Whither Afghanistan (and Pakistan)?
Posted by Robert Zimmer on 12.01.2009
Obama gambles on new AfPak surge while Cheney grouses; why war bonds are a good idea.
Only hours before President Obama announced the new Afghanistan-Pakistan ("AfPak") strategy in a nationally televised address, former Vice President Dick Cheney trashed the president in a 90-minute interview given to Politico magazine. Despite the fact that Obama has announced a surge of 30,000 troops to Afghanistan, Cheney accused Obama of "showing weakness." This is not only bizarre on its face, but it is even more puzzling given that two of the architects of the Iraq surge in 2007, General David Petraeus and Defense Secretary Robert Gates, contributed heavily to the Obama administration's new strategy to get a handle on the degrading situations in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Cheney seems to have no self-awareness about the profound irony that if Vice President Gore had criticized President Bush on the same day Bush announced the Iraq surge, Republicans would have screamed "unpatriotic" and called for the former VP's lynching. Cheney's premeditated outburst, apparently intended to hinder the new AfPak strategy from gaining both traction and public support, is a disgracefully unpatriotic and irresponsible act. Forget Darth Vader; Cheney, who gave his interview to Politico over the phone, literally sounds more like Emperor Palpatine every time he talks. The Force is no longer with Cheney, however, a fact about which he is either unaware or simply refuses to accept. He is a tired old man who rants from his Wyoming ranch about grudges that can never be satisfied, obsessed with repairing a political legacy that not even Bush, Rumsfeld, or Condi Rice bothers to speak up to defend.
To the distress of many of my liberal friends, I actually support the new AfPak strategy. It is both a national security and human rights imperative. While true that only approximately 100 Al Qaida remain in Afghanistan, Al Qaida flourishes en masse in the no-man's land between eastern Afghanistan and western Pakistan, plotting devastation against Western enemies real and imagined. They must not be allowed to continue. The Taliban, who once harbored Al Qaida as brothers, is resurgent in Afghanistan -- a repressive, fundamentalist Muslim alliance that demands the strictest possible interpretation of conservative Islamic law, called Sharia. The Taliban enforces summary executions, no rights for women, and stern prohibitions on a wide range of cultural and educational activities. The government of Afghan president Hamid Karzai holds the capital of Kabul fairly stably, along with a few other major cities, but the Taliban have overrun the rural and more distant expanses of the country. The Afghan people hate the Taliban, but see little choice but to cooperate with them in the profound absence of Afghan police and military personnel. The U.S. military presence (currently at 68,000 troops) is simply not enough to make up the difference.
Like the surge in Iraq, what is essential is that the U.S not get stuck in a quagmire where it is doing the fighting of the native population; the job of the U.S. is to stabilize the country, restore basic civic services, train Afghan troops, and show the Afghan population that there is a legitimate alternative to the Sharia nightmare of the Taliban. The Karzai government has been told that the surge is temporary – the U.S. will begin to withdraw troops in 2011, so the pressure is on them to step up, fight corruption, and convince the Afghan people their government is more viable than allowing the Taliban to once again rule the country, as they did from 1996 to 2001, during which they harbored tens of thousands of Al Qaida warriors. Make no mistake -- if America simply ditches Afghanistan and brings the troops home, that Al Qaida will spread back into Afghanistan like the worst bout of cancer imaginable.
In Pakistan – a nuclear power, let's not forget – the central government is similarly weak and Muslim fundamentalism a very powerful political and cultural force. It is no accident that Al Qaida relocated the nexus of their operational elements to Pakistan. They have worked tirelessly, in some cases with the covert aid of Pakistan's own security forces, to wreak terrorist acts on Pakistan's civilian population, and plot further terrorist acts against the West. (It is also believed that Osama Bin Laden is still at large in Pakistan, assuming he has not been killed, which some believe happened a few years back.) It is not just the fate of Afghanistan that is the critical to U.S. interests – Pakistan too must be saved, or the costs could be grave. If Pakistan's nuclear weapons fall into the hands of Al Qaida, the consequences could be unimaginable.
