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 411mania » Politics » Blog Entry
As If the Tax Hike Wasn’t Enough, Feds Ban Flavored Cigarettes
Posted by Enrique on 10.01.2009





In yet another tedious example of state meddling with adults' personal behavior in the name of Protecting America's Youth™, the Food and Drug Administration has banned the sale of flavored cigarettes. This latest indignity comes seven months after President Barack Obama and his congressional allies hiked the federal cigarette tax by more than 150%. Since the president is a former (?) cigarette smoker himself, his continual interference with the rapidly-shortening lives of his erstwhile brethren is particularly galling. No one likes a turncoat.

The FDA sold this new policy as a way to prevent young Americans from smoking, citing one study that showed teenagers are three times more likely to smoke flavored cigarettes than adults. Even if that claim wasn't misleading (which it is), isn't it a little silly to worry about the smoking habits of adolescents when cigarette use has been on a massive decline for years? Why can't smokers just have their fruity fags? You've taken almost everything else from them – let them just have this one thing. Smokers are patriots, too.

The story so far…


Never gets old

The "flavor country" ban went into effect last week, and presumably the FDA expects us to be grateful for saving us from ourselves. Other than parents, who better to protect American children from the tragic consequences of teenage rebellion than self-important regulators?

"Almost 90 percent of adult smokers start smoking as teenagers. These flavored cigarettes are a gateway for many children and young adults to become regular smokers," said FDA Commissioner Margaret A. Hamburg, M.D. "The FDA will utilize regulatory authority to reduce the burden of illness and death caused by tobacco products to enhance our Nation's public health."

Flavors make cigarettes and other tobacco products more appealing to youth. Studies have shown that 17 year old smokers are three times as likely to use flavored cigarettes as smokers over the age of 25.

"Flavored cigarettes attract and allure kids into lifetime addiction," said U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Assistant Secretary for Health Howard K. Koh, M.D., M.P.H. "FDA's ban on these cigarettes will break that cycle for the more than 3,600 young people who start smoking daily."
I'm sure we would all prefer if teenagers didn't take up smoking habits. And I'm sure many of us who made that choice when we were teenagers wish we could have a do-over. That said, how can we be sure this ban will have an appreciable impact? The FDA says "studies have shown" teenagers are more likely to smoke flavored cigarettes than 25-year-olds. Not to be picky, but the press release only cites one study called "Use of Flavored Cigarettes among Older Adolescent and Adult Smokers: United States 2004-2005." Regrettably, I've been unable to locate a free version of the study online. The best I can do are abstracts such as this one, which indicate the report was compiled based on two telephone surveys several years ago. Two of the key findings were:

-In the [first survey], smokers that reported using flavored cigarettes most often were individuals 17 years of age (22.8%) and those 18–19 years of age (21.7%).

-Of the smokers in the [first survey] (age range from 17–26 years), 11.9 percent reported flavored cigarette use in the past 30 days. Among the [second survey] sample (age 25 and older), 6.7 percent of smokers reported flavored cigarette use.
As far as I'm aware, the legal smoking age is 18 in all U.S. states. For the most part, this data reflects the smoking preferences of legal adult smokers. As for the 17-year-olds, almost 23% of them reported smoking a flavored cigarette in the past 30 days. I don't mean to be obvious, but not every 17-year-old who smoked a cigarette a few weeks ago is destined for a lifetime of addiction.

Despite what you may have been led to believe, many people are capable of smoking occasional cigarettes without developing a serious habit. As of June, President Obama admitted he still indulged in the intermittent cigarette. I may be biased, but this study doesn't exactly suggest some kind of underage smoking pandemic is in our future. I'm sure there is a chance flavored malt beverages might encourage underage drinking, but that doesn't mean the FDA should ban Mike's Hard Lemonade and Smirnoff Ice.

These FDA busybodies probably have the best intentions, but the fact is flavored cigarettes represent a very small share of the cigarette market. According to Chicago Tribune columnist Steve Chapman, the FDA ban will have no noticeable effect on hot teen smoking habits. But he does have some good news:

[T]he number of kids using these products can't be very large. Michael Siegel, a physician and public health professor at Boston University, says that 87 percent of all high school smokers choose Marlboro, Camel or Newport, which don't come in tutti-frutti flavors.

