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 411mania » Politics » Blog Entry
Top Five Obama Lies of 2009
Posted by Enrique on 12.30.2009





I seem to recall reading somewhere that people like to read list-based articles when they browse the web. There are several reasons: the headline reassuringly promises what the article contains; lists can be read quickly; it's fun to argue about lists; it's fun to think about what you'd put on the list. They're easy on the reader, and easy on the writer. Everybody wins.

With that in mind, I've put together my top five lies of President Barack Obama of 2009. I'll make the disclaimer that Obama's lies aren't really much worse than you'd expect from a powerful elected official from Chicago, and there's a chance that when he told them he wasn't being willfully deceptive per se. On the other hand, what's he done lately to earn the benefit of doubt?

The story so far…

(Note: Not all lies below were told during 2009. Some were promises made previously that were broken in 2009. So, you know, FYI, that's the standard I'm operating under here. Like I said, easy on the writer.)


5. "When there is a bill that ends up on my desk as President, you will have five days to look online and find out what's in it before I sign it."

Now that he's been president for a year, it's funny to reminisce about candidate Obama's high ideals. Apparently, at one point, this Obama fellow just tossed out this "I'll put bills online before I sign them" line on a whim. He must have thought it sounded good at the time, but I can't imagine he ever intended to keep it. It's one of those pie-in-sky platitudes politicians toss out because they don't expect anyone to hold them to it.

So let's have a laugh and hold him to it. The first major legislation executed by the Chief Executive was the so-called stimulus act in February. With a price tag of $787 billion, and at a length of over 400 pages, this was precisely the type of bill worthy of five days of public scrutiny. As it happened, Congress passed the bill late on a Friday, and Obama signed it on a Tuesday. It's nice they gave us the weekend to work on it, but would it have been too much to delay signing it for a few more days, just to keep up appearances? The infamous healthcare reform bill that just passed Congress is a couple thousand pages long. Does anyone believe the public will have sufficient time to scrutinize the final version before Obama puts his autograph on it? In the internet age, there's no excuse for a government not to put bills online and allow people enough time to read them.


4. "I will not sign a [healthcare reform] plan that adds one dime to our deficits -- either now or in the future. I will not sign it if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future, period."

He says it twice, as if to taunt us. The purported cost of the recently-passed healthcare reform bill is in the neighborhood of $850 billion. It would take a wild imagination and/or shady accounting tricks to claim such a bill won't add to the deficit, not to mention complete ignorance of the entire recorded history of the federal government's financial wisdom. Government programs/projects that come in under budget are exceedingly rare, and entitlements achieving cost savings is bloody un-fucking-heard of.

Now, you may have heard the Congressional Budget Office has said health care reform won't add to the deficit in the first ten years. Fair enough, but that depends on what you mean by the first ten years. Most of the spending doesn't begin until 2014, so if you start counting with 2010, then the bill is, ahem, deficit neutral (and that's assuming many unpopular cost-cutting measures will be enacted at some unspecified future point). If you start counting in 2014, the CBO numbers add up to $1.8 trillion. I'm usually skeptical of information that comes from government agencies, but when they talk about spending money, I find them pretty convincing.


3. "Let me be clear: The United States government has no interest in running GM. We have no intention of running GM."

This one was notable for its sheer piss-in-your-ear-and-tell-you-it's-raining brazenness. Again, he says it twice, just to rub our pudgy faces in it. Two paragraphs earlier, he announced Rick Wagoner was "stepping aside" as GM's Chairman and CEO. In fairness, GM is a longstanding welfare queen, and the government's de facto ownership of GM didn't start on Obama's watch. But Obama's too smart not to know he was bullshitting. HE SAID IT TWICE.

In GM news, the company posted a $1.15 billion loss in the Q3 2009, and the U.S. Government Accountability Office has said it doesn't expect their $50 billion bailout to ever be fully repaid. But there is some good news. I just saved a bunch of mon Some guy named Fritz Henderson, who happens to be GM's current CEO, "told reporters it is his ‘mission' to prove the [GAO] wrong." He sounds like a plucky fellow. I wish him well.

What? Henderson resigned two weeks after he said that? Mission accomplished, so to speak. At least he didn't say it twice.


2. "Our [stimulus] plan will likely save or create three to four million jobs. 90 percent of these jobs will be created in the private sector."

