You Can’t Withhold Healthcare From Illegal Immigrants
Posted by Enrique on 09.17.2009
Stop pretending...
A heretofore unknown congressman made a name for himself last week when he yelled "you lie," during an address to Congress by President Barack Obama. South Carolina's Joe Wilson offered this assessment as Obama tried to refute "bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost." Wilson subsequently apologized for his outburst, although it's unlikely his constituents would have held it against him. Congressional Democrats weren't so forgiving, quickly passing a resolution of disapproval to further embarrass Wilson.
In fairness to Wilson, Obama lies shamelessly on the topic of healthcare reform every opportunity he gets – there's a greater chance we'll still uncover WMD stockpiles in Iraq than Obamacare being deficit neutral. However, it's worth noting Wilson wasn't moved to heckle until Obama made a claim about insurance coverage for illegal immigrants. Although there's some question as to whether Obamacare would actually cover the undocumented, that's beside the point – you simply can't deny healthcare to illegal immigrants. Anyone who says differently is selling something.
The story so far…
Here's the relevant footage from last week's address. Obama claims his plan wouldn't cover illegal immigrants at about 1:05:
Was it a lie? Some analysts have pointed out that the House bill, H.R. 3200, doesn't provide real restrictions on health coverage for illegal immigrants. If that analysis is accurate, Obama's fib is a lie of omission, which is a fairly innocuous form of dishonesty for your average Chicago politico. But maybe it's not actually a lie so much as a mistaken interpretation of the obtuse legal language congressional bills are written in. Still, no reason to worry – earlier this week, Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT) said he would include an amendment to ensure illegal immigrants can't participate in the new insurance marketplace, even if they can afford the full cost of coverage. I suppose the amendment wouldn't have been necessary if the original bill didn't cover illegal immigrants, but I'm sure the loophole is fixed now.
Or is it? The Congress is controlled by lefties, and you know how they are – always treating illegal immigrants like human beings rather than chattel. You just know they're trying to find a way to let illegal immigrants take advantage of the wasteful government programs that should only be available to real Americans. If there's one thing I can't stand about lefties, it's their sissy empathy for…oh wait, here's a poll that shows most lefties don't want illegal immigrants to have access to government-run healthcare:
According to a nationwide poll of 600 self-identified liberals and progressives, a majority of liberals oppose extending taxpayer-funded healthcare to illegal immigrants. The poll revealed that although liberals support a universal plan and agree with the President's handling of healthcare reform, many express concern that current proposals would extend healthcare coverage to illegal aliens and result in increased costs.
Hmmm, maybe the liberal consensus on illegal immigration is more nuanced than I'd been led to believe. Of course, you can make a poll come out with any results you like, but at the very least this suggests contempt for illegal immigrants isn't exclusive to the right, which might explain why no prominent Democrat is taking up the cause of insurance for illegals.
But is there a case for extending Obamacare to illegal immigrants? Why yes, there is. It's not a good case, but there really is no good case for universal healthcare. Still, let's have a look at this web-exclusive article from Newsweek that argues insuring the undocumented makes economic sense:
According to a July article in the American Journal of Public Health, immigrants typically arrive in America during their prime working years and tend to be younger and healthier than the rest of the U.S. population. As a result, health-care expenditures for the average immigrant are 55 percent lower than for a native-born American citizen with similar characteristics. With the ratio of seniors to workers projected to increase by 67 percent between 2010 and 2030, it stands to reason that including the relatively healthy, relatively employable and largely uninsured illegal population in some sort of universal health-care system would be a boon rather than a burden. […]
As it is now, undocumented workers (and others) who can't pay their way receive free emergency and charitable care—a service that costs those of us with health insurance an additional $1,000 per year, as Obama noted. But if illegals were covered, this hidden tax would decrease, further lowering our premiums and "relieving some of the financial burden on state and local governments," says Harold Pollack, a University of Chicago professor who specializes in poverty and public health. What's more, employers currently have a clear economic incentive to hire undocumented immigrants: they don't require coverage. A plan that mandates insurance for native workers but not their illegal counterparts actually makes life harder on the blue-collar Americans competing for jobs (and railing against immigrants) because it means that hiring them will cost more than hiring a recent transplant from Mexico City.
