Ask 411 Music 05.08.08 The Mother's Day Edition

Posted by Blake Lauderback on 05.08.2008

This week's session covers everything from the hatching of The Eagles, the dual faces of Zwan, Nu Metal favs, Creedence's spot in history, and the top chick rockers of all time. Peter Frampton reads Ask 411, shouldn't you?


Hello ladies and gents! It is that time of the week again. Time for you to tune in and relax while I slowly pump your head with useless facts that you will store away deep in your mind, so that one day, when you ar listening to the radio with your buds you can say something to the effect of:

"Hey man, did you know that Charles Manson was buddies with the drummer from The Beach Boys and that he took the name of his book from a Beatles' song? Wait a minute… why the hell do I know that?!?" (If you DIDN'T already know that… check it out here.)

That is what we are going for here folks. A deep seeded knowledge of all of the inner workings and bizarre facts of the music we all love and cherish in hopes that someday you will be able to shock even yourself with your brilliance. If that doesn't work for you, you can just irritate those around you by being a know-it-all. Whatever floats your proverbial boat.

With that said, this is a special Mother's Day edition since said holiday is this coming Sunday, so I threw in a few things for mom today. In case you haven't realized that until this very moment, don't forget to do something special for the mom's in your life.

To all of the new husbands out there, here is a little bit of advice that I wish someone had shared with me. As a husband you are required to purchase some sort of Mother's Day memento for your wife even if there are no kids involved. No one shared this little gem with me until the night before which left me scrambling to not look like an idiot.

While we are on the subject of this glorious holiday I would like to make a plea to the masses. I manage a restaurant, which means that Mom's Day is one of, if not the craziest day of the calendar year for me. For some reason, 80-some-odd% of the American public decides to go out to eat on the holiday, which is totally cool. We appreciate the business. However, if everyone would conduct himself or herself in such a way to make their mother proud (which is a brilliant, free gift to give her on her day.) everything would run much smoother. There is no need to verbally assault the wait staff or anyone else (me) if someone forgot to bring you an extra side of ranch dressing.

Last week saw a lot of responses for my list of the Top 7 Overrated Guitar Players, but to my shock, most of them were in agreement! While a few of you did step up in defense of U2's The Edge, (and quite kindly by the way, which is always cool.) not only did no one stand up for Kurt Cobain and Jack White, but most of you threw them under the bus. While I was simply stating that Kurt and Jack are given too much credit for their abilities while still being talent musicians, it seems that a few of you out there hate them personally. After all, it is not their fault that the world gives them too much credit.. I don't remember seeing either of the campaign for the attention.

Speaking of campaigning, is anyone else tired of hearing about "Super delegates?" I know that it is ridiculous, but every time I hear or see that word I think of men in business suits with capes and their underwear on the outside of their slacks. While stupid, at least it keeps me entertained, right?

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As my loyal readers may remember from last week, I used this section of the column to run down a few of the subtle references and fascinating facts from the Cameron Crowe film, "Almost Famous." I covered some details about which character is supposed to represent whom in real life, we touched on which stories are based in actual events that have happened to Crowe, and we spent a little time focusing in on the music itself.

I received the following email a few days after posting my column. This letter refuted a little of what I said, elaborated on some of my points, and also shined a light on some other people that deserved credit that are often overlooked. Let's just say that I have never been so happy about being corrected.

Dear Blake,

First of all I agree with you that Cameron's movie is one of the best rock movies ever! I was thrilled to be involved as we have been friends for _ _ years now and he's brilliant!!

So, I would like to give you a corrected update on, "Almost Famous".

I have to let you know that there are (pieces of) two songs performed in the movie that I wrote with, Gordon Kennedy and Wayne Kirkpatrick (who also wrote "Change The World" with Tommy Simms for Eric & Baby Face). The two songs were, "You Had To Be There" and "Hour Of Need" which also was on my "Now" cd.

The sessions for these were done in Seattle with the same band that played on Nancy and Cameron's tracks. It was great to play on a session with Nancy. She is an incredible musician/writer/singer and I have always
been a huge fan so this was a real delight to do. Mike McCreedy and I met during this period and that led to him and Matt Cameron (PJ drummer) playing on two tracks of my Grammy Award winning instrumental cd, "Fingerprints".

One more thing, I played "Reg" - Humble Pie's road manager and not a member of the band.