Yes, of course. And then there was the pre-presidential white paper with the infamous graph that suggested the stimulus would help cap unemployment at 8.0%. It's probably not fair for me to hold Obama accountable for politically-motivated economic projections that are never right, no matter who makes them. But it would be fair for me to hold him accountable for his sleazy insinuation that government stimulus would primarily benefit the private sector.

As Michael Barone notes, public employment has remained largely constant in 2009, while private sector employment declined. In addition, about one-third of the $787 billion stimulus was meant for state and local governments. I'm no statistician, but Obama's idea of 90% seems to conflict with mine. Maybe it's me. Is it me?


1. "If you make under $250,000, you will not see your taxes increase by a single dime – not your income taxes, not your payroll taxes, not your capital gains taxes. Nothing. Because the last thing we should do in this economy is raise taxes on the middle-class."

Longtime readers will know this particular lie is dear to my heart. After being in office less than one month, Obama raised the federal tax on cigarettes by 71 cents to $1.00 per pack. Since Obama is a former (?) smoker himself, I find it hard to believe he doesn't know cigarette taxes primarily affect middle- and low-income Americans. This lie is number one not only because of how quickly it became manifest once Obama was in power, but because he's a bloody traitor.

Now, I understand some Americans don't think smokers are "real" poor people or whatever. But even if you don't count cigarettes, Obama's scheduled to break his tax promise on the first day of 2010, when 50 previously-enacted tax cuts will expire. So there.

In any event, I think we can all agree 2009 was crap. But at the same time, it had its moments. And really, it could have been worse. It could always be worse. Best wishes for a not-worse 2010, dear readers.


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Comments (135)

 
So...Obama's greatest presidential sin this year was to raise taxes on cigarrettes. The same thing that fucks your lungs up. Seriously?

Posted By: JA Toro (Guest)  on December 30, 2009 at 09:04 PM

 
 
I hardly see how raising the cigarette tax qualifies. It doesn't apply to everyone. It didn't affect me. I don't smoke. Don't like the tax? Don't smoke. Simple.

Posted By: Jed (Guest)  on December 30, 2009 at 09:28 PM

 
 
"As it happened, Congress passed the bill late on a Friday, and Obama signed it on a Tuesday"

Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday.

Nice math skills on that 'five day' lie.


Posted By: Rod Oracheski (Registered)  on December 30, 2009 at 09:45 PM

 
 
Rising the tax on cigarrettes... what an evil President. BURN HIM!!!!

Posted By: James C (Guest)  on December 30, 2009 at 09:51 PM

 
 
You should've done a top 10. I'm sure you wouldn't have had any problem finding 10 lines of bullshit from this hack.

Posted By: kaktus316 (Guest)  on December 30, 2009 at 10:07 PM

 
 
man this part of the site has become nothing more than conservative crap still bitter that their reps didn't win and what a joke they were...I have posted here before but never seem to see my posts...wonder if this one will make it...hmmm...

Posted By: xtopnotchx (Guest)  on December 30, 2009 at 10:28 PM

 
 
"As it happened, Congress passed the bill late on a Friday, and Obama signed it on a Tuesday"

Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday.

Nice math skills on that 'five day' lie.

Posted By: Rod Oracheski (Registered) on December 30, 2009 at 09:45 PM

Friday night to Tuesday in the afternoon is about 3 1/2 days. Thanks for playing.


Posted By: Math Wizard (Guest)  on December 30, 2009 at 10:31 PM

 
 
it is important people are reminded of all the promises he made while running for President... and how he has done very little to follow through with most of them.

Posted By: hmmmm (Guest)  on December 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM

 
 
there is what everyone wants. then there is the reality of the situation. many expected it to be sunshine and lollipops with obama. WRONG. he had to make tough decisions. he can watch the auto industry vanish or try to save it. either way, he will be viewed as a villian for it.

Posted By: rey (Guest)  on December 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM

 
 
You should've done a top 10. I'm sure you wouldn't have had any problem finding 10 lines of bullshit from this hack.

Posted By: kaktus316 (Guest) on December 30, 2009 at 10:07 PM

try a top 100 list, everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie,
i dont see how this piece of shit even got elected.


Posted By: guest 50 (Guest)  on December 30, 2009 at 10:45 PM

 
 
xtopnotchx, the same thing happens to my posts. Say anything they don't like and suddenly the conservative love of the Constitution and free speech flies out the window.

