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 411mania » Politics » Blog Entry
So Explain This: You Say You Want A Revolution... But You Don't.
Posted by J. Alexander Mitchell on 10.03.2009



Historically, the United States loves change. Through our perfection of mass production, agricultural shifts due to the cotton gin, and even our very rise as a world power, punctuated with our usage of the atomic bomb, the country has embraced new technology and new direction to help us climb up the world's ranks. President Barack Obama was elected, functionally, on a platform of change. The Republicans were painted as the party of the status quo, and the Democratic party was painted as the party that would lead us in a bold new direction that would fix our ills. However, once the rubber met the road, it became very obvious very quickly that we have little stomach for sweeping change anymore.

I recently saw the documentary "Who Killed The Electric Car". The documentary functionally says that everyone: The state of California, the car companies, the federal government, the oil companies, etc., had a hand in ensuring that the electric car model EV1 was a failure. This seems to be the opposite of the attitude expected by the country that invented the light bulb. The question became "Why were all of these people so scared of an efficient electric car?" My hypothesis on the answer is that the amount of sweeping change that would occur because of the EV1 was not worth it to all parties involved.

Let's pretend for a moment that the EV1 was mass produced an offered in our current market. The vast majority of people do not travel a hundred miles in a single day, so unless you have an exceptionally long commute or are a professional driver of some sort (trucker, taxicab driver, etc.), the EV1 could service your needs without requiring any gasoline. I would like to repeat this statement for emphasis: For most practical usage that does not involve a road trip of some sort, you can effectively stop buying gas. I can't see the EV1 and cars like it not overtaking the market. Who wouldn't love that?

Oil companies, as an example, are the main answer. Whereas it is easy to dismiss their concerns as "big business", let's realistically think about this: How many Americans are employed by oil companies, either directly or indirectly? Could we really handle that many job losses due to a lack of demand for oil? I can only imagine how that would affect the Gulf of Mexico region and Alaska alone. As well, the movie bragged about how the EV1 required such little service – you just need to rotate the tires, and change the window wiper fluid. The difficulty here is that the standard internal combustion engine is far more inefficient than the EV1's engine… and entire industries have been built around the repair and maintenance of this inefficient engine. Now we've also put a large number of mechanics, car shops, etc. out of business. Let's not even begin to go into the "strategic partnerships" with other countries to provide us with the oil we "need".

Now, I do not want to say the electric car would plunge our country into chaos. We would adapt, just as we always do. When we began using robots on assembly lines rather than humans, massive jobs were lost but our country has managed to survive. However, I think it is obvious that we have little stomach for those "growing pains" anymore.

Let's apply this same reasoning to health care. Conservatives argue that any sort of public option would lead to a single payer health care system. I personally do not believe that a single payer system is problematic. We worry about government inefficiency, comparing the USPS to FedEx. However, the "alternatives" are very few in that scenario: FedEx and UPS. It is easy to maintain high levels of efficiency when you only have two other options. How many different health care insurance companies are there in the United States? I don't know the answer, but I know it is more than two. The administrative efficiencies of having a single place where all of the money comes and goes would be tremendous. This does not even begin to go into the power the government could have to lower prices since everyone would be negotiated together. However, as President Obama cited, this will never happen. We already have a system in place that utilizes private companies for insurance, and, as he says, it would be overwhelming to totally switch gears now. I would cite that it would not be "overwhelming", but it would indeed be a "revolution" – we would have to learn a new system, and entire industry would be gone, etc.. Does our country really have the stomach for that?

It is easy to be brave and move in "bold, new" directions when you are not on top. When your country is searching for the edge to surpass other countries, it is easy to take risks and reap the rewards. However, we have spent the last seventy-to-a-hundred years on top of the mountain, and it takes a lot more to move us now. Is this the best direction to move in? I have always been inclined to say that the cultural and technological advances we embrace can only help the nation move forward into prosperity. However, do you want to be the one telling that to the offshore driller that has found his skill set reduced to a totally unmarketable state?

Of course, there is always the chance that "the market" will always prevail no matter what. Coming this year (according to their website): The Aptera 2E, an "electric" car that gets the equivalent of 360 mpg. In early 2010 we will see the hybrid Aptera 2h, which will use have a tank of up to 5 gallons and a range of around 600 miles because of it. I personally think that, whenever it comes out, we can begin the countdown for the retirement of the internal combustion engine – we may still have hybrids, but I simply can't see a standard car surviving against that sort of competition - unless they greatly inflate the price. On the one hand, at a rumored cost of between $25,000 and $45,000, I'd give regular cars another twenty years or so. On the other hand, I didn't hear about the Aptera until I stumbled upon it in a web search. That doesn't exactly sound like a good start for marketing success (assuming I'm not VERY out of the loop in car technology, which may be the case).

