So is Bill Clinton a Hero?
Posted by Jake G. on 08.10.2009
The Right seems to think otherwise.
So you may have heard that Bill Clinton went to North Korea and personally worked out a deal to seek the release of two American journalists who had been imprisoned there. Clinton went under direction from the Obama Administration but obviously anytime a former President uses his clout, he should get a large chunk of the credit. Especially when he does it hands on. Clinton got some press and the late night comedy shows made some jokes, but are there still some who are split on this?
When the Obama Administration first revealed this story, almost immediately Republicans were calling for it to fail. John Bolton said that we were now getting into bed with terrorists. Yeah, I agree, who really cares what Bolton has to say? He's always been an inept doofus. We'd never even heard of the guy had another inept doofus not given him a very important job. Still, what's with all the critics coming out and hoping that this operation would fail? Seems awfully un-American to me, especially coming from folks who were so quick to lob that label on anyone who thought even remotely different than them four years prior.
The mission not only was a success, but a rousing one with Slick Willy managing to get the prisoners released almost as soon as he got there. Within hours the story went from questions about why he was there to jubilation that he'd saved two Americans. However, the right immediately went on a vitriolic criticism spree. The AOL message boards (A good place to find out what the "common" GOP thinks) were saying one of two things:
1. Why couldn't Obama do it himself?
2. We gave them something big, we caved in and we should have just left those two there. They're guilty after all. Guilty liberal journalists.
Seriously? The first is so ridiculous that it doesn't even need answering. Weren't critics of Obama slamming him for even suggesting he'd talk to North Korea? So now they wanted him to personally go to the country? Nonsense. The second question though goes a bit back to the un-American bit. Do we as a society really need to call upon the imprisonment of our fellow countrymen in one of the most brutal regimes in the world, just so we can disagree with those on the other side of our political landscape? I was shocked to see how many people wanted Clinton to fail, but I was more shocked to see how many people called for the head of the journalists after the fact. Not North Korean people... American citizens.
What's your take? Is Clinton a hero for saving two Americans or did those two liberal journalists deserve exactly what they got?
I give him credit for taking the time to go over there, something he did not have to do.
I think its a bit of a reach to say he went over and personally negotiated their release within hours of his stepping off the plane. My guess is that the negotiations had already taken place between the two countries and part of North Koreas commands were a photo op with Clinton which he accepted.
Posted By: Stone Cold (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 01:30 PM
"2. We gave them something big, we caved in and we should have just left those two there. They're guilty after all. Guilty liberal journalists."
The two were reporting about the trafficking of North Korean women so yes, let's leave them to rot. Nothing worse then "liberals" trying to shed light on the injustices of the human slave trade. Anyone that says they should have been left there has pretty much revealed themselves as an ideologue, and their opinion is rendered worthless.
Posted By: Guest#5517 (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 01:55 PM
Listen, there are some people who are so vitriolic and will put politics before anything. Ff Obama had come out and said "The Sky is Blue." You would get at least half a dozen talking heads from the GOP coming out and arguing with him just because it was Obama who said it. Some would call him wrong or colorblind, others would argue that they sky should not be politicized, or why is he talking about the sky when there are so may other important issues etc. at nauseum. For some of these people facts are irrelevant, proving whomever is viewed as your opponent is all that matters.
And before some jackass comes and says "well liberals do it too...". Abso-freakin'-lutely. It covers the entire political spectrum.
Posted By: MydniteSon (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 02:06 PM
"I give him credit for taking the time to go over there, something he did not have to do.
I think its a bit of a reach to say he went over and personally negotiated their release within hours of his stepping off the plane. My guess is that the negotiations had already taken place between the two countries and part of North Koreas commands were a photo op with Clinton which he accepted."
I pretty much agree with everything. I don't know that you could call him a "hero" since apparently he just picked them up like kids at soccer practice, but I don't know how this can be viewed as anything other than positive.
Posted By: J.D. Dunn (Registered) on August 10, 2009 at 02:46 PM
You actually used the AOL message boards as a representative of the GOP?
Whoops, there goes your credibility.
Posted By: seriously? (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 03:08 PM
The way I heard it explained was that they would only release them to Clinton if he came over. Good for him in having the stroke (no pun intended) to get them out, but it seemed like a done deal, and IL just needed him for some photo-ops, or perhaps fresh pick up lines.