No surprise there. Siegel says that teenagers smoke because they want to seem older. But smoking something that tastes like bubble gum sends the opposite signal. Even when flavored cigarettes were more widely available, the great majority of adolescent smokers found them about as appealing as a Raffi concert. […]

Lost in the government's propaganda is that if the tobacco companies are trying to recruit kids into smoking, they are doing a very poor job at it. Last year, the University of Michigan's Monitoring the Future Survey found that smoking among high school seniors is at the lowest level in the 33 years the project has been keeping track. Among eighth-graders, tobacco use is down by two-thirds since the mid-1990s; among 12th-graders, smoking rates have fallen by nearly half. Only 11 percent of 12th-graders smoke every day.
In other words, there was no compelling reason for government action here. It's just the state meddling in the affairs of a disfavored minority. If the FDA really cared about the dangers of flavored cigarettes, then it's peculiar the most popular cigarette flavor – menthol – wasn't included in the ban, no? FDA regulators may not be a bunch of grandstanding weasels, but they do a dead-on impersonation.

Brave heart, smokers. If you're a fan of flavored cigarettes, you'll still be able to get your hands on them. If we've learned anything from the failed war on drugs, it's that prohibition can't eliminate a product people want to buy, even if there's limited demand. As long as there's a market, some creative manufacturer will find a way to serve it:

The top distributor of clove-flavored tobacco products in the U.S. is asking a federal court to decide whether its new filtered cigars fall under a new federal ban on flavored cigarettes.

Kretek International Inc., which imports Djarum brand tobacco products from Indonesia, sued the Food and Drug Administration Sept. 22. […]

Moorpark, Calif.-based Kretek International recently began selling small filtered spice-flavored cigars that are close to the size of a cigarette but are wrapped in tobacco rather than paper and contain cigar tobacco. As part of the lawsuit, it is asking for a judgment from the court that its new products do not fall under the FDA's current ban.
I fondly remember smoking clove cigaret—ahem—cigars in my late teens. I suppose I'll have to give them a fresh look. And if the FDA eventually decides to ban them as well, no doubt there will be other options. Ultimately, this FDA action will have a negligible effect on teen smoking habits. But I'm sure several asshole bureaucrats feel better about themselves for capriciously exercising their power to interfere with the conduct of our private lives. In the end, that's what it's really all about.


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Comments (52)

 
Too bad all cigarettes can't be banned. Fuck them. They're disgusting, cancer-causing pieces of shit.

Posted By: Zingy (Guest)  on September 30, 2009 at 11:33 PM

 
 
I don't see the legalities in walking down the street, exhaling toxic carcinogens into my face. It's poison, plain and simple, and non-smokers shouldn't be subject to that shit whatsoever.

Posted By: Brian (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 12:16 AM

 
 
Alright! Now we can ban fast food and trans fat because those are bad for you. And then we can ban knives and guns so people will stop killing each other. And then we'll ban cars for being deadly to the environment. Then ban being outdoors because that's were bad stuff happens

Posted By: Steve (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 12:19 AM

 
 
Too bad all cigarettes can't be banned. Fuck them. They're disgusting, cancer-causing pieces of shit.

Posted By: Zingy (Guest) on September 30, 2009 at 11:33 PM

I don't see the legalities in walking down the street, exhaling toxic carcinogens into my face. It's poison, plain and simple, and non-smokers shouldn't be subject to that shit whatsoever.

Posted By: Brian (Guest) on October 01, 2009 at 12:16 AM

Thanks guys for reminding me why I should never waste time reading the comments in the politics section.


Posted By: Heyyo (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 12:49 AM

 
 
cigs are disgusting and are for disgusting people and NEED to be banned. end of discussion.

Posted By: Guest#1861 (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 01:28 AM

 
 
everyone knows their bad. People CHOOSE to use them. America is about FREEDOM OF CHOICE. Oh I forgot Supreme Commander Man of Steel II Obama runs this ship now. Bow down everyone.

Posted By: sp1 (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 02:47 AM

 
 
Hey Enrique, you're a decent writer, but all your pet causes are retarded and useless. Please spend some time writing about something that matters.