Like I doubt this will be posted, since I'm going to comment that for Enrique this is one of his weakest columns yet. A tax on cigarettes is Obama's biggest lie? Please. Why not go with Obama saying he didn't campaign on a public option when his own campaign website lists it in his platform? I might have voted for Obama and would like to see him keep improving our country, but I'm the first to point out how he's done more for conservatives than progressives in his first year in office.

And I second pointing out Enrique's lame stretch to say Obama didn't have the stimulus bill online for 5 WORKING days. Sorry, but that's not what he campaigned on.

But I don't know why I'm typing all this, since Enrique rarely posts my comments and never responds even if you call him on his lies. Your lies, Enrique - not Obama's.


Posted By: correction (Guest)  on December 30, 2009 at 11:20 PM

 
 
I agree with rey--no matter what Obama seems to do, he's going to get shit for it. Yes, he'll deserve some of it, but people want results now. It's not his fault that he inherited a shitty economy and two wars from his predecessor. Yeah, I'd like to see some more things being done to get America back on track, but I wasn't expecting this stuff to be done in a year.

Some of the lies are ones that I wouldn't have expected him to keep anyway and would have been shocked if he could. That doesn't make the situation right, but it's just like Bush 1's "Read my lips: no new taxes!" BS--it sounds really good but there's no way in hell it could be done.


Posted By: Zingy (Guest)  on December 30, 2009 at 11:42 PM

 
 
Correction,

Enrique does not edit the comments for his article you twit.

Obama could say Gary ML is a asshole and you would agree with it.

There is no conspiracy against you, you just don't say anything interesting.

Obama said unemployment would not go above 8% if we passed the stimulus. Either a lie or fail.

Obama said there would be no EARMARKS. Alot of the bills he has signed are littered with them.

The health care bill is going to cost a arm and a leg.

All you can comment is about smoking? Really?

I will ask you a question, would you have voted for him if the main thing he has done on the war on terror is change the name of it to "overseas contingency operations"? I guess the answer with you would be a resounding yes!!!!

Thats why no one cares what you have to say. Its tired Olberrmann ripped off crap you can read on the KOS.

Have a happy new year.


Posted By: John (Guest)  on December 30, 2009 at 11:59 PM

 
 
"I won't have to worry about putting gas in my car, I won't have to worry about paying my mortgage"

Posted By: Peggy Joseph (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 12:10 AM

 
 
You're missing the point on the cig tax, he did promise that no one making under 250 K a year will have there taxes raised. That's a lie. There's a tax, and there are plenty of cig smokers that make under 250K. And it's not a promise he'll be able to keep with all of this spending anyway. Forget about letting the Bush tax cuts expire. Those taxes are going up, and if you think it's just the rich that will get screwed, you're a complete moron with no sense on basic economics. And if Cap and Trade gets passed, utilities will go up. By definition, that's a tax, and I got news for you obama drones... it's gonna effect the middle and working class. All of those people making under 250K, they are the ones that will suffer, not the rich. It's the single mom that commutes 40 minutes to work every day that will suffer. And the "most transparent" president ever. What a joke. Theres a reason all of these bills get passed at these odd hours, and odd days. They do it so no one pays attention because americans simply don't support Obama's policies. They like the dude. Hell, I like the dude! Would never vote for him, but I wouldn't mind hanging out with the guy and shoot some hoops or whatever. He's likable. But this is a Center-Right country, and his view of the world just simply doesn't jive with the american people. He got voted in because he wasn't George W. Bush, and he was going against a very weak candidate in John McCain. Simple as that.

Posted By: gwpbrian (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 12:48 AM

 
 
You know, I actually gave this article a fair shot, but seriously, the best you could come up with is the cigarette tax? He didn't raise the tax on milk and bread, he raised the tax on cigrattes, which are a luxury item (and I am a smoker). If people can no longer afford cigarettes, Obama is actually doing those people a favor.
Wake me up when one of Obama's lies gets us into a very expensive war with another country that leads to the loss of many innocent lives. It's funny that conservatives suddenly want to analyze the president's truthfulness in such detail, while they happily swallowed all the horseshit George W. Bush shoved down our throats for 8 years.
Obama inherited a fucking nightmare thanks to Georgie Boy, so give him a break. He's cleaning up the mess that the conservatives have been making since 2000 when Bush stole the election and started ruining our economy.


