that a large part of the public still hopes that Jackson can pull himself together and stop acting like a loon. But odds are that Jackson goes down in flames before he revives anything resembling a successful career. If there were a chance that Jackson could be brought back into the fold, it would have happened long ago. He's a bizarre sideshow now, and beyond help.

John Cullen: Fiction. Gotta agree with Mr. Marx here. First of all, Jackson has been making these types of demands for years. He was a diva before divas were invented(perhaps the term was even coined for him?). Second, all of what Morgan says is true. We should've known around the time we were celebrating the 7.4 year anniversary of Thriller that Michael Jackson needed a life preserver, but somehow, he's been allowed to evolve into this bizarre caricature of himself, where he runs around talking about being friends with the Green Giant and hanging his children(named after household items, I might add) out of hotel windows.

However, the reason that pops most into my mind is that this might be the first time Jackson has actually had some sense in a while, by attacking by far the worst industry awards show out there. The Grammys have been out of touch for years upon years with regards to who actually wins those golden parlophones, putting bands in genre categories they don't belong in, giving awards to mainstream trash(see: Winehouse, Amy), and putting together absolutely ridiculous ceremonies(am I the only one who finds those hologrammed performances completely bizarre and borderline frightening?). I don't blame Jackson one bit for trying to use the Grammys as a publicity vehicle, as that's all they've been for years anyway. What I'm more surprised about is the fact that they didn't actually let him do this stuff. One wonders where Mr. Ehrlich decided the demands were starting to get too high.

Score : 1 for 2



3. Nirvana is only huge today because of the mystique they got from Kurt Cobain's death.

Morgan Marx: Fact. As much as it pains me to agree, there's no doubt that Cobain's life and death overshadow the band's output and musical influence. I think that the interest extends beyond Cobain's suicide; he was a charismatic and intriguing figure before he put a shotgun to his head. But every article that mentions Nirvana, every Wikipedia entry related to the band, will discuss Cobain's death right along with their cultural impact.

I am a huge Nirvana fan, and I've never understood those critics who claim the band wasn't better than their Seattle peers. But bands like Soundgarden, TAD, and the Screaming Trees certainly never got the attention Nirvana received, and a lot of that had to do with Cobain. Even now, Nirvana remains a bigger talking point than even super popular groups like Alice in Chains and Pearl Jam. Cobain's high-profile suicide extended Nirvana to audiences that never cared about Grunge or the alternative movement. The average person probably couldn't pick Layne Staley out of a line-up, but everyone knows Cobain.

That's not to say that the music the group produced wouldn't still be popular on it's own. But you can't listen to a track off the Unplugged album without feeling a bit of a chill and thinking of Cobain's death.

John Cullen: Fiction. I agree with Morgan, to an extent. There is absolutely no doubt that Nirvana gained a certain type of notoriety from Kurt Cobain's death. From the copycat suicides to the multiple movies to the countless articles trying to paint the suicide as a murder(and implicating Courtney Love in most of them), Nirvana definitely got themselves noticed. However, I have a hard time believing that they really made any "new fans" with Cobain's death. The fact is, Nirvana made abrasive music. Cobain's lyrics were offensive(especially back in the early 1990's), his voice was extremely rough, and the music was almost primitive. While there's no question that many casual fans could pick Cobain out of a lineup of similar musicians, are these same people actually buying Nirvana products? Are they the ones shelling out $150 for overrated box sets and even more for countless re-releases?

The answer is no. No one buys Nirvana products as an attempt at becoming part of some "mystique", or because they want a glimpse of Cobain's "tortured soul". Casual fans would rather do that through more conventional methods like documentaries or MTV specials, and those are much cheaper than buying albums or actually investing the time listening to music they don't like. Nirvana had TALENT. Lots. And the reason they remain popular is because so many bands are STILL using Nirvana as a reference point, as a key influence, and Nirvana continue to stay musically relevant as a result.

So is Nirvana ONLY huge because of Kurt Cobain's death? No chance. Does it play a role? Sure, at times, as it justifies the glorification sometimes associated with the band. But there's no denying that Nirvana made great music, which is the ultimate test. Many have died tragic deaths in the music industry, but a tragic death does not always a (posthumous) career make.


