Do We Really Need a Third Stimulus?
Posted by Joe Rivett on 07.13.2009
If twice you do not succeed, try again?
I was happy to read that George Will reminded Americans that we have already had two stimulus bills. The first was a check for 600 dollars for every adult and 300 for every child. I used that 1,500 to pay off the 8,000 I spent on home repairs. Get this, the windows and doors were made in America! Apparently, it was necessary because unemployment had risen to 4.8% Yikes! It was totally unnecessary but was I going to complain about free money? The current stimulus is more complex. It is basically saving jobs that would have been lost and keeping your state property/income taxes down. Without the passage of the stimulus, many schools and other taxpayer subsidized employers would have had to either shred jobs or raise taxes.
The current stimulus was expensive and borrowed. There is nothing wrong with that. It times of recession, government must borrow and spend more than it brings in. The Republicans were unable to derail it because they complained it was a spending bill! Duh, every stimulus is a spending bill. They also wanted tax cuts, but it did contain the biggest Middle Class tax cut in American history so when it came down to it, I supported it. The time to care about the deficit was 2003 and beyond, yet the Republicans made matters worse by starting a war and adding another Medicare entitlement with no plan to pay for it.
So here we are with a huge deficit, two wars, car bankruptcies, medical costs going through the roof and some want a third stimulus before the second one has already run its course. For heaven's sake our elected officials need to be patient. If the economic conditions are the worst since 1929, we aren't going to get out of this in less than a year. Many people's homes have decreased 25% in value; no amount of stimulus is going to make up for that.
What the government should be doing is thinking how to increase consumer spending or how to encourage people to stop saving. The "clunkers" program that will begin at the end of July is a start in influencing people to buy a new car. The 8,000 credit for first time home buyers has helped the housing slow down. First time home buyers are important because when you buy a home, you usually go into debt fixing it up and going to Home Depot every week.
Our officials need to be patient but I guess it is difficult to be patient when one need's to get reelected. Therefore, it is time for us to be patient.
In theory increased spending and tax cuts during a recession make sense. The problem is they must be balanced by restrained spending and higher taxes during the good times. Without getting into partisan bickering, let's just say that rarely happens. We don't need another stimulus, we need for the economy to adjust to meet reality.
All that stuff people were employed to make and build was bought on bad credit. The whole nation, and in fact much of the world, was saying "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today". Stimulus checks by their nature are intended to sustain an economic level that was unsustainable all along. It sucks if you're among those laid off, but living in national economic denial is the worst thing we can do.
Posted By: Shockmaster (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 04:54 PM
The problem I have with the "clunkers" program is all the little rules that must be followed to get the benefit. And then really the benefit isn't enough for most people to buy a new car with.
So basically, it only benefits those who don't need it.
Posted By: DeimosMasque (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 05:35 PM
No, we do not need a third stimulus. We didn't need Bush's first, Obama's, or a future one.
It makes me so mad that these people in Washington feel they can do whatever they want with our money--with our children's & grandchildren's money.
Posted By: Jareth (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 06:12 PM
Politician A: "Well, the economy is screwed because everyone has borrowed more money than they can possibly pay back, what should we do about this?"
Politician B: "Let's borrow more money than we could ever possibly pay back to stimulate the economy!"
Posted By: luna (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 11:21 PM
Stimulus 2 was supposed to keep unemployment from going to 9%.Fail.
Now they want to spend more of our kids money becuase they "miscalculated" the economy(Bidens statement)
Remember there are more pork programs that need money.You know they will slip those in just like they did during stimulus 2.(Acorn,smoking cessation,STDS,hollywood producers)
Pure insanity. Hardly anyone got their homes saved from foreclosure during bank bailouts,the car bailouts were supposed to stop bankruptcy, now this.Our elected officials have failed us.Again, again and again.When is enough, ENOUGH?
Now watch, left wingers will call me names and Crow will blame it on Bush.At least we are talking about something other than Palin.
Posted By: John (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 11:22 PM
Real neat how you tied the Bush tax rebates with Obama's bullshit stimulus bill...
The difference- Bush sent tax rebates back to the tax payers. Obama lost the money through the banks, or spent it on shit that is failing.
Fucking Rivett- How stupid do you think people are?
Obama never read the stimulus bill- Chris Dodd has admited as much, so how can we expect anything to work to a set of standards when nobody knows what those standards are?
Obama is talking out his ass- and unemployment will just keep growing.
Stimulus 2 my ass.
Posted By: The Spook (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 12:09 AM
No
Posted By: Guest#1361 (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 01:55 AM
I second that, "No"
Posted By: Guest#2948 (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 01:56 AM
"Now watch, left wingers will call me names and Crow will blame it on Bush.At least we are talking about something other than Palin."
I don't know about that, but you better not suggest we stop talking about Palin. My last comment to that effect got "moderated".
Welcome back Spook, I was wondering where you had gone. While I agree that a dumb idea that puts $300 in my pocket is better than one that yields $0, giveaways are still horrible policy. It's as stupid as if they just started printing more money to pay for things. I mean, can you imagine... oh, wait.
Posted By: Shockmaster (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 09:29 AM
Spook,
I guess Bush's stimulus did the job, right? ....oh wait!
