Ask 411 Music 07.16.08 Tugging at Heartstrings

Posted by Blake Lauderback on 07.17.2008

This week we break down the entire discography of Thin Lizzy, discuss the abuse of flying mammals, KISS: The Disco Era, and the "Untouchables List" Plus, I wrap up the Top 7 Rock Ballads ever!

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Well, it is that time of the week again. Time to buckle down and open those books to learn more about the world of music around us, and I hope you all are and have been paying attention, because lets just say that you may be tested on the information very soon.

I hope everyone is getting a chance to enjoy the summer heat. I seem to be spending most of my time admiring the beautiful sunshine from inside, as work has continued to go nonstop. To be honest, I am about done with summer and looking forward to fall. It will be our first fall up here in Tennessee, and we are looking forward to actually having a season to experience instead of just waking up one morning and wondering why all the leaves were on the ground even though it was still 85 degrees like in Texas.

I also have to do a bit of self promotion in this spot. We are back doing The MUSIC ZONE TOP 5 full force with lots of new faces from the zone along with some old favorites. I have noticed a few of my regulars stopping by over there, and I hope the rest of you will as well. Check it out and vote for your favorite list (hint, hint). Enough of that, let's review what we learned last time around…

- Not only is Thin Lizzy still getting some massive amounts of love from the masses, but after last week's column, quite a few of you stood up to be counted as fans of Kansas. It is nice to see some of the band's fans come out of the woodwork, because I do think that they are a massively underrated act.
- Most of you seem to have reserved your right to judge the Top Ballads list until round two hits the presses, which is nice… though I will go ahead and brace myself for a little backlash.
- The "Untouchables List" is quite the hot topic amongst you all. More on that in just a moment.
- Many of you seem to think that it is totally normal that George Harrison and Eric Clapton remained best buds despite Clapton running off with Harrison's bride. You are all more understanding that I would be. While on that subject, one or two of you commented that "Wonderful Tonight" was a better example of a Clapton song written about Patty Boyd, and on one hand, that is true. Clapton did right that song while watching the former Mrs. Harrison getting ready for a party that they were going to. However, it was written AFTER they were together. "Layla," on the other hand, was supposedly written about her BEFORE they got together, and while she was still with George.

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Now, I know that I promised to start breaking down the next decade, the 60's, in our historical series, but I am going to have to pull a little bait and switch, as the subject of Steveo's proposed "Untouchables List" has caused quite a stir. So this week we are going to delve deeper into that elite list of bands and try to make some semblance of sense out of it.

Now, a few of you raised some questions about what counts as "untouchable." Here is my thoughts one the matter. Obviously, no band is 100% perfect (except the Beatles… just kidding. Even I will admit that they have made mistakes), so looking for an act that has given us perfection each and every time would be ludicrous. However, there is an elite level of rock acts out there that has solidified themselves as true legends. They have not only been successful on their own, but they have broken down walls and served as critical influences for those around them, leaving us all secure in the knowledge that rock music would be radically different without their gifts.

Look at it this way, Babe Ruth is still the all time leader in strikeouts, Michael Jordan walked out on his team when he got bored and returned whenever he felt like it, and Jerry Rice thought it a good plan to play for the Oakland Raiders instead of retiring with the San Francisco 49ers, but does any of that taint our opinion of these guys as the greatest? Absolutely not. Part of growing up is realizing that our idols are just as human as we are, but we still love them for all that they have accomplished.

That said, this is the original "Top 10 Untouchable Bands List" that I posted last week:

- The Beatles - Honestly, if I ever say anything negative about these guys, call me an ambulance because I have obviously suffered some sort of head trauma. They are the best…ever… period.
- Led Zeppelin - Truly deserving of their legendary status. All Zeppelin did was churn out some of the greatest hard rock of all time.
- Pink Floyd - Progressive rock at it's finest in my mind. Not just rock stars, but true artists.
- The Rolling Stones - They are still going, and will probably outlive all of us. While the last few decades haven't been the best for them creatively, they are absolutely one of the biggest influencial bands ever.
- The Who - Easily one of the best all around bands ever. Hard rock, ballads, operas, heart-pounding live shows, crazy antics… how anyone can miss their brilliance I don't understand.
- Queen - If you don't like Queen, you don't like good rock music. Mercury and company created one of the most amazing a unique sounds in the history of popular music, and backed it up with some amazing songs.
- Aerosmith - The real deal when it comes to American rock music. They trail only The Stones when it comes to longevity, and Steven Tyler has managed to keep his boys current in every era while other acts, including The Stones, have often been left in the past decade. Ever he chameleon act, these guys are still pumping out solid tunes to go with their classics.
- The Jimi Hendrix Experience - The sport the greatest guitar player of all time, and the other two were far from being slouches themselves. They had a short run, but their influence is undeniable.
- Black Sabbath - The unholy four. Sabbath took hard rock and molded it to their liking, and it became known as metal. They created the image, the persona, and 90% of the riffs for the next thirty years of metal.
- Nirvana - I include this one somewhat reluctantly for a few reasons. Number one, I can find fault in this band. Number two, we haven't yet been far enough removed to see what kind of legs their music will really have. However, they are amazingly influencial, and I have to give my respect to the suggestion of Steveo.

Now, I am going to do a tad bit of editing at the behest of many of you, including Steveo himself. I am going to remove Nirvana from the list since you all seem to agree that perhaps not enough time has passed for us to be certain about their role in the history books. This is by no means a slight against Cobain and company, as I am sure that they are deserving. In fact, in the upcoming weeks we will take a look at the "Future Untouchables," so to all of you that threw names the like of Pearl Jam, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Radiohead into the hat, your day to discuss will come.

Now, the question is, who to replace Nirvana on the list, and after some serious deliberation, I have come to a conclusion. I submit to you my final pick for the Untouchables List, and it is one I know Steveo will be on board with as well.

- Creedance Clearwater Revival - These guys have done nothing but churn out classic tunes, and no band seems to capture that "Oh my god, I didn't know that THEY sang this song!" dynamic like these guys. They quietly helped blaze the trail, while all the while acknowledging and respecting their influences. CCR certainly has earned this spot in my eyes.

Now, I asked you all to submit your opinions to me for who should make up the next five bands on the list, which would give us a total of fifteen bands to give our utmost respect to. Here are the nominations that you guys sent me in no particular order…

- Rush
- Deep Purple
- Judas Priest
- Metallica
- Motorhead
- The Eagles
- The Doors
- U2
- Bob Marley and the Wailers
- The Grateful Dead
- The Ramones
- The Clash
- Cream
- The Velvet Underground
- Kansas
- Thin Lizzy
- KISS
- Guns and Roses
- Iron Maiden
- Alice Cooper
- The Yardbirds

Now, there you have it, your list of nominations for the final five spots. Who makes the cut? It is your call. Send in your votes for which of these bands deserve to join the contemporaries on the "Untouchables List." Every vote gets them one point. The top five scoring bands will be announced next week. Vote now and vote often!

We will rejoin our regularly scheduled program next week as we return to our "Decades" series by looking at the most essential moments and artists of the 1960's. Now, on with the show.

Class is in Session

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"We would shout and swim about the coral that lies beneath the waves. / Oh what joy for every girl and boy knowing they're happy and they're safe. / We would be so happy, you and me, no-one there to tell us what to do. / I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden with you." – Octopus' Garden

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Q: Hey,

I quite liked your untouchables list, but I think Nirvana should be off it. And of course Black Sabbath to be promoted higher up...along with the Beatles, Led Zep and Floyd. In my book, these four are the greatest ever. You can blame Dan Haggerty for my Sabbath obsession.

Anyway to my question, I have always heard of that incident of Ozzy biting off a live bat's head during concert. My question is When did this particular incident occur? I have heard differing accounts on this [me not being in existance then] some say [which I tend to believe] that it happened after he left Sabbath while some say it was during his tenure in Sabbath. Quite confusing actually. I know for a fact that he bit off a pigeon's head after he left Sabbath while meeting with record execs. Hopefully you can shed some light on that.

Have a great day!

A: The "Untouchables List" isn't designed to be in any particular order. To be honest though, I agree with your top 4, though I would probably add one more and throw in The Who. You obviously were not alone in your thought that Nirvana wasn't ready for that spot, but I'll let you break the news to Mitch.