On the flip side, do these people not realize what they are doing when they go to investigate anything, especially human trafficking, in a communist country led by a total whackjob?? They could do (and probably did do) everything to the letter of the law, but he gets up on the wrong side of the bed and throws them in prison. Of course they were arrested and given obscene prison sentences just so this release could happen, but these two should be aware that they are putting their country in a bad spot. I'm not questioning the nobility of their intentions, but sometimes you have to look big picture.
Posted By: Duke (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 03:19 PM
The sky is overcast here, sort of grayish.
Partly cloudy later.
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 03:22 PM
They're not American, they're Korean. Haven't you seen their pictures? They don't look American to me so protesting the idea of wasting effort and resources is fully justified *sarcasm*
Posted By: Hah (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 03:46 PM
"The AOL message boards (A good place to find out what the "common" GOP thinks)"
AOL forums? Really?
"1. Why couldn't Obama do it himself?
2. We gave them something big, we caved in and we should have just left those two there. They're guilty after all. Guilty liberal journalists."
This is what you call a false dichotomy and a straw man argument. It is incumbent on any administration to secure the safety of American citizens at home and abroad. The only legitimate debate is over whether we went about securing their release in a responsible fashion that did not significantly compromise our foreign policy goals and did not reward Kim Jong Il in any significant way or offer him a major opportunity to grandstand and propagandize. Based on what I can see, we may have accomplished that goal, however, we may never be privy to the internals of the negotiations for the release of the journalists. Should we learn more, then it may be appropriate to scrutinize the methodology. Regardless, allowing these young women to "rot" was not a reasonable outcome, and JakeG just went hunting for an extreme, idiotic position to prop up and present as "common" sentiment. He must be taking lessons from the DNC.
Posted By: Irony NOW!!! (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 03:58 PM
" 2. We gave them something big, we caved in and we should have just left those two there. They're guilty after all. Guilty liberal journalists."
You mean like how the Daily Kos is a solid representation of the democrats? So they are all a bunch of anti semites who will make fun of people for making September 11 a day to remember. Also, every democrat thinks that Bush is Hitler and that communism works even though history disagrees. Oh, and let's not even get to Iraqis getting the chance to vote. I won't even go there.
Yep, it's fun to make a whole group into a stereotype.
Posted By: BKS (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 04:04 PM
"You actually used the AOL message boards as a representative of the GOP?
Whoops, there goes your credibility."
Not the GOP... but common republicans. I actually did the same thing around the last couple elections to see personally what talking points were sticking on both sides. Good resource.
Posted By: actually (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 04:47 PM
First Obama humiliates the US by bowing down before a Muslim leader, then apologizes to the Korean despot and sends his new lap dog there to bow down. Next step is to apologize to Russia for the whole Berlin wall fiasco.
Might as well castrate America and get it over with......
Posted By: Mikel (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 06:46 PM
AOL is a great resource to see what average Republicans think actually. It's not full of the worst nor is it full of the best. But it's a pretty decent representation of what the "average" one is saying.
For contrast I posted up what John Bolton, a top ranking GOP member (at least at one point) had to say as well. So I don't think I was slighting a point of view. I never said all Republicans felt that way.
It's no worse a way to gage something than a poll or survey.
Posted By: Jake G (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 07:31 PM
*Laughs*
Thanks for proving Jake G's point, Mikel. But, you fail to realize the point that is looking at you in the face. The only reason the United States will fail haa everything to do with people like you. For the love of God, you need to quit holding us back. I'm glad that there are people like Obama, Clinton, and others that keep the United States from becoming a country that would try to destory the world to prove a point...
Posted By: David (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 07:59 PM
Clinton only went cause the girls agreed to be his sex slave the whole trip home.
Posted By: Guest#3487 (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 08:38 PM
"AOL is a great resource to see what average Republicans think actually. It's not full of the worst nor is it full of the best. But it's a pretty decent representation of what the "average" one is saying....It's no worse a way to gage something than a poll or survey."
Except that there is a science to polling including measured sample sizes, demographics, and specific questions, among other things. I'm sure you employed all of these while you were lurking about the AOL boards guaging Republican opinion. Perhpaps that's too much to ask of an armchair political analyst looking for material for a hacky column.
"For contrast I posted up what John Bolton, a top ranking GOP member (at least at one point) had to say as well. So I don't think I was slighting a point of view. I never said all Republicans felt that way."