Anywho, I think it is too soon to try another stimulus. Half of the cash from Obama's stimulus hasn't even been used. Now, they are talking about a third one? C'mon.....Patience is a virtue. I'm tired of people that think things will be fixed over night.
Posted By: David (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 09:32 AM
Shockmaster writes: "Welcome back Spook, I was wondering where you had gone."
He only appears when I write an article attacking a Bush policy or Republicans and I haven't done that in a while b/c believe it or not Spooky, I'm not a Democrat.
Based on the results, the first stimulus didn't do anything and the second one merely put a band-aid on something that was bleeding heavier.
Posted By: JoeRivett (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 10:34 AM
"Anywho, I think it is too soon to try another stimulus. Half of the cash from Obama's stimulus hasn't even been used. Now, they are talking about a third one? C'mon.....Patience is a virtue. I'm tired of people that think things will be fixed over night.
Posted By: David (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 09:32 AM"
I thought the number was closer to 10%...
I think the difficulty here is that expectation levels are pretty off. This is an economic problem that will be around for years. However, for better or worse (mostly worse), people want to see results in six months. So, in order to show things are working, you come up with another gimmick or sleight-of-hand distraction.
I can see the argument that we were "promised" something different. I fully believe things will be different, but not that fast. Of course, speed seems to be of the import, given the desire to deal with cap and trade at the same time as overhauling the health system.
I believe the saying is "May you live in exciting times". If the past six months is any indication, we're in for quite a ride over the next 2.5-3.5 years...
Posted By: J. Alexander Mitchell (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 11:00 AM
Which party controlled Congress during the "Bush Stimulus"?
I thought ACORN was properly funded in the second stimulus earlier this year therefore making a second ACORN stimulus unnecessary.
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 12:52 PM
Remember how Obama said legalizing marijuana wouldn't grow the economy? Good times.......
Posted By: Madcapunlimited (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 01:09 PM
I can use another $600
Posted By: The Mack (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 01:35 PM
that 600 dollars that was "given" back was your money in the first place. if we werent taxed so damned bad maybe we would have more money to spend on the economy. if the government wouldnt give money away to people who are too lazy to get jobs we wouldnt have to pay so much in taxes. if we didnt have to give money away to people who wanted to study the effect of fake global warming on the life cycle of northeast american red tailed mosquitos who live in trash cans in soutwest us we would have money to spend on the economy. my taxes are the biggest bill i have. and it keeps going up.
Posted By: Guest#4241 (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 06:03 PM
I don't think anyone supports Obama's neo-con policies-not even neo-cons, let alone real conservatives or liberals!
Posted By: Guest#3112 (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 06:10 PM
It would be useful if you would cite sources in your articles. No offense, but if I go to use any info you've stated in discussions I would like to be able to say it came from fill in the blank, rather than it came from a wrestling/pop culture website!
Posted By: Dr J (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 06:12 PM
I was reading some of the comments, and everyone has a right to say anything they want at any time no matter how dumb ass it is. You are entilted to your opinion as I am mine. But "spook"? you have got to be shitting me. You make a blatantly racist name and expect to be taken seriously. Even if you had a good argument, its directly tied with racism. Go fuck yourself
Posted By: not funny (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 10:26 PM
David the reason people think it should be fixed is because we were told we NEEDED this NOW, that we would go into a depression if we didnt get it, and that unemployment wouldn't rise above 8 % by this time. Well it's over 9 right now, and expected to climb to 10. Michigan is staring at 20 (guess which party has been running that state into the ground for decades?) Again, the administration was more optimistic about this than anyone. They're the ones that painted the rosy scenario. Bottom line is you can complain about Bush all you want to, but everything you didn't like about Bush, Obama is doubling down on.
Posted By: gwpbrian (Guest) on July 14, 2009 at 11:30 PM
Dammit, Biggie was right. Mo' Money, Mo' Problems.
Posted By: Deathpool (Guest) on July 15, 2009 at 05:46 AM
I’m so tired of listening to you Americans complaining about needing more money to fix your economy. What about the rest of the world? Why don’t you people take responsibility for the global crisis you’ve caused? It’s because of simple American greed and ignorance that you all are in the mess you’re in now and I don’t feel bad for you people at all. You’re getting what you deserve. Now stop complaining about which party has the better plan to fix the economy and just do it or shut up. Or maybe let another country take the lead. Maybe a country that isn’t as greedy and evil…
Posted By: Un-American (Guest) on July 15, 2009 at 10:46 AM
Were on our third stimulus... hasnt any one figured out the first two sure didnt work other than helping slide our country into a 1,000,000,000,000 dollar debt. If obama wanted to save the country he would let the economy flow and do its thing... what happens when the government gets its hands in some thing like the economy, they change the natural order of things... yea what ever bills 1 and two may have saved a few jobs here and there for now but as we can see they are still going away. Obama got his hands into some thing and Fked it all up even more so and of course when you change the value of the dollar and pump out money so drastically your going to get a un-predictable economy. We need to tell obama to start digging in his own damn pockets for change to hand out insted of taking money from us to give to us. what a jack ass.
Posted By: Guy (Guest) on July 15, 2009 at 08:32 PM
STAY CURRENT