A Public Option Doesn't Impact Me
Posted by Joe Rivett on 07.26.2009
Lots of topics: health care, economy, Medicare, Blue Dogs, and Gates (The black one)...
Health Care – A public option still means you can have private insurance so I don't see the "socialist" scare tactics. I'll still have my private insurance and if the bastards won't cover me for something, I'll have another option besides quitting my job so I can get Medicaid which unfortunately many people do. Australia has a Public Option and they seem to be handling it. By the way, people in the UK and Canada when polled by Gallup enjoy their health care more than Americans.
Louis Gates – Let us not always rely on "the police reports" as if it is gospel. No one really knows what exactly happened. I had trouble breaking into my truck once and a cop pulled over to make sure it was mine. It didn't bother me but then again, I'm white. I'm tired of hearing post racial America nonsense. Just because America elected a half white, raised by a white family during the worst economy since the depression does not mean blacks shouldn't complain about anything or that racism doesn't exist.
Blue Dogs – If the Blue Dogs really care about the deficit, where were they during the Afghanistan/Iraq funding? 538.com had an interesting piece showing how Blue Dogs represent districts where the constituents have less health care coverage than the Liberal Democrats. If you can't vote for expanding health care, why are you a Democrat?
Economy – For the fourth straight month, the number of homes sold continued to grow. The Dow topped 9,000. Ford even turned a profit. If this is the worst economy since the depression, then should we give Obama a little more time before we call him a failure?
Medicare – We can cut costs by allowing the right to die for terminally ill people. I wonder how much of our tax dollars went into keeping Terri Schiavo alive so that Bill Frist could try to run for President?
Unfortunately, the public option in it's current form DOES impact anyone with private insurance, because on page 16 of the bill in the house, it says that once this bill is signed into law, that private insurance may not enroll new members into their programs. So, that would 1) Effectively destroy private insurance in this country, and 2) drive you costs up so much in the long run, that you'd have to enroll in the public option eventually.
And the copmlexity of the operations of heathcare, along with the driving up of prices becaue of a lack of competition would hurt you and everyone in the short and long term. Plus, the lack of new innovations occuring would also affect everyone.
Butyou are right...it wouldn't affect you.
Posted By: Stephen (Guest) on July 26, 2009 at 07:26 PM
Um, no on that lame "page 16" talking point, Mrs. Bachmann:
It wouldn't "destroy private insurance" as you stated, instead it would force them into competition - which seems to be the only thing Republicans are pushing for when it comes to reform.
Somewhere along the way Republicans stopped understanding that healthcare insurance is NOT healthcare. They're not one in the same. Insurance companies are betting you don't get sick, and if you do it costs less to make you better than you've already paid into their programs or they'll find a way to get out of paying off your debts. Insurance companies could care less if their clients are sick - they just want to make sure they can pay their bills. That is NOT the government's role. They're supposed to protect their citizens, and one way is to offer a public option to those of us that just want to see a doctor if we're not a victim of the insurance monopoly. I'll happily pay more in taxes if it means I can see a doctor and not have to check with a telemarketer in India to see if I'm covered.
But no, Republicans can't argue it straight. They make stuff up, like Stephen did, or they make false comparisons while trying to paint things in extremes ("a public OPTION will lead to SOCIALISM!"). Sadly, the conservative Democrats (or Blue Dogs) are just Republicans who run with a D after their name and they'll end up killing the public option.
Which begs the question: what is the conservative plan to reform healthcare? I think it's probably the same as their plan for getting us out of Iraq or finding Osama. There is none.
Posted By: correction (Guest) on July 26, 2009 at 08:06 PM
Well done Joe, you got all the talking points in. Goverment knows better than individuals do when it comes to what is good for them.
Hopefully after health care and cap and trade, we can get the faitness doctrine passed.You can get rid of Enrique and we will get rid of Elizabeth.An echo chamber of left wing love.
Posted By: Joy Behar (Guest) on July 26, 2009 at 10:20 PM
Ah, Joy Behar, you're missing the point entirely. It's not that government knows better than people do, it's that government knows better than insurance companies. The worst Conservative talking point is that if government has a say, a bureaucrat will stand between you and your doctor. WHO RUNS INSURANCE COMPANIES? at least if the government is backing me, i know i will be taken care of and not cast aside as soon as it becomes unprofitable.