So here's my question: How long do we delay progress in the name of avoiding the growing pains that go along with this progress? Is progress worth a few thousand jobs?


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Comments (31)

 
46 million people didn't want THIS change.

Posted By: Guest#5346 (Guest)  on October 02, 2009 at 11:01 PM

 
 
How about until the people who are pushing change are not corrupt?

I don't mind exploring a utopia with you, but I hate the idea of giving corrupt fucking politicans a reason to tax the shit out of me...

Healthcare reform is a great idea until you factor in the only reasons why Obama or the libs want to do it is to raise tax revenue...just like Cap and Trade...just like the Stimulus...just like the Bailouts.

If they put enough of the country into debt, and that "country" is the working middleclass...then they have destroyed what America is supposed to be.

It's opportunity to succeed, it's not a promise...and not at the expense of the middleclass.

Obama has tax cheats in his own cabient...men who take bribes and don't pay taxes.

You know what would be revolutionary? Stop supporting them because of your political ideology...

Throw all the motherfuckers out. Vote for the people who are not backed by banks, and corporations.

Fucking healthcare...it's bullshit to even be discussing. How about we get rid of the corruption in our government before we drop another trillion dollar bill onto our heads?


Posted By: Grant Muioc (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 12:12 AM

 
 
Guest#5346,

If you are referring to the 2008 Presidential election, you got your figures wrong. John McCain received 46% of the vote, not 46 million votes. In actuality, your point could have sounded even more impresive if you had used the correct figure which is 58.3 million, but you were too excited to make your point that taking one extra minute to fact-check your figure was just too much to bear.

The fact remains however, that President Obama received 66 million votes and is thus our lawful president.

I guess the reason why I jumped on the relatively minor mistake earlier is because I see a very disturbing element within the conservative movement; a blatant disregard for facts. From Glen Beck errorneously reading the Constitution, arguing that a provision protecting slavery actually referred to taxing immigrants, to death panels, and the birthers, the truth has gone out the window.

It is one thing to disgree, another to be wrong.


Posted By: Mike (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 12:42 AM

 
 
There is a huge demand in U.S for Medical Assistants. People should get a degree in Medical Assistant and get a job find more at http://bit.ly/440dpp

Posted By: peggybradley (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 01:07 AM

 
 
"Progress" = Socialism?

Posted By: Spirit of '76 (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 02:52 AM

 
 
"I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it."
---John Stuart Mill

I would like you to think about that for a second.

Now, I want you to think about the intelligence of the average person in the United States.

With that in mind, it wouldn't be too difficult to realize why the United States is generally conservative.

Being progressive/liberal allows a person to understand that any situation lacks perfection. There are things that need to changed/innovated for the good of all; however, any change bring uncertainty.

Uncertainty places the individual in an uncomfortable position. Comfort comes for the status quo. So, some people would rather keep things the same instead of improving their lives. It is moronic, to say the least, but what do you expect from the sturm und drang of our society? No matter how horrible the situation, most people would rather deal with the enemy they know instead of the unknown.

With all of that in mind, I thank God there were the adventurers that elevated our position on this planet. If we could only live by the status quo, we would still live in caves and wait for lightning to create fire for us.

At its very core, invention/innovation is liberal in nature. If people were really conservative, they would be Amish. I'm tired of these faux conservatives. They are as genuine as George Bush's "Mission Accomplished" celebration.


Posted By: David (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 03:16 AM

 
 
This country was founded not on trailblazing or frontiership or patriotism, but on one thing: GREED! If it makes us money, we do it. To hell with helping the little guy, the only time we do that is if it helps us make more money. The New Deal was the same thing, yes it helped by setting up Social Security among other things, but in the end it took the worst financial crisis in history to do it. The electric car, health care reform, green initiatives, all of that will only pass if there's profit to be made as a result. As much as liberals try to push to help the lower class, this country was founded conservative, and continues to be conservative in every sense. The only time true change comes is when it is financially necessary for it to occur. Until then, watch your electric car get killed yet again, the health care bill get torpedoed (or at least pass while lining the insurance industry's pockets), and green bills to fail. In the Dollar we Trust!

Posted By: Joe (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 03:27 AM

 
 
to the above guest...
A)I believe you mean 59 million unless you know for a fact that 13 million McCain voters checked off the wrong box
B)69 million did want change
C)The article doesn't even mention Obama.
D)you're a whiner.


