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 411mania » Politics » Blog Entry
Tiger Woods and the Ethics of Adultery
Posted by Enrique on 12.09.2009





Sometimes you'll hear serious journalists complain that Americans aren't sufficiently interested in important news stories. Many are offended at the trash the MSM is obligated to cover to satisfy the public's vulgar appetite for celebrity gossip. But the market wants what it wants, and there's nothing quite as tasty as the public spectacle of a famous athlete's matrimonial implosion.

The real question is, what lessons can we learn from Tiger Woods' betrayal of his marital vows? Oh hell, that's not the real question – the real question is how hot are these tarts and how many are there? For our story this week, let's have a look at why rich, powerful men make the foolish decision to get married, and contemplate the ethics of prostitution as compared to adultery. Plus, full frontal nudity.

The story so far…

I was kidding about the full frontal nudity, of course. At last count, the number of women rumored to have knocked boots with Woods is nine and counting. Were any of them worth ruining a marriage over? There's no accounting for taste, but here are a few of the more popular ones.


Rachel Uchitel, woman about town

Uchitel was the first horse out of the barn. She's the one who hired Gloria Allred. I've seen her described as a nightclub promoter and party girl. I think we can all agree if all women in their mid-30's held it together as well as Uchitel, the world would be a better place.


Jaimee Grubbs, cell phone owner

Grubbs was the recipient of that awkward voicemail featuring Woods gently begging her to change the outgoing message on her phone. I assume most married men would prefer to avoid situations where they have to tell someone, "My wife went through my phone and may be calling you." I think we can all agree none of us would expect someone named "Jaimee Grubbs" to be so hittable.


Kalika Moquin, influential person in Vegas nightlife, apparently

If I were a girl, and I looked that good in a string strap tank top, I'd wear string strap tank tops in the dead of winter. I think we can all agree if we were to have an illicit affair, it would be with someone named Kalika Moquin. Suck it, Jaimee Grubbs.

While it's fun to make light of Woods' concubine parade, there's a serious moral issue underlying this whole adulterous circumstance. Obviously, I'm not referring to Woods' betrayal of his wife. I'm referring to the mistress of a married celebrity profiting from her tawdry behavior. We can probably assume Grubbs didn't give away that voicemail for free. In cases of celebrity infidelity, it's common for the women to be compared to prostitutes. That's an unfair analogy, since prostitutes are much more likely to behave ethically. Ashley Dupre, the delightful call girl at the center of former New York governor Eliot Spitzer's downfall, has argued her alleged turpitude compares favorably to that of Wood's gold-digging lady friends:

"Here you have all these girls accepting gifts, money, trips from Tiger in exchange for sex -- all the while knowing he is married.

"And now they all can't wait to tell their stories in exchange for even more money from the tabloids?

"And I was the hooker? At least I kept my mouth shut." [...]

"I'm often referred to as the 'woman who brought down the governor' -- excuse me, people, I didn't call the tabloids," Dupre said [in September].
This is precisely the reason many men in progressive states/nations where prostitution is legal prefer professionals to amateurs. As all men know, we all ultimately pay for sex, most often through time and attention, and sometimes that can be a dicey proposition. When sex for money is prohibited by law, men can't be sure that their investments will bear fruit, since there are no established guidelines for conduct. In the absence of such guidelines, the behavior of female sex amateurs can be wildly unpredictable and have dire consequences. Daily Beast columnist and former call girl Tracy Quan summarizes the hazards of seeking sexual favors from non-professional women:

If you expect a married man's mistress to have better manners or ethics than a prostitute, simply because her heart or libido are involved, think again. Those very elements—love and lust—do not always lead to classy, mature behavior. Having a businesslike agenda from the start seems cold, but it results in a warmer ending. [...]