Our current health care system doesn't work. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. Just because you have a good insurance plan doesn't mean everyone else does. Nowadays it doesn't even mean MOST other people do. Tens of millions of people are uninsured. Insurance companies look for loopholes to refuse life-saving treatments. Hospitals refuse care to people who need it because they don't have insurance. The lives of millions are literally at stake.
Government-run health care isn't going to destroy the country. It didn't destroy every other major nation in the world when they implemented it. America didn't crumble when governments decided to start fixing roads, or giving out free education, or paying for our police and fire departments. That's what government is there for, to cover the things that otherwise won't get done because they're too big to fix individually. If the state of hospitals in this country is any indication, that is EXACTLY what needs to happen. Insurance companies don't have an interest in whether or not you live or die, they only seek monetary profit. If it becomes more profitable for you to die because treatment is too expensive, they'll try find a loophole to get out of it.
We can debate HOW to fix our failing health care system all we want to, but no one should at this point should be arguing for doing nothing. Those that do are ignoring the reality of this situation.
Politicians are going to go against this bill for political gain, but instead they should be trying to perfect it if they disagree with parts of it. So far the most vocal opponents have been unable to offer any alternative other than maintaining what already exists that is failing utterly. I wonder how many billions insurance companies have donated to their campaigns. Hmmmm... That just HAS to be a coincidence, right?
Posted By: General Sandoval (Guest) on July 26, 2009 at 11:05 PM
Actually, it would affect private and more effective health care because it would drive up costs. Read the bill more closely. Obama snuck in some wording that would destroy our health care system.
Here's how I see it. You socialists need to just govern yourselves instead of trying to force everyone into failure. If you want to spread the wealth, do it amongst yourselves.
Posted By: Michael (Guest) on July 26, 2009 at 11:50 PM
' We can cut costs by allowing the right to die for terminally ill people'
So will the HMO doctor be biased towards killing their extremely ill patients for the sake of profits? Does that sound like a good idea?
Take it a step further, should the hospital offer the family a cash payout for termination of the pain-in-the-ass patient that dares to suck their resources?
Posted By: Mikel (Guest) on July 27, 2009 at 12:10 AM
Why does everyone on the left think its a good idea for the goverment to get involved overseeing current private health insurance?The goverment will decide if my plan is good enough for me.That is not going to end well. I will be forced to go with a goverment plan for my own good
More goverment oversight in my life is never a good thing.
Posted By: Guest#1214 (Guest) on July 27, 2009 at 01:06 AM
uh hello, there are over 1,300 insurance compaines, i would say that is plenty of comeption, how about we get rid of the fraud in medicaid and medicare, that costs the american taxpayer between 60 and 120 billion, plus on iraq, hey morons we do have a timetable to leave, were leaving next year, but i guess u liberals missed that, despite obama is going with the same timetable, and another reason why costs are so high, is becuase of liabailty insurance doctors haver to buy, becuase they fear medical malpractice suits
Posted By: coby preimesberger (Guest) on July 27, 2009 at 01:59 AM
Blue Dogs.
Absolutely astounding. That's a new piece of terminology for me to digest. I think I'm going to need some pepto...
The Democrats are black-balling the bill not because they are conservative, but because they are getting their offices flooded with anti-bill hate. They know they're done in 2010 if it passes.
Posted By: The Man (Guest) on July 27, 2009 at 04:20 AM
"Take it a step further, should the hospital offer the family a cash payout for termination of the pain-in-the-ass patient that dares to suck their resources?"
That's a pretty dumb step. Why would the hospital offer a cash payout when they could just refuse to treat them as a way of eliminating the drain on their resources?
Posted By: J.D. Dunn (Registered) on July 27, 2009 at 01:02 PM
' We can cut costs by allowing the right to die for terminally ill people'
So will the HMO doctor be biased towards killing their extremely ill patients for the sake of profits? Does that sound like a good idea?
"Allowing the right" does not make it the doctor's call.
And of course it's a joke to pretend this bill doesn't seek to ultimately make the public "option" the only option. Or has Obama's own stance on this issue dramatically shifted since the campaign? We are being lied to. Again.