Posted By: Tom (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 02:29 AM

 
 
dude, every politician lies. get over it.

Posted By: Guest#1024 (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 03:32 AM

 
 
So.....lets see how Enrique ACTUALLY did.

#5- The best example you could find of the 5th lie is a bill that was up for close to 4 days instead of 5. God knwos you would've posted a different one if you could find it.

#4-Actually, now you're the one lying, since the CBO further predicts the bill in question to be budget positive down the line.

#3-You call a lie on us owning GM base don a bailout that hapened before Obama was in office.

#2- You take a bold and wrong rpediction and turn it into a lie via cvlever usage of not knowing what the fuck simple words like lie mean.

#1- You're really reaching here. Did he raise taxes on the people he said he would? Yes or no....not..well..this group is somewhat represented here. Because if its jsut yes or no..you have to say no.

Instead, you go on and on and ignore that he said he wouldnt raise federal, state, capital gains, payroll taxes and kept to it.


Posted By: AdamS (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 05:11 AM

 
 
1- You wignuts should stop getting your views from Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh. They are walking, talking bags of shit.

2- I was in agreement with a number of points about Obama not making good with his campaign promises. The only elected leader I can think of who ever did make good on them was Hitler. Mind you, the surprise shown...It's almost like you you all get memory loss every four years.

Even then Enrique yanked defeat out of the jaws of success with calling Obama a traitor over cigarette taxes.


Posted By: Q:? (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 06:04 AM

 
 
Still better than George Bush. That guy barely said 5 truthful things in 8 years.

Posted By: Alex (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 09:03 AM

 
 
You forgot "the days of pork as policy are over"

The stimulus was loaded with pork. Spending bills loaded with pork. Healthcare bill loaded with pork. IMO, the most blatant lie of them all.


Posted By: Eric (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 10:15 AM

 
 
Good list.

1) Enrique, or any other "writer" for 411, does not mod posts. Sometimes things just don't show up...you're not that special Correction. Nothing you have to say will be life changing so just relax buddy...resend the comment.

2) Funny how the liberals attack Enrique for the smoking tax without offering a defense for any of the other things on the list. This is why liberals will be voted out in 2012...they can't justify anything and they stand for nothing.

The writer gives you four (perhaps five) really good reasons not to trust Obama...and you liberals pick out the tobacco tax comment from the entire argument to make a case?! Who would have guessed?

3) Lists are fun, I may try one.

Good job Enrique.


Posted By: Grant Muioc (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 10:18 AM

 
 
Oh no! Not cigarette taxes! Obama should be booted out of office for this injustice.

Posted By: Mr. Derp (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 10:39 AM

 
 
Wow...stretch much?

You're turning into a conservation nutball, Enrique.

Your hero's about to die anyway.


Posted By: Ramsey (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 11:07 AM

 
 
"And if Cap and Trade gets passed, utilities will go up. By definition, that's a tax"

This logic always baffles me. Basically you're trying to say that any tax on a company directly equals a tax on the customers of that company. But that's not true, by definition what is happening is the company is choosing to increase it's cost. So actually by definition it is not a tax on citizens, it's companies making a business decision to increase their prices.
What does a company do when they are faced with a system like cap and trade? They evaluate their options and decide what to do from there. Their options are as follows... 1) change nothing and lose profits due to the increased tax. 2) increase the price charged to customers. 3) look for ways to increase profit (either through cheaper production or increased sales), thus offsetting the tax increase.

In terms of utility companies, most of the time they don't have the option of increasing sales because they already have a set number of customers and they can't do much to influence their usage. (although increasing prices will drive down customer usage, which would be viewed as a good thing from the environmental perspective). Since they can't effectively increase sales, they would then look toward decreasing the cost of production. And, because of the cap and trade system, the easiest way for them to reduce production cost would be to control their pollution and save on the tax. Which is precisely the goal of cap and trade, to force companies to change from the status quo and place a cost on polluting the environment and force companies to weigh that cost into their business decisions. So no, cap and trade is definitely not a tax on citizens and anyone who claims otherwise is streching the truth.