Posted By: Guest#5733 (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 04:04 AM

 
 
Societies that are unwilling to change typically have change thrust upon it. Either from the outside by more powerful societies, from the inside due to violence from the citizens, or due the complete collapse of the system.

The modern world's current course is not sustainable. It seems that most would prefer option three over the other two.


Posted By: Q:? (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 07:12 AM

 
 
To Guest 5346 -

Millions more DID want this change.

Epic Republican fail.


Posted By: worthythorn (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 09:01 AM

 
 
We don't need a revolution in Canada

You guys in the States sure as hell do though


Posted By: Kent Baker (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 09:43 AM

 
 
FedEx and UPS aren't efficient. I worked in a UPS Store, helping to box and ship packages for customers. Shit was always getting broken or lost. If you saw how packages got handled once they reached the distribution hub, I don't think you'd be talking about efficiency. I think you'd be amazed at how anything every actually made it through.

Posted By: Guest#7173 (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 12:33 PM

 
 
As long as you try to respect the wishes of every single citizen, it's always going to be two steps forward, two steps back; there has ALWAYS been that significant portion of the populace who rejects progress.

Posted By: KanyonKreist (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 12:51 PM

 
 
Haven't seen the movie on the electric car, I still think you are WAY underestimating the amount of shit we'd need to overcome to make it a true reality, and I actually like the IDEA of electric cars.

OK, where do you charge them and how long does it take? Look how long it takes to charge an iPod, now try to imagine how long it would take to do your car.

It's also all well and good if you live in the suburbs and have your own spot to charge the car. What if you live in a Tenement or apartment building, or park on the street at night? Would it be a job benefit if your employer allowed access to car charging? Would mall workers be allowed to charge their cars while they were in the stores?

Not only would the petroleum industry be severely impacted, farmers who grow goods that are developed for bio-diesel would get whacked hard as well.

Throw in the possible monopoly by the electric companies on 80 percent of the energy produced in this country AND the amount of power needed to CHARGE all the cars on a power grid that is ALREADY bursting at the seems.

I don't see how it makes sense at this time. Just because you aren't paying for gasoline does not mean you are driving "for free" and I wish people would stop making that assumption. I am too lazy right now to do so, but has anyone come up with a conversion of kw/h cost to run an electric car over a combustion engine? Is the battery storage unit like an iPod, where after a few years, you'll need to throw another one in? How much do those cost? Are the spent batteries recyclable or just adds to the amount of waste, and are they harmful to the environment?

These are all just things off the top of my head. I think it's a balanced article, but probably pie-in-the-sky at this point in time.


Posted By: Krunchy (Registered)  on October 03, 2009 at 02:36 PM

 
 
If China wants it . . . (and they do)
. . . then it will happen!


Posted By: Guest (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 03:47 PM

 
 
To those that mentioned the health care thoughts: that paragraph represented less than 20% of the article (I ran it through Word's word count and calculated). Any thoughts on the other 80%

To Krunchy: Allow me to start by saying that I have no doubt that a totally efficient electric car is doable and undoubtedly affordable. With that said, I'd have no clue if the Aptera is that car, as I have no immediate intention of buying one. I am two years away from finishing off paying for my current car, so I am (hopefully) five years away from buying another vehicle. With that said, some of these questions are answered on the Aptera website (they claim it costs about fifty cents a night to charge the car, for example, and the company is based in CA, so I assume they are calculating with a pretty high electric charge). Others are a function of a large scale adjustment (such as car charge ports). Of course, my statements ASSUME large scale adjustments such as this.

However, here's my real thought; the EV1 was released in 1996. Moore's Law tells me that, IF it's desired, most of the kinks in that car would have been worked out by 2010.


Assembly lines created the same sort of large scale job losses... but that didn't stop us. Of course, as Joe might add, assembly lines were PROFITABLE...


Posted By: J. Alexander Mitchell (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 06:33 PM

 
 
" Look how long it takes to charge an iPod, now try to imagine how long it would take to do your car. "

My Macbook takes two hours tops, I think they'd be able to figure something out.


Posted By: Joe Kerr (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 07:09 PM

 
 
BTW - To Krunchy - I glossed over the hybrid version of the Aptera, mostly because I wanted to focus on the possibilities of a totally electric car. However, a hybrid version of the Aptera is announced for next year; this versions 5 gallon tank should cover a number of the concerns people have with an electric car.

