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 411mania » Politics » Blog Entry
What Constitutes a Fair Wage?
Posted by Jason Douglas on 10.09.2009



My previous article looked at how wealth in America has been redistributed over the last twenty years, and the role federal taxes have played. The numbers show decisively that those in the top half hold a higher percentage of income than before, while the bottom half has lost ground. Wages at the lower end of the spectrum have stagnated, with many people having to work two jobs just to make ends meet. Meanwhile, expenses from medical care to utilities to groceries have skyrocketed. College tuition has risen exponentially, and with it the opportunity for those with low or even moderate incomes to improve their situation is slipping away. These are the facts.

A few comments made a statement to the effect that one group gaining ground doesn't necessarily come at the expense of the others. If, for example, GDP goes up significantly, the top 1% could see their income double while the bottom half see their paychecks increase by 30% or so. In this hypothetical situation, everyone is making more money than before, so everyone wins, right? This is where things get more philosophical. Based on the quality of comments last time, I think we can discuss the subjective side of this issue without it devolving into a shouting match. Income and taxes impact all of our daily lives, so it's an emotional subject. The problem with emotions is they can cloud our perception. Certain people have a chip on their shoulder, and are just waiting to erupt about their fiscal pet peeve. They're skimming this article as fast as possible so they can rant about welfare queens, immigration, or whatever ticks them off. I challenge such people to take a deep breath, calmly take in everything here, give it meaningful thought, and THEN offer your own view.

As I said last time, capitalism is the most successful economic model ever devised. No one even offered an argument to the contrary. The heart of capitalism is the ability to improve ones position. Those who invent, innovate, or acquire a marketable skill set gain the opportunity to make more income than those with little training who work in unskilled jobs. If janitors and lawyers made the same income, no one would go to law school. As a practical matter, there must be an incentive for people to invest time and expense in training for advanced lines of work. Also as a practical matter, personal incomes cannot exceed the revenues they generate for an employer. These practical realities rule out a system where we can decide in a vacuum what a certain job is worth. A nurse who catches a mistake on a chart in time to save a patients life contributes more to society than a guy with a great curve ball, but she doesn't generate the ad revenue needed to pay her $15 million a year. On the surface, this seems to represent a fundamental flaw in the system. Shouldn't those who contribute the most to society while working the hardest have lives that reflect their contributions?

This brings us back to the suggestion that as long as paychecks generally go up, it's okay for the distribution of total wealth to keep skewing toward those who are already well off. My problem with this situation is that jobs have not fundamentally changed to justify the change in income sharing. That nurse has seen her benefits deteriorate and her wages rise slowly while doing the same job. Given that we have a shortage of health care workers, this is just the opposite of what we should expect. She can't simply go to a hospital that pays better, because this is happening across the board. Meanwhile, our $15 million pitcher belongs to a players association which battles with ownership over revenue sharing. The players in essence tell ownership that there would be no league without them, so they deserve a bigger cut of the money being made from their labor. This brings up a critical principle in our discussion.

Our economy is not merely the sum of its individual companies, each operating for its own benefit. If GM and Ford had closed, factories that make parts would also close. The restaurants surrounding those factories would close, etc. There is a ripple effect which can't be ignored. Workers are the same way. Just because someone is in a field or income level different from yours, it is short-sighted to believe that what affects them doesn't affect you. This morning, I turned on my bathroom light, turned on the shower, used numerous hygiene products, put on clothes I didn't make, ate food I didn't have to gather or hunt for, got on a bus I neither built nor drove, road on streets I didn't pave, to reach an office I didn't build and do a job I didn't create. Think about how many people it took to make the first two hours of my day possible. Modern conveniences make it far too easy to take these things for granted. You couldn't do your job if countless others didn't do theirs, and those others are people of all backgrounds and abilities.