[P]rostitutes rarely engage in the type of behavior that Tiger's mistresses are engaging in now. Those prostitutes who blackmail and expose their clients are generally shunned by their peers, and rightly so. Unless a client has behaved badly or violently, his privacy is usually respected. This is a line that separates professionals from amateurs.
Because prostitution in the United States operates in a black market, there is no transparency or standards. One way to avoid the type of embarrassing situation currently being experienced by the Woods family is to legalize prostitution, and permit consenting adults to seek the services of professionals if they so choose. Another solution might be for married women to actually put out for their husbands, but based on my research, that's not a realistic expectation. And even if it were, it's likely many married men would still step out on their wives. It's a biological fact men are more fertile than women for a longer portion of our lives, and thus we're compelled to seek out mating opportunities with more enthusiasm than the fair sex.

In Woods' case, the most painless solution was to never have gotten married in the first place. I don't mean to be obvious, but no man who attains a high level of wealth and/or power is going to be able to resist the consequent attention of women. It's better for everyone if those men remained bachelors. If the pursuit of fame and money is your goal, go the Derek Jeter route. Follow George Clooney's example (although he was married once, he seems to have learned his lesson). Resist the social pressure to marry just because that's what the little people do. If you don't, you'll end up having a very awkward press conference, or posting groveling apologies on your official web site, or experiencing the humiliation of every e-mail and phone message you left your inamorata being made public.

For many men of more modest sex appeal, marriage may be a sensible choice. But men of status should take the Woods lesson to heart – think twice before getting married. If you don't, we won't feel sorry for you when it blows up in your face. Unless your wife wasn't putting out, in which case we'll only pretend we don't feel sorry for you.


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Comments (51)

 
You know, we have a war going on and a health care debate. We also have double digit unemployment and possible cap & trade legislation going through. So until Woods starts shaving his hair let's leave the guy alone. He's acting like a normal person considering the situation.

Posted By: BKS (Guest)  on December 09, 2009 at 09:00 PM

 
 
What I consider a travesty is the fact that in a civilized society if somebody is willing to provide sex service, why wouldn't he/she do so? It completely fits with your track record of articles defending liberty. Though I guess your talents would have been better used, had you not taken up Woods at all.

Posted By: Arnab (Guest)  on December 09, 2009 at 10:09 PM

 
 
You know, we have a war going on and a health care debate. We also have double digit unemployment and possible cap & trade legislation going through. So until Woods starts shaving his hair let's leave the guy alone. He's acting like a normal person considering the situation.

Posted By: BKS (Guest) on December 09, 2009 at 09:00 PM

While I agree there are bigger fish to fry, Tigers action are far from "normal" If you feel the need to have 10 prostitutes like Enrique would like to say, then don't get married. According to reports, he had unprotected sex with a couple of these pros. What if he brought home a STD to his wife? He also had one of them over when his pregnant wife was out of town. Is there anything lower than cheating on a women carrying your child, in the home you share?

Its sort of funny,Phil Mickelson was always portrayed as the phony one on the PGA tour. Turns out they had the wrong guy.


Posted By: John (Guest)  on December 09, 2009 at 10:12 PM

 
 
This whore of a man is gonna lose soooo much damn money it's funny and deserved. Cheating on your pregnant wife terrible

Posted By: Guest#4099 (Guest)  on December 10, 2009 at 05:32 AM

 
 
Make brothels legal but prostitution illegal. Then have the clients spend loads on drinks at a bar inside and the bar pays the womens wages at the end of the night.
The best of both worlds and I have seen that system in operation regularly on my travels.


Posted By: Ste (Guest)  on December 10, 2009 at 07:30 AM

 
 
Getting married was indeed Tiger's big mistake. If he wasn't married there's nothing anybody could say.

The caveat though to this is the double standard applied. Tiger is obviously supporting his wife, and his wife is not meeting his sexual needs. If the situations were reversed, everyone would still blame the man for everything and say he should be grateful that there's a woman in his life or that she is supporting him and to put up with anything.

Most likely the divorce is coming up and Tigers gonna lose a loooooooot of money.


Posted By: Guest#2775 (Guest)  on December 10, 2009 at 10:22 AM

 
 
"Another solution might be for married women to actually put out for their husbands, but based on my research, that's not a realistic expectation."

Oh please do tell, what "research" have you done on this topic? Why do conservatives think of women as objects who only exist to service them?