That's all well and good in theory, and government programs always work in theory – it's in the real world they get cocked up. The first point that illegal immigrants are healthier than average and thus would be a "boon" to the system exposes the inequitable premise of universal healthcare – younger, healthier (and typically less wealthy) people are forced into buying health insurance they might otherwise forgo in order to subsidize the healthcare costs of older (relatively wealthier) people. That may have a nice "social justice" ring to it, but it amounts to the government using coercion to limit our choices. There are many good reasons a person might choose not to buy health insurance, one of which is that he/she is between jobs and only uninsured temporarily. Rather than mandating health insurance for everyone – with a stiff penalty for people who refuse to be forced to buy something they don't want – one goal of healthcare reform should be to make insurance portable.
As for the argument about employers' incentive to hire illegals, there are two ways to deal with that. First, make it easier for low-skill workers to immigrate to the U.S. legally. The current process of legal immigration takes several years, and is too complicated and costly for someone who is only qualified to do blue-collar work. Our current immigration laws create an incentive for people to come here illegally, and they should be changed. Second, eliminate state and federal minimum wage requirements so that all workers can compete equally based on their skills. Arbitrary minimum wage laws price low-skill workers out of the entry-level job market, and create incentives for employers to hire the undocumented. Those may be unpopular solutions, but they're no less radical than advocating a partial or total government takeover of healthcare, which has always been the goal of Democrat-led reform efforts.
Regardless of the specifics of whatever healthcare reform bill eventually comes out of Congress, there is no reasonable argument for excluding its benefits from illegal immigrants. You can't withhold health insurance from illegals anymore than you can refuse to treat a car accident victim in an emergency room because he/she doesn't have a green card. That's the implicit consequence of what the Joe Wilsons of the world advocate, and they should be held to account. Does Joe Wilson really expect doctors to start denying life-saving medical services to uninsured illegal immigrants? It must be on his mind, since he wasn't moved to outburst until the prospect of illegals receiving coverage was raised.
If patriotic Americans like Joe Wilson are concerned about undocumented workers placing an undue burden on hospital emergency rooms, they should advocate market-based healthcare reforms that would reduce the cost of insurance for everyone. Whole Foods CEO John Mackey wrote an infamous op-ed on that very subject. I appreciate Wilson's opposition to Obamacare, but the best arguments against government-run healthcare are because it's too expensive, it will stifle innovation, and it will reduce our choices – not because illegal immigrants might get in on it.
I always hear about how easy it is to get healthcare at a hospital, but nobody I know of without health insurance has ever managed this. Maybe if you're dying they'll patch you up in the ER even if you they know you can't pay the bill, but usually for medical treatment the first thing you do is fill out the forms showing your health insurance and ability to pay.
I can't imagine *THIS* is the reason for healthcare being expensive. If illegals know all these loopholes they are far more educated and savvy than the average American, and should become attorneys or advisers educating the general public. Just my experience.
Posted By: Guest#7515 (Guest) on September 16, 2009 at 11:44 PM
This is more exagerations and lies by the crazy right wings. Has aol allowed them to take over this web site like they have talk radio?
Posted By: yvonne daniel (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 11:32 AM
Great article Enrique. On average you are the best writer for this site, although you still have some mis-fires every once and a while, like the article about the Presiden't speech to kids. But that's far better than Zimmer where EVERY article is a mis-fire.
The best part of this article is the part about how the gov't is trying to force young people who CHOOSE not to buy health insurance (like me) to buy it, pretty much just to subsidize the older, sicker populations. So not only am I going to wind up with tax increases from this whole deal, I'm also going to be forced to buy health insurance that I don't need. Thanks for making my wallet a whole lot lighter big government!
Posted By: Ben (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Many of the people who get upset that their tax dollars pay for emergency medical treatment of people who are here illegally also oppose making it easier for these immigrants to come here legally. Make a rational decision, please, and try not to base it entirely on how "dirty" you think Mexicans are.
