411 Music Fact Or Fiction 04.09.08: Week 52

Posted by Dan Haggerty on 04.09.2008

411's Mitch Michaels and John Nagel are in the studio this week taking on the music you love: Is U2 worth $120 million? Was firing Scott Weiland the right decision for Velvet Revolver’s future? Can Amy Winehouse still deliver musically and become an international super star? Is Motley Crue the original sleaze band that all copy? All this and more, plus still no respect for American Idol in week fifty-two of Fact or Fiction: Music!

Greetings and salutations ladies and generals! This is week fifty-two of the music zone feature extraordinaire Fact or Fiction. The column that dares to put two columnists in the virtual arena and let them rip into your music news, views, and conventions; insuring only the truth you care about is exposed at the end of it all. No one is safe, diva to druggie, pop start to indie elitist, everyone in subject to the terms of what makes 411 the greatest site on the ‘net – Real people with real views. That's you and us baby, and don't you forget it.

This week we have reviewer and writer John Nagel, contributor of fine features like this years Music Hall of Fame. He's joined by our illustrious editor in chief, Mitch Michaels. A man I'm sure you're all familiar with do to his creative imprint Quick ‘n Dirty News - A fine gentleman's column I subscribe to for the articles. *ahem*

As for me, I ask the questions, moderate the show, and keep score – Even if the score is just a bunch of hype with no payoff. And all the Dr. Pepper isn't going to change that fact either. Ouch… that would be a cruel thing to say if it wasn't true.

Enough with the intro – Let's get it on!





Round 1!





1. Live Nation is throwing $120 million away on U2

John Nagle:Fiction. Are you kidding? U2 is one of the only safe bets in a dying music industry. They will always be able to sell a decent amount of records and their concerts sell out in minutes. This is basically license for Live Nation to print money.

Mitch Michaels: Fiction. Gonna have to agree with John here, and simply for this point. In 2006, as the band wrapped touring on their last album How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb, U2 was the highest grossing touring act in the world. They grossed over $250 million in just one year. ONE YEAR. When you throw in the "rock bands never die" factor, that $120 million for 10 years is a bargain for Live Nation. You could question an aging Madonna or Jay-Z, but U2 is the label/promoter's smartest choice thus far.


Score : 1 for 1




2. Firing Scott Weiland was a good move on Velvet Revolver's part that will give the band a new lease on life.

John Nagle: Fact. I'm actually surprised it lasted this long. However, instead of finding a new singer, I think they should just hang it up entirely. Weiland isn't my cup of tea, but he had the right kind of charisma for the band. Since Slash and company refuse to work with anyone that isn't "current," I can't think of a modern rock singer that has the arena filling presence that Weiland has. Josh Todd from Buckcherry would be a decent replacement, but he's too busy with his own band.

Mitch Michaels: Fiction. I think that Scott Weiland had to go, but the way Velvet Revolver went about it is what I don't agree with. Weiland was on the outs with the band anyway, and would've most likely called it quits when he rejoined Stone Temple Pilots, who stand to make a lot of money this summer. Instead, VR rushed things and sent out that snipey public statement, making both parties look like little bitches. Besides, Scott has STP, who does VR have? And don't say Sebastian Bach. Barring the return of anyone not named "Axl", the split with Scott Weiland is the beginning of the end for Velvet Revolver, at least as a commercially viable entity.


Score : 1 for 2




3. Motley Crue is the original sleaze metal band – All others are pale comparisons of the real thing.

John Nagle: Technically Fiction: Man Dan, you opened up a whole can of worms with this question. [That's my job!] I say technically fiction because if you want to get really picky about it (which I do), Hanoi Rocks are the original sleaze metal band. They basically laid the blueprint for hair metal as we know it. Blond androgynous frontman: Check. Sleazy image, makeup and tight spandex: Check. Sleazy guitar riffs and truckloads of attitude: Check. However, Hanoi were unable to cultivate their cult status into mainstream success.

The Crue basically took the blueprint of Hanoi Rocks, gave it a slightly more metallic edge and added some Kiss style theatrics. Because they were located in Los Angeles and not Finland, they were able to generate a healthy buzz. Add MTV into that equation and you have a monster band. When other bands saw Motley, they immediately jumped on the bandwagon. So yes, Motley Crue is the original American sleaze metal band, but they did not invent it.


Mitch Michales: Fiction. Two paragraphs John? Was that necessary? Motley Crue was following a blueprint, but it goes back further than the 80's. As the progenitors of metal, Led Zeppelin can be pegged as the original "hard living" metal band with legendary backstage antics. Two words for you: mud shark. Or is that one word? Anyway, if you want sleaze, you can date that back to the 70's, too, with Aerosmith, who even stole their sleaze from the Rolling Stones. Motley Crue was simply the first band smart enough to write their own book about it.