Actually, you raised Bolton simply to dismiss him as a doofus. I'd call that "slighting a point of view."
Posted By: Irony NOW!!! (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 08:57 PM
"Clinton only went cause the girls agreed to be his sex slave the whole trip home."
That is a bald-faced lie!
He doesn't care if they agreed to it or not. :)
Posted By: J.D. Dunn (Registered) on August 10, 2009 at 09:37 PM
David (Guest) - two points
1> I'm Canadian - I'm not holding anyone back from sucking up to despot regimes
2> Why does wanting to appear strong and not pathetically weak in the international political arena automatically mean I'm a war machine waiting to kill innocent people? Canadian peacekeepers have an awesome reputation around the world simply because we go where we are needed to help societies rebuild themselves.
This whole thing is beginning to remind me of how Europe pandered to Hitler in the months leading to WW2
Posted By: Mikel (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 09:43 PM
Clinton=Hero
Posted By: RJ (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 10:04 PM
Jake is Zimmer Jr. Thats not a compliment.
Posted By: Guest#0190 (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 10:08 PM
Mikel, if the world was a school you'd want America to be the spoiled, rich asshole that thinks he's hot shit and above everyone else. He sucks and America can certainly be better than that.
Posted By: Zingy (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 10:21 PM
Regardless of what they were trying to exploit - they broke the laws of the country they were in. If a foreign duo came to the US or Canada and broke our laws (even if they personally thought there was no wrong-doing), they would still be arrested/jailed depending on the situation. We basically sent someone to free two guilty women. Remember the uproar over the caning the US citizen received as punishment for his actions when in a foreign country? Crappy situation, but still -- if you go to another country and break their laws, you will have to deal with what their laws list as punishment.
Posted By: Dude (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 10:52 PM
Wow, we're suddenly so humane and lovely as a nation. I can't wait till Obama achieves his vision of "a world without nuclear weapons" that'll go over real well. That's next. Let's get rid of all of our weapons, while everyone else does the opposite. That's how we prove how civilized we are, by opening ourselves up.
Posted By: Mike (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 10:56 PM
Zingy (Guest) - interesting analogy but its the wrong one.
How about America be the boy that stands up to the bullies and protects others from them as well.
Instead of giving the bullies a hug for giving him a black eye.
Posted By: Mikel (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 11:00 PM
"Regardless of what they were trying to exploit - they broke the laws of the country they were in. If a foreign duo came to the US or Canada and broke our laws (even if they personally thought there was no wrong-doing), they would still be arrested/jailed depending on the situation. We basically sent someone to free two guilty women. Remember the uproar over the caning the US citizen received as punishment for his actions when in a foreign country? Crappy situation, but still -- if you go to another country and break their laws, you will have to deal with what their laws list as punishment."
There's a debate over whether or not they actually broke any laws. They were on the border of China and North Korea, supposedly still in China when they were apprehended by Korean officials. They had previously crossed into North Korea, but no one's saying specifically which country they were arrested in. If it was China then the arrests wouldn't be valid unless their was consent given by the Chinese government (unlikely). Y'know, like how the CIA got in trouble a few years back for literally kidnapping people in countries like Italy without the government's consent.
And the situation would certainly be different here as we don't jail foreign journalists simply because they're journalists. At worst, we'd deport them back to their home country if they were causing a disturbance.
Really, this was just Korea playing tough. They had something valuable, human lives, and saw it as a bargaining tool. This arrests were a farce, which is why they ultimately released the journalists. If they had truly committed grave crimes against the country then they wouldn't have released them as quickly as they did.
Posted By: Guest#4415 (Guest) on August 10, 2009 at 11:38 PM
Bill Clinton >>>>> Obama
BAR FRICKIN NONE
Posted By: Clinton >>>>> Obama (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 12:12 AM
Oh-kay, Mikel. I'm a little confused as to why the fuck you care about the standing of America in the international community if you are, in fact, Canadian.
Unless your vested interest in our redemption as a nation stems from some pussified concern that a supposedly weak, capitulant U.S will somehow leave Canada vulnerable by proxy.
And even in that case, your opinion's got about as much weight in this conversation as a fucking Canadian tenner in '03. Go worry about Harper and his horse shit, and leave the investment in the conversation to the actual citizens.
Posted By: Momo (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 03:09 AM
Yes.
Posted By: The Weesel (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 05:10 AM
"How about America be the boy that stands up to the bullies and protects others from them as well.