Posted By: J. Alexander Mitchell (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 07:32 PM

 
 
Haven't seen the movie on the electric car, I still think you are WAY underestimating the amount of shit we'd need to overcome to make it a true reality, and I actually like the IDEA of electric cars.

OK, where do you charge them and how long does it take? Look how long it takes to charge an iPod, now try to imagine how long it would take to do your car.

It's also all well and good if you live in the suburbs and have your own spot to charge the car. What if you live in a Tenement or apartment building, or park on the street at night? Would it be a job benefit if your employer allowed access to car charging? Would mall workers be allowed to charge their cars while they were in the stores?

Not only would the petroleum industry be severely impacted, farmers who grow goods that are developed for bio-diesel would get whacked hard as well.

Throw in the possible monopoly by the electric companies on 80 percent of the energy produced in this country AND the amount of power needed to CHARGE all the cars on a power grid that is ALREADY bursting at the seems.

I don't see how it makes sense at this time. Just because you aren't paying for gasoline does not mean you are driving "for free" and I wish people would stop making that assumption. I am too lazy right now to do so, but has anyone come up with a conversion of kw/h cost to run an electric car over a combustion engine? Is the battery storage unit like an iPod, where after a few years, you'll need to throw another one in? How much do those cost? Are the spent batteries recyclable or just adds to the amount of waste, and are they harmful to the environment?

These are all just things off the top of my head. I think it's a balanced article, but probably pie-in-the-sky at this point in time.

Posted By: Krunchy (Registered) on October 03, 2009 at 02:36 PM

Bullshit on several points.
First being the monopoly angle.
http://hackaday.com/2009/10/02/hacker-rewarded-for-creating-electricit
y/#comment-98523

Smart kid but a kit like that could be created by anyone with a working knowledge of electricity,or for a very nominal fee to have someone else make it.

My lithium ion batteries take 15 mins to charge,so charge time could be made reasonable.

The matters of charging "Hotspots" would be similar to wifi hotspots only much easier to market.
Theres a new industry in itself.

The point on bio diesel is valid and i agree,but lets face it-farmers have been getting railroaded with a fist shaped,spiked fuck toy for a long time now.
they are a pretty adaptive bunch.

Anyone making the claim "drive for free" is either working you or living a pipe dream.

New areas of expertise in the automotive repair industry would arise for sure.
This is 50/50 i mean i have a good mechanic but how many horror stories are there?


Posted By: Showster (Guest)  on October 03, 2009 at 08:26 PM

 
 
David,

How can one person be so dumb?

The "Mission Accompished" sign that you bring up...it was for the aircraft carrier that was in the Persian Gulf supporting operations.

It was celebrating them- after wiping out a fucking Republican Guard Division with bombs and helping complete the invasion.

Missions are parts of operations- mission accomplished happens everyday for the most part...

Operational success is based on mission accomplishment.

Fucking libs...you politicized the war the moment the elections came around in 2004. Vilianized everyone working over there in the middle-east.

But had no balls to cut off funding for a war "you don't believe in and is illegal"...no fucking balls.

Now we got libs in control who can't even manage the war at all.

Where is your little rant defending that?


Posted By: Grant Muioc (Guest)  on October 04, 2009 at 11:58 AM

 
 
"I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it."
---John Stuart Mill

Posted By: David (Guest) on October 03, 2009 at 03:16 AM

Are you serious with this? Do you have some random percent that you totally made up or got from some wiki page.


Posted By: Guest#9422 (Guest)  on October 04, 2009 at 12:40 PM

 
 
Great article that gives both sides an honest perspective on the topic.

Yeah, we need to lessen our dependence on fossil fuels but yes, it has to be done in a manner that respects the working families that make their living off of fossil fuels.

The market will dictate the speed of that change - not socialist tree-huggers.


Posted By: Mikel (Guest)  on October 04, 2009 at 10:53 PM

 
 
The irony is that Mill was critiquing those arguing for government control of trade, (the Conservatives). The Conservatives were opposed to those advocating free people and free markets absent government intervention. (the Liberals).

It is also funny that I have heard several pundits who are pro-government intervention use this quote over the past few days.

I just heard another misuse the quote on CNBC's Power Lunch.


Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest)  on October 05, 2009 at 12:46 PM

 
 
Grant Muioc,


"Fucking libs...you politicized the war the moment the elections came around in 2004. Vilianized everyone working over there in the middle-east."

No... YOU politicized the war when you impugned the patriotism of every American who thought it was a shitty idea to begin with.

"But had no balls to cut off funding for a war "you don't believe in and is illegal"...no fucking balls."