The best idea in support of the new AfPak strategy is one proposed by moderate Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE) and which has, refreshingly, received some initial Republican support: war bonds to pay for the AfPak war effort. Most Americans do not know that taxes were not raised during World War II, for example; instead, the government sold war bonds to raise war revenues, which turned out to be an extremely popular program. For those that don't know what they are, war bonds are simply IOUs plus a modest interest payment. So, for example, if you purchased a $100.00 war bond with three percent interest, you would receive a $103.00 payment from the government in, say, five or ten years. The Roosevelt administration, cognizant of the economic difficulties facing most Americans at the onset of World War II, allowed people to purchase war bonds in very small amounts – $25.00, for example, or ten-cent stamps that could be used towards to purchase of a war bond. 85 million Americans ended up participating, raising $185 billion dollars – which is a staggering $2.3 trillion in 2009 dollars. The U.S. economy roared back to unparalleled prosperity after the war (in part due to the war), and these bonds were paid back. (Interesting factoid: today, the U.S. Treasury is sitting on $17 billion of unclaimed war bond repayments.) War bonds are a terrific idea, particularly when combined with a small surtax on the rich, for a simple reason: the entire Iraq war has been financed with borrowed money, much of it from China. Financial obligations of this magnitude should never be unfunded, particularly by borrowing money from strategic adversaries. It's high time we reverse the Bush administration policy of going to war, enacting tax cuts for the rich, and countless other unfunded mandates (Medicare prescription drug expansion, No Child Left Behind), without a whit of concern for how the will be paid for. Both foreign and fiscal policy sanity must be restored, or our empire will see itself go the way of Rome.
P.S. For those who are still convinced Obama is a Muslim, please now explain why he has ordered 30,000 American troops to combat Muslim extremists.
Well done Zimmer. I agree with you mostly on Afghanistan and the bond sales. Of course this means that Chungles will come in and call us stupid and write a 30 part manifesto about how wrong I am.
Posted By: John (Guest) on December 01, 2009 at 09:27 PM
Only hours before President Obama announced the new Afghanistan-Pakistan ("AfPak") strategy in a nationally televised address, former Vice President Dick Cheney trashed the president in a 90-minute interview given to Politico magazine. Despite the fact that Obama has announced a surge of 30,000 troops to Afghanistan, Cheney accused Obama of "showing weakness."
Posted by Robert Zimmer on 12.01.2009
What exactly do you consider Obama's abandoning Poland to be? Or how about his 'World Apology Tour'? Now, he's sending troops over there, all while telling the enemy, "hey.. we're leaving in a few years, just hang tight!"
When are you dope-smoking Marxists going to wake up to what HUSSEIN is doing to our country? Frankly, I hope his Pakistan strategy fails. It'll be worth it just to prove you tree-huggers wrong. Then, in 2012, it's Cheney-Palin!
Posted By: gbh1978 (Guest) on December 01, 2009 at 10:06 PM
My beef with Obama on this subject is that he sits and screws around for months before making the decision. I applaud him for making the decision, as it is his most important role as president. So kudos to the prez for making the decision. I just wish that he would be a little quicker while american lives are at stake. Your hand picked general tells you that you need to send more troops, then you shouldn't be wasting time checking your focus groups, you should make your decision. I was prepared to support Obama on whatever way he wanted to go, just wanted him to make the decision. He's not a senator anymore. Executives have to be ready at all times to make those tough choices.
All in all, I'm happy he's made the decision, and as someone that is right of center, I support his decision.
Posted By: gwpbrian (Guest) on December 01, 2009 at 10:16 PM
Despite what Obama may have said on the campaign trail, I'm glad that he is taking this action. The government of Pakistan could collapse this month for all we know. And if it does.. BOOM!!
Posted By: Mysterious Adversary #8 (Guest) on December 01, 2009 at 10:18 PM
This might be the ONLY worthwhile thing that the man has done.
Posted By: Guest#1623 (Guest) on December 01, 2009 at 10:41 PM
I love it - Obama is doing what the conservatives in his administration want, yet Republicans are STILL complaining. Amazing. I'm still trying to figure out what McCain would have done differently on almost every issue, other than not allowing health care to even be debated. Yet because Obama says it, his supporters act like he's doing something completely original and awesome and his detractors are saying he hates America. The reality is the conservatives still run the country, and they're still running it into the ground.
In addition to war bonds, I say we put taxes back to where they were in the 1940s. At the very least back to where they were under Eisenhower. You know, when the wealthiest Americans were paying 90% in taxes and happy to do it because we were AT WAR.