Posted By: not a tax (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 12:12 PM

 
 
I'm not thrilled with him so far either, but calling him a "bloody traitor" for increasing the cigarette tax? Seriously? If you can't afford to smoke, quit. It's hard but lots of people do it. It's not traitorous - it's a move that pisses off a lot of people but is better for the country as a whole in the long run.

Posted By: matt (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 12:31 PM

 
 
To clarify something for anyone who is unclear, the writers at 411 have ZERO influence on moderation of comments. If that chore had been part of writing here, I probably wouldn't have applied. We find out what people have said the same way as you.

It's laughable to suggest that Ashish would stock the politics section with conservative writers when he was Obama's biggest cheerleader throughout the campaign. Despite his own pro-Obama stance, he gave me a space here and has never censored my views in any way.

While I won't speak for others, personally I have found my writing taking a seemingly conservative appearance over the last year because the policies I have seen differ dramatically from what was campaigned on. Note that I use the word POLICIES rather than results. It's one thing to say we can't expect all Obama's campaign promises to be fulfilled in our country's current state. What irks a lot of us is that the direction he has pulled in all year, when he bothers to involve himself, is decidedly different than what he previously led us to think.

To those saying raising cigarette taxes doesn't count, your logic is flawed. I can quit my job and avoid paying income tax, but that doesn't justify tax increases.

To anyone who claims the Bush tax cuts ending are the same as a tax increase, I would point out that most of us saw VERY little change on our paychecks when they took effect, which means we will likewise see very little change when taxes revert back. For all the big lies Obama has told, this one is a red herring. Amidst some unkind words, John made several important points that all deserve much more attention.


Posted By: Jason Douglas (Registered)  on December 31, 2009 at 01:00 PM

 
 
Everything Obama says is a lie. Enough said.

Posted By: Sad Truth (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 01:13 PM

 
 
No Comment

Posted By: John (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 01:15 PM

 
 
This Obama shit is stupid. Raising the price of cigz might not hurt the non-smokers but if you think about it raising the price by another dollar will probably cost the regular smoker $300. Now Jed says just quit smoking well let me tell you something sir why is their addiction labels on every pack? maybe thats why people just don't quit smoking. Stop eating obama's ass, he has done nothing since in office except go on vacation to meet other leaders of other countries! Furthur more maybe staying off maintream tv on such channels as BET and Muchmusic or even commenting on rappers such as Kanye calling him a jackass, maybe obama should act as a president( a leader) instead of acting like a jackass himself raising prices all over the country.

Posted By: Jeff (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 01:20 PM

 
 
Jason,
I did wish correction a happy new year

Correction,

I forgot this one...from Obama:"I’m going to have all the negotiations around a big table. We’ll have doctors and nurses and hospital administrators. Insurance companies, drug companies — they’ll get a seat at the table, they just won’t be able to buy every chair. But what we will do is, we’ll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies. And so, that approach, I think is what is going to allow people to stay involved in this process.”

I guess that lie was Bushes fault.


Posted By: John (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 01:21 PM

 
 
Any tax on corporations is going to end up being paid by the consumer. To say otherwise is to be completely ignorant of economic reality.

Which would actually explain a lot about government.


Posted By: Chris Connolly (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 01:27 PM

 
 
Who gives a shit if Obama increases the cigarette tax? You people shouldn't be poisoning your bodies with those toxins anyway.

Posted By: CM Punk (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 01:39 PM

 
 
Obama is a phoney puppet. All sizzle and no steak. Every word out of his mouth is a lie, unless it is about raising taxes, that is the only truth. How America got stuck between McCain and Obama, we'll never know. When will there be an election where we actually vote for someone you want in charge instead of voting for someone because you don't like the other guy. Lesser of 2 evils they call it. It is quite sad what America has become and it needs a change bad. Seriously, if you hate the way things are run, vote out the incombent and put new blood in office. Its funny to see mindless sheep keep putting the same people in charge, that do nothing but rape you of your hard earned dollar, lie to your face, and continue to pass measures that only effect the middle class. Rich stay rich and the poor stay poor, but atleast they get handouts.

Posted By: UnAmerican Hero (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 02:25 PM

 
 
Was there a column like this during the Bush Administration? Should we create a column as to how many lies that administration told to the country then lied again about lying the first time?

Lets take a quick look shall we:
They lied about the reasons we invaded Iraq several times: We were told they had WMD...they didn't. We were told they had a connection to 9/11...they didn't. We were told they helped Bin Laden..they didn't. Then the Bush Administration lied by saying it was faulty intelligence..then lied about that.

