Ask 411 Music 05.15.08: Tale of a 1,000 Band Members

Posted by Blake Lauderback on 05.15.2008

It is time for another week of Ask 411 Music. This time we are looking at the many (many, many) faces of Sabbath, hostile relations between metal gods, misquoted Latin names, and naked ladies for kids. Plus, a look at the early career of Peter Frampton.


It is that time of the week again everyone. Time to spend a little time meditating on the good word of rock and roll so that we might better our knowledge of this great art form. I am your host as always, and if you have never joined us before, pay close attention… there will be a test on all of this later.

I enjoyed hearing from all of you that dropped me a line last week. To be honest, I was quite worried that you all would be indifferent on last week's list of the Top 7 Women in rock, but to my surprise, you all were pretty into it. Several of you were quite passionate with your suggestions (Some of which I agree with, others… not so much).

I think our main difference in opinion came when everyone was all about the women of the 80's. I won't knock any of the names you threw out, because they are all talented in their own right, but I will say that I often overlook the 80's since I firmly believe it to be the dark ages of rock and roll with at least 80% of the music produced in the ten year period being total crap. I do love some of the acts from that decade, but as for the rest… the less said the better.

All in all I think it is a great thing for you all to stand up and fight for the queens of rock and roll that have stolen your heart.

There was also a handful of you that chimed in with some love for Creedence Clearwater Revival, which is great, and Tool fans did exactly as I suspected and angrily ripped Rolling Stone for slighting their band.

In other news from last week, Frampton fans rejoiced, Nu Metal, and more specifically Linkin Park fans, hate my guts, and everyone seems quite confused about the whole Billy Corgan and Zwan thing.

If you notice a slight theme to this week's column, you are correct. That theme would be money. Why money you ask? Well, because I am quite hacked off with the American government and their pesky stimulus checks. To begin with let me say that I do not intend to be ungrateful by any means. I know that the government is attempting to be nice/trying to stimulate the economy. However I do have another beef with them.

My wife and I file together and we use Turbo Tax to do so. We also have our refund direct deposited into our account. On all of the reports we have seen it mentions that all of the direct deposit checks would go out first over the past two weeks. So, knowing that we had a little extra cash headed our way, we committed to going to visit my wife's family four states away.

Apparently, our direct deposit isn't good enough since we went through a "third party," in this case, Turbo Tax. What does this all mean? It means that instead of a nice little two-hour plane ride to and from our visit, we will now be making the twelve hour drive with both small kids in the car in efforts to make the trip slightly more affordable. Emphasis on the "slightly" since that doesn't work that well either since gas is like $42 dollars a gallon, or whatever it is.

Basically I am just saying that the government could have at least let us know that this was going to be an issue, and I know I am not alone since I have spoken to quite a few other people here in my neck of the woods with the same problem.

As promised, we are kicking off this week's edition with a profile and history of one Peter Frampton, so all of you that are up on your Frampton knowledge, feel free to skip down to the questions. For the rest of you… take a seat and open your books to April 22, 1950.

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Peter Frampton:
It was on the date, April 22, 1950, that one Peter Frampton entered the world. It is said that he came out already knowing three or four chords on the guitar already. Okay, maybe not, but he was certainly destined for success.

Skipping ahead a few years, Peter's first involvement in music came in the form of a banjolele, which is essentially a banjo shaped ukulele. He taught himself to play, and soon there after he taught himself the piano and guitar as well.

When he was ten years old he began playing in bands and spent some time working with the lead singer of another band, fellow classmate David Jones. You most likely would know him better by his stage name, David Bowie.

He played in several other bands in his teens including The Truebeats, The Preachers, and The Herd. In 1969 he teamed up with Steve Marriott of The Small Faces to form the band Humble Pie at the ripe old age of 18.

Humble Pie afforded Peter the opportunity to break free of the teenybopper image that he had attached to him due to his time with the pop radio friendly The Herd. He did so successfully with the band's debut album As Safe as Yesterday Is that featured the single "Natural Born Bugie." Many claim that this is the world's first album to be branded by the term "Heavy Metal." The phrase was used in Rolling Stone by journalist Mike Saunders. While still on the road in support of their debut, the band released a sophomore effort entitled Town and Country, which was a commercial bomb compared to their massive debut. The album is filled a great deal more with acoustic songs as the band diverted from their original sound.