Posted By: Shockmaster (Guest) on July 27, 2009 at 01:31 PM
i'd like to speak on a few things: it will eventually effect everybody...what happens when your job, drops your private insurance and puts you in the government's plan? and you can say, well then i will quit my job and get medicare or medicaid...what you don't realize is that sooner or later that will not be an option either, it's going away...and you will be left with the government's option...if someone wants to live they have the right to live, and on the government's plan, basically they will be assisting suicide. some people just don't get it...and the police report sorry to say is the official word on the matter. done, period, end of story. just the fact that officers off all colors and race stood behind the arresting officer should say something. how about the officer that said that gates had gotten out of hand and said that the officer was just doing his job, really, if everyone was aloud to dissrepect officers, the system breaks down....and i will say it again, the government can undercut any insurance company on the planet, know why...because they really don't care about profit. simple as that...some people are just really stupid, and you mr. rivett are just one of many. your slanted views and opinions are really comical to me, the bitch of it is, though, is that you are not the only one who thinks like this. that makes me scared, scared for my country. because let's face it, if you guys get your way,(to quote chris jericho) the country will never, EVER, be the same again.
Posted By: hartfan (Guest) on July 27, 2009 at 02:54 PM
When are people going to understand that whether it is the government or an insurance company giving you coverage,someone is deciding what services you can get. And it is not the doctor. Plus the bill is setup to make it more cost effective for companies to cancel their insurance and force you into the "public option" The reason healthcare is so expensive for businesses is the state and federal forcing coverage that people may not want. My insurance currently offers all kinds of things that are nice but I could do without to lower the cost. As for those of you who think that with the public option you will see any doctor you want and get all the tests you think you need you are wrong. My mom is currently on "covertn" which is a state run health insurance for low income people and there ar so many restrictions it is sad. Is it better than no insurance? Yes, but people need to see that a government insurance will not change how you get care. There are thousands of clinics that provide quality healthcare to millions of people for free everyday. Why cant the government support these clinics with money and tax incentives instead of creating a whole new government program? But I quess then the govenment would not have control then.
Posted By: jerry (Guest) on July 27, 2009 at 06:39 PM
According to the census bureau there are 45.657 million people who are uninsured. Of the 45+ million there are:9.7m who are non-citizens,17 million make more than $50,000 and chose not to purchase health insurance,the CBO says that 45% will have insurance will have insurance in 4 months.Why? There is always people who are in between jobs and are have started a new job and are waiting for insurance to kick in.The kaiser foundation puts the uninsured who make less than $50k at 8.2m to 13.9m. Are we really ready to blow up the current system that provides insurance to a couple hundred million people to help less 10% of the people? There are things that can be done to help these people without a massive overhaul of the system. The current plans are about putting the power in the hands of government. As for cost insurance actually drives up the cost of health care because the consumer doesnt care. Does anyone shop around when getting a physical and see if another doctor provides the same care for less price. I dont and I should but what I do is go to the closes doctor without thinking about the cost. The only change we need in washington is to stop reelecting the same people over and over.
Posted By: jerry (Guest) on July 27, 2009 at 07:12 PM
hartfan: "if everyone was aloud to dissrepect officers, the system breaks down...."
to hell with that. I can say whatever the fuck i want to a police officer and have the right to do so. know why? because this is AMERICA and in AMERICA we have the right to freedom of speech.
it would be one thing if gates was assaulting the officer, but all he was doing was talking shit, and there is no law against that.
there is an expression for what the officer did: "abuse of power"
Posted By: jlevysan (Guest) on July 28, 2009 at 04:51 AM
I'm working on my analysis of this, but has anyone heard of the Patient's Choice Act of 2009? It is currently in the Senate Finance Committee... the very one that is still deliberating on which direction to go in with the Senate Bill. I'll write an article on it as soon as I complete my research... but it does get a tentative early thumbs up...
Posted By: J. Alexander Mitchell (Guest) on July 28, 2009 at 09:08 AM
Every American is protected by the military. Every American is served by the police. Every American can call the fire department if their house is on fire.
But healthcare? You have to buy insurance if you want to afford it. (And please, don't give me the whole "no emergency room will turn you away" spiel - can I get cancer treatments at the ER?)
The debate needs to be about why in the world healthcare is so expensive that we need insurance to simply afford it.
But like I pointed out to my friend a few days ago, and like Jon Stewart nailed Bill Kristol last night, why not provide all Americans with access to the healthcare our military gets?
It's because conservatives, who are fine with public schools and public police protection and public fire departments and a public military, think that public healthcare is REAL socialism.