Those who invest time and great effort to develop themselves professionally deserve a bigger share of the wealth than those who don't. Nothing I've written should be taken to suggest otherwise. But there's an odd quirk to human thinking. If your tax rate was 25%, and was gradually lowered to 20%, you would of course be fine with it. If a few years later someone wanted to raise your rate to 22%, you would be outraged. But the outrage has nothing to do with the number, just the fact that it's an increase. Be honest, when a tax hike is suggested, do you reach for a calculator to see what it would cost you, or do you just start shouting? When both the Bush and Obama tax cuts were proposed, I performed a simple exercise. I figured out roughly what I would get, asked myself whether that amount would meaningfully change my ability to get by, and compared it to what would be cut to cover the lost revenue. My net income is easily enough to both get by and reward me for having gone to college, so I don't need a tax cut. Reduced funding to student loan programs so I could have a few extra bucks seemed like a terrible trade-off. The less a person makes, the less relief they get, so those who most need help making ends meet don't really get it. That made no sense to me, so I opposed both cuts. You might carry out the same thought process and reach a different conclusion based on your own situation. But at least think about it rather than having a knee-jerk reaction.

These observations lead me to a few conclusions. Since no one has a superior alternative to capitalism, it should remain our economic system. That means we must forgo attempts to externally set salaries and wage levels. It also means tax rates should not be used to manipulate how much money someone ends up with. We can't set a hard cap on income and effectively take away anything over that through taxation, because it would hinder innovation. None of these conclusions, however, prevent us from putting measures in place to control living expenses for those having the hardest time getting by. I hear a lot of resentment over any government intervention expressed with the idea "I work hard for my income, why should I have to pay for things for others?" The answer is because their hard work contributes to the life you enjoy just as much as your own work does. Look around at home and tally up what you've spent on things you wouldn't even miss if they weren't there. Before you say low wage earners don't deserve help because one of them had the audacity to buy shoes nicer than yours, think about how many of them it took to make your trip to work possible. If the apocalypse came and you were the only person left, your quality of life would plunge no matter how hard you worked. This is true because the life you live today is not the sum of your individual efforts, but the benefit of being part of a society. So much more can be accomplished when people unify behind a common goal. When it comes to our economy, why would we do the opposite?


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Comments (17)

 
"Our economy is not merely the sum of its individual companies, each operating for its own benefit. If GM and Ford had closed, factories that make parts would also close."

So if demand for autos is 10 million a year, should we just subsidize the building of 12 million cars a year just to keep Ford and GM in business?

The tone of your article seems to imply an answer of "yes we should, because they need jobs, and give those 2 million cars to the 'less fortunate' while we're at it"


Posted By: Eric (Guest)  on October 09, 2009 at 12:40 AM

 
 
"Our economy is not merely the sum of its individual companies, each operating for its own benefit. If GM and Ford had closed, factories that make parts would also close."

So if demand for autos is 10 million a year, should we just subsidize the building of 12 million cars a year just to keep Ford and GM in business?

The tone of your article seems to imply an answer of "yes we should, because they need jobs, and give those 2 million cars to the 'less fortunate' while we're at it"

Posted By: Eric (Guest) on October 09, 2009 at 12:40 AM

Numbskull, the auto industry is the last bastion of the American industrial base. The same plants that make the materials for these cars also make a lot of other materials for things we need. There is already a large trade deficit that is only getting bigger, and if we continue to import everything prices will just continue to rise and quality to fall. Do we really want China running our country completely?


Posted By: Joe (Guest)  on October 09, 2009 at 03:49 AM

 
 
Ya know, I've always been a big proponent for more government assistance for the lower working class, but this argument really puts the debate in an interesting perspective that I hadn't considered. Very valid points, and very well written. Kudos.

Posted By: Joe (Guest)  on October 09, 2009 at 04:02 AM

 
 
"So if demand for autos is 10 million a year, should we just subsidize the building of 12 million cars a year just to keep Ford and GM in business?"

That's not how I took that point at all. He's simply saying that if GM and Ford closes, there will be a ripple effect that will hurt many other related businesses, and so the impact of their closure will be felt widely throughout the economy.


And he's not necessarily arguing for federal subsidies at all, but let's for argument's sake say that's the issue. The real question then becomes, is "Is society, on balance, better or worse off if GM and Ford are bailed out/supported through the crisis by the government?"

To answer this, we need to look beyond the mere cost of supporting the companies, to see how much it would cost the government to pay unemployment benefits to all the workers if they lost their jobs, and work out how many other businesses would fold, how many other employees in related firms would lose their jobs, how much THEIR unemployment benefits will cost, how many people's livelihoods will be damaged, how many homes will be foreclosed as a result, how many children face the prospect of being thrown on the street, how many medical insurance schemes would become null and void and how many might then become ill, etc. etc.