All of that aside, on to your Ozzy inquiry. The "bat incident" did not take place until January 20, 1982, approximately three years after his departure from Black Sabbath. It happened in Des Moines, Iowa (A really "rockin'" town I swear), when a fan threw what Ozzy believed to be a fake bat onto the stage. Ozzy picked it up and saw a chance to to fuel the frenzy of the crowd and promote his image as the "Prince of Darkness," so he chomped of the head. To Ozzy's shock, the bat was not fake, but rather a real deceased bat. Some sources have tried to claim that the bat was alive, but how many bats do you know that will just allow themselves to be hurled to the stage, picked up, and nibbled on without some sort of retaliation?

Ozzy received tons of publicity, both positive and negative for the event, and now the occurrence is completely entwined in his legacy.

It is also true that he pulled the same decapitation maneuver on a dove in a meeting as you stated, though it seemed to get him a little less press than the nocturnal mammal. I suppose doves just aren't as cool.

Q: Blake,
Ok, dude, you asked for questions, so here you go:

1) What's your opinion of Oasis? (Familiar to Millions is a great live album by the way)

2) Best movie soundtrack?

3) Which is the better "record store" movie: Empire Records or High Fidelity?

4) KISS did a disco album, that automatically disqualifies them from being on the "you can't hate them" list. That and while they put on one hell of a show, were they really that great?

5) At one of the VH1 Rock Honors shows, Rob Zombie and an all-star cast did a kick ass cover of "God of Thunder". Any clue as to where one might be able to get the mp3?

6) Do you think that Dave Grohl will be remembered more for his Foo Fighters work than his Nirvana work? Has that already happened?

Take care,
Chris Connolly

A: Hey Chris! Great to hear from you again.

As far as my thoughts on Oasis go, I think that they are a talented band overall that is completely overshadowed by the general assholeness (Is that a word? From now on I will just use "Gallagerness" in its place.) It is a real shame that Liam and Noel have left the world with the impression that they are total cry babies and jerks, while they forget about their talent, but I suppose that is their own doing.

I don't want to take away from them musically though, because they were one of the better bands in the 90's, pumping out both critically and commercially successful material.

I did a Top 7 covering my favorite movies about rock music, which you can read HERE. In it, I gave the numero uno spot to Almost Famous. As far as soundtracks in general go… hmm… that may take a while, though you have given me a great idea for next week's Top 7!

As far as record store movies go, I have to give the nod to Empire Records, but just barely.

KISS is a truly unique occurrence in the history of rock. They were/are known for their over the top live show much more than for their actual music. As a band, they had some stellar material here and there, particularly in their early career. Songs like "Rock and Roll All Nite," "Strutter," "Destroyer," and "Detroit Rock City" are classic early metal/hard rock.

However, I think things began to turn south when the band became more of a business venture than a creative force. When art becomes about money, it loses everything that made it great. The only creativity left in the band was Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley's harebrained schemes to make money on merchandise. (Everyone aware that there is a KISS casket for sale out there?)

Enter their horrible ideas like the KISS movie, the disco era, and taking off their make up so that they could sing generic 80's crap like "Lick it Up." While every band has made missteps, most bands make them because they are trying to create something new. These guys were just lining the pockets of their spandex and leather with cash.

The version of "God of Thunder" in question is pretty freaking impressive. The band being led by Rob Zombie features Slash (Guns and Roses / Velvet Revolver), Gilby Clarke (Guns and Roses), Tommy Lee (Motley Crue), Scott Ian (Anthrax), and one Mr. Ace Frehley (KISS). I didn't have much luck finding it as an MP3, as most versions I found were of Rob's version with White Zombie, be you can check out the video HERE.

Finally, I do think that there is a good chance that Dave Grohl is already starting to be known more for his time with the Foo Fighters instead of as the drummer from Nirvana. First of all, Nirvana was all about Kurt, and tends to be remembered as such. Not to mention the fact that Dave has been pounding out music with the Foos longer than Nirvana was in existence.

We already knew that he was a great drummer, but the past decade has proved that he is also a great front man, songwriter, and guitar player.

Even if it hasn't happened 100% just yet, I think it is only a matter of time before people are saying "Did you know that Dave Grohl used to play drums for Nirvana?" instead of the more traditional "Did you know that the drummer from Nirvana has his own band?" and I personally think that it is a great thing. It would be a shame for Dave's career to have died along with Cobain.

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This week's list…(Insert mental drum roll here)

The Top 7 14 Rock Ballads

Disclaimer: In case you missed it, we covered numbers 14 – 8 last week. Check it out if you want to see the list in it's entirety.