Of course you completely miss the point of the Tiger Woods story. It's been known for years that Tiger got around. He got married because it was good for his image, much the same way Tom Cruise keeps getting married (remember how he bounced on the couch over Katie Holmes when they both had big movies coming out?). Having a family was a PR move that worked wonders for Tiger's Q rating. It was a business deal, plain and simple.

So where are the conservatives like Enrique to preach about the sanctity of marriage? Reading this column, we're led to believe that the wife is to blame because she doesn't "put out." I guess since Tiger is a man he's not expected to stay loyal to his wife, because...well, he's a man. That's enough.

Conservative hypocrisy at its finest. Marriage is only for a man and a woman, but it's okay for the man to cheat because he needs sex all the time and prostitution should be legal so the whore (the woman he has sex with, not him of course) keeps her mouth shut.

Congrats Enrique - Rush would be proud.


Posted By: correction (Guest)  on December 10, 2009 at 11:02 AM

 
 
It is delicious irony that you are sharing your views on the political section of 411mania. If anyone wanting to make themselves a person of status (i.e. an aspiring politician) follows your words, they will kill any chance of being in a position of power. If the individual in question has more views in common than just marriage, then it will be nice to keep that person from becoming elected, We wouldn't want them mucking everything up. :-D

Posted By: David (Guest)  on December 10, 2009 at 11:32 AM

 
 
correction,

He isn't a conservative. He is just a libertarian that supports Republicans nine times out of ten. So, he is a hypocrite any way you want to cut it...


Posted By: David (Guest)  on December 10, 2009 at 11:35 AM

 
 
correction,

In the past, I've enjoyed your contributions to the discussions in this section. Lately, however, it seems as though you have been circling the drain. If there's any contributor to this section who has shown time and again that established political labels and their conventions do not hold, it is Enrique. I've been reading here for a while and this pseudonymed writer does not exactly strike me as a Rush Limbaugh acolyte, as you appear so eager to claim.

I take Enrique's pieces in this vein for what they are: fluffy stories of arguable public interest with a humourous and often flippant tone, occasionally bringing to light very real social and ethical issues.

If others simply want to point out what the article is NOT talking about, I would suggest they submit their own pieces to Ashish. Unless they feel that complaining in comment form is just too fun and easy to give up.


Posted By: Scotty H (Guest)  on December 10, 2009 at 12:01 PM

 
 
"Oh please do tell, what "research" have you done on this topic? Why do conservatives think of women as objects who only exist to service them?"

I'm not a conservative, but this is crazy thinking-- if you get married you're basically signing a contract to do your best to fulfill each other's sexual needs... and women in long term relationships who think men should be satisfied with month long dry spells need to wake up and smell the coffee-- no man wants to live without sex, and if he can get it he WILL... so be smart enough to provide it.


Posted By: Guest#7799 (Guest)  on December 10, 2009 at 12:22 PM

 
 
What I have heard several times over is that they have a prenup which would award her $5 million in a divorce, and she's now reworking it to pay out more. If that is true, I have to disagree with Enrique. Tiger is married to the real professional. Getting a trophy wife for P.R. was a bad business decision.

Posted By: Jason Douglas (Registered)  on December 10, 2009 at 12:29 PM

 
 
"I'm not a conservative, but this is crazy thinking-- if you get married you're basically signing a contract to do your best to fulfill each other's sexual needs... and women in long term relationships who think men should be satisfied with month long dry spells need to wake up and smell the coffee-- no man wants to live without sex, and if he can get it he WILL... so be smart enough to provide it."

If that is what you want in your marriage, then it your responsibility to make this clear to your would be spouse before you get hitched. And frankly, it's not the woman's job to make sure her husband is happy and sexually satisfied. Marriage is a two way street, but you act as if the wife ignores how she feels/thinks and pleases her man, then all will be good. If you are married, its no wonder you experience month long dry spells.


Posted By: Guest#3805 (Guest)  on December 10, 2009 at 01:27 PM

 
 
Well I got my mistress pregnant while my wife was dying with cancer, so I am still the king.

Posted By: John Edwards (Guest)  on December 10, 2009 at 01:51 PM

 
 
If it takes 10+ women that we know of to fill this man-whores sexual desires THEN he is the one with the problem not his wife.