Posted By: poffo316 (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 06:39 AM

 
 
"Alright! Now we can ban fast food and trans fat because those are bad for you. And then we can ban knives and guns so people will stop killing each other. And then we'll ban cars for being deadly to the environment. Then ban being outdoors because that's were bad stuff happens

Posted By: Steve (Guest) on October 01, 2009 at 12:19 AM"

1- No one is blowing chewed up burgers down your throat.

2- Only hunting rifles should be in the hands of private citizens.

3- Nah, just the petrol-consuming ones.

4- I have a feeling you live this one.


Posted By: Q:? (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 07:07 AM

 
 
cigs are disgusting and are for disgusting people and NEED to be banned. end of discussion.

Posted By: Guest#1861 (Guest) on October 01, 2009 at 01:28 AM

Lets just have the government ban anything that is disgusting. We need someone to make these decisions for us.


Posted By: Justin (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 07:42 AM

 
 
"Too bad all cigarettes can't be banned. Fuck them. They're disgusting, cancer-causing pieces of shit.

Posted By: Zingy (Guest) on September 30, 2009 at 11:33 PM

I don't see the legalities in walking down the street, exhaling toxic carcinogens into my face. It's poison, plain and simple, and non-smokers shouldn't be subject to that shit whatsoever.

Posted By: Brian (Guest) on October 01, 2009 at 12:16 AM

Thanks guys for reminding me why I should never waste time reading the comments in the politics section."

If you want to smoke then smoke. But the fact is that cigarettes are a drug just like cocaine, heroin, pot, and any other substance we deem i"bad." You're an addict just like the fuck-ups that end up in rehab. Yours is just a socially acceptable addiction.


Posted By: Guest#8180 (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 08:08 AM

 
 
Thanks guys for reminding me why I should never waste time reading the comments in the politics section.

Posted By: Heyyo (Guest) on October 01, 2009 at 12:49 AM

You're an idiot. Those two are right. I'm a severe asthmatic -- cigarette smoke can send me into an attack bad enough to kill me in just a few short minutes.

By all rights, I should be able to mace someone in the face if they're smoking around me -- it's not even a tenth as bad as what they're doing to me. Sorry we don't support your filthy selfish addictive behaviors.


Posted By: luna (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 08:15 AM

 
 
"cigs are disgusting and are for disgusting people and NEED to be banned. end of discussion."

Posted By: Guest#1861 (Guest) on October 01, 2009 at 01:28 AM

I wonder what Guest#1861 does that some other people find disgusting? Fast food? Coffee? Soda? Gay sex? Why stop with cigarettes?


Posted By: Masked Defender (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 08:25 AM

 
 
You live in America, what do you guys expect?

Posted By: HAHAAH (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 09:50 AM

 
 
Someone please explain to me why we are being so hard on smoking, when alcohol is just as easy to get? Yes smoking can cause lung cancer; Drinking can cause liver cancer too. How many people have you known that have smoked a cigarette(or multiple cigarettes), got into a car, and committed vehicular homicide as a result of smoking a cigarette?? NONE, How many people have you known that have drank an alcoholic beverage(or many alcoholic beverages) and gotten in a car and committed vehicular homicide? COUNTLESS....The government isn't worried about our safety, they are worried about their wallet. Let see someone argue against that!

Posted By: JWestmoreland (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 10:02 AM

 
 
IF people REALLY cared about healthcare in this country the FIRST thing they would do is ban Cigarette sales in this country.

Not to mention I totally agree with what has been said about second hand smoke...the minute your "personal freedom" starts effecting someone else.....its not longer YOUR PERSONAL freedom.

Do away with them!


Posted By: barry (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 10:04 AM

 
 
looking at these posts above me i can't help but laugh. i can't believe that the douche bags over at the Truth campaign have actually been this successful at brainwashing the youth of america.

if you actually believe that occaisionally breathing in someone elses exhaled cigarrette smoke is going to give you cancer you are a fucking moron. second hand smoke is the most exaggerated pile of shit Truth promotes. Unless you literally live in a constant smoke cloud you are not going to get cancer.

and to the posters above who call it disgusting. thats your opinion and therefore doesn't mean shit to the rest of us. you don't like the smell, too fucking bad, deal with it.

best part of this is. i'm not even a cigarrette smoker. never have been, never will be. I just support basic american liberties. if the fed wants to ban smoking in public buildings or even enclosed private establishments fine whatever. but banning a product altogether for the peoples own good? fuck off. american adults have the right to make their own decisions in regards to their personal health. And if your argument is that it affects others health than you are a fucking moron.