Instead of giving the bullies a hug for giving him a black eye"
Hope you plan on a draft to beef the military with those lofty goals...because according to you if we are going to take on EVERY bully in the world...well lets start a list shall we:
North Korea
China
Sudan
Have to throw Iran in there too right...nuclear arms and all that
We are already in Iraq and Afghanistan
So how do you plan on making all this work?
Considering you seem to be against diplomacy that doesn't leave many options other than going to war with people who disagree with us. Diplomacy is generally a give and take, but if you wont listen to the other side that isn't REAL Diplomacy.
BTW if you want to say Europe placated the Nazi's before WW II, I can point to NUMEROUS examples of that not being the case.
For example in England the king was Edward the VIII and he was the only one who had any sympathy for the Nazi's in 1935-1936, and he abdicated the thrown in 1936 (say it was for a women, but look closer and they wanted him out because of his feelings), The rest of the country and lawmakers did not want relations with the Nazi's at all and the king, as is true today, was just a figure head back then and held no real power.
Posted By: saywhat (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 09:20 AM
I always love how Americans express themselves by saying "we" when talking about their country. It would make you believe that theyre all together and all united, but what you find is half the country thinks America is the only country in the world, most of them will call you any name under the sun if you dont agree with them and seem to believe the whole world is jelouse and full of envy about them. News flash guys, America stopped being important when Bush Jnr took over. Other countries are now moving ahead and becoming far more important. Stay in your little bubble about how everything wants to take YOU over. More news flash. Most people dont give a shit about YOU so stop lumping yourself in with millions of others of your same nationality and be an individual. I know that word is frowned on, especially in America, but its what the rest of the world does. Probably explains why America is being left behind.
Posted By: Guest#6935 (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 09:36 AM
Momo (Guest) - We live next door to you, we are your largest trading partners and we are one of your most committed supporters.
Plus, your beer is watered down piss compared to ours.....
Posted By: Mikel (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 10:35 AM
Pay no attention to Mikel...He represents that 1/10th of the Canadian population. The one that secretly wishes for the War of 1812 to have a different result and have Ontario called “Michigan”. Insanity, eh?
Posted By: A REAL HONEST CANUCK (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 11:56 AM
They're not American, they're Korean. "Haven't you seen their pictures? They don't look American to me so protesting the idea of wasting effort and resources is fully justified *sarcasm*"
Wow. . .just wow. Your stupidity and clear racist views astound me sir. . Just because they are of Asian descent clearly shows us they are not u.s citizens, no they couldn't possibly have been born here could they. Do the world a favor and go into a street and shoot yourself, the world will be better for it without people like YOU!
Posted By: Guest#6024 (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 12:29 PM
Ignore "A REAL HONEST CANUCK" because he/she represents the other 10% of Canadians that are such pussies that they would rather hug a tree than deal with the realities of the world.
Posted By: Mikel (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 01:48 PM
Ah but I used the exact same science in my little test there Irony. Including a measured sample size and AOL already provided the specific questions. Sorry, but you're just wrong on this instance.
And yeah, I did point Bolton out as a doofus. However that's only because well... He is a doofus.
Posted By: Jake G (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 02:07 PM
Make a list of everyone criticizing Clinton or Obama for this. No one on the list need ever be listened to again.
Posted By: Shockmaster (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 02:18 PM
"Ah but I used the exact same science in my little test there Irony. Including a measured sample size and AOL already provided the specific questions. Sorry, but you're just wrong on this instance."
See, now you're just talking out of your backside. None of those things are pointed out in your post, and you provide no evidence of it whatsoever. You don't even link to the forum you lurked about in while performing your supposedly measured and scientific study. It's one thing to assert, as you do, that you somehow read the pulse of the "common" GOP by browsing measage boards. It's another thing entirely to assert, as you now have, that your lurking and note jotting somehow constituted an honest survey of opinion.
"And yeah, I did point Bolton out as a doofus. However that's only because well... He is a doofus."
Your assessment of Bolton belies the entire problem I have with your column. Like him or not, John Bolton has a lifetime of foreign policy experience, and while that does not make him right and you wrong about this particular issue, the fact that your only response to his criticism is an ad hominem attack underscores the fact that your post has nothing to offer in terms of analysis. However, your post is clearly not interested in analysis, rather its sole purpose, as I stated previously, is to present a false dichotomy of opinion that either makes the alleged "common" GOP look like hypocrites and buffoons or heartless, hateful bastards. It's partisan hackery. If that's what you want to put in your column, fine, but at least own it. Don't try to pass it off as some kind of illuminating look into the hearts and minds of the "common GOP."