Intermission Score : 2 for 3


"Tight Action, Rear Traction

So Hot, You Really Blow Me Away

Fast Moving, Wet And Ready

The Time Is Right, So Hold On Tight "





SWITCH!








Round 2!





4. If Amy Winehouse can keep it together, her next album will take her to international mega-star level.

Mitch Michaels: Fiction. Look around, man. You can't visit a gossip site without seeing Amy Winehouse's name and most recent actions, no matter how benign. Not only that, but her music is still all over the radio. Back To Black continues to sell great, especially with the big post-Grammys boost. What does all this mean? Amy Winehouse already IS an international mega-star. So I say fiction, simply based on the inaccuracy of the statement. The question is: can her next album SUSTAIN her stardom? Everyone wants a glimpse into this chick's mind. Seeing as how she was more forthcoming with her personal life than we even though on songs like "Rehab", it's a good bet that she'll mine her new dealings with fame and (even more) drugs to put together some interesting semi-autobiographical songs. Throw in Mark Ronson production work and those two crazy black dancers and I don't think Amy will have any trouble holding up her end.

John Nagle: Fiction Mitch basically said it all, but I think he missed an important point. Does anyone notice the parallels between Alanis Morrissete and Amy Winehouse? Since Back to Black was so huge, I doubt she'll be able to top it. Her next record will probably be her Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie, in the sense that it won't be a failure but will sell significantly less than Back to Black. From there I think the casual fan will drop off, and she'll be left with one of the largest cults in music. Since she is already an international mega-star, there is only one way she can go.


Score : 3 for 4





5. This years American Idol has been one of the best competitions yet.


Mitch Michaels: Fiction. I'm not one of those writers that thinks he's too cool for "American Idol". I don't watch religiously, but I do watch. That said, yes, I think there are a couple of decent singers this year, but it's not nearly the best of the seasons in pure competition. Hell, did anybody see that second Beatles episode? I don't like to use cliches like "rolling in his grave" - and besides, Lennon was cremated - but the whole thing came off as a travesty to me and I fucking hate The Beatles! Nah, this year is all drama over singing quality - like that one kid whose dad is slowly killing him or whatever. I'll have to pick last year as the best for pure competition. Sure, the winner was lackluster (Seriously, Jordan Sparks?), but any season that featured a real innovator like Blake Lewis and Haley Scarnato's legs is on top in my book.

John Nagle: Fiction It's not that I'm too cool for American Idol, it's just that I think it is an evil soul-sucking machine that has been killing music for eight years. It gave us Daughtry for Christ's sake. So I'll have to take Mitch's word for it. I did see part of the second Beatles episode though, and saw some blonde girl completely destroy "Here Comes the Sun." I wept for George.


Score : 4 for 5




6. The new 411Music Zone Podcast kicks nine kinds of ass. Check it out!










Mitch Michaels. Fact. You think I'm fucking biased? Ask any man on the street in any major market in America and they'll tell you. The 411 Music Podcast is sweeping the nation, and the ass tally was at exactly nine last I checked. We kick fat computer nerd ass, we kick skinny goth kid ass, we kick cookie-baking little grandma's ass, we kick cornfed trucker ass, we kick sweet bikini-clad hot Brazilian chick ass (what is it about the chicks in Brazil??), we kick little toddlers in their Osh Koshes ass, we kick your mom's ass, we kick your dad's ass and, most importantly, we kick YOUR ass. So, if you haven't gotten onboard, what are you waiting for? Click that damn button!

John Nagle: Fact. The 411 Music Podcast is the best thing to happen to music since Edison started recording the marches of John Phillips Sousa. Also, every time somebody questions the greatness of the podcast, Ashish kills a puppy. So click the link and save Rex from a horrible death. Seriously, the podcast is really cool. Check it out.


Final Score : 5 for 6

We're going back to Week 23

1. After the negative coverage of the Pearl Jam/AT&T censorship issue, instances of censorship in music should begin to see a decline.

Ben Czajkowski: FICTION. Oh come the fuck on. Some comments were made blah blah blah blah blah. Artists have been using the mic as a podium for as long as they've been on stage. They have a captive audience; might as well take some pot shots at whatever. Sure, it's fun to talk about, but if you're a Pearl Jam fan, you know how Vedder feels about the government. It came as no surprise to me, either, that it was censored. Nowadays, everything is so fucking PC (except this column). You can't offend anyone and you always gotta be careful in what you say. When they start taking Parental Warning labels off CDs and when the FCC dissolves, that's when you'll see a decline in censorship.

Well there you have it. As always, a big thanks goes out to John and Mitch for their great answers this week. I'm sure they'll inspire you to hit the comments section below with your thoughts. I'd also like to thank you for stopping in and making Fact or Fiction a part of your day. 411 rocks because you make it so. As for me, I'm out of here. I'll see you this Friday in the The Mosh Pit and we'll see you back here is seven.