I was also one of two people who worked with Billy Crudup teaching him the solos. Russell was more like a combo of Jimmy Page and Paul Kossoff from Free but I'm sure there were others in his mind too. We watched a ton of Free and Zep videos anyway.

Love your blog,

Sincerely,
Peter Frampton

Let me start of by expressing a few thoughts about this.

Number one, Peter Frampton reads my column. That is freaking awesome and you cannot convince me otherwise.

Number two, and probably more importantly, we now have the correct information about the film.

The thing that really blows me away about this letter other than how extremely friendly and courteous Mr. Frampton was, is that when this film was made, somewhere up in Seattle, there was a room that held within it's walls the unusual yet brilliant combination of musicians listed above. As a musician myself I have a difficult time wrapping my head around a collaboration between Peter Frampton, Mike McCreedy, Matt Cameron (both from Pearl Jam), and Nancy Wilson (of Heart). What a group to have working alongside each other.

Now I just have to figure out a way to link myself to Frampton from a marketing standpoint.

Maybe I should try to locate a picture of him pointing at the camera and make posters of it bearing the caption, "Peter Frampton Wants You! (To read Ask 411 Music.) For those of you that are visual learners, or maybe just running a little slow today, that would make it a rip off of the Uncle Sam poster. It is no fun when I have to explain the jokes to you.

Better still, I should make W.W.F.D. bracelets for "What would Frampton Do?"

All joking aside, it was an extreme honor to hear from a rock and roll legend such as Mr. Frampton, and here's hoping that he keeps passing along his feedback. Let me again say thank you to Mr. Peter Frampton for passing along the correct information as well as being the consummate professional and all around nice guy.

In honor of all of this, next week we'll be taking a look at the history of Peter and his contributions to the music world, including a break down of my personal favorites from his catalogue. And before you say it, this is not preferential treatment just for him. I would glady do the same for any and all rock stars that want to send me their thoughts.

Now it is time to get down to business.

Class is in Session

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"Lady Madonna, children at your feet, wonder how you manage to make ends meet. / Who finds the money when you pay the rent? / Did you think that money was heaven sent?

Friday night arrives without a suitcase. Sunday morning creeping like nun. Monday's child has learned to tie his bootlace. See how they'll run.

Lady Madonna, baby at your breast, wonder how you manage to feed the rest." – Lady Madonna

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Q: We're not worthy! You really do know a lot of shit don't you?

First off, thank you for saying that Jack White is overrated. I try to tell people that and people look at me like i just pissed on Jesus.

My question is actually two parts, as i really want to snake on the knowledge you are so graciously passing out.

1) Nu Metal: a genre about Carbon Copying! It's no secret that all these bands sound the same. Who stands out to you?

2) I hold the VH1 100 greatest hard rock bands of all time in high regard. I have noticed a few holes in it.
a) Rolling Stones slipped to #69
b) Meat Loaf is on there, but The Beatles are not. I know The Beatles aren't hard rock, but neither is Meat Loaf
c) and most importantly where the FUCK is Creedence Clearwater Revival!!!

I guess what my question is, where does Creedence rest on your list of top bands of all time? I really just need to hear some love for them in this dire time.

Thanks for the Knowledge,
- Steveo

P.S. Where is Santana on your list?

A: Wow, and people say it is hard to get your question in the column. You throw in a few very well placed compliments and you see where it gets you? Right at the front of the line folks, that's where. Now lets get to work on your multipart question.

Nu-Metal is, as you have mentioned, a genre of copycats for the most part, but I think that you can trace the genre back to Faith No More in the 90's, as many different bands in Nu Metal have cited them as a major influence.

As far as my personal picks in the genre, I would have to say that I believe that Korn has a very distinct style, and while I haven't really enjoyed their more recent work, I am a fan of the older records.

Another personal fav is P.O.D. I started in on them a few years back when their Fundamental Elements of Southtown album came out. I think they do a really good job of mixing the standards of Nu Metal, hard rock and rap, with a little Reggae flavor.

My least favorite out of the lot has to be Linkin Park, as I have no idea what makes them so freaking appealing. Yes, they do rock and rap both… but they aren't very good at either. Just my opinion though, and obviously not that of the millions that have bought their "music."