Posted By: Irony NOW!!! (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 03:39 PM
Mikel, your right about the beer.(lots of other things as well) Mix in a micro brew instead of bud and coors next time.
Posted By: John (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 08:10 PM
as some already stated, dem or repub. it doesnt matter. obama could cure cancer. fox news would criticize him for putting oncology industry out of business. GW bush could have freed those journalists. MSNBC would criticize him for trying to overshadow obama and make him look bad.
i think it is sad when someone can do something good and get trashed for it just because they are from the opposing party.
Posted By: rey (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 10:56 PM
Actually Irony, my post is entirely about an analysis of a sample demo and whether or not the readers here feel the same way.
You can pass it off as "partisan hackery" if you want, but it doesn't make it so.
I made it pretty clear in my post that I had used one particular measuring stick, the AOL forums and I completely stand by the results. Anyone who has actually visited there (as opposed to just pretending to know it all) would easily concieve that it's a good source to get a sense of the pulse.
The Bolton story came as contrast because he was the one getting all the coverage prior to Clinton's victory. Possibly other high ranking GOP members spoke out with similar buffoonery but I didn't read any.
I provided a nice contrast. What the people who get the press say and what the people who subscribe to that philosphy say. End of story.
In order for it to even be partisan, I would have to be pulling for one side or the other. When in fact, I'm making a simple observation. The faux hatred from the right is so caught up in trying to slam anything and everything now that they've mixed their own pro-USA message.
This column was indeed a brief glimpse into at least a decent sized portion of the hearts and minds of the common GOP. You may not like it, but again, that doesn't make it any less so.
I'm always amazed that anytime the GOP's constituents make overtly negative statements (be them racist, anti-American or just generally ignorant) others in the part or defenders try to pass the buck as if it's some grand conspiracy to make them look bad. The fact is, that's what hundreds if not thousands of people said on that given day about this given subject on the AOL forum.
People will continue to point at the willfully ignorant comments that GOP regulars make so long as they continue to make them. No amount of wishing will take it away. Perhaps resources had be better spent on educating the GOP populus instead of turning away from them everytime they're exposed on any sort of larger stage.
Posted By: Jake G (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 11:27 PM
"JakeG just went hunting for an extreme, idiotic position to prop up and present as "common" sentiment."
I should also point out, I neither searched for an extreme or idiotic position. I simply looked at the positions being presented. They were extreme and idiotic, but I didn't actively seek them out.
Again, you quickly move away from those who supposedly have the same ideas as you and call them extreme and iditotic as an attempt to dilude yourself into believing that they aren't a big portion of your comrades.
Trust me, I'd much rather wrote about how the "common" GOP members had infinitely brighter opinions about the whole thing and taken Bolton to task for his own ignorance. It's just not what research results yielded.
Feel free to have the last word, naturally.
Posted By: Jake G (Guest) on August 11, 2009 at 11:35 PM
Only in the United States would people cry about someone saving two people's lives.
Posted By: Kent Baker (Guest) on August 12, 2009 at 06:40 PM
I'll admit upfront that I'm right-winged and we may critize, but at least we don't feel the need to talk ourselves up all the time, and we aren't two-faced(every democrat in the book has called for Mark Sanford's resignation, I didn't hear those people call for Clinton's resignation?) Infact, I'll go on record and say Clinton is NOT a hero, he put us in the economic shape we are in now by signing the NAFTA. But of course the Left wingers like yourself don't see it that way do they? They don't like the truth.
Posted By: JWestmoreland (Guest) on August 12, 2009 at 10:46 PM
"Actually Irony, my post is entirely about an analysis of a sample demo and whether or not the readers here feel the same way.
You can pass it off as 'partisan hackery' if you want, but it doesn't make it so."
Jake, you continue to stubbornly misuse the language of polling to prop up your informal lurking on a message board. Do you have any data that corroborates your assertion that an AOL messageboard somehow represents an accurate, proportional sample of the "common GOP"? Can you tell me anything about the make up of your supposed sample demographic other than the fact that they are AOL users? Did you keep an accurate tally of user comments that fell into your two categories and compare it to an accurate tally of comments that did not? If you did so, it is certainly not represented in anything you have presented here. Indeed, if anything you undermine your argument in trying to defend it:
"The fact is, that's what hundreds if not thousands of people said on that given day about this given subject on the AOL forum."