Posted By: KanyonKreist (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 11:59 AM
I think that at this point we really cant stop illegal immigration the way most would like (IE get them out of the country now and keep them out).
So my suggestion is this: make them citizens. It will cost less of tax payers moneys than it would to round em up and get rid of em. AND (and here is the best part) we can tax the shit out of them. At least this way they arnt continuing to get free money from a system they put nothing into.
Either make em a citizen and start collecting, or get em out. Either way dont let em sit around collecting money from taxes that I pay (which is what is going on now).
And when it comes to "out sourcing"... I think that companies should be allowed to do so BUT it should have a tax levy that actually makes it MORE expensive to have an oversea's employee than it would to hire an American.
At least this way if they dont want to hire Americans, it will cost companies a lot of extra money to do so.
Posted By: AG Awesome (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 12:11 PM
Hire more Homeland Security and post them at hospitals. When the illegals come for free healthcare, they get caught and sent packing. Why should my tax dollars be used to pay for illegals health? It shouldn't. Let their own country deal with them and their health. They're not our responsibility anyways.
Posted By: Homeland Security Officer (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Actually Enrique if you didn't go through life with blinders on, perhaps you could get the other side of the story and see that there is in fact a case for universal health care
http://www.amsa.org/uhc/CaseForUHC.pdf
and for the record - "it will reduce our choices" Only applies to single payer system which is what is NOT being proposed in any form if you do the slightest bit of research on the matter.
Also as far as cost...I for one would be willing to pay more if need be to make sure everyone has...you dont want to go that route, that's on you. We spend Billions and Billions on wars and the fact of the matter is trying to spend some of that same money on something useful like healthcare and the argument is against is cost...is frankly a joke.
Posted By: saywhat (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 12:45 PM
And you want to solve the health insurance cost issue? Here is an idea: Increase Beer and cigarette taxes. As well as increase the tax on unhealthy junk food (while lowering it on healthy food, to encourage more people to choose something like an apple over a chocolate bar).
Not only would people eat less junk food, but the stuff that makes them sick in the first place will begin to pay for the amount of unhealthy people it creates.
Cigarettes should be outrageously expensive so that people either A: dont smoke anymore or B: pay for the cancer they inevitably get (and cause othersto get).
Drunk driving accidents will be a lot less common if beer costs more, because people will buy less alcohol when they are out.
Posted By: AG Awesome (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 12:58 PM
I think it's time to make illegals pay a lot of taxes. An extra penalty if they can't speak basic english.
Posted By: Fury (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 01:24 PM
We spend Billions and Billions on wars and the fact of the matter is trying to spend some of that same money on something useful like healthcare and the argument is against is cost...is frankly a joke.
Posted By: saywhat (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 12:45 PM
I assume from what you write that war is not useful. So being able to write what you want is not useful. The choice of owning a gun is not useful. The choice of quartering a troop is not useful. The choice of unreasonable search and seizure is not useful. The choice of due process, double jeopardy, and self-incrimination are not useful. I have a few more if you would like me to go on or is war still useless.
Posted By: Bill (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 03:33 PM
No way illegals deserve healthcare, unless they pay for it themselves with no gov't intervention. This should be for only legal citizens. ER's should only supply life or death care, and once the illegal is stable, turn them over to ICE for deportation so their own country can pay for their remaining care. It is not up to Americans to provide healthcare for the world's poor. Enforce our immigration laws !!
Posted By: deecal (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 04:11 PM
Glad to see racism's retarded bastard cousin nationalism making a comeback. Kudos to you sir!
Posted By: Guest08778 (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 07:31 PM
I love how so many people who are against illegal immigrants receiving any healthcare resort to the false claim that b/c illegals "don't pay taxes" then they shouldn't receive anything.
Helloooooo, illegal immigrants pay all the same taxes each and every American citizen does, for the most part. They are paying taxes at the pump, at the grocery store, the clothing store and any other place they purchase goods and services. Same with their monthly bills.