I also believe that while for the most part, Vh1 got the 100 Greatest Hard Rock Artists list correct (I can't argue with a Top 5 that featured Zeppelin, Sabbath, Hendrix, AC/DC, and Metallica.) they did make a few mistakes, which is admittedly unavoidable with such a list.

I have always thought that perhaps this list was designed to answer a lot of complaints from ignorant people that complained about the 100 Greatest Rock Artists list being populated too much by acts like The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, and Elvis Pressley, and not enough current artists. Ironically, the top five is populated entirely of acts that have been around at least twenty years.

In my opinion, if you are going to include The Stones, you have to put them up much higher than #67. If you want to say that they are not hard rock, that is fine. I can understand that call, but don't insult them by making it appear as you think of them as inferior to The Scorpions and The Rollins Band. It just makes the writers look moronic.

At the same time, if you are going to include The Rolling Stones on the list because of their influence on hard rock, I don't see how you can deny The Beatles and Creedence Clearwater Revival the same credit. Both of those bands at least made an equal contribution when compared to that of The Stones.

Other complaints include The Sex Pistols being at #12 ahead of bands like Pink Floyd, Rush, The Doors, Queen, Pearl Jam, and Iron Maiden. How the hell do you figure that? Oh, and for the record, they placed Spinal Tap at #75 ahead of the likes of Yes, King Crimson, The Black Crowes, and Tool. That's right, someone decided that they should rank Spinal Tap, a primarily fictitious band, over Tool for their contributions to the world of hard rock. I am surprised that Tool fans didn't burn down the VH1 studios.

I think it is a shame that Creedence is often forgotten about when it comes to the greatest bands conversation. The Fogertys made a massive contribution to rock scene of the course of several decades. The thing that amazes me is that everyone knows the songs. You can start playing "Proud Mary" or "Fortunate Son" out in the streets and I bet at least eight out of ten people would recognize the songs and probably know the words, but ask the same ten people if they know who Creedence is and I bet you would get a much different, and slightly depressing, result. In thinking about where I would personally ranking them in history, I would say that at the very least they would be in the top twenty of all time, possibly even higher. I will have to meditate on that one for a while. Sometimes picking bands is like picking favorites out of your children.

Carlos Santana is an interesting phenomenon. He as found so much success throughout his career without ever really singing or speaking much. He is a brilliant musician without a doubt, but I think he may receive more credit than he deserves as a guitar player since he is really the first to bring the latin guitar sound to rock and roll. I am sure there are many latin guitar players that are more talented, but none that have made an impact on American music quite like Santana. He definitely makes the list for great rock acts, but I would still place him below Creedence Clearwater Revival.



What is the story behind Billy Corgan's band Zwan? Did he work on this as a side project at the same time he worked with Smashing Pumpkins, or was it supposed to replace them? I also heard that they were a Christian band, which is fine, but seems kind of weird for Corgan. – Lauren R.

A: Zwan was actually a follow up to the Smashing Pumpkins and was a super group of sorts, made up of Corgan, drummer Jimmy Chamberlin (also of the Pumpkins), Matt Sweeney (of Chavez), David Pajo (of Slint), and shortly thereafter, Paz Lenchatin (of A Perfect Circle).

There are really two different incarnations of the band Zwan. The first is referred to as The Poets of Zwan, and released their only CD, Mary Star of the Sea. This was the more rock centered of the two identities. The flip side to the coin is what they referred to as Djali Zwan, which was primarily an acoustic set up. Corgan used this version to pull in some of the songs he wrote for the last Smashing Pumpkins album that had never seen the light of day. Djali Zwan was rooted in more traditional forms of music including gospel and folk.

The experiment was short lived, as the band began to split apart shortly after their only album's release. As often happens, the divorce was messy with lots of insults being lobbed at one another. Thankfully though, order was restored to the world and Corgan and Chamberlin returned to revive The Smashing Pumpkins.

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This week's list…(Insert mental drum roll here)

The Top 7 Women in Rock and Roll

7.Aretha Franklin (Solo Artist) – Ms. Franklin is the "Queen of Soul" without a shadow of a doubt. She has twenty plus Grammys to prove it to you. After getting her start singing in a church where her father was the pastor, Aretha broke onto the R&B scene in the 1950's and she never looked back, earning a lot of respect (pun most definitely intended) along the way. While she is the most gifted vocalist on this list, she is number 7 because she is also the least rock oriented, though she certainly dabbled in a little rock. In fact, she released "Let it Be" before The Beatles themselves since the album of the same name had been sitting on a shelf for a while.