And then compare the economic AND social harm (that has value too right?) and set this against how much it will cost the government to simply provide a helping hand, with the possibility of getting that money back at a later date anyway.

When you do the cost-benefit analysis (taking into account economic AND social costs and benefits), a strong case can be made it's BETTER for the government to help GM and Ford, then to do nothing.

That cost-benefit analysis is ever stronger when you look at the banks. If the governments of the world did nothing, and we applied the conservative mantra "government funding is evil, don't spend and just keep tax low", then banks worldwide would have collapsed, and we could be in the midst of a major worldwide economic depression that would cost MILLIONS, if not BILLIONS of jobs worldwide. Isn;t the social and economic harm of this GREATER than the government providing the boost it did through cash suopport?

It's all about cost-benefit analysis to me; taking into account both economic and social impacts of DOING something, versus doing NOTHING. It shouldn't be a left-right issue; simply a neutral analysis of which yields the most gain to society as a whole.

I believe that's what the author of this article was saying, and on that it's hard to disagree.


Posted By: Steve (Guest)  on October 09, 2009 at 05:06 AM

 
 
My main problem with what we call "capitalism" these days is that it's not the old school "sweat of your brow" kind of capitalism where you work hard and you get ahead or even the "think bigger" kind of capitalism where you come up with a good idea & get rich... we have more of a corporate oligarchy, the same politicians sit in power forever (at least in congress/senate), and corporate "policy" gets passed off more and more as "law" to the common folk.

Car dealerships don't even haggle anymore... what kind of world do we live in?!


Posted By: Guest#5234 (Guest)  on October 09, 2009 at 05:55 AM

 
 
No Eric, I actually feel very strongly that the government is doing more harm than good in its meddling with the auto industry. That was merely an example of the fact that the failure of one industry could have a domino effect. I hated the "cash for clunkers" program because it artificially produced a temporary boost in demand which cannot be sustained. That just means the auto industry is denying the reality that demand may never be what it was before easy credit dried up. The cold hard truth is many lost jobs existed to produce goods and services which were being bought on bad credit, and for that reason those jobs should not come back.

What I object to is the overly simplified outlook of some that if they don't work in that industry it's not their problem. In the big picture it's an illustration of the damage poor banking regulations have done. Our boom and bust cycles have gotten so severe that we nearly had another Great Depression. Besides hardship for so many, these peaks and valleys open the door to justify government meddling. I don't want Washington running our banks, I just want them to act as watchdogs so the private citizens who do run them can't gamble away my savings.


Posted By: Jason Douglas (Guest)  on October 09, 2009 at 09:46 AM

 
 
Lots wrong with this article, but I'll start with my most controversial point. The notion that a nurse who saves a life by detecting a flaw on a chart being worth more to society than a $15M pitcher who people pay to see. Now, all human life is precious and we should do everything we can to save it, but using your arguments, she is NOT worth more than a $15 million pitcher is to society. That $15M pitcher draws 50,000 people to the ballpark, which in turn helps employ hundreds of people, such as the janitors, peanut vendoes, etc. who you say we need to be concerned about. So unless the guy that nurse saved is creating tons of jobs himself or is somebody that thousands of people would pay to see do something, that nurse has NOT contributed more to society than the $15 million dollar pitcher.

Again, not to be crude about it, and god bless our nurses, but I only use that to turn your argument around on you since while you see fit to give token lip service to capitalism, you don't seem to demonstrate in this article that you understand how it really works and all the good it creates for people.

Plus, I will assume your example of the nurse comes under a free-market health care system, where she is incentivized to actually find those flaws, as opposed to government run health care, where her wages will be artifically supressed by government and her incentive to work and find those mistakes will be punished rather than rewarded because saving this guy will cost the government more money to treat him.


Posted By: Da Man (Guest)  on October 09, 2009 at 10:27 AM

 
 
Don't necessarily disagree with the point of the argument. Generally, I would prefer everyone's life to be better. But that is an ideal.