Posted By: stronelis (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 10:21 AM

 
 
Banning cigarettes? Ha! With as strong as the Tobacco Lobby is in this country. Never gonna happen.

As far as I'm concerned, banning 'flavored' cigarettes is simply a political stunt to gain brownie points with the American public and at the same time a way to help big tobacco out. 'Flavored' cigarettes are a mere fraction of the market, but still a portion none the less. As far as I know, nearly all the 'flavored' cigarettes (clove & fruit being the target) come from import companies. I don't know of any big American tobacco companies that produce them (if I'm wrong, let me know). Notice Menthol is not being banned, which is a flavor produced by Big Tobacco. So big Tobacco gets a competitor taken out of the field and the government can claim a moral victory in that 'they are doing this for our own good'. Win win for everybody...except the right of the American people to choose.


Posted By: MydniteSon (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 10:55 AM

 
 
Mr. Mackey: "Let me tell you some'n' about smokin'! Uh, smokin's bad, m'kay. And uh, if you start smokin' at an early age, m'kay, it's gonna be bad. M'kay, because, uh, smoking can lead to all kinds of health problems like cancer. M'kay, and let me tell you something about cancer, m'kay. Cancer's bad, M'kay."

Posted By: Guest#7465 (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 11:04 AM

 
 
These MOTHERFUCKERS have banned clove cigs too, at least here in Pennsylvania. Nobody even smokes those! People only buy them because they're black and smell like Christmas-incense.

Posted By: KanyonKreist (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 11:14 AM

 
 
Hey Enrique, you're a decent writer, but all your pet causes are retarded and useless. Please spend some time writing about something that matters.

Posted By: poffo316 (Guest) on October 01, 2009 at 06:39 AM

----------------------------------------

Yeah! Instead of something like that silly "freedom" crap! It's overrated!


Posted By: sigh (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 11:47 AM

 
 
I've never smoked, nor do I care to. I also believe most people should try to quit. HOWEVER, if people want to kill themselves, then let them. It's ridiculous to come in here and say, oh they should be banned because they are disgusting or cause cancer. So does that 1200 calorie big-mac you are holding you gelatinous pile of poop or the fact that you wack off to transvestites dressed in your grandma's clothing. The point is there are a lot of disgusting things in this world but its a choice and should remain so.

And if they ban cigarettes, then your disgusting behavior (could be anything) could be next. Obesity, Lewd sexual practices, heck stamp collecting could be next. Think outside the box, we are a rare example of a country that allows Freedom of choice, let that continue or else you might not want to be around to share in the consequences: your loss of freedom.


Posted By: Kedrix (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 11:55 AM

 
 
To those saying that banning something because it is bad for you is wrong... should we legalize X? Crack? Cocaine? Heroine? The question isn't whether things should be banned; the question is where the line in the sand goes.

I don't think banning flavored cigarettes really makes a difference.


Posted By: J. Alexander Mitchell (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 12:12 PM

 
 
Folks that are posting comments agreeing with the ban just don't seem to get it. It's not about the fact that some flavored cigarettes have been banned. It's about taking away your personal choices. This is how it starts. Do we need to go back to the days of prohibition? You laugh and say that'll never happen; but the way personal freedoms keep getting snuffed in this country is alarming. Taxation without representation.

Posted By: Guest#7631 (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 12:20 PM

 
 
Just legalize weed and everything will be good.

Then again everything is good when you're Rob...Van...Dam!


Posted By: Rob Van Szatkowsk (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 12:40 PM

 
 
Whats that bill something about taxing all sugary drinks.. It all starts with cigarettes then rolls down hill. oh well i like paying taxes on stuff

Posted By: Guest#4765 (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 12:58 PM

 
 
There is a reason why I hate truth.org. I know people who've began smoking because those commercials are smug as hell. Either way, second hand smoke has been greatly blown out of proportions. They make it seem that someone smoking next to you is the equivalent of being stuck in a room on fire.