In addition, at most of their jobs if they are using false social security numbers, aliases, etc...they are having payroll, social security, medicare, and medicaid taxes taken out just like everybody else, the main difference being that the money illegal immigrants pay are taxes that go into the system that they CAN NEVER ACTUALLY CLIAM years down the road, so they are actually helping the system in that it is a windfall of money for the gov't from people who can never receive social security or medicare when they get older. So in essence one could say they are actually helping maintain the system by paying taxes for retirement benefits they cant ever receive.
Lastly, the vast majority of jobs that illegal immigrants hold are those which fall beneath the minimum income necessary to end up paying federal or state income taxes each year...so if they would not be paying taxes on their income anyway, then it doesn't really make a difference that they are not paying income taxes b/c they wouldn't be even if they were LEGAL citizens b/c they dont make enough money to where they'd have to them in the first place.
Posted By: somecoolname (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 08:03 PM
And you want to solve the health insurance cost issue? Here is an idea: Increase Beer and cigarette taxes. As well as increase the tax on unhealthy junk food (while lowering it on healthy food, to encourage more people to choose something like an apple over a chocolate bar).
Not only would people eat less junk food, but the stuff that makes them sick in the first place will begin to pay for the amount of unhealthy people it creates.
Cigarettes should be outrageously expensive so that people either A: dont smoke anymore or B: pay for the cancer they inevitably get (and cause othersto get).
Drunk driving accidents will be a lot less common if beer costs more, because people will buy less alcohol when they are out.
Posted By: AG Awesome (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 12:58 PM
While what you said has some merit, have sin taxes ever slowed alchohol comsumption or smoking habits enough to make a difference in medical costs?
Posted By: John (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 09:30 PM
Illegal aliens get FREE healthcare now! Imagine that! You are in this Country ILLEGALLY and you get FREE healthcare.
Illegal aliens have made America the dumping ground for all their illegal alien children, then we have to school them and give them free medical care.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSe3C5vMafM&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_ZnX9JRo5M&NR=1
I for one, am sick and tired of these ILLEGAL ALIENS snubbing their nose at our immigration laws and the many other laws of this Country. If our Federal Government can not ENFORCE our immigration laws, and get these ILLEGAL ALIENS out of this Country, then let the States do it! One way or another, an end has to come to this illegal immigration, and not with AMNESTY! Amnesty will only encourage more ILLEGAL ALIENS to invade our Country and reward those who broke our laws and raped the American taxpayer in many ways...depressing our wages, taking our jobs, overwhelming our schools with their ILLEGAL ALIEN children, driving without a license or car insurance, all the crime from stolen identities to rape, drugs and everything else.
It's time for ZERO TOLERENCE with these ILLEGAL ALIENS. It's time for them get out of this Country and back in their own Country where they belong. When we get rid of the ILLEGAL ALIENS, we will get rid of all the problems that go with them. THAT IS A FACT!
As for Joe Wilson, yes, he was a little rude and out of line, but he was right! He said he was sorry, I believe he was sincere. Let's move on now and get our immigration laws ENFORCED to put a stop to illegal aliens getting FREE healthcare st the American taxpayers expense.
Posted By: Delaware Bob (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 10:43 PM
I love how so many people who are against illegal immigrants receiving any healthcare resort to the false claim that b/c illegals "don't pay taxes" then they shouldn't receive anything.
Helloooooo, illegal immigrants pay all the same taxes each and every American citizen does, for the most part. They are paying taxes at the pump, at the grocery store, the clothing store and any other place they purchase goods and services. Same with their monthly bills.
In addition, at most of their jobs if they are using false social security numbers, aliases, etc...they are having payroll, social security, medicare, and medicaid taxes taken out just like everybody else, the main difference being that the money illegal immigrants pay are taxes that go into the system that they CAN NEVER ACTUALLY CLIAM years down the road, so they are actually helping the system in that it is a windfall of money for the gov't from people who can never receive social security or medicare when they get older. So in essence one could say they are actually helping maintain the system by paying taxes for retirement benefits they cant ever receive.