Posted By: Guest#5712 (Guest)  on December 10, 2009 at 02:41 PM

 
 
Holy shit! An athlete was banging a bunch of random chicks! And he was MARRIED!

Who gives a fuck? At least they were hot (well, most of them).


Posted By: Zingy (Guest)  on December 10, 2009 at 05:07 PM

 
 
Why not talking about POLYGAMY Here ? Isn't this the finality of this article finally ?

While the vast majority of women on earth can be faithful to their husbands, it does not seem to work the other around.

A guy like Woods would fit perfectly in those countries where polygamy is still used and encouraged.

Can a man spend 1-5-10 years with the same breasts and booty without getting bored after a while ?

That's the question and it seems that, in 8 to 9 nine cases out of 10 the answer is a resounding NO


Posted By: Tiger Woods Needs Polygamy (Guest)  on December 10, 2009 at 10:04 PM

 
 
"no man wants to live without sex, and if he can get it he WILL"

- Guest#7799

Yeah... all women hate sex, there is the ultimate sitcom logic that our society has perpetuated for way too long.


Posted By: DeimosMasque (Guest)  on December 10, 2009 at 10:51 PM

 
 
correction,

He isn't a conservative. He is just a libertarian that supports Republicans nine times out of ten. So, he is a hypocrite any way you want to cut it...

Posted By: David (Guest) on December 10, 2009 at 11:35 AM



And you're still a cunt, you cum receptacle. Nobody cares what you think, David.
_____________________________________

Conservative hypocrisy at its finest. Marriage is only for a man and a woman, but it's okay for the man to cheat because he needs sex all the time and prostitution should be legal so the whore (the woman he has sex with, not him of course) keeps her mouth shut.

Congrats Enrique - Rush would be proud.

Posted By: correction (Guest) on December 10, 2009 at 11:02 AM


Wow, you're a self-righteous shitbag. That IS what women are for, and because I understand this, so I get laid a lot more than you. All women are whores, and if they aren't, they want to be. Get over it. They're not special. Like the Geto Boys once said, "your pussy ain't no more important than my dick, miss".


Posted By: Christ, David Sucks (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 12:20 AM

 
 
Enrique: This is probably your best work to date. To be frank, I often dislike your work but this is excellent. Very humourous, evocative, and just plain right.

Everyone complaining about Tiger's morals would definitely throw their whole family under a bus just to sniff any of those girls panties.


Posted By: G (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 01:35 AM

 
 
The lesson that needs to be learned is that famous Athletes shouldn't bother getting married. Just be like Derek Jeter and screw matrimony. Marriage is overrated, sex is the only moral compass you need.

Posted By: Guest#0947 (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 01:59 AM

 
 
We can learn a lot from Tiger as a society. First, is it any of our business? NO!!!! Second, the concept of monogamy is a myth. I don't care how "religious" a man is suppose to be, we are only as faithful as our options and this the nature of all males. We fool ourselves by thinking that "We wouldn't do that because it's wrong." If the options where limited, then the chances of Tiger's debautry would be less. Unless you are really gay, and we where in Tiger's shoes, all of us would knock boots with women that look like that. It is wrong to cheat on your wife in any theology and I agree with that. So what about letting men have more than one wife? Even more so for someone who is as rich as Tiger. I know there are some hateful Christians reading this and are about to go on their "holy" soap box, but people wake up: Polygamy is something that works. If you take all the men and woman in the world and marry them, then there will still millions of single women in the world left over. Then what? Finally, I believe that the women that cheated with Tiger are just as wrong. It is like the media goes on this witch hunt and forget to burn all the witches, but let's get the rich black dude. STOP HATING!!!

Posted By: Guest#4433 (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 04:53 AM

 
 
Christ, David Sucks (Guest),

You are just jealous that I'm clearly superior to you in every way possible. So, you can continue to share your insipid opinions because it will never change anything. You entered this planet inferior to me, and you'll leave this planet in the same fashion. Heh, I guess you can consider it an achievement to be consistent.


