Things We Wish Weren't True But Are, #2
Posted by Andrew Tobolowsky on 04.23.2009
A stunning expose...
Two things that we wish weren't true but are
1) Pointing out an opponent's hypocrisy is not a good argument.
Look at it this way: if someone else is insincere in the point they're making, does that make you right?
It does not. It makes them insincere. Someone can, for example, say that the deficit is huge and dangerous solely to score political points—and still be saying something that's true. And you, because you're defending huge deficits can still be wrong.
I understand the argument—that there is a propaganda war going on, and the other side can't be allowed to win it. This is, basically, unfortunate but true. If Democrats let Republicans pin the woeful state of the economy on Obama, it would be a tragedy for the Democrats.
However, even then—and lord knows I wish this wasn't true, I am immensely guilty of it myself—saying "how come you guys didn't mind this junk when Bush was doing it" is not an ARGUMENT in favor of doing it.
One might say instead "I think that, while adding to the deficit sucks, it is necessary in order to correct the massive failure of the economy," which is still likely to be true (I'm not an economist, I don't know, but it makes sense to me) and has the benefit of being a point in FAVOR of what you believe rather than against what the other person believes---not even what the other person believes but WHY they are saying it.
And if you want to say, whilst you say that, that this is true because of how Bush mismanaged the economy, go nuts. Again, I really cannot claim and have no right to claim a personal comprehension of the intricate details of the economy, but I am saying if you are going to argue—make points.
2) Bush WAS given a chance and ultimately lost it to a degree that A) Bush criticism is not a logical basis for vengeful Obama criticism, B) he is actually something Republicans and Democrats could agree on if they didn't hate each other so much.
What I've heard from a lot of Republicans is that Obamaites have no right to be sore because of their shameful treatment of Bush. Even Bernard Goldberg's extremely laudable rebuttal of Sean Hannity, that you lose credibility if you go after Obama for EVERYTHING that he does no matter what it is, had the caveat that "I'm not going to be like the left was with George Bush and criticize everything he does."
This is a popular perception. But it isn't true.
According to Gallup, when Bush was elected, his popularity consistently fluctuated around 55-65%. Yeah that's not stunning, but only 25% of America DISAPPROVED. I don't know if anyone remembers, but January 2001 wasn't exactly a bitter political time. I am persuaded nobody really cared too much who was in the White House—it didn't seem like a big deal.
After September 11th, Bush had the highest approval rating Gallup has ever reported. 90%. It did not dip below 75% until June of '02. Didn't dip below 60, until July '03.
By the time he left office, he had a 29% approval rating with 67% of America actively disapproving.
It was not because he was Conservative. It was not because Liberals had an axe to grind. He lost 61 percentage points of approval rating between 2001 and 2008. That number alone is more than exists in either party.
And, unless Conservatives in this country were 75% in June of '02 (90% in September, but that would be an anomaly), and then miraculously fell to 29% by 2008, the idea that liberals were just out to get Bush is so untenable it is laughable—as is the idea that conservatives should be crucified for supporting him. I don't know why we pretend we don't agree with each other on anything at all—nearly 70% of America agreed that Bush wasn't a good president by the end.
In terms of using criticism of Bush as justification for Obama criticism—it isn't. As is obviously shown here, Bush earned his lack of support. He worked hard for it, over many years. Obama has not yet had that kind of time. Naturally, obviously, the nature of Obama's policies, much more revolutionary than anything specifically proposed in Bush's years, are apt to bring swifter criticism if they seem threatening. You are not obligated to wait and see if they work before you criticism him.
But, to say that it is the done thing to criticize the other guy's guy no matter what he does so it's okay for you to do it for THAT reason, is an unjustified fiction with no historical support.
I'm not trying to equate Bush with Republicanism and say that his failings were the failings of Republicanism.
The point I'm trying to make is that people should have better reasons for their opinions and statements then 1) revenge for something which never actually happened or 2) because the other side doesn't have the credibility to criticize what still very well might deserve criticism.
Intellectual honesty. You were able to admit that Bush was not very good at being president by the end. You should still be able to admit it. If you didn't like deficits before, you shouldn't like them now, even if the other side has nothing to act superior about.
Don't let pride get in the way of using your brain. I fail at this as much—and more—as the next person. But we should all try harder.
Posted By: AdmChesterMynuts (Guest) on April 23, 2009 at 12:14 AM
Andrew, plenty of evil conservatives had a issue with Bush and his policies.His massive spending was critized from the right.Harriet Myers?The port mess.The first TARP bill.I could go on and on.
The problem from what I see is that the next administration is making another round of mistakes that no one will condemn becuase he is from the left.
Your point is well taken though..........and yes.....it is "awesome"
Posted By: John (Guest) on April 23, 2009 at 12:19 AM
i voted for obama. there are some things he has done i liked and some i dislike.
the hard right has attacked everything obama has done or attempt to do. even if he has reinforced some of bush's old policies. out of sheer politics, they just cant agree with him.
to call obama's administration a failure after only three months and less than 100 days in office is jumping the gun. it is like a baseball team that loses a couple games in a row and espn blows it out of proportion in APRIL. instead of espn, we have the cable news channels that follow him every day. not just fox news but cnn and msnbc have been more of a detriment to politics. 24 hour coverage becomes nauseating.