Posted By: correction (Guest) on December 01, 2009 at 10:50 PM
ok obama dithered and dithered and dithered on the whole afaghanstian issue, and oh yeah whether you like glenn beck or not, he brung up a point that zimmer or any of these lefties wont't bring out, mchrystal actually asked for 60,000 more troops not the 30,000 that is being parroted by the msm, and oh yeah mcchrystal was obabma's hand picked general, and zimmer you must of missed the tirade gore went on or the many other tirades that all the libs went on under bush's admistration, oh i forgot u got those left blinders on, who won't admit that gore and other liberals did all they could to undermine bush in the 8 years that bush was in office, and oh yeah there was the whole kerry i voted for the 87 billion before i voted against it, and oh yeah you also have the dems playing games with war supplemnetal bills, you know where they put hate crime legiaslation in the war supplemental and oh yeah also plan to repeal don't ask don't tell that way, becuase they don't actually have the votes to pass these laws as stand alone bills, so they sneak them into bills that if republicans vote against, they claim oh the gop won't vote to support our troops in the areana, when in actuallity there voting against the tactics the dems are using. As for the rich paying there fair share, u know pepole like george soros, the kerry's, the micheal moores' of the world could pay there fair share but don't in fact soros has offshore accounts to avoid us taxes, and has been one for calling higher taxes, yet he doesn't pay his fair share
Posted By: coby preimesberger (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 01:39 AM
"Amazing. I'm still trying to figure out what McCain would have done differently on almost every issue, other than not allowing health care to even be debated."
Congress decides that, you know.
Posted By: BKS (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 01:51 AM
As for the rich paying there fair share, u know pepole like george soros, the kerry's, the micheal moores' of the world could pay there fair share but don't in fact soros has offshore accounts to avoid us taxes, and has been one for calling higher taxes, yet he doesn't pay his fair share
Posted By: coby preimesberger (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 01:39 AM
Soros has donated millions of his own dollars to help fund schools for children who would be otherwise neglected by those who feel that public schools are merely an institution for indoctrinating youth with socialist, atheistic ideas.
Or.. we could talk about the issue at hand?
Posted By: Guest#5754 (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 03:25 AM
"I love it - Obama is doing what the conservatives in his administration want, yet Republicans are STILL complaining."
Not all of us Mr.Dofus Lefty
atleast on this decision though he did take along time making it
Posted By: Guest#8605 (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 08:27 AM
"In addition to war bonds, I say we put taxes back to where they were in the 1940s. At the very least back to where they were under Eisenhower. You know, when the wealthiest Americans were paying 90% in taxes and happy to do it because we were AT WAR."
Sorry, tax anybody 90% and they will leave in a hurry, taking all that job-creating wealth with them. You do realize that the "rich" people in this country are the ones providing us all with jobs right?
Posted By: Fingaz (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 08:34 AM
"I'm still trying to figure out what McCain would have done differently on almost every issue, other than not allowing health care to even be debated. Yet because Obama says it, his supporters act like he's doing something completely original and awesome and his detractors are saying he hates America. The reality is the conservatives still run the country, and they're still running it into the ground."
Posted By: correction
This is completely true, though philosophically I disagree with the last part. Since Obama is Commander-in-Chief, he holds the power, and is deferring to conservatives by choice. We should never forget that, because the blood is on his hands going forward.
Posted By: Jason Douglas (Registered) on December 02, 2009 at 09:55 AM
Robert Zimmer&anyone else interested,
-That comment purporting to be me is in fact not. I do not cut&paste nor do I use the ridiculous termonology seen in that comment. I'm registered yet my comments appear under the guest heading for some reason and I'm trying to sort it out.
-There is someone out there who really needs a hobby purporting to be me. Its happened at least once before that I know of. I must have gotten under someones skin if there stooping to something so bizzarely juvenile!
-Spotting these fake comments is as easy spotting bootlegged videos. These comments are not nearly as intelligent or reasonable, they use dopey extremist rhetoric, and have cut&pastes which I NEVER do. You'll be able to easily tell when a comment is really from me if you've ever read anytyhing I've posted. I have a very distinct style and voice that's difficult to duplicate or immitate. Anyway sorry for the mix up, someone out there is really PATHETIC!!
Posted By: gbh1978 (Registered) on December 02, 2009 at 10:18 AM
-As for my actual feelings on this article, I agree with most of what was said. I haven't seen or heard the Cheney interview yet so I can't comment on that. Although his timing on this seems a bit off. I guess he's desperate to remain relevant(or as relevant as DICK cheney can be at this point).
- I agree with what the President did here though I might question the timing. The recomendations for more troops was made months ago(9 months?), yet the no action was taken until now. Now some would say that's playing politics by waiting until after the elections. If they're correct then that's loathesome, playing politics while our soldiers die. Me personally, I don't know what anyones true intentions are or what's in their heart. I do know that sitting on the recomendation until now does look a bit fishy on it's face.
-Aside from that I think you hit the nail pretty much on the head. It was a good little bit of reading. I do have a couple of minor quibbles but I'm REALLY tired of arguing. Like I said, in my view almost spot on and good job.