During his time with Humble Pie, Peter continued to do session work, including work with Harry Nilson, Jerry Lee Lewis, Jim Price, and The Who's John Entwistle. He also played on George Harrison's classic album All Things Must Pass, which is credited as his first time showing of the effect that he would make famous, the talk box.

In the winter of 1970, the band's first record label, Immediate, went belly up. The band soon found themselves on board with A&M Records. The new band management decided that there was a larger piece of pie to be had on the American market, so the band shifted almost all of their attention to this side of the pond rather than their native Britain. The new manager also decided that it was in the band's best interest to ditch the acoustic stuff and just blow the doors off of everyone with their hard rock material. They also thought it best for Marriott to take more of the spotlight, which, while it was a successful move in the short term, ended up hurting the band as Frampton began to lose confidence and his sense of self in the shuffle.

Early 1971 saw the band release their most successful album to date, Rock On. The subsequent tour featured an outstanding live show that was recorded for posterity known as Performance Rockin' the Fillmore. The albums, both the studio and the live, were certified gold on the back of the hit single "I Don't Need No Doctor."



Shortly after the success came rolling in from those two albums, Peter decided it was time for him to move on, and then did so, leaving the band and embarking on a solo career.

TO BE CONTINUED…
Join us next week for Part 2 of "The Life and Times of Peter Frampton."

Class is in Session

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"You never give me your money / you only give me your funny paper / And in the middle of negotiations you break down

I never give you my number / I only give you my situation / And in the middle of investigation I break down.

Out of college money spent / See no future pay no rent. / All the money's gone, nowhere to go.

Any Jobber got the sack, / Monday morning turning back. / Yellow lorry slow, nowhere to go. / But oh that magic feeling, nowhere to go. / One sweet dream

Pick up the bags and get in the limousine. / Soon we'll be away from here. / Step on the gas and wipe that tear away,

One sweet dream came true today, came true today. / One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, / All good children go to heaven." – You Never Give Me Your Money

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Q: What is your opinion on the band Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show? I think they are one of the most over-looked and under-appreciated bands in rock n roll. If you aren't too familiar with them, I recommend checkin out these youtube vids...

"Get My Rocks Off"

"Carry Me, Carrie"

"The Millionaire"

"When You're In Love With a Beautiful Woman"

Thanks Man,

- Jasper J.

PS: Love the column! Keep up the great work!

A: Thanks Jasper. My thoughts on Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show… that is a tough one. These guys are a little bit of an anomaly in the music world. Some would call them southern rock, some call them pop-country, and in the 70's that had a little bit of disco mixed it. One thing is certain; these guys are talented musicians that have managed to have a very long career by industry standards, despite never really being considered a top act on the scene.

My personal favorite of the band would also be one of their more successful singles, "Cover of Rolling Stone" which is a great, sarcastic look at rock stardom in the 1970's. One of the unusual things about the band is their friendship and constant collaboration with author Shel Silverstein.
I highly recommend everyone checking out the links that Jasper provided and getting more familiar with the band. Odds are you will either love them for the uniqueness or hate them for the same reason.

These guys are most certainly an overlooked band these days as they are completely overshadowed by some of the larger names in classic rock. Here's hoping that this will spark a little interest in them and that a new generation will latch on to their quirkiness.



Q: Here's a trivia question for you---always brings up some good debate as to the actual answer. How many people have sung in Black Sabbath? And I'm not just talking about their albums. Taking Ozzy/Dio/Gillan/Martin out of the equation (and Hughes if you want to count Seventh Star as a Sabbath album instead of an Iommi solo album) there are still a few left---can you name them? I can think of at least 8 other people. Bonus points if you can actually name them without having to utilize the internet or some other outside source for the answer. – Marty B.

A: Oh Marty. Why must you test me? Let me see what I can do for you here.