So you're now asking me to believe that you judiciously combed through hundreds, perhaps thousands, of posts on the topic, carefully recording who said "Obama should have gone" and who said "we gave them something big" and we should have just let the girls rot because they are evil liberal journalists? Please.
I think it's a shame that you've decided this will be "the last word" since I would sincerely like to see the AOL messageboard/forum you have been referring to. I did some research of my own, since I certainly don't want to be accused of being someone who is just "pretending to know it all", and I could not find any particulary AOL board devoted to political discussion, and what boards I could find that contained political content contained almost no discussion of Clinton's journey to North Korea.
"In order for it to even be partisan, I would have to be pulling for one side or the other. When in fact, I'm making a simple observation. The faux hatred from the right is so caught up in trying to slam anything and everything now that they've mixed their own pro-USA message."
It's a little breath taking to watch you assert that there's nothing partisan about your writing and then in the same paragraph follow up with a charged partisan observation. You laughably claim that you would have loved to have written about how "'common' GOP members had infinitely brighter opinions about the whole thing" but I think your rhetoric and your posting history here at 411 clearly contradicts that.
(continued in subsequent post)
Posted By: Irony NOW!!! (Guest) on August 13, 2009 at 12:02 AM
On the topic of Bolton:
"The Bolton story came as contrast because he was the one getting all the coverage prior to Clinton's victory. Possibly other high ranking GOP members spoke out with similar buffoonery but I didn't read any.
I provided a nice contrast. What the people who get the press say and what the people who subscribe to that philosphy say. End of story."
Your extremely limited paraphrase of Bolton's comments ("we were now getting into bed with terrorists") is hardly representative of Bolton's full commentary on the issue. Bolton's position is that Clinton's rescue mission sets a bad precedent in regards to negotianting the release of future American hostages and that Clinton's actions came "perilously close" to negotiating with terrorists. You're free to disagree with him on this point. As I implied in my original posting, I believe that if all we sacrificed was a photo opportunity, then it was a worthwhile endeavor. In this respect, I disagree with Bolton, however, I do think he raises an interesting point, considering we currently have 3 American citizens being held by Iran. However, you immediately go on to conflate Bolton's criticism with a desire to have seen the operation fail. While Bolton clearly believes this was a misstep, nothing in his commentary indicated a desire to see the operation fail. Indeed, Bolton consistently referred to the two as "innocent Americans" whom "[o]bviously all of us want to get them out." (Pardon the poor use of quotation, but I wanted to use his exact words. I understand you didn't have time to read, what with all the message board lurking.)
"This column was indeed a brief glimpse into at least a decent sized portion of the hearts and minds of the common GOP. You may not like it, but again, that doesn't make it any less so."
Jake, it's clear to me that you have a preconceived idea of who the "common" GOP are. This colors your perceptions and is evident in your writing, in this column and in past columns. I doubt there is much I can do to alter your bias, and I doubt even the scrutiny I've provided here will do much to persuade you that your conclusions on this matter are hopelessly misinformed and deeply colored by that bias. However, I will demand that when you choose to defame an entire portion of the population you at least have the decency to provide tangible evidence for what you are contending.
Posted By: Irony NOW!!! (Guest) on August 13, 2009 at 12:57 AM
I am not a registered democrat or republican - but I am a conservative - which by most people's ideas would place me in the Republican camp.
The AOL message boards have idiots on both sides - if you used the AOL message boards as a measuring stick for Republican or Democrat thinking, then we'd have one whole party made of mostly stupid and idiotic people.
What Bill Clinton did wasn't neccisarly "heroic" - I would call the women who suffered in N. Korea and then came back as the real heros - but it was definitely the kind of actions that should be applauded and should not recieve criticism - Clinton saved two Americans from one of the harshes envoirnment possible, and broght them back to their families.
Any criticism of this is simply ignorant, bipartisan bickering, kind of like using AOL message boards to get a feel for the "common" republican.
Sorry Jake, I don't usually make thoose kind of jabs at the writers here, but come on.
AOL?
Get serious.
Posted By: Stephen (Guest) on August 14, 2009 at 09:17 AM
STAY CURRENT