Posted By: David (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 05:13 AM

 
 
I wonder how many degrees of separation is Tiger from Derek Jeter's herpes?

Posted By: Trueindeed (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 08:51 AM

 
 
If that is what you want in your marriage, then it your responsibility to make this clear to your would be spouse before you get hitched. And frankly, it's not the woman's job to make sure her husband is happy and sexually satisfied. Marriage is a two way street, but you act as if the wife ignores how she feels/thinks and pleases her man, then all will be good. If you are married, its no wonder you experience month long dry spells.

Posted By: Guest#3805 (Guest) on December 10, 2009 at 01:27 PM

What are you 12? How is it not the wife's responsibility? How exactly is it a 2 way street when you only put responsibilities on one member of the marriage? You're the typical mangina that thinks men are to blame for everything but men should prostrate themselves for women and get nothing in return.

You claim marriage is a two way street where the partners both take care of each other's needs. How do you manage that when one partner has no responsibility at all to take care of what is well known as the biggest need men have? You do not see the contradiction?

Also how do you think men get married in the first place? Whenever a woman wants to get married she puts out, then basically implies that if married this will be a regular occurrence. I don't understand how you can have such a lack of understanding in human male-female interactions. If you're not getting married for sex, then why are you getting married? How is a wife you don't have sex with any different than a best friend of the opposite gender, aside from being able to do a lot less stuff in terms of sports or interests?

Besides, if a woman cheats everyone always blames the man "he didn't satisfy her." Or if a man doesn't make enough money, it's suddenly "he's not a real man, how could she respect him?" Marriages where the wife makes more money rarely ever work, 90% of them fail because the wife doesn't respect the man. Yet the opposite, where the man makes more, there hasn't been a problem with.

Virgins need to understand that men and women value different things. Women seek financial stability whereas men want to reproduce, meaning both sex and the ability to care for children.


Posted By: Guest#7114 (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 10:03 AM

 
 
That IS what women are for, and because I understand this, so I get laid a lot more than you. All women are whores, and if they aren't, they want to be. Get over it. They're not special.

Posted By: Christ, David Sucks

Not even five years ago I would have cringed at this sort of comment. Now I just shake my head and sigh, knowing it's true. Isn't the real moral tale here how easily a man the whole world knows is married was still able to poke any woman he wanted? Even if not one of them was trying to profit from their actions, are they on any higher moral ground than Tiger?


Yeah... all women hate sex, there is the ultimate sitcom logic that our society has perpetuated for way too long.

Posted By: DeimosMasque

Based on lots of unsolicited feedback from married and divorced men, I think the caveat here is that women hate having sex WITH THEIR HUSBANDS. Most of the time they marry for the big wedding, a house, and kids. Men marry expecting regular access to sex for life. The problem is the things women want are concrete. Once they get them, they see no reason to hold up their end of the bargain any more. Men, ask yourselves: When has a woman (other than your mom) been kind to you with no ulterior motive? Drawing a blank? Me too.

The reason I'll likely never marry is that I'm self sufficient and would only want a woman who adds meaning to my life. On the rare occasion I think I've met such a woman, I put her on a pedestal and expect in turn for her to do the same. As Christ, David Sucks points out, they're not wired that way. Both Tiger's gold digging wife and his gold digging mistresses demonstrate the female mindset: any action that leads to money is justified, and any action that doesn't is meaningless. Any 30 second jewelry store commercial tells you all you need to know about how to get and keep a woman.

To any who will scold me for what I've written, for what it's worth I hate that my outlook is so bleak. I just have no reason to think otherwise.


Posted By: Jason Douglas (Registered)  on December 11, 2009 at 10:25 AM

 
 
wow it's 2009 and people still think of women as nothing but objects just sad.

Posted By: guest (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 11:42 AM

 
 
"Men, ask yourselves: When has a woman (other than your mom) been kind to you with no ulterior motive?"
Jason Douglas

No I'm not drawing a blank at all, I can think of atleast 15 different incidents in the last year (and I don't even hang out with alot of women.)