Posted By: rey (Guest) on April 23, 2009 at 01:15 AM
Wow a pretty fair and balanced article from a lefty on 411mania! I'm impressed Andrew.
Posted By: gwpbrian (Guest) on April 23, 2009 at 01:17 AM
Intellectual honesty in the political realm is a pipe dream. It won't happen, especially when the Republican party knows that emotional propaganda works on their core people. It's a lot easier to do things like scream "Socialism" because it sounds bad than to actually argue that a 3% tax increase on the smallest percentage of Americans is Socialist.
Posted By: JD (Guest) on April 23, 2009 at 03:07 AM
Good article, except for ONE point.
"I don't know if anyone remembers, but January 2001 wasn't exactly a bitter political time. I am persuaded nobody really cared too much who was in the White House—it didn't seem like a big deal."
Are... you... SERIOUS? The RECOUNT? FLORIDA? Bush "stealing" (or stealing) the election? Bush's motorcade having to speed up to avoid what was almost a miniature riot? Complete with shots of Secret Service running along side the limo to keep up?
Just saying...
Posted By: James (Registered) (Guest) on April 23, 2009 at 04:47 AM
Another thinly veiled anti-bush/pro-obama column.
Shocking.
Posted By: anit-messiah (Guest) on April 23, 2009 at 09:09 AM
Good column. Now if we can just get everyone in Washington and the MSM to go along with it things will improve.
I have another one for things we wish weren't true but are: Saying something doesn't make it so.
I see so many statements of the "Action X will cause an increase in Y" variety with NO evidence to support the claim. It's especially rampant in the comments section. When someone says ending the Bush tax cuts will kill job creation I roll my eyes because they cite no evidence to their claim. On the other hand, when someone argues for concealed carry by pointing out that states which allow it have less gun crime, that's a solid point even if I disagreed with their position.
Posted By: Shockmaster (Guest) on April 23, 2009 at 10:01 AM
Good article, Andrew. Good point, James.
Andrew, I need a favor, and I'll mail you a dollar if you'll do it. Please teach Zimmer and Brandon Crow to write half as well as you. I don't always agree with you (in fact, I don't MOST of the time), but you do a much better job that those two nitwits of trying to keep it civil and not deliberately antagonizing the "other side". Zimmer and Crow should be gone, or should stick to reviewing gay porn movies.
Posted By: Pez D. Spencer (Guest) on April 23, 2009 at 11:12 AM
I agree with you 100%, even though I normally disagree with you 90% of the time.
And I also agree that you're, by far, the best "left-leaning" columnist on this site. By FAR.
Posted By: Jimbo (Guest) on April 23, 2009 at 12:52 PM
This is true, some of our board members, even members of my ideology, need a lesson in playing nice. It's like they skipped kindergarten where they learned to share their toys and whatnot. I'm trying to avoid the word "bipartisan" here because it has been overused in the media and pretty much means jack and squat now. But it doesn't make you a communist to *once in a while* put a win in the opposition's column if you feel they deserve it. Which you will eventually, unless you're a robot or Ann Coulter. Hell, even Bill Maher gives the opposition credit where credit is due!
Posted By: James (Registered) (Guest) on April 23, 2009 at 01:54 PM
I disagree, pointing out hypocrisy is excellent. If someone brings up "well your side is doing this and it's horrible," the appropriate response, if available, is "well, your side did the exact same thing here... I'm just curious, did you support that or did you call it wrong also?"
If they say they did not support it, then you've found someone with intelligence and you can probably have a decent exchange of ideas with them. You probably won't have your beliefs changed, but the both of you will very likely walk away with an appreciation of how the other comes to their beliefs.
If they weasel around and try to claim it was OK when their side was doing something wrong, you've found a genetic defective that believes his side is right 100% of the time and anyone else that disagrees on any part is a member of the evil other side. Congratulations, you've just avoided wasting precious time on a mentally defective person.
Posted By: Scott B (Guest) on April 23, 2009 at 02:07 PM
Ah, Andrew, but have you forgotten that it is the Main Stream Media that was truly responsible for all of W's misfortunes. If ONLY they had reported the GOOD things in Iraq! If only they hadn't focused so much on his completely unconcern for the huge hurricane that took 5 DAYS to reach the shore! If ONLY they hadn't focused so much on his terrible appointments, exposing them as bad choices and getting in his way from cronyism.
As for pointing out hypocrisy, it can be helpful is 1) it isn't don't for every little things, and 2) You have other points to make when you point it out. Too many people say, "Well, you did it, too" and leave it at that. I like to know when someone is being a hypocrite, but but I'm really MUCH more interested in data and well thought out arguments.
Posted By: xjuggernaughtx (Guest) on April 23, 2009 at 04:20 PM