- The band started with Ozzy Osbourne (1969 – September 1977) as their lead singer. This would be the most fondly remembered era of the band by most fans, and was also the most successful.
- Dave Walker of Savoy Brown took over for Ozzy briefly (September 1977 – January 1978) but never truly recorded with the band, though supposedly a live recording of his time with the band exists.
- Ozzy returned, but not for good (January 1978 – May 1979)
- Ronnie James Dio of Rainbow and later on, Dio, took over on the mic for Osbourne (May 1979 - November 1982). This would be the second most successful lineup. (As a side note, it was at this point that Vinnie Appice, brother of Carmine Appice took over on the kit for Bill Ward due to Ward's health. The band changed drummers almost as often as they did singers.)
- Ian Gillan (January 1983 – March 1984) of Sabbath's former rival Deep Purple stopped by for a cup of coffee.
- Dave Donato showed up for a week or two in 1984. I am not sure he even had time to get the aforementioned coffee.
- Jeff Fenholt is one of the most debatable on the list. In fact, Sabbath themselves claim that he was never really a "member," and that he had just auditioned for the spot. Some places list him as a part of the band from January to September of 1985. That is a hell of an audition if the dates are correct.
- Glenn Hughes (September 1985 – March 1986) joined up. He was also a former member of Deep Purple who had filled the role that Ian Gillan had once held in Deep Purple, and then he was over with Black Sabbath where Ian had also been. (It is at this point in the vocalist chronicles that most people begin smoking from their ears due to brain damage.)
- Ray Gillen, not to be confused with Ian Gillan, took over from March of 1986 to August of 1987. The only recording attributed to him is the laughing on the track "Nightmare."
- Tony Martin joined up and filled the vocal void from the spring of 1993 to December of 1995.
- Rob Halford of Judas Priest filled in several times for live shows when either Ozzy or Dio were unavailable in later years.
- Original drummer Bill Ward sang on two tracks, "Alright" and "Swinging the Chain."
- Ice-T (yes, that Ice-T) performed on "Illusion of Power" from 1995's Forbidden.

That takes me to a grand total of twelve vocalists. I get the distinct impression that I might have missed a name or two since there are few gaps in my timeline, but I will go ahead and claim this as my final answer Regis.

Oh, and of course I was able to construct all of this purely from memory without the use of any other sources. However, incase you have some super technology that can tell where I have been surfing online, I should tell you that my wife has been researching Black Sabbath and that I had nothing to do with it.

In all seriousness, I would say that I could place about seven out of the twelve without peaking. I have this image of Tony Iommi sitting on his couch at home, bored cause there is nothing on TV and whipping out a cell phone… scrolling through his address book and calling up everyone he knows to piece together a band. Thankfully, in later years, the band has stuck to the two greatest lineups featuring either Ozzy or Dio. (No offense intended to the other 10)


Ozzy Osbourne


Ronnie James Dio

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This week's list…(Insert mental drum roll here)

The Top 7 Songs About Money

7."Material Girl" by Madonna– I'll be honest here. I was discussing my list for this week with my wife and she insisted that this song deserved to be on the list. I have documented my distaste for Madonna's music in the past, but I won't deny that the song was a smash hit and is about money. So, in the interest of compromise (they say you have to do that when you get married.) I am including the song on the list.

6. "Moneytalks" by AC/DC – It is dirty, sleazy rock and roll played by one of the greats, what's not to love? Released on their 1990 album Razor's Edge, this track was one of their biggest financial hits. (Ironic huh?) Interestingly, during the subsequent tour for the album, the band would drop "Angus Bucks" on the crowd during the live performance of the song. Who knows? Today they could be more valuable than the real thing!

5."Take the Money and Run" by The Steve Miller Band – This track blasts off with a fun little drum intro and takes off into a narrative of two bank robbers ala Bonnie and Clyde. It is an excellent piece of American classic rock with a hint of a southern rock feel. If you haven't heard it, I highly recommend you checking it out.

4. "If I Had a $1,000,000" by The Barenaked Ladies – Many people forget that The Barenaked Ladies were really a comedy act when they broke out on to the music scene. This song is a little bit of a throw back to that era for them as they run down all of the things that would buy for their girlfriend if they had a million bucks including a nice reliant automobile and a fur coat (but not a real fur coat. That's cruel).