They lied about outing a CIA agent, then lied about lying about it.

They lied by saying they made America safer with the Dept of Homeland Security.

They lied about saying America doesn't torture, then they lied saying waterboarding isn't torture.

They even lie now by saying their inherited 9/11 from the Clinton Administration. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaoSxxh-aXg

They lied about raising the deficit, they lied about the economy, they lied about Hurricane Katrina, "You're doing a great job Brownie". They lied about everything

So Obama "lied" by raising a tax on cigarettes. HA, look at your income taxes from this year to last, it went DOWN comparable to your income from last year. SOOOO if you do a little adding and subtracting, you will see that even if you are a smoker, your income tax cut is more than the tax on your cigarettes, so HENCE, he lowered taxes.

Do your homework before you make claims like this...


Posted By: CB2379 (Registered)  on December 31, 2009 at 02:29 PM

 
 
He's the Devil!!!

Posted By: Superman (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 02:31 PM

 
 
Everything the man says is not true...

The sky is Blue? BULLSHIT
Earth is Round? BULLSHIT

I yearn for the days of Bush and cheney when you knew you weren't being lied too, everything was on the up and up.

Weapons of Mass destruction? CHECK -

I dont care what anyone says we found that 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent he was talking about..it's that dam liberal media hiding the fact that we did

Outing CIA operatives? CHECK

have to be honest and not hide info mind you we HAVE to know who everyone is who is undercover

Even out of Office we have cheney telling all of us that "As I've watched the events of the last few days it is clear once again that President Obama is trying to pretend we are not at war"

CHECK

Of course that's true...that dirty Obama...He has his GI Joe men and is "pretending" we aren't at war, playing with his toys in the oval office. That whole decision on Afghanistan he made was a total farce and lie..he's playing Call of Duty 4 and making his decisions based on that dammit!!

I wouldn't be surprised if that Harvard eduction dimwit in the white house attacks Russia soon thinking they are going to invade us!

Chaney/Bush 12' Term limits be damned!!!


Posted By: serious (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 02:33 PM

 
 
Just look at him. He looks like a damn chimp. He slings the shit at you like a chimp. He must be a chimp.

Posted By: Ape Hater (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 02:43 PM

 
 
Serious and CB2379,

George Bush isn't president anymore an has not been for almost a year.

Time to "move on" If any criticism of the president is going to be countered by the lefts extremely lame "BUSH BAD" crap,then 2010 will really be painful for you.

I will ask you a question, how is it hope and change to bitch about the last guy who had the job? One more, when will you leftys hold your messiah accountable for his policies and decisions?

BUSH, BUSH, PALIN, Beck, Limbau........ god its tired. According to your ilk, none of the problems are Obamas fault. Its all the responsibility of a ex president, a ex governor of Alaska and a couple of radio talk show hosts. All private citizens, none of which hold public office.

Good luck with that.


Posted By: John (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 03:11 PM

 
 
"Of course that's true...that dirty Obama...He has his GI Joe men and is "pretending" we aren't at war, playing with his toys in the oval office"

Serious, you are correct, Obama does not think we are at war. Its called a "overseas contingency operation"

There also is no more terror attacks, they are "man caused disasters" Thats how the left fights wars.


Posted By: Guest#4101 (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 03:15 PM

 
 
Dear E,
Shut up because you don't know what's good for you. Damn your free will. How dare you have an opinion that criticizes the greatest president since George Washington. No, George Washington was a slave owner. He's the greatest president ever!

Anyone who disagrees should go [blah, blah, blah] Bush and Cheney.

There is no hole we Obama can't spend his way out of. That's why it's called a money pit.

My mother went to Honduras to get treatment for her breast cancer because here in America the doctor would only prescribe children's Motrin, but wanted to conduct extensive tests first.

Obama and the Dems will lead this horse to water and ostracize any uneducated, toothless hillbilly Jesus freak who disagrees. They can just get back on their ATVs and mosey on over to their backwoods cabin for some more squirrel stew.

Time to push America to where it needs to be regardless of who stands in the way.

Love
Nancy Pelosi
p.s. vote for me


Posted By: Far Left Elitest (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 03:19 PM

 
 
"try a top 100 list, everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie,
i dont see how this piece of shit even got elected. "

That's what I thought about the last guy we elected...