Posted By: DeimosMasque (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 02:39 PM

 
 
Christ, David Sucks (Guest),

You are just jealous that I'm clearly superior to you in every way possible. So, you can continue to share your insipid opinions because it will never change anything. You entered this planet inferior to me, and you'll leave this planet in the same fashion. Heh, I guess you can consider it an achievement to be consistent.

Posted By: David (Guest) on December 11, 2009 at 05:13 AM



Keep thinking that, you syphilitic chancre. LMFAO! I just wonder what color the sky is in your world. The only thing in the world you're superior to is a leprous mongoloid with penchant for buggery.


Posted By: Christ, David Sucks (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 02:42 PM

 
 
lets face it, Tiger was stupid! He's one of the most recognizable people on the planet..so of course this was going to get out eventually and they would want money to tell their story. These woman claim they never got money for sex, then line up to tell all as soon as they can make money. But c'mon, he should have known that was going to happen. Society sucks and will pay for any kind of dirt. he should have paid for sex, and it would have cost him alot less! I'm sure Playboy and other books have already sent out offers for them to pose nude...and you know some of them will take it

Posted By: Huh? (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 04:06 PM

 
 
Re: Jason's comments.

I don't know. In my experience, dating is "cruel, but fair." We end up in the situations we end up in for a reason.

I spent a lot of time putting women on pedestals and not getting anywhere for it. It happened over and over and for a while, I blamed the women.

It wasn't I figured out by putting them on a pedestal, I was putting them somewhere they didn't want to be in the first place that things started to click a bit better.


Posted By: Dan_brodribb (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 05:42 PM

 
 
The only difference between Tiger's fidelity and all the "why would, never a reason to, Todd Volt" type detractors is, let's say, asymmetric degree of opportunity. You guys face this challenge everyday, don't you?

Should I be faithful to my Scandinavian trophy wife or bang the hottest girl I see today?

For Tiger's entire professional life, Earl kept him from doing what every male does during their twenties. Run with your friends, party way more than is healthy, try to screw every woman you are attracted to and basically treating your family like crap. If you don't have a period like this in your life, your not trying hard enough. This period of time was the first time in his life where he could bathe in the fame, fortune and hedonism his hard work produced without any constraints. Like all of us, he over did it.

He will be back, We love comeback stories. He will be paired with John Daly and nobody will worry about Tiger's fidelity as he takes his place in the history of the game.


Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 05:57 PM

 
 
The reason I'll likely never marry is that I'm self sufficient and would only want a woman who adds meaning to my life. On the rare occasion I think I've met such a woman, I put her on a pedestal and expect in turn for her to do the same. As Christ, David Sucks points out, they're not wired that way. Both Tiger's gold digging wife and his gold digging mistresses demonstrate the female mindset: any action that leads to money is justified, and any action that doesn't is meaningless. Any 30 second jewelry store commercial tells you all you need to know about how to get and keep a woman.

To any who will scold me for what I've written, for what it's worth I hate that my outlook is so bleak. I just have no reason to think otherwise.

Posted By: Jason Douglas (Registered) on December 11, 2009 at 10:25 AM

You must really be pathetic to have such a chip on your shoulder when it comes to women.

You are either physically unpleasant or have no confidence whatsoever.

By the way, several of us have sex with our wives quite frequently. Take care of your body, exercise and learn how to please a women and you might do a little better..

You putting women on a pedestal is part of the problem. It shows weakness. You are starting a relationship on the servant end. Thats why you get walked on. Try having a equal relationship, not one were you over do your adulation.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, its just the truth. Best of luck.


Posted By: John (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 08:12 PM

 
 
John: First, I work out and am at least moderately good looking. As for the pedestal thing, I have no doubt that's how a lot of women see it. But look at what I wrote:

"I put her on a pedestal and expect in turn for her to do the same."

I have supreme self confidence. I believe in the golden rule, and treat a woman like a queen because I deserve to be treated like a king. Somehow that second part always gets overlooked. If I had issues with confidence I would act desperate and suck up to any woman who looked at me. Instead I've been repeatedly criticized for being too picky. The real issue is when a man treats a woman like a human being in anything but a shallow attempt to get in her pants, the only conclusion she can draw is the one you did.