Posted By: gbh1978 (Registered) on December 02, 2009 at 10:49 AM
This was a hilarious read. The US has never been interested in Afghanistan because of human rights and womens rights and so on. Most people there SUPPORT the Taliban. The US is there for geopolitical interests and because of the post-2001 quest for global hegemony. That quest got stuck in the quagmire of the middle-east (as most of the cold war crusades into the middle east did as well) and now the US and Obama are creating a new definition of "victory" as being able to get the fuck out of the country without it collapsing into nothingness. This article is shockingly naive. Keep flying your flag as more and more soldiers and civilians die for no real reason.
Posted By: AJ (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 10:50 AM
This, the tax cuts for the lower class and Holder's announcement that the government won't chase medical marijuana patients are 3 great things done in Obama's first year...
...and I voted against the guy.
Posted By: Madcapunlimited (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 10:53 AM
agreed with everything except the concept of the rich paying a surtax. also, does anybody realize how much time is wasted arguing, and how little is used to accomplish anything real? It's a bit ridiculous, on all parties accounts.
Posted By: Guest#9789 (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 11:50 AM
You do realize that the "rich" people in this country are the ones providing us all with jobs right?
Posted By: Fingaz
You do realize that without workers the rich wouldn't be rich in the first place, right?
Wealth is generated in three ways:
1) the sweat of your brow
2) good investments
3) the sweat of OTHER people's brows
The rich, at best, start with the first and progress to the last, which is where most of their money comes from. If every executive pulling in millions vanished tomorrow, we would survive. Wall Street proved that beyond all doubt a year ago.
Posted By: Jason Douglas (Registered) on December 02, 2009 at 01:01 PM
I have a very distinct style and voice that's difficult to duplicate or immitate. Anyway sorry for the mix up, someone out there is really PATHETIC!!
Posted By: gbh1978 (Registered) on December 02, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Wow. First you tell us your IQ is in the genius range, and now this? Good to see your so humble!
Posted By: Guest#8677 (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 01:42 PM
-Hubris is a problem of mine sometimes and I'm the first to copp to that. We all have imperfections and that's one of mine. I brought up the IQ range deal because it was challenged, not to be bragadocious. I thought that pointing out the falacy of calling my intellect, "feeble" would go a long way to proving my greater point. Sorry if it personaly offended anyone.
- As for the, "distinct writing style" bit. Anyone who writes with any level of competence has a distinct style and voice. That was not at all a boast, it was merely pointing out a trueism. Someone was posting fake comments under my name and I needed to defend myself. I think there are more important things to discuss here than nitpicking me so hopefully this will be the end of it.
( Btw- As you can see my registered/guest problem has been remedied. Thank you to whomever is responsible if you're reading this, its greatly appreciated)
Posted By: gbh1978 (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 04:42 PM
It'll be worth it just to prove you tree-huggers wrong. Then, in 2012, it's Cheney-Palin!
Posted By: gbh1978 (Guest) on December 01, 2009 at 10:06 PM
Keep dreaming!
Posted By: Guest#6256 (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 04:57 PM
gbh,
I've been meaning to get my IQ measured for a while. Can you tell me which website you used?
Posted By: Scotty H (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 05:19 PM
I just looked at my last comment, perhaps my problem hasn't been remedied after all. This is getting to be quite the pain in the tookus! AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
Posted By: gbh1978 (Registered) on December 02, 2009 at 05:39 PM
Zimmer,
War bonds. Great idea. Zimmer is going to sell War Bonds with his postal stamps. I can't stop laughing at the stupidity of the moderate Democrat proposal. Shill or idiot, hard to tell difference.
What is the difference between a War Bond and any one of the hundreds of series Treasury Bills or Treasury Bonds?
Can you imagine today's Hollywood stars promoting the purchase of War Bonds as they did during WWII.
"Reporting for Duuuuuuuuutyyyyyy."
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 06:07 PM
@Scott
-I Didn't use a website. I hear most are fairly unreliable. Although off the top of my head you might want to check out MENSA. If any sate would be accurate that would likely be it.
Posted By: gbh1978 (Registered) on December 02, 2009 at 07:46 PM
AdmChesterMyNutz,
Dude, do you even know what treasury bills and bonds are? The reason treasury bills won't work is that they mature too quickly for the government to pay back the money on them and still have enough money for the surge. The government would LOSE money issuing T-bills for something like this. Treasury bond's won't work because they mature too slowly to attract widespread public support.
T-bonds would work a little bit better than T-bills, but neither of them are good options.
And yes, I can see a bunch of celebrities shilling war bonds. They had no problem stumping for Obama when he was running for president...