Posted By: DSJ (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 03:27 PM

 
 
Obama is nothing more then a tax raising moron that wants big government. Big Government = More Taxes = Less Money For You. Do the freaking math.

Posted By: Truth Be Told (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 04:02 PM

 
 
"#4-Actually, now you're the one lying, since the CBO further predicts the bill in question to be budget positive down the line."

Do you actually believe that result? Do you know the number of dubious assumptions went into that result? Do you know the CBO is not counting nearly $500 billion in unfunded mandates on State budgets? Come on.


Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 04:07 PM

 
 
Obama is still way better than any conservative.

Posted By: SMS (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 04:44 PM

 
 
"#4-Actually, now you're the one lying, since the CBO further predicts the bill in question to be budget positive down the line."

Do you actually believe that result? Do you know the number of dubious assumptions went into that result? Do you know the CBO is not counting nearly $500 billion in unfunded mandates on State budgets? Come on.

Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on December 31, 2009 at 04:07 PM

Wishful thinking is accepted by libs to get their gigantic goverment boondoggles passed.


Posted By: Guest#5629 (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 05:04 PM

 
 
Obama is still way better than any conservative.

Posted By: SMS (Guest) on December 31, 2009 at 04:44 PM

At what, reading from a teleprompter and writing books about himself?


Posted By: Scott Levy (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 05:05 PM

 
 
One Big Awful Mistake, America...

Posted By: Guest#5768 (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 05:06 PM

 
 
Right on, Enrique! Obama hasn't told the truth since he was born in Kenya. He lied about his religion (he's a Muslim) and he lied about raising taxes (I can barely afford to smoke anymore). All you libs can whine and complain, but he's YOUR president and you can't deny his lies!

Posted By: ipman411 (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 05:22 PM

 
 
Gitmo?

Posted By: Guest#0023 (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 05:24 PM

 
 
BUSH, BUSH, PALIN, Beck, Limbau........ god its tired. According to your ilk, none of the problems are Obamas fault. Its all the responsibility of a ex president, a ex governor of Alaska and a couple of radio talk show hosts. All private citizens, none of which hold public office.

Good luck with that.

Posted By: John (Guest) on December 31, 2009 at 03:11 PM


Actually John, It took your "ilk" 8 years to fuck the country up...I'm not about to throw this guy under the bus in a year even if he isn't 100% on point with every last thing he is trying to do.

You guys can cry and complain about oh, all you gys do is cry about bush and cry about the last administration...well guess what...your DAM RIGHT!

NOBODY who is blaming bush for shit should have to apologize for it because guess what...he was a fuck up plain and simple and the majority of the problems in this country are a DIRECT RESULT of policies he led and put into effect.

Thats like your one of your kids knocking all the food off your dinner table then walking away with a mess all over the floor. Then getting mad at your other kid trying to clean it up for missing a spot here and there.

Go ahead bitch and moan and cry about WHAH THEY KEEP CRYING ABOUT BUSH...WHAH THAT ISN'T FAIR...WHAT ABOUT OBAMA!!! WHAH

Yeah lets blame the guy in office for a year for all the problems and not give him a chance...that sounds like a brilliant plan....what is your plan by the way...all i see is people willing to bitch and moan for the next 4 years and not give the guy a chance.

The man could cure cancer, drop the deficit, Bitch slap Bin Laden in a UFC fight and tattoo old glory on his ass before blowing his head off, and you guys would still not be happy.

I get it you expect him to clean up this mess in a year...I get it. Well I voted for him and I had NO DELUSION that this was going to be fixed in a year. That's why these guys get a 4 year term. IF after 4 years nothing is changed...well he was a fuck up then...But until he has a fair chance to fix things (and 1 year isn't) I'm not going to bitch and moan or pull Glen Beck and start crying about it.

BTW didn't see any of you flag huggers and Glen Beck lovers complain when they passed the Patriot Act and basically whipped there ass with your rights? But Obama is the bad guy...um Ok then...priorities.


Posted By: Jokers...all of ya (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 06:05 PM

 
 
Just some quick facts.

In 2008 96% of African Americans voted for Obama, in 2004 88% voted for Kerry. Doesn't seem like much of an increase until you look and see that 2.88 million more African Americans voted in 2008 than in 2004.