"None of these conclusions, however, prevent us from putting measures in place to control living expenses for those having the hardest time getting by."

Defining the "measures", "control", "living expenses" and who are "those having the hardest time" is wrought with conflict. They do not have unique solutions.


Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest)  on October 09, 2009 at 11:59 AM

 
 
Da Man:

"Certain people have a chip on their shoulder, and are just waiting to erupt about their fiscal pet peeve."

I wouldn't call your comment an eruption, but getting from this article to a rant on government run health care was quite a jump.

As for my "lip service" on capitalism, my underlying point is this: the fact that a system yields clear advantages over others doesn't mean that it's a just system which works for everyone. You can support a policy while still seeing its faults and trying to address them. There's too much of an all or nothing mentality where if someone supports anything but pure capitalism, they're called socialist or communist.

"So unless the guy that nurse saved is creating tons of jobs himself or is somebody that thousands of people would pay to see do something, that nurse has NOT contributed more to society than the $15 million dollar pitcher."

You seem to be saying that generating revenue is more important than saving lives. That's a rather grim view of the world. I get that you're weighing the impact the pitcher has on other lives against one hypothetical patient. But those people could get jobs doing the same thing elsewhere, or enter another line of work. When someone is DEAD, that's it.

This is why I said we're getting philosophical. If you only count dollars and cents, your argument can work. I'd like to think we're above measuring human worth by profitability. A person's contribution to society can't just be measured fiscally.

If a scientist invented a cure to Alzheimer's disease, but it resulted in the elderly living longer and actually costing more to take care of, did the scientist make a negative contribution to society? I'd say clearly not. Now, if the inventor of the Snuggie has created a thousand jobs, but his invention is completely frivolous, is his contribution to society greater than that of our scientist?


Posted By: Jason Douglas (Registered)  on October 09, 2009 at 12:51 PM

 
 
Maybe I havent been paying attention but has there EVER been a proposal that does away with a "free-market health care system"?

Probably just people assuming the worse when in reality it's not even close to being the case.

In a capitalist society where money is the most important thing, it is its what every one strives to get by any means necessary, just look at walmart....nurses, doctors, teachers, police, Firefighters, military personal will NEVER get a "fair" wage for what they do. Because they do NOT effect the economy and employ people as Da Man mentioned.

Sports teams employ thousands of people and stimulate the local economy around the stadium (as an example)...and while there job isn't nearly as important to society as the ones mentioned above, in order to pay those people more (since the majority are government workers, state or federal) that would mean raising peoples taxes to help pay for it in some way and...well we know how THAT usually goes over with people.

Bottom line is baring something like the French Revolution in this country this isn't going to change anytime soon, and politicians from every walk of life and political affiliation can say what they will...they wont be changing things either, it runs to deep in politics and our culture at this point.


Posted By: bobby (Guest)  on October 09, 2009 at 01:14 PM

 
 
LOL...well, you brought up the nurse, dude, so I used it as a jumping off point to make a jab about health care. Technically, I was entitled. Good one though, I liked that.

Nope, I would agree that the doctor who finds a cure for Alzheimer's would definitely be more beneficial to society than the snugee guy. But I would also like to think that such an accomplishment would be rewarded handsomely. Not many people can cure Alzheimer's and in a true meritorious capitalist society unencumbered by third-party bureaucrats imposing their views of fairness, I would think such an accomplishment would yield momentous monetary and spiritual rewards. But while spiritual rewards are nice, it has been shown time and again throughout the world that building a society on "good intentions" that are dictated by government fiat usually leads to all citizens of that society being worse off. Especially since no one person or entity can determine which intentions are best for everyone.

Look, man, I don't mean to hammer you or anyone else on here to the point where I can't convince you of my side because it gets personal. But I will leave you guys with a great point made by the brilliant Thomas Sowell. In discussing the progressive argument of social justice vs. the dictates of the market, where it is implied that the engineers of social justice are far more wise and compassionate than the free market, he makes the point that “what is called “the market” consists of human beings making their own choices at their own cost. What is called “social justice” is government imposition of the notions of third parties, who pay no price for being wrong”.

Thanks for your time.


Posted By: Da Man (Guest)  on October 09, 2009 at 01:34 PM

 
 
BtW, nobody works to make a positive contribution to society.