Anyway, two points I'd like to make here. First of all if democrats DID vote en masse to cut off funding, you would be whining and complaining that we threw our troops out there without the proper funding to survive. Is plainly obvious that you're grasping at straws, looking for something, ANYTHING to complain about.

Now we got libs in control who can't even manage the war at all."

So the democrats can't manage the war? Is that why The violence in Iraq is dying down? Seems to me that we're not only managing the war, we're WINNING the war.


Posted By: jlevysan (Guest)  on October 05, 2009 at 03:06 PM

 
 
Great article! I think, in my own lowly opinion, that the transition to all of the oil-based job losses and whatnot, would not happen as quickly as you let on. Your prediction/theory assumes that everyone runs out and buys this new electric car within the first couple of years that it's out, when many people won't be able to afford a new car. There would still be oil needing to be drilled, and probably a good majority of oil-based jobs kept in the immediate future. Obviously, over time, these jobs would be lost. But maybe a program could be instituted where these oil workers are trained to recycle old cars, or manufacture electric motors, etc.

I think we could do it, but much like the health care debate, like you said, there will always be those with power trying to protect the status quo. But again, great article.


Posted By: James (Registered) (Guest)  on October 05, 2009 at 03:25 PM

 
 
Electric cars? What kind of Hollywood bullshit is that? You think electricity is what powers the hemi that powers the country? Bullshit!

You're just trying to sell me something.. or to get me to buy into your bullshit politics.


Posted By: Mr. Bergis (Guest)  on October 06, 2009 at 02:27 AM

 
 
We as a country need to exercise our 2nd amendment right, and take back it back from the politicians.

Posted By: me (Guest)  on October 06, 2009 at 01:18 PM

 
 
There are always people who are resistant to change everywhere somewhere in the world at some point in time.

Posted By: Guest#5671 (Guest)  on October 07, 2009 at 01:47 AM

 
 
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.

Posted By: Thomas Jefferson (Guest)  on October 08, 2009 at 11:34 AM

 
 
The extent of the economic changes (disruption, for some) if the EV1 had lived would be incalculably LARGE, from oil-change-joints to the dealer network (did you know it takes more employees to sell and service a car than to make it?).

I'd at least like the Oil-Auto companies to be honest, for once, and stop lying about how "no one wants an Electric car". The fact is, they are scared stiff of the EV because almost everyone who drives one (we have two Toyota RAV4-EV in our driveway right now, 80 mph and over 100 miles range, Chevron stopped Toyota from making them in Nov., 2002) WANTS one.

So why not stop lying to ourselves, at least, and admit that the Oil-Auto companies, and the timid portion of the public, are afraid of the impact that would occur if reasonably priced all-electric cars were available for sale on the free market.

It's not that no one wants them, it's that Oil-Auto lobby is frightened to death of Electric cars, and willing to do almost anything to preserve their monopoly, their profit, their power, and their control of the U.S. economy.


Posted By: Doug Korthof (Guest)  on October 09, 2009 at 09:37 AM

 
 
Over four decades ago, I wondered what would happen to GM when the America people, for whatever reason, stopped buying new cars every year or two. Now we know.

This country WAS founded on trailblazing, frontiership, patriotism, and a lot of out-of-the-box thinking to innovate and to solve problems; but it appears that a small part of our country evolved into very greedy and now extremely powerful forces. The oil company that locked up the patents for the NiMH batteries that are the best for viable electric vehicles is one of those greedy and powerful forces. Unfortunately this is nothing new in the world. The cartels that controlled wood, then coal, and now oil have historically operated in a similar manner.

Having been fortunate enough to lease and drive a factory-built electric vehicle for six years, I know that: they work, they are clean, they are economical (my commute costs dropped by a factor of six - and that was 10 years ago), and best of all they are fun to drive. Through the greed and inappropriate self-preservation efforts of large oil and auto companies, the electric car I leased (and could not purchase because it was never offered for sale) was confiscated and crushed six years ago, and I now cannot purchase or lease a factory-built electric car. But that will change.

I enjoyed the John Stuart Mill quote posted earlier (Oct 3) and the three sentences following it. While a 1arge segment of Americans believe the advertising paid for by the greedy (and unpatriotic) oil and auto companies and cannot think for themselves, there are still some trailblazing, out-of-the-box innovators who will ultimately become patriotic heroes by providing an option for those of us who want to drive electric.


Posted By: Jon Myers (Guest)  on October 10, 2009 at 01:54 AM

 
STAY CURRENT




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