Lastly, the vast majority of jobs that illegal immigrants hold are those which fall beneath the minimum income necessary to end up paying federal or state income taxes each year...so if they would not be paying taxes on their income anyway, then it doesn't really make a difference that they are not paying income taxes b/c they wouldn't be even if they were LEGAL citizens b/c they dont make enough money to where they'd have to them in the first place.
Posted By: somecoolname (Guest) on September 17, 2009 at 08:03 PM
But they do not pay INCOME or PROPERTY TAX. Hello McFly. That is because they get paid under the table and no one enforces looking into shady businesses. WAKE UP!
Posted By: TAX MAN (Guest) on September 18, 2009 at 12:01 AM
"I assume from what you write that war is not useful. So being able to write what you want is not useful. The choice of owning a gun is not useful. The choice of quartering a troop is not useful. The choice of unreasonable search and seizure is not useful. The choice of due process, double jeopardy, and self-incrimination are not useful. I have a few more if you would like me to go on or is war still useless."
Are you retarded sir? When is the last time the King of England has tried to force you to quarter a troop? Or for that matter when has Iraqi done ANYTHING you spouted off.
Posted By: Eric (Guest) on September 18, 2009 at 09:34 AM
Not that I'm in favor of illegal immigration by any means, but I find it puzzling that so many people wish to direct their outrage at the immigrants themselves instead of the companies that hire them. So basically what we're saying is "these people are the scum of the earth, but its perfectly okay to use them for our own purposes." Nice.
Posted By: Josh (Guest) on September 18, 2009 at 09:58 AM
Right now sales taxes from goods are dispersed throughout different programs, normally for the state anyway.
What I am suggesting is a new tax increase (for example 1 extra dollar from all cigarette and alcohol purchases) which would go specifically towards some kind of government based health care reform plan.
Whether it is universal, a gov option, or something else, it would help cover the plan as well as encourage people to be more healthy by quite literally, saving a buck.
Also, when it comes to the insurance debates, I dont see why a gov option is considered a bad thing, as it would give one more insurance provider for current insurance agencies to try to compete with.
And to add to my illegal immigrants being made legal. I think there should be some very strict policy on their taxes. Not only do they have to put in extra, but they are not allowed to collect retirement until they have worked either 40 years or are 85.
They dont like it, head on home.
It isnt fair that my father, who worked since age 13 and retired at 65, is now working again as a janitor because retirement checks arnt cutting it.
This is mainly because illegals can in fact retire at 65 and still collect money from a system they put nothing into.
My system basically makes it so that there are no more illegal immigrants, just "new citizens" who will have to pay more.
And the fine for companies with illegal immigrants would basically put them out of business, hopefully discouraging that kind of behavior.
Posted By: AG Awesome (Guest) on September 18, 2009 at 10:35 AM
Maybe its just me, but isn't the key word "ILLEGAL". Maybe if they were legal residence, then it would be another story, but the fact is they're breaking the law. ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL no matter which way you cut it.
Posted By: Laws are Laws (Guest) on September 18, 2009 at 02:24 PM
Well good luck shipping millions of people back to Mexico. You're gonna need an army for that, but your fellow neo cons have our boys busy playing security guard in the sandpit.
Get them paying taxes and get them learning English, go through background checks and necessary paper work, maybe get them to pay a penalty fee, and voila, you racists can go back into your closets.
Posted By: Foolio (Registered) on September 19, 2009 at 12:17 PM
Illegal means illegal. Would you let someone who is on death row get free access to health care right away?
And I'm not one of those crazy minutemen. I think we should just go ahead and naturalize illegal immigrants and all immigrants coming into this country should just go ahead and become naturalized citizens.
I support basic rights to health care for any human being but we have to sensibly regulate it.
Still, how can we get immigrants healthcare when most of our citizens don't even have affordable health insurance?
Posted By: lilwayne1 (Guest) on September 20, 2009 at 11:43 AM
"Illegal means illegal. Would you let someone who is on death row get free access to health care right away?"
People on death row ALREADY have free access to health care, you idiot.
Posted By: The Great Hibachi (Guest) on September 21, 2009 at 03:51 AM