Imagine donating canned goods to a food pantry and being told you must feel guilty. Or putting a dollar in the Salvation Army kettle and being told you're condescending. Crazy, right? Yet if I tell a woman I enjoy her company I'm weak and insecure. It's madness, hinged on the presumption that no normal man simply treats women with kindness because it's his nature. If I accept that and act accordingly, I validate and help perpetuate it. Far worse, I would be letting women alter who I am in a negative way. I won't let them devolve me into one of the heartless, selfish people I see getting divorced left and right.

Fifty years ago chivalry was the path to success with women. Today it's treating them like dirt, and that has nothing to do with me. In that time women have made social progress in that they can be whatever they want. Men, on the other hand, are held to the same stereotypes and expectations as when they were painting on cave walls. I am evolved, and I won't turn back to fit an outdated notion of who women think I'm supposed to be.


Posted By: Jason Douglas (Guest)  on December 11, 2009 at 10:00 PM

 
 
Jason,
When I was young, I had the same problem. Its not that you have to treat women like shit, just don't smother them.

As for the other stuff, I sometimes go a little overboard. ( big surprise)So I am sorry.

It seems that your opinion of women and their motives might be a self fullfilling prophecy. Try to relax, they are not all evil.


Posted By: John (Guest)  on December 12, 2009 at 01:43 AM

 
 
"Keep thinking that, you syphilitic chancre. LMFAO! I just wonder what color the sky is in your world. The only thing in the world you're superior to is a leprous mongoloid with penchant for buggery."

What color is the sky in my world? I guess you can call the color "sky blue." Anywho, I live in the real world, and you clearly do not.

It doesn't matter to me because you should be honored for me to actually converse with you in any fashion. It must make your day that I even acknowledge your very existence, "Christ, David Sucks."

You're such a loser, you feel the need to refer to me everytime you post.


Posted By: David (Guest)  on December 12, 2009 at 06:08 AM

 
 
Bunch of basement dwellers, in a politics forum, all whipping our their cocks to have a pissing contest. Its okay though, because they all work out and look good.

Buncha fucking douchebags.


Posted By: Guest#1858 (Guest)  on December 12, 2009 at 11:17 AM

 
 
Jason - any idea how your comments, both registered and not, are going up but mine aren't?

Posted By: correction (Guest)  on December 12, 2009 at 11:33 AM

 
 
Take a nice big look at Tiger Woods and his whore train. These are the posterboys and postergirls of our new generation! We have a whole generation of girls taught to idolize people like Britney Spears and Paris Hilton, where any publicity is good publicity and there's no shame in selling your integrity and self-respect. Far from being shameful that they were sleeping with a married man, most of them will probably go on and make millions in reality shows and book deals. We also have a generation of boys taught to be self-serving douchebags. They're taught to believe that being a "man" only means making as much money as possible at the expense of anyone who gets in their way. Do whatever makes you happy and f*ck anyone else. Don't apologize unless you get caught, and then only apologize to try and get the media off your back. Marriage vows? They're just words and vows are made to be broken. God forbid any child display anything resembling the concepts of character, integrity, or honor. Such a child is immediately branded as "lame" and is subsequently isolated. So this is our generation folks? This is what we'll inherit to the next generation. Hell, just judging from half the comments on here, many of us are already well on our way!

Posted By: Josh (Guest)  on December 12, 2009 at 03:47 PM

 
 
This is what we'll inherit to the next generation. Hell, just judging from half the comments on here, many of us are already well on our way!

Posted By: Josh (Guest) on December 12, 2009 at 03:47 PM

What we'll 'inherit to the next generation'? Way to wrap it up!


Posted By: Guest#8684 (Guest)  on December 12, 2009 at 08:35 PM

 
 
correction: I'm not aware of any issues that would be keeping comments from getting posted, either technical or due to content.

Guest#1858: Either pick a screen name and contribute something to the discussion, or crawl back under your rock. The only thing worse than trolling is trolling for trolls.