Yet if FDR had given us public healthcare like he did public retirement for the elderly (social security) conservatives would be SOL and argue we need to privatize it. But meanwhile every American would at least have healthcare and wouldn't have to worry about having to gamble with an insurance company in between them and their doctors.
Posted By: correction (Guest) on July 28, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Funny how those dummies who were made at the gates "caller" are feeling stupid now that the 911 tapes are out. That poor lady didnt say anything racial. For now on only whites can be questioned for crimes. Morons!!!!
Posted By: danman (Guest) on July 28, 2009 at 10:23 AM
The Dow is up because the Street is finally seeing some positive signs that this clown's domestic agenda might actually be hitting some roadblocks. Notice the increase in the DOW occurred the week of Blue Dog opposition to the health care plan.
Posted By: Da Man (Guest) on July 28, 2009 at 10:23 AM
What employer will still offer health insurance as a benefit when the government will cover everyone? If a business spends 12k per employee on health insurance, then why not offer the employees 5k in raises and cancel their insurance? They won't be uncovered and the business saves 7k.
Posted By: Iron Knee (Guest) on July 28, 2009 at 11:06 AM
there is an expression for what the officer did: "abuse of power"
Posted By: jlevysan (Guest) on July 28, 2009 at 04:51 AM
Unfortunately, some people think living in a democracy gives them a right to act like a fucking idiot and think they are somehow immune from the consequences - pathetic liberal bullshit.
He deserved what he got.
Posted By: Mikel (Guest) on July 28, 2009 at 11:12 AM
to hell with that. I can say whatever the fuck i want to a police officer and have the right to do so. know why? because this is AMERICA and in AMERICA we have the right to freedom of speech.
it would be one thing if gates was assaulting the officer, but all he was doing was talking shit, and there is no law against that.
there is an expression for what the officer did: "abuse of power"
Posted By: jlevysan (Guest) on July 28, 2009 at 04:51
Here's another concept you may or may not be familiar with: You have to give respect to get respect, you weak, stupid cumbucket. I suspect you have problems with law enforcement because you act like a total shithead and then wonder why they don't treat you like a prince. Shit goes both ways. If you act like you deserve respect, I assure you, you'll get it. If you act like you...well, I guess I understand why certain people get mop handles up the ass.
Posted By: Antihippie (Guest) on July 28, 2009 at 11:51 AM
"some people think living in a democracy gives them a right to act like a fucking idiot and think they are somehow immune from the consequences"
Actually, yes. Which law says you can't be a "fucking idiot?"
Posted By: J.D. Dunn (Registered) on July 28, 2009 at 04:10 PM
Actually, yes. Which law says you can't be a "fucking idiot?"
Posted By: J.D. Dunn (Registered) on July 28, 2009 at 04:10 PM
Just because you CAN do a thing doesn't mean you SHOULD do a thing, you dumb cunt. As my old sergeant used to tell me, "You're free to choose, but you're not free to choose the consequences of your choice." That's the problem with liberal dicksnots like you...you want all the rights with none of the responsibilities.
Posted By: Antihippie (Guest) on July 28, 2009 at 08:00 PM
"Every American is protected by the military. Every American is served by the police. Every American can call the fire department if their house is on fire."
The creation and maintenance of a military is expressly outlined in the constitution and delegated as one of the specific and limited powers of the federal government. Police enforce the laws enacted by governmental bodies, and insofar as they are "public" they are funded, primarily, at a local and state level, not a national level. And as for fire departments, many communities do not have publicly funded fire departments. Often, emergency and fire services are provided by volunteers.
You're comparing apples and oranges to create a strawman.
It's like asking "If liberals are so pro-abortion rights, how come they don't support the death penalty?" Well, because they are two completely different things, that's why.
Posted By: Guest#8139 (Guest) on July 29, 2009 at 01:24 AM
"to hell with that. I can say whatever the fuck i want to a police officer and have the right to do so. know why? because this is AMERICA and in AMERICA we have the right to freedom of speech.
it would be one thing if gates was assaulting the officer, but all he was doing was talking shit, and there is no law against that.
there is an expression for what the officer did: 'abuse of power'"
Spoken like a true legal scholar. Why you are almost as well versed in constitutional law as the esteemed President of these 57 states!
Posted By: Sarcasm Intended (Guest) on July 29, 2009 at 01:29 AM
STAY CURRENT