Posted By: BKS (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 01:05 PM

 
 
Interesting how fast some commenters are to give away rights they're not personally using. As I say to religious extremists, the law does not exist to enforce your personal views. This article is about banning the sale of a product, not where it is puffed. Some people have a deadly peanut allergy, should we ban those too? Of course not, because those people's rights end where yours begin, just like buying cigarettes.

Posted By: Jason Douglas (Registered)  on October 01, 2009 at 01:13 PM

 
 
First, full disclosure, I causally smoke. Meaning I think I've smoked 1 pack about once a year. I was 25 before I had ever smoked a cigarette and I'm 29 now. I usually smoke at nightclubs and other such places or have a cigar or two when I hang out with my friend who has a humidor. The ciggaretes I do (or did since they are now illegal) smoke are called Djarum Blacks, a clove cigarette popular in the old goth culture that I used to belong to. At time of ban they cost nearly $7 a pack.

Djarum cigarettes are made in Indonesia and by banning them we pretty much pissed Indonesia off because it was one of the largest exports to the US that they had and helped their economy, gave their people jobs and all the other fun stuff that exports can do.

Now that we banned them, they actually are complaining about it as it actually hurt their overall economy. They have since found a way around it as now they are marketing the same cigarettes as "Filtered Cigars" since flavored cigars weren't banned.

What's the point here? Nothing much, I just find it funny that the flavored cigarette ban pissed off a friendly nation and then they just found a way around it.

The other point, out of about 25 people I know that smoke, only about 5 of them had ever even had a flavored cigarette (except for Menthols which are still legal thanks to a last minute change to the bill as pushed forward by the Black Caucus) and their cigarettes when they were minors were pretty much the cheapest ones they could get.

So how was a $7 pack of premium flavored cigarettes acting as a gateway for kids?


Posted By: DeimosMasque (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 01:37 PM

 
 
"we are a rare example of a country that allows Freedom of choice"

unless that choice is to use cannabis, of course.


Posted By: Guest#1180 (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 01:43 PM

 
 
"Interesting how fast some commenters are to give away rights they're not personally using. As I say to religious extremists, the law does not exist to enforce your personal views. This article is about banning the sale of a product, not where it is puffed. Some people have a deadly peanut allergy, should we ban those too? Of course not, because those people's rights end where yours begin, just like buying cigarettes."

This is funny because everyone spouts off about personal choice but intentionally ignores J. Alexander's point about legalization. If you think cigarettes and alcohol should be legal on the grounds of personal choice, then do you also support legalization of all drugs?


Posted By: Guest#5811 (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 01:51 PM

 
 
To those saying that banning something because it is bad for you is wrong... should we legalize X? Crack? Cocaine? Heroine? The question isn't whether things should be banned; the question is where the line in the sand goes.

Posted By: J. Alexander Mitchell (Guest) on October 01, 2009 at 12:12 PM

----------------------------------------

It's simple. Your rights end where mine begin. As long as you harm only yourself, I don't care what you do.

The Statist doesn't care about your well-being. The Statist only wants to control your life and decisions.

Of course it starts small and harmless and uses a safe target. Who can argue cigarettes are good? Who can argue "caring for the environment" is a bad thing? When it turns from voluntary to forced, then you understand their agenda.


Posted By: sigh (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 01:58 PM

 
 
Lol fucking political hypocrites.

I'll take "Protecting America's Youth" seriously when 9/10 ads on sporting events aren't alcohol related of people partying and having a good time while destroying their livers and killing brain cells(instead of their lungs)

Cigarettes = capitalism = big business = conservative = EVIL


Posted By: Rehab (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 02:04 PM

 
 
Camel DID make "tuuti fruiti" flavors. They were called Signature Blends, and also Twists. No more of those for me, as honey IN THE TOBACCO is flavored. Ugh.

Posted By: James (Registered) (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 03:13 PM

 
 
"Cigarettes = capitalism = big business = conservative = EVIL"

Ummm...I don't think Capitalism, Big Business nor Conservatism are inherently evil. Is it propagated by a few Evil people who put the profit motive above all else (Even human life)? Yes. Just like certain individuals who practice Liberalism/Progessivism can be just as self serving and Evil. The individuals who practice said philosophies can be evil...but the philosophies themselves are not.