John: The funny thing is I'm often told I'm too quiet. Numerous times I've had a woman seek my attention because I wasn't showing her much interest at first. If I don't make an effort I must have options so suddenly I'm desirable. I want a woman who is too smart and sophisticated to react predictably all the time. It's supposed to be about finding someone who has the traits that are important to me and vice versa, not the equivalent to a mating dance on Discovery channel. Women put far too much importance on style over substance. To me it's about who you are, to them it's about what you do. A guy with far less to offer than me who plays the game the way they want will always win. Every time it happens I find myself wondering whether I really lost out, because a life of neverending games would be pure hell to me. Courtship is like getting unwittingly cast in a play where if you don't follow the woman's script she cancels the show. I'm like a difficult actor who goes off script trying to make the show better, and it never ends well. When they say they're fat just so I'll tell them otherwise, when they ask if I think celebrity X is pretty so I'll say "she doesn't compare to you", when they make a weak excuse for calling instead of just saying they want to talk to me, it's like nails on a chalkboard. I think I'm just not cut out for it.


Posted By: Jason Douglas (Guest)  on December 12, 2009 at 09:17 PM

 
 
He a pimp

Posted By: Guest#0765 (Guest)  on December 12, 2009 at 10:32 PM

 
 
Politics?

Posted By: Guest#4261 (Guest)  on December 13, 2009 at 12:41 AM

 
 
Everything Posted By: Josh (Guest) on December 12, 2009 at 03:47 PM

Well said friend. I've sat back and watched the vast majority of my generation with nothing but disgust. Who are these people? How do they live this self-indulgent lifestyle? Where were their parents to teach them morals and values?


Posted By: MattL (Guest)  on December 13, 2009 at 10:19 AM

 
 
By the way, I used to post as GaryML, but they wouldn't even post anything I wrote after a while under that name. Maybe if I quoted Glenn Beck more often...

Posted By: correction (Guest)  on December 13, 2009 at 11:42 AM

 
 
Bunch of basement dwellers, in a politics forum, all whipping our their cocks to have a pissing contest. Its okay though, because they all work out and look good.

Buncha fucking douchebags.

Posted By: Guest#1858 (Guest) on December 12, 2009 at 11:17 AM

lol I was thinking that too. Yeah, the comments section on 411 is where all the men that spend all their time banging super hot women post. They're typing these posts while on top of their wives even, they have some sort of keyboard hooked up into the headboard you know. Oh sorry, only half of them have wives, the other half bang super models all the time without being married. The ones with wives though have sex all the time with super model wives.

It would be more comedic if I didn't hear every ugly group of people talking about this in college all the time. If it's one thing I learned in college, it was that either the ugly people had the most sex or they spent the most time trying to convince everyone else they had the most sex.


Posted By: Guest#0121 (Guest)  on December 13, 2009 at 06:09 PM

 
 
Im begining to think that Tigers in a fight club, the way he doesnt talk about it.

Posted By: Guest#7595 (Guest)  on December 14, 2009 at 02:17 AM

 
 
It's certainly gonna be an unhappy Christmas for Tiger Woods. I bet he wishes he could wipe away the ghosts of Christmas Past. But all the sports sites on the web, listed at Dozensports.com, are saying that Woods' wife wants a divorce. Can he ever come back after this and retain his squeaky-clean image?

Posted By: roger (Guest)  on December 14, 2009 at 11:34 AM

 
 
I think Tiger can come back from this and be a great player again. He just needs time.

Posted By: roger (Guest)  on December 15, 2009 at 10:16 AM

 
 
I thought Tiger Woods was gay.

Posted By: Captain_America (Guest)  on December 15, 2009 at 02:34 PM

 
 
Tiger's agent will check him into a clinic that treats "sexual addiction" (see: David Duchovny), and convince the world Tiger was a 'victim' of his disease. The agent will make us all feel sorry for him, and use his 'disease' to inspire others that, they too, can overcome the "most overlooked addiction in America today", and Tiger will return to the golf course, triumphant. In addition, his tell-all book about how he so bravely battled his dependence on honkynookie will make a mint. Advertisers will line up to get on such a selfless 'hero's' bandwagon again. Just my prediction.

Posted By: Cynic (Guest)  on December 15, 2009 at 06:43 PM

 
STAY CURRENT




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