6. Grace Slick (The Great Society, Jefferson Airplane, Jefferson Starship, Starship, Solo Artist) – Grace changed the sound of the 1960's with Jefferson Airplane even though their arguably to biggest hits were songs that Slick "brought" from her former band, The Great Society. Those two tracks, "White Rabbit" and "Somebody to Love" made Jefferson Airplane one of the biggest acts in the world during the summer of love. She had a solid solo career amidst her off and on membership with Jefferson Airplane/Starship that was unraveled by her addictions. She is still a legend in the industry, even if she was a member of "Starship" that curse us with "We Built This City" and their other cheesy 80's work.

5. Stevie Nicks (Fleetwood Mac, Solo Artist)– I did mention that I am not the biggest Fleetwood Mac fan last week, and I stand by that. However, much like the next name one the list, there is no denying her influence on rock and roll music and the role of women in the genre. More than just a pretty face, she contributed a great deal to the song writing for both the band and her own solo work.

4. Madonna (Solo Artist) – Am I fan of her music? Not really, though my wife is. (I told you that we don't always see eye-to-eye on music didn't I?) Despite her music not fitting into my personal taste, there is no denying her rock star status. She has reinvented herself so many times that not even Aerosmith can keep up anymore, and she always in on the forefront of her craft with her poppy, yet creative sounds. She played a major role in changing the image of the female pop/rock star, for better or for worse.

3. Tina Turner – If Franklin is the "Queen of Soul," then Turner has to be the "Queen of Rock and Roll" with her career that spans nearly a half century. Known early on as an amazing live performer alongside Ike Turner, she turned heads with her performance on the song "A Fool in Love." Soon after, Ike and Tina were married, leading to what would be one of the most controversial marriages in the annals of rock. Despite the messy end to their marriage, the act should be heralded for it's amazing work that included covers of songs by The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, and what would become Tina's signature song, Creedence Clearwater Revival's "Proud Mary."

2. Janis Joplin (Big Brother and the Holding Company, Full Tilt Boogie Band, Kozmic Blues Band, Solo Artist) – These days she is more likely to be known because of her membership in the "27 Club," the group of legendary musicians that all died around the same time when they were 27 years of age. (The other two members being Jimi Hendrix and Jim Morrison.) Nonetheless, Janis' unique vocal style changed the standard for the female rock vocalist. Before her death she was heralded as the new face for women in rock as she held her own with the big boys. Unfortunately, like the other two members in her "club," Joplin's vices caused her to leave us before her time.

1. Ann & Nancy Wilson (Heart) – Heart has had a revolving door of musicians through the years, but the only constants are Ann & Nancy Wilson. The girls got their start by playing as a Led Zeppelin cover band. In fact, they were supposedly so good at it that several members of Zeppelin claimed that their cover versions were personal favorites. Heart exploded on the scene with their debut, Dreamboat Annie in 1976 that featured the songs "Crazy on You" and "Magic Man." Since then the girls have been churning out fantastic, hard rocking music, proving once and for all that girls can rock just as hard as the boys.

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Forgotten Classic

In honor of Mother's Day, I submit to you our Forgotten Classic of the week, No More Tears by the Princess of Darkness, Ozzy Osbourne. What does an album by a heavy metal legend have to do with celebrating the contributions of mothers you ask? It includes the hit ballad "Mama I'm Coming Home," which, along with several other tracks on the record, was co-written by Lemmy Kilmeister of Motorhead fame. (If you think that is a rough transition, you are not alone. My wife wasn't buying it either.) The albums also features the tracks "No More Tears" and "I Don't Want to Change the World, and is still considered to be one of the Ozzman's best solo efforts after the passing of his writing partner and guitar virtuoso, Randy Rhodes.

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Q: Hey man. Enjoy your work and all that. Anyway, I am just getting in to classic rock and I have a question for you. What is the reason that some classic rock bands just went by everyone's name like Crosby, Stills, and Nash and Emerson, Lake, and Palmer? Was it just a lack of band name creativity? It just seems like they got lazy. What do you think? – Thomas P.