7. "The Wind Cried Mary" by The Jimi Hendrix Experience – Hendrix was so much more than just the blazing guitar work that he is known for. He was a solid song writer and vocalist, and I personally believe that his vocals shined much brighter on his softer songs. "The Wind Cried Mary" is a perfect example of Hendrix mixing his soulful voice with some brilliant bluesy goodness to create a true classic.

6. "Knockin' on Heaven's Door" by Bob Dylan – Bob Dylan is one of the greatest songwriters to ever pick up a pen and strum a guitar. What he lacks in vocal talent, he more than makes up with his poetic genius. This somber tune is an essential in any classic collection, and has been covered many times over the years, including a great version by Eric Clapton

5. "Wish You Were Here" by Pink Floyd– I labored long and hard over the decision to pick "Wish You Were Here" over "Comfortably Numb," considering that the later is not only my favorite Floyd song, but one of my favorite songs period. However, I believe that this track more closely resembles a ballad with it's beautiful acoustic intro and it's heartfelt lyrics. As we have covered here in the past, the song is an emotional message sent to former band mate Syd Barrett.

4. "Bridge Over Troubled Water" by Simon and Garfunkel – Popular music has known many great song writing duos, from Lennon and McCartney to Leiber and Stoller, there have been tons of great music produced by a one-two punch. Simon and Garfunkel have earned their spot up their with the best of them. This song is a truly uplifting and inspiring tune, and if you don't feel at least a little something after listening to it, there is a chance that you don't have a soul.

3. "Tears in Heaven" by Eric Clapton – Clapton has obviously had a long and storied career with multiple bands and millions and millions of albums sold, but his most humanizing moment came when he released this song, written about the tragic death of his young son. Not only is the song beautiful from a musical standpoint with some gorgeous acoustic work, but it's somber meaning will break your heart as this grieving father uses his gift of music to deal with reality.

2. "Stairway to Heaven" by Led Zeppelin – I am sure you have heard this song at least once in your life. In fact, I am sure that there are tribes in Africa, untouched by society in general that know this song. It is one of the most iconic songs in the history of rock and roll, and it just narrowly misses out on the number one spot because the climax at the end makes it just a little less of a ballad than some of the songs on the list. That is by no means a slight on Zeppelin or their most famous song though, as it too is absolutely essential to any and all collections.

1. "Yesterday" by The Beatles – To me, there could be no other choice to fill this spot. The crowning moment of a legendary songwriter (Paul McCartney), this track opened the public's eyes to a totally different side of The Beatles, and rock music in general. With it's beautiful orchestrations that accompany the solo acoustic guitar and vocal line, this is the only Beatles' song to feature only one Beatle. Plus, to the best of my knowledge, it still holds the record for being the most covered song of all time. Many of the other ballads on the list would never have been penned without this tune to blaze the trail.

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Forgotten Classic Since we have looked at a couple of different songwriters today, I thought we would pay tribute to the seminal work of one other. Van Morrison has enjoyed a very long and successful career, though his reclusiveness has allowed him to hide out just out of the spotlight, and allowing his music to be what takes center stage. Early on in his career, Van Morrison achieved fame with the band Them before breaking out on his own to write hits like "Brown Eyed Girl" and "Gloria." In November of 1968, after battling for his musical freedom (a story for another day), he released Astral Weeks, which many critics believe to be his greatest effort. While it was far from a commercial success (it took all the way until 2001 for it to be declared "Gold"), it remains an ingenious effort from one of the best songwriters of his, or any other era. Check out songs like "Sweet Thing" and "Cyprus Avenue," but I recommend listening the album in its entirety in order to get the full effect.

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Q: Hey man,

I just saw the nominations for the VH1's 100 Greatest Rock Songs of all time. They fucked it up bad. How You Remind Me was on there. There was only 100 songs listed which means that that is going to be on there. That's right, Nickelback wrote one of the 100 Greatest Rock Songs of all time.

I'd like to add a stipulation to the decade list. A group cannot be on more than one decade list. The Chili Peppers are eligable in the 80's, 90's, and the 00's, but they can only be placed on one of the lists.

Also, What do you think of Incubus?

That's all i got,
Steveo

A: Oh Steveo, you know me so well it is scary. I found the older version of VH1's Top 100 Rock Songs, but I don't think that is the one you meant. Send me a link and I will be more than happy to destroy it for you… especially if it really does feature Nickleback.