Posted By: MydniteSon (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 03:16 PM

 
 
"As far as I'm aware, the legal smoking age is 18 in all U.S. states."

Wrong.


Posted By: Guest#9782 (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 03:28 PM

 
 
Banning cigarettes in any place where people are trapped together is the only ban I can support on them. No one should have to deal with smoke at work, or at the movies, or on a plane, etc. Other than that, there is no justification in this country for banning cigarettes.

I mean, sure, someone could pass you by on the street, and oh horrors, you might need to breath it for a minute. Trust me, all the car exhaust you've been breathing all year is way more harmful than that minuteful of cigarette smoke. I don't hear a lot of talk on these boards about banning cars.

(I do like in San Francisco, and there is a lot of talk about banning cars HERE, but that's another rant.)

As a society, we should be working our way toward MORE freedom, not less. It's the most important thing we have in this country!


Posted By: xjuggernaughtx (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 04:13 PM

 
 
Alright! Now we can ban fast food and trans fat because those are bad for you. And then we can ban knives and guns so people will stop killing each other. And then we'll ban cars for being deadly to the environment. Then ban being outdoors because that's were bad stuff happens

Posted By: Steve (Guest) on October 01, 2009 at 12:19 AM

Hey Steve, many cities including Philly have already banned transfats, raise the hammer & sickle!


Posted By: ChefIan (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 05:52 PM

 
 
"To those saying that banning something because it is bad for you is wrong... should we legalize X? Crack? Cocaine? Heroine?"

Yes, and put an age restriction on it just like we do other potentially harmful drugs. And hold people accountable for their actions when under the influence, just like we do with alcohol.


Posted By: DeimosMasque (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 07:02 PM

 
 
Sorry, mean to say, LIVE in San Francisco.

Posted By: xjuggernaughtx (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 08:20 PM

 
 
everyone knows their bad. People CHOOSE to use them. America is about FREEDOM OF CHOICE. Oh I forgot Supreme Commander Man of Steel II Obama runs this ship now. Bow down everyone.

Posted By: sp1 (Guest) on October 01, 2009 at 02:47 AM

Obama is a smoker idiot... as if you couldn't see it in the photo. And this is coming from the FDA and has nothing to do with a push from the administration. Idiots like you are the reason fox news is still up and running.


Posted By: Tom (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 08:45 PM

 
 
Way to figure this out a week and a half after the ban already took effect. The time for thoughtful argument/grandstanding and bitching about this has already passed. If you actually wanted to do something about it, bring this up a little bit sooner. You're next chance will be when they ban cigarettes altogether. Or will you show up with your childlike diatribe to scream at an empty audience yet again?

Posted By: Scott_NM (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 08:49 PM

 
 
@sp1 (Guest)

ummm then i choose not to breath ur 2th hand smoke kthx


Posted By: mom (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 09:42 PM

 
 
I'm a smoker and I fully support any and all tax hikes on cigarettes. If the price causes one person to either choose not to smoke or quit smoking, then it is well worth it.

Personally I favor a Twinkie Tax as well. Any food with little to no nutritional value should be taxed like cigarettes.

The fallacy of libertarian arguments against such taxes is that we are still free to buy and use these items. Some like the slippery slope argument and just pretend like a tax or the hindrance of their use is the same as being made illegal...it's not.


Posted By: Ronny (Guest)  on October 01, 2009 at 09:56 PM

 
 
And this is coming from the FDA and has nothing to do with a push from the administration. Idiots like you are the reason fox news is still up and running.

Posted By: Tom (Guest) on October 01, 2009 at 08:45 PM

---------------------------------------

Yeah, they're totally independent from the top down, central planning style of governing from the White House. Sure. And when Eric Holder dropped the Black Panther case, I'm sure Obama had NOOOO idea about that one either, right? Just like Obama had no idea ACORN was getting federal money, when it's his ACORN cronies right beside him in the White House.


Posted By: sigh (Guest)  on October 02, 2009 at 12:26 AM

 
 
I'm a smoker and I fully support any and all tax hikes on cigarettes. If the price causes one person to either choose not to smoke or quit smoking, then it is well worth it.