A: Thanks bud. It is always good to know that there are new people turning towards the light and enjoying some of the great rock and roll of the past.

The thing you have to remember about the two bands that you mentioned, is that they were both considered to be "Super groups" since every member had already found success with another band or two.

Crosby, Stills, and Nash - David Crosby had been dismissed from The Byrds in fall of 1967, while the band Buffalo Springfield, featuring Stephen Stills, began falling apart altogether around the same time. Crosby and Stills began jamming together shortly thereafter. Graham Nash we still a member of the band The Hollies at that point but had gotten to know the other two around the music scene. After joining in on a jam session at a party, Nash decided to jump on the bandwagon with the other two, leaving The Hollies behind, whom he was frustrated with creatively anyway.

After working together for a little while, the band decided that they would like to add a keyboard player to the mix. The band initially tried to rope in Steve Winwood of Traffic, but he politely declined. One of their record execs suggested Neil Young, to which the band responded negatively at first since Stills had worked with him before in the now defunct Buffalo Springfield, and Nash was uneasy working with him since he did not know him at all. After some deliberation the band decided to bring him on board and they soon played their first gig. More notably, their second gig together was Woodstock. The band decided to keep the theme going and refered to themselves as Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young, which, had it not worked as a band could have been a hell of a law firm.

Young was always in and out of the band, which he was contractually allowed to do. As often happened, the band reached a point where there were too many chefs in the kitchen as each man began doing and writing his own thing.

Emerson, Lake, and Palmer - The band started when the bands The Nice and King Crimson began playing a few dates together in 1968. Keith Emerson and Greg Lake began collaborating and decided that their styles meshed very well together. They began a search for a drummer, and after being rejected by Mitch Mitchell of The Jimi Hendrix Experience, settled on Carl Palmer, who had made a name for himself with The Crazy World of Arthur Brown and Atomic Rooster. As we have discussed before, Jimi Hendrix was supposed to jam with the other three, but passed away before being able to do so. For more info on that, check it out here.

As you can see, both of these bands were made up of already established musicians, so I personally think that it was brilliant marketing to include the names of all of the members in order to capitalize on their fame on their way to finding success with their new acts.

Q: What is the story behind the origin of The Eagles? I could have sworn that I heard that they started off by backing up some other musician, but I just cannot remember who it was? Any ideas? – Kris M.

A: Yes sir, I do have an idea. The Eagles were initially brought together to be a backing band for vocalist Linda Ronstadt. The members of that pre-Eagles band were Bernie Leadon, Randy Meisner, Glen Frey, and Don Henley. After fulfilling their duties as Ronstadt's band, she encouraged them to break out on their own as a band. The guys obviously did, naming themselves The Eagles as a tribute to The Byrds, and releasing their first album, Eagles, that featured their first hit single, "Take it Easy." The album was very heavy on the country side and a lot lighter on the rock when compared to their later work.

Their follow up album, Desperado showcased the first combined efforts or Don Henley and Glen Frey. The concept album was designed to draw comparisons between the lifestyles of old west outlaws and modern day rock stars. This would start a pattern as the band became led by primarily by Henley and Frey instead of the original set up that was led by Leadon and Meisner.

My favorite era of The Eagles didn't really kick off until 1975, shortly after the release One of These Nights and before the subsequent tour. It was at that point that Leadon, who was upset that the band was steering away from their country roots, decided to call it quits by pouring a beer over Glen Frey's head. The band then turned to Joe Walsh who was already a star with The James Gang, Barnstorm, and his solo material. I personally enjoy "Walsh-era" Eagles the most, as he gives them a little bit more of a rocking edge. Apparently I am not alone, as their next album, Hotel California would be one of their most successful.

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This week's drop of band name knowledge is…

Deep Purple - This hard rock band from England was originally to be called Roundabout, supposedly because they were going to rotate instruments during the show. The original lineup that featured John Lord, Richie Blackmore, Nick Simper, Rod Evans, and Ian Paice, decided that they were better off sticking to their roles after all, and they band decided to change their name. When the band struggled to come up with anything, Blackmore suggested Deep Purple, which was the name of his grandmother's favorite song and originally composed by Peter de Rose and Mitchell Parish. The name change was a success as the band went on to be one of the most successful hard rock acts of the 1970's.

See you all back here next week… and send me some freaking questions.

Class Dismissed.