"I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good. "

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."

Adam "the Hand" Smith


Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest)  on October 09, 2009 at 02:08 PM

 
 
What the domino effect of closing businesses doesn't take into account is Market Share and the vacuum it makes.

If Ford or GM had closed down entirely, their entire market share in the industry would be up for grabs. BMW, Chrysler, Toyota, etc would all benefit in various ways from their closure. The increased demand on their brands and the increased sales when Ford and GM were off the market would give them the money they need and the reason they need to open new plants (perhaps even purchasing the closing factories of Ford and GM.)


Posted By: DeimosMasque (Guest)  on October 09, 2009 at 02:41 PM

 
 
Da Man:

Thomas Sowell makes an interesting point. In theory government is made up of people, chosen by the masses, to carry out our collective will. In reality, of course, politicians are almost completely detached from the will of the people. The best I hope for from Washington is that they'll do the right thing for the wrong reasons.

AdmChesterMynutz: There are lots of people who donate their time and money to charity, and not just for the tax deduction. There are lawyers who do pro bono work, doctors who go to impoverished countries to help those who will never get treatment otherwise, etc. It's not the norm but it does happen. I'm not asking Wall Street to suddenly care about others more than themselves. That won't happen. I just want them to have a shred of a conscience when deciding whether to cut benefits to pay for their next bonus. Realistically, that won't happen either, but it's worth discussing.

DeimosMasque: You're right about market share being taken over by other companies, and it's largely overlooked that many have factories in the US even if they're rooted elsewhere. It's in this spirit that I want jobs which are buoyed by bailout and stimulus money to be let go, so jobs which fill an actual demand in the marketplace can replace them.


Posted By: Jason Douglas (Guest)  on October 09, 2009 at 05:20 PM

 
 
Until changes are made to the modern version of capitalism things won't improve. As it stands now, our economic model is closer to a pyramid scheme or a gambling casino than a traditional capitalistic system. When "futures" are treated as more valuable than actual product, and insurance is more valuable than actual health care, we're going to have an unsustainable system that will implode each time another artificially-inflated bubble bursts.

Instead of comparing a baseball player to a nurse, why not the CEO of a Fortune 500 company that recently received a bail out to a teacher at a public school?


Posted By: correction (Guest)  on October 10, 2009 at 10:26 PM

 
 
I did read the article but I still want to skip down and give a lil rant about my pet peeve. Someone working a fulltime job deserves to live in not-a-roach-motel. The divide created by modern Western Capitalism is nothing short of digusting. The rich continue to get richer and the poor continue to stay poor. Capitalism needs an overhaul else it will go the way of feudalism.

Posted By: elgrannoche (Guest)  on October 11, 2009 at 10:55 PM

 
 
A few points I can't be bothered to tie into a cohesive argument.

-Comparative arguments are bullshit. just because (a) is better than (b) does not make (a) necessarily good.

-As a socialist liberal pinko commie democrat: Capitalism is good. In fact it is very good. It becomes less good, though, when we begin to view captialism as a societal value rather than simply an economic model. I wonder if this view of capitalism as a societal value has more to do with Cold War, Us v Them, Capitalism v Communism psychological artifacts than it does with the actual value of capitalism as such.

-Economies exist to serve populations, not the other way around. Economies have no other value, and should be judged in the manner in which they serve those populations. If any system of economy does not properly serve its population, then it must be fundamentally re-exsamined.

-I am neither qualified or smart enough to suggest an alternative, but judging by the ever expanding rate of wealth disparity, continuing growth of poverty, and decreasing international competetiveness, the system we have is not working properly.

-Our main problem in international comoetitiveness seems to be our focus on ethics. We as a society actually care about things like worker rights, environmental consequences, standard of living, etc. We will never be able to compete with China as they are with these concerns. If we indeed value those concerns (and I believe we should) we have to pressure China to change, or we will inevitably continue our economic free fall.

I state these things as facts, but they're really only opinions, and I am open to the probability that any or all of my assumptions are wrong. If you disagree please convince me.


Posted By: black hole of charisma (Guest)  on October 21, 2009 at 03:38 PM

 
STAY CURRENT




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