Incubus is alright by me. I really enjoyed their albums Morning View and Make Yourself. In fact, I would have to rank "Stellar," "Pardon Me," and especially "Drive" as some of my favorite rock songs from the early 2000's. I didn't really get into their most recent release as much. I heard it at the instance of a friend of mine, but it just didn't do it for me. I should probably give it another shot now that you mention it.

I think the band truly has a style all their own. I wouldn't call them the greatest by any means, but they have some solid guitar riffs and a bang-up rhythm section. They were a real bright spot during the early 00's rock slump.



Q: Just to keep the TL campaign for the hall of fame going, rank the Lizzy discography from best to worst (your opinion) and briefly discuss your choices for each position. Should be interesting to see your take on that and Haggerty and Samuels will probably be interested also. – Marty B.

A: Marty, you are the king of marathon questions bud. Alright… complete Thin Lizzy Discography top to bottom.

1. Jailbreak - No doubts about this one… it is by far my favorite, featuring "Jailbreak," "Cowboy Song," and "The Boys are Back in Town"

2. Bad Reputation - Featuring "That Woman's Gonna Break Your Heart" and "Bad Reputation," this album was a welcome return to the down and gritty sound of some of their earlier work after they had gotten a tad too polished.

3. Live and Dangerous - I don't suppose that this should really count since it is kind of a live album, but it is pretty freaking awesome none the less. It would have scored high on the Top 7 live albums, but it is notoriously overdubbed.

4. Black Rose: A Rock Legend - This is probably the last true classic album that they released, and the last with their producer, Toni Visconti. It is also one of the most diverse albums in the band's catalogue. With tunes like the dark anti-addiction themed "Toughest Street in Town" and the sweet song written by Lynott for his daughter, "Sarah," this gem is massively underrated.

5. Fighting - This album rocks… start to finish. The whole album is pretty much pedal to the metal from note one, as the prolific "double lead style" pioneered by the band took center stage throughout.

6. Johnny the Fox - Featuring some standout tracks like "Borderline" and "Don't Believe a Word," this album suffered a bit being released right after Jailbreak. While it was overlooked upon it's release, time has shown that this very different, concept-ish album still showcased the band's skills.

7. Vagabonds of the Western World - The highlight of this album for me has to be the song "Whiskey in the Jar." Lizzy's drummer, Downey, really starts to take flight on this, their third album.

8. Night Life - This album is really loaded with irony. For being called Night Life, it seems much more appropriate for a nice evening in with it's soulful side. This album was supposed to be the start of the new era of TL, but instead, it was a truly unique effort amongst all of their other albums. Essential listening includes "She Knows" and "Still in Love With You."

9. Thin Lizzy - The first taste that the world ever got of Phil and the boys. It was a solid opening act, but the boys still had quite a bit of growing left to do. "Look What the Wind Blew In" provides the best look into the future of what the band would become.

10. Shades of a Blue Orphanage - "Baby Face" and "Buffalo Girl" mark the brightest spots on this sophomore effort. The album has a lot of high concept ideas, which isn't really in the Thin Lizzy style. There are still great moments, but there are a few downsides as well.

11. Thunder and Lightening - Like many of their contemporaries, Thin Lizzy's hard rock edge came to a crossroads with the new brand of rock in the mainstream. They went the way of many other bands and began including a lot more synth in their sound and recording with a little bit poppier style, which is a shame because as far as songwriting goes, it was one of the more consistent later albums.

12. Chinatown - "We Will Be Strong" and "Sweetheart" mark the highpoints, as the band suffered a bit of a let down after the brilliant Black Rose: A Rock Legend. It was starting to turn into the beginning of the end for the amazing classic rockers.

13. Renegade - The band members themselves have openly admitted that this is their weakest album. They further followed the new 80's style that was on the horizon, leading to way too much keyboard. I also think that the heavy drug use was starting to become a serious issue for the boys.



Alrighty, to quote Mr. Plant, "let's bring it on home tonight."

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This week's drop of band name knowledge is…

Lynyrd Skynyrd - These southern rock legends took their name from Leonard Skinerd, their high school gym teacher, who was notoriously strict about the hair length of male students. The guys used this opportunity to "get back" at him for all of his harassment.

Don't forget to vote for the "Untouchables List," and tune in to VH1's "Rock Honors" Thursday night in support of The Who!!!

See you all back here next week… and send me some freaking questions.

Class Dismissed.