3. "Money (That's What I Want)" by Barrett Strong – Before you all ask, "Who the @#%@ is Barrett Strong?!?" I will tell you. He was an early Motown pioneer and the first to record this song that has since been recorded by damn near everyone. The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Flying Lizards, and countless others have taken a shot at this classic, and many of their versions are outstanding. Today, however, I will honor the original and it's brutally honest look at the world of finance.

2. "Taxman" by The Beatles – This is the lead track off of Revolver, which some consider to be The Beatles' most complete album. Honestly, how can you pick? I still maintain it would be like choosing between your kids. Anyway, this is George Harrison's satirical look at the financial world and the government's involvement with it. From the opening sounds of Harrison counting money, to the classic line "Now my advice to those who die, declare the pennies on your eyes," this song is a classic stab at the greedy.

1. "Money" by Pink Floyd – Was there any doubt? This is the biggest hit off of one of the most successful albums, Dark Side of the Moon, in history. From the moment that the sounds of clanking change hit your speakers, you know what you are in for. From a musical standpoint this is a very groundbreaking song as it is to my knowledge it is the only Top 40 hit to ever be written in 8/7 time, and it also changes time signatures midway through to the standard 4/4 for Gilmour's solo before returning to the original time. Pink Floyd takes the satire present in "Taxman" and amps it up to eleven, making this the single greatest song about Money in history.

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Forgotten Classic

This week's Forgotten Classic is by a band that is a personal favorite band of mine, The Steve Miller Band. These guys got their start in the San Francisco area in 1967, and the are still out and about, performing their craft, to this day. The album that we are looking at is their most successful from a commercial standpoint, Fly Like an Eagle. This album, released in 1976, features two of the band's signature tracks, the title track "Fly Like an Eagle" and the aforementioned "Take the Money and Run." These guys have been one of the ultimate chameleon acts in rock as they have always changed in order to stay relevant to pop culture. They started off as a psychedelic rock band, but as that phase began to pass they became a more straightforward rock and roll band during the 70's. They made the jump again in the 1980s, but since that era produced the song "Abracadabra," we will just go on pretending it never happened. Pick up this album and witness first hand the pinnacle of one of the most underrated bands ever.

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Q: Blake,

I am relatively new to the world of metal and I have been going back and listening to a lot of early Metallica. One of my friends told me that the lead singer from Megadeath used to be in Metallica, but that they kicked him out. Is this true? If so, what happened? The guy was obviously talented since his other band succeeded, right?

Just wanted to get your insight. Thanks.

- Aaron C.

A: Metallica first started in 1981 when drummer Lars Ulrich placed an ad in a local newspaper seeking likeminded metal musicians. James Hetfield was the first to reply. James and Lars jammed along with some other acts and contributed on a an early metal compilation CD or two before placing another ad, this one for a lead guitar player. Enter Dave Mustaine. The band recorded a song for Metal Massacre l, and managed to generate enough buzz to get a few live gigs, despite early pressings of the album listing them as "Mettalica." Before performing live, the band added a bass player, Mr. Ron McGovney. Don't get too attached, he won't be with us long.

Shortly there after Lars and James caught a show at the "Whisky A Go Go" in L.A. that featured the band Trauma. Trauma's bass player was one Cliff Burton (As a side note, Burton passed on in a tragic tour bus accident. He was replaced by Jason Newstead, who was then later replaced by Robert Trujilo, who had been playing bass for Ozzy Osbourne. Newstead in turn went and spent some time playing for Ozzy after his time with Metallica ended. The Black Sabbath curse of a million band members continues…) The guys begged him to join up with their band, but he initially turned them down. Lars and James would not be refused, and by the end of the year Cliff was in and Ron was out. Cliff's stipulation for the band was that they all move to San Francisco, which they did. (And where they still call home today.)

So after a little success in the Bay Area, Metallica was gearing up for the big time. They headed to the bright lights of New York City to record, but the initial label failed to come through. Instead, the guys ended up recording for radio DJ Johnny Zazula's new record label, Megaforce Records.

Right before heading into the studio to record a demo with the new label, things began to crumble. Dave Mustaine was starting to let his drug and alcohol problems get in the way of the music… at least in the minds of his fellow band mates. (Somewhere the band is quoted as saying that they couldn't get along with him because they were all happy drunks and he was an angry and violent drunk.) They decided that it was time for Dave to go, and did so rather unceremoniously.