Intermission Score : 1 for 3


"I'm worse at what I do best
And for this gift I feel blessed
Our little group has always been
And always will until the end "





SWITCH!








Round 2!





4. P. Diddy in Hollywood is money in the bank.

John Cullen: Fiction. P. Diddy is barely alive in the music industry right now, and is only getting by because of the admittedly sick beats he made for Jay-Z's American Gangster LP. So far, the guy hasn't shown anything that's looked like being a leading man, and let's face facts here: there just isn't a lot of room for black leading men in Hollywood. Very competent actors like Omar Epps, Morris Chestnut, and Mekhi Phifer have all had decent roles in good movies, but haven't been able to go where so few others like Denzel have gone, and I'd guarantee they'd out-act P. Diddy in a second. The one thing P. Diddy does have going for him is his work ethic. From all viewpoints, the man seems to love to work HARD, and that may work in Hollywood, but the warning bells have to go off when he cites "wanting to make love to beautiful women" as one of his reasons for the move. Serious warning bells.

Morgan Marx: Fiction. I don't think his Led Zepp mash-up was gold for Godzilla. I like that John made a thoughtful, well articulated point about the struggles of African-American leading men while overlooking the fact that it's Sean freakin' Combs. I doubt a bunch of young "Making the Band" fans are going to flock to a redo of A Raisin in the Sun. I just love that Combs is putting himself in a category with Sidney Poitier and Danny Glover, who both must be turning in their graves at the thought of Biggie's sidekick playing Walter Lee Younger. What's that you say? Poitier and Glover are still alive? And acting? Hmm, this is awkward…

Score : 2 for 4

Not those Family Jewels!

5. The Gene Simmons' sex tape "controversy" is nothing more than a publicity stunt.

John Cullen: Fact. I hate to be so brief here, but what aspect of Gene Simmons' life is NOT a publicity stunt? I rest my case.

Morgan Marx: Fiction. I'm actually going to go a different way on this. Simmons' has enough public exposure without leaking a sex tape that could only be detrimental to his cause. I can't imagine even die-hard fans want to see a nude Simmons at this point in his life. He's already been on Cribs, he's already had his own reality show along with his wife/notwife, and he was recently on The Apprentice. I don't see how the sex tape fits in. Now, if it were Vinnie Vincent, I would totally buy it as a publicity stunt.

Score : 2 for 5


Time for another Video Fact or Fiction!

6. Its about time Paula Abdul and Randy Jackson showed those American Idols how to make a hit:





John Cullen: Fiction. The only reason? Some of the American Idols have more than proven they know how to make a hit. Carrie Underwood, Kelly Clarkson, the fact that Clay Aiken still has a job, these are all testaments to the power of AI. However, despite the fact that Randy Jackson looks so AWKWARD holding a bass, Paul Abdul can still sing. And still move. And still manage to look hot, and surround herself with good-looking people. The video is solid, you can't really argue with its appeal, and not only that, but they're probably bringing in a much older audience to this new "dance pop" that seems to be all the rage, and you can never argue with that. Actually, you really can never argue with American Idol, because the popularity is always there. But Randy Jackson still looks really, really awkward playing bass.

Morgan Marx: Fiction. I guess we agree because we're both saying fiction, but did John actually like the video? My girlfriend and I couldn't tell whether it was an elaborate rouse to humiliate Paula Abdul. I mean, from the overly synthesized vocals to the stereotypical video elements (the wind machine, etc) it was terrible. At one point are they recreating Washington crossing the Potomac? I don't know. I can't imagine this video ending up as a hit at all. I will say it was slightly better than the Ford music videos the American Idol kids were forced to create last season. Oh, and John's totally right. I'm not sure Randy Jackson was actually playing bass in the video so much as holding it. Was there even a bass line?

Final Score : 3 for 6


I think that's enough trouble for one week. I'd like to thank Morgan and John for participating this week and bringing their great answers. I big thanks to you, the reader, for making Fact or Fiction a part of your day. Finally, I'd like to thank all the over rated male divas who have overtly synthesized vocals while looking awkward holding a bass, all while shamelessly self promote themselves, for making the news and legends that fill this column each week. As for me, I'm out of here, so we'll see you in the The Mosh Pit on Friday and we'll see you back here is seven.