Posted By: Jlevysan (Guest) on December 02, 2009 at 08:03 PM
"If every executive pulling in millions vanished tomorrow, we would survive."
I disagree. Jobs belong to employers, not employees. If the executives (who create these jobs) went away tomorrow, where would you or I work?
Chase away the employers (the EVIL rich) with a punishing tax code, and jobs disappear.
Posted By: Fingaz (Guest) on December 03, 2009 at 11:18 AM
Jlevysan,
Thanks for answering my question. I will answer yours. Don't know, my knowledge is finite and ignorance infinite. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the difference between a bill, note or bond is their respective length to maturity and consequent interest rate with the rate and length being positively related. When you say LOSE money, don't you actually mean cost more money to borrow because I have never heard of a PROFITABLE way to take on debt, all things equal.
Whether I borrow a dollar today and agree to repay dollar in a month, year or decade, I have still borrowed a dollar and will pay interest to the lender. Paying above market rates would make me stupid and the Chinese happy, whereas paying below market rate would be impossible.
To me, the only economic difference between a bond, bill or note and a War Bond, War Bill or War Note would be that the issuer has included the word “war” in the title. My ignorance is infinite, so what am I missing here.
Huggie
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on December 03, 2009 at 12:38 PM
By the Way, Treasury has been selling Patriot (War) Bonds for over eight years.
The Patriot Savings Bond
The Patriot Bond is identical in every way to the paper EE Bond except that any EE Bond purchased through financial institutions after December 10, 2001 has the words "Patriot Bond" printed on the top half of the bond between the Social Security Number and issue date. All EE Bond terms and conditions apply.
On paper savings bonds issued or replaced on or after August 1, 2006, the first five digits of your Social Security number or Employer Identification number will be masked and replaced with asterisks. This is being done to protect your privacy and to prevent the information from being used for identity theft.
Patriot Bonds offer Americans one more way to express their support for our nation's anti-terrorism efforts. Proceeds are deposited into a general fund that includes contributions to anti-terrorism efforts and spent according to law.
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on December 03, 2009 at 02:01 PM
Chase away the employers (the EVIL rich) with a punishing tax code, and jobs disappear.
Posted By: Fingaz (Guest) on December 03, 2009 at 11:18 AM
Is THAT what happened to all the jobs? Bush taxed them over to India and China?
Posted By: Guest#6032 (Guest) on December 03, 2009 at 08:06 PM
"Is THAT what happened to all the jobs? Bush taxed them over to India and China?
Posted By: Guest#6032 (Guest) on December 03, 2009 at 08:06 PM"
This gets so exhausting sometimes. Completely avoiding my point, you rush to find a way to blame George Bush for everything.
It's simple economics: business owners are in business to make money. Give business owners tax breaks, that gives them more money to hire more people, and to invest in their business.
Barack Obama is the President. The current 10% unemployment rate belongs to him, not to George Bush.
Posted By: Fingaz (Guest) on December 04, 2009 at 09:25 AM
It's simple economics: business owners are in business to make money. Give business owners tax breaks, that gives them more money to hire more people, and to invest in their business.
Barack Obama is the President. The current 10% unemployment rate belongs to him, not to George Bush.
Posted By: Fingaz (Guest) on December 04, 2009 at 09:25 AM
Isnt that exactly what Dubya did? Give tax breaks to business owners of all size to help stimulate the economy?
Posted By: Guest#8123 (Guest) on December 05, 2009 at 01:27 AM
AdmChesterMyNutz,
What I mean when I say that T-Bills would lose the government money is that they would mature while we are presumably still in Afghanistan. The government would have to start paying out tons of money when it is still needed elsewhere. At least with a War Bond, the maturity date is a few years away, and hence the payout on those bonds will presumably not effect the operations budget for the war in Afghanistan.
Posted By: Jlevysan (Guest) on December 05, 2009 at 07:54 PM
Well written Robert and I too agree with the article for the most part. It is hard to pull out of a war that was not suppose to be fought in the first place. This is by far the longest war in U.S. history if it continues to go in the direction that it has been going. I believe the bond idea was thought out and done with excellance this is why I adore the Roosevelt administration. Another thing I like is that back then people support the President and his acts because they knew they were in a bad time. Obama is only man people. He is allowed to make mistakes because he is human. If it takes for us to send more people over to fight to end even though I doubt most of them will even reach combat, then so be it. America needs to take care of America first and then worry about outsiders. One mistake Bush made.
Posted By: pmoore (Registered) on December 08, 2009 at 12:08 PM