The story that I have always heard was that the other three band members woke up Dave Mustaine in the morning and handed him a bus ticket back to San Francisco, telling him that he was no longer needed, and that if he wanted to get home he had about thirty minutes to get to the station.

The band did not maintain their status as a three-piece band for long, as that very afternoon the flew in former Exodus guitarist Kirk Hammett.

Dave was obviously upset by his ejection from the band and the circumstances surrounding it. Being a classy guy, I am sure that he just turned the other cheek and went on with his career right? Not so much. He focuses much of his anger on his replacement Kirk. He was been quoted as saying of Kirk, "(He) stole my job, but at least I got to bang his girlfriend before he took my job — how do I taste, Kirk?" He is obviously not familiar with the high road.

The tempers didn't stop flaring there. Dave continued to bash Kirk and the others for years, claiming that all of the bands success was because of the songs he had written, and that Kirk didn't deserve any credit because all he did was rip off his guitar licks and solos. His debut album with his new band, Megadeath included a song called "Mechanix," which was actually his version of a song that Metallica had renamed "The Four Horsemen" and included in their album Kill ‘Em All, claiming that he did so to "set them straight."

Metallica shrugged him off for the most part while calling him a drunk and insinuating that he wasn't talented enough to play guitar for them.

In a very odd turn of events, Metallica entered "band counseling" during the recording sessions for St. Anger in order to work out tensions among each other and handle their own chemical addictions. In a shocking twist, they invited Mustaine to join them for the healing process… and he accepted. Dave showed up and the emotions ran high as the guys spilled their guts and tried to bury the hatchet. For anyone interested, it can all be seen on film in the Metallica documentary "Some Kind of Monster."



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Q: Dude, what is up with all of these good musicians making kids music? I read that the Barenaked Ladies have a CD coming out with all kids songs, and I was watching the Disney channel the other day and they kept featuring songs by "They Might Be Giants" about counting and stuff. Is this not weird to anyone else but me? – Confused Parent

A: As a fellow parent, I couldn't be happier. The world seems to be under the impression that in order for music to be educational to small children, it must be so annoying that it nearly pushes the child's parents over the edge. It is nice to see some real musicians get in the studio and produce some music for kids that teach not only about counting and naptime, but also about what music can be when it is good!

The reasoning behind all of this seems to be that all of these great bands are getting older and wiser and becoming parents themselves. What cooler gift is there to give your kid than a disc full of kid's songs that would make your child the coolest kid on the block?

I will say that on some level it is a little weird to have a kids CD being released by a band that calls themselves The Barenaked Ladies, and They Might Be Giants, while they are far from a filthy act, have a few songs in their catalogue that many parents might deem questionable.

In addition to the acts you mentioned, don't forget that Jack Johnson recently supplied the entire soundtrack the film "Curious George." It is probably pretty hard to locate these days, but a few years back VH1 put out a compilation CD of kids songs for the "Save the Music Foundation." Some highlights include The Barenaked Ladies covering Sesame Street's "La La Lemon," Guster crooning "I've Got to Be Clean," and my favorite, Cake's version of the Muppets' "Mahna Mahna." (What can I say? I love the Muppets and I am not ashamed to admit it.)

I would be remiss in my job if I didn't point out the fact that The Beatles released the soundtrack to the cartoon Yellow Submarine that featured several kid friendly tunes as well.



Alright kids, I have to cut this one a little short as it has been one wild and crazy week. Let's bring this one down.

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This week's drop of band name knowledge is…

Procol Harum - These guys were a British band that broke out onto the progressive scene in the early 1960's, predating most of the progressive acts that we all know and love these days. Their biggest hit was the song "A Whiter Shade of Pale" that was released ion May 12, 1967. The unusual band name was supposedly taken from the name of a Siamese cat that belonged to a friend of the band's original manager, Guy Stevens. The name is supposed to be Latin for "Beyond these things." In actuality, the correct translation into Latin for that phrase would be "Procul His," but we won't split hairs. Unfortunately, the band fell apart due to tensions in the band, but their contributions to music and their unusual name will never be forgotten.

See you all back here next week… and send me some freaking questions.

Class Dismissed.