Personally I favor a Twinkie Tax as well. Any food with little to no nutritional value should be taxed like cigarettes.

The fallacy of libertarian arguments against such taxes is that we are still free to buy and use these items. Some like the slippery slope argument and just pretend like a tax or the hindrance of their use is the same as being made illegal...it's not.

Posted By: Ronny (Guest) on October 01, 2009 at 09:56 PM

---------------------------------------

The fallacy of your argument is that you don't understand basic economics. The market will only tolerate taxes to a point before the black market (


Posted By: sigh (Guest)  on October 02, 2009 at 12:30 AM

 
 
Gee, So in a bad economy the Feds still have time To ATTACK something that is the Backbone of many local economies.

Thousands of people are employed by the cigerette companies. Tabacco farming has been a family buisness for many generations for many families, and a source of work in the rural areas.

This won't benifit anyone,

Also all this Pro-health stuff just means more old people sucking money from the goverment, PEOPLE Need to DIE so the rest of us can live better lives! Fewer deaths from cancer means more job competition, less food, and someone else polluting and wasting resorces.

BTW yes I'm an evil Cynic.


Posted By: Freakzilla (Guest)  on October 02, 2009 at 01:17 AM

 
 
If I get lung cancer from smoking, then it was my personal choice that made that happen. Don't Tread On Me.

Posted By: Patriot All The Way (Guest)  on October 02, 2009 at 12:46 PM

 
 
If I get lung cancer from smoking, then it was my personal choice that made that happen. Don't Tread On Me.

Posted By: Patriot All The Way (Guest) on October 02, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Bullshit. The first sign of lung cancer, you'd be standing at the hospital with your hands out expecting the taxpayer to pay for your chemo treatment. Then, if they refused, and submitted a $250,000 bill to you, you would cry about how unfair the medical system is.


Posted By: Mikel (Guest)  on October 02, 2009 at 04:46 PM

 
 
"By all rights, I should be able to mace someone in the face if they're smoking around me -- it's not even a tenth as bad as what they're doing to me. Sorry we don't support your filthy selfish addictive behaviors."

Tell you what, if I can put the cigarette out in your eye, then I will refrain from smoking around your sensitive lungs. Why are they so sensitive anyway? Just a weak genetic condition? I mean, I smoke two packs a day and I don't have the coughing fits.


Posted By: Ronald Reagan (Guest)  on October 02, 2009 at 04:58 PM

 
 
If I get lung cancer from smoking, then it was my personal choice that made that happen. Don't Tread On Me.

Posted By: Patriot All The Way (Guest) on October 02, 2009 at 12:46 PM

You all have to die sometime. That goes out to non smokers as well. Blame tobacco for your breathing problems. Do you people drive. What about the exhaust that comes from vehicles? I believe that is much worse to enhale then tobacco smoke. You people need to get a life and quit forcing your moral minority believes down everyones throat. You type of people make me literally sick to my stomach. If you want peoples rights taken away move to a counrty that is run by a dictator. Come back after living there and then tell us how great it is. Last I checked America is the home of the free, but its hard to believe with bullshit propaganda like this. Kids are going to find a way to smoke anyways, and if its not smoking then it will be something else. Wake the hell up, you tools. Alot of you come off as mindless sheep that cannot think for yourself, you need Big Brother to think for you. Let people live their lives and quit trying to force your pathetic lifesyle on others.


Posted By: Land of the Free? (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 12:41 AM

 
 
Yes, ban cigarettes, organized crime would love that...


I'd say someday this country would learn that prohibition doesn't work but then that would require people to learn something from history.


Posted By: PHOENIXZERO (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 01:54 AM

 
 
while i'd love to see cigarettes banned, I know that's not realistic. Concerns of second hand smoke and athesma are legitimate however, so I say that smoking in public places be a finable offence. I know many locations are smoke free, but it should be the inverse - only sections of public property with marked "smoking" zones are valid. Enforcing it is a whole other deal, but at the very least, it allows people with medical concerns to have freedom.

Posted By: jim (Guest)  on October 05, 2009 at 09:32 AM

 
STAY CURRENT

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