What caused this increase in African American voters? There's no hundred percent answer, but by the number of T-shirts, hats, bumper stickers, lava lamps, etc... that have the phrase "We're in the White House now", I think that I can make a very educated guess.


Posted By: TRUTH (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 06:18 PM

 
 
Hysterical - my comment made it but correction's didn't!

Posted By: ipman411 (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 07:00 PM

 
 
Correction's an idiot - the 411mania writers don't mod their own comments. He's just mad because his lord Obama is a failure.

Posted By: Enrique's biggest fan (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 07:03 PM

 
 
BTW didn't see any of you flag huggers and Glen Beck lovers complain when they passed the Patriot Act and basically whipped there ass with your rights? But Obama is the bad guy...um Ok then...priorities.

Posted By: Jokers...all of ya (Guest) on December 31, 2009 at 06:05 PM

Your name is very fitting.

What rights did I lose with the patriot act smart guy? I can think of one, if I call a known terrorist someone might listen for info. See, here is the thing, I don't comunicate with known terrorists on the telephone. You libs bitch about the patriot act, how do you explain this: from dissenting justice(about as left wing as it gets)
Patriot Act
"Liberals have very passionately criticized the Patriot Act, which gives the President greater access to people's private records and communications under the guise of hunting terrorists. Despite liberal criticism, the Patriot Act passed with wide majorities in both Houses of Congress. Furthermore, the same powerful Democrats who supported the Iraq War voted for the Patriot Act as well. Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, also voted in favor of the measure.

Reauthorization of the Patriot Act
Congress reauthorized the Patriot Act in 2006. A majority of House Democrats voted against reauthorization, but only 9 Senate Democrats voted against it. Some of the biggest power brokers in the Democratic Party supported reauthorization of the Patriot Act, including former Representative Rahm Emanuel, who is now Obama's Chief of Staff. Senators Clinton, Biden, Kennedy, and Reid also voted for reauthorization. And the most powerful Democrat -- President Obama -- voted for reauthorization. If passage of the Patriot Act makes Bush the worst president, then Democrats who voted in favor of the law deserve condemnation as well."

As far as me "crying" all I have done is point out that his stimulus bill was supposed to hold unemployment under 8%, its full of earmarks that he said were not going to fly under his administration,lies about C-span televising the health care debate and the costs of the bill, etc, etc

I will leave you with this, from Hillary Clinton:"I'm sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we're Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration."

So I will keep point out how big of a teleprompter reading, elctricity rates will skyrocket cap and trade supporting, lying, "overseas contingency operations" saying failure that he has been.


Posted By: John (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 07:11 PM

 
 
How about the Public Option? That was a LIE. How about mandates on health care?? Another whopper. What a lying dick, no better than W.

Posted By: Concerned (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 07:48 PM

 
 
Either way W still sucked.

Posted By: the dude (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 07:51 PM

 
 
I can't believe people are NOT enraged that two sellouts like Max Baucus (known for taking millions from the health care lobby) and Harry Reid are FORCING Americans to buy health insurance or PAY PENALTIES. Isn't this unconstitutional?

Posted By: Concerned (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 07:53 PM

 
 
John just kicked Jokers ass.

Posted By: Guest#0129 (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 08:25 PM

 
 
Yeah, you really helped your credibility by citing the cigarette tax hike as the biggest lie he made in office. I'm a smoker myself and even I agree that that was a dumb point to crucify him for.

Posted By: Jerry (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 09:00 PM

 
 
Alot of people i know only voted for him because he s black.

Posted By: ???? (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 10:55 PM

 
 
Ok john lets see what ya got buddy.

Here is your list of bill of rights ideas that have been lost:

1st amendment - You can be subject to government investigation simply because of the company you keep or religion/political affiliation you practice IE Domestic Spying

4th amendment - secret searches and wiretaps without probably cause - they only need to say its for a "significant purpose", not to mention monitoring your emails to whom and what your sending. Judicial oversight of these has been thrown out the window

4th amendment - You can know gave your doctor or personal records seized all that needs to be said is they are investigating "terrorism"

5th amendment - Due process, AMERICANS can be jailed without due process or formal charges or to see evidence against them

6th amendment - Government can now monitor talks between Lawyers and Clients, not to mention papers where filed under this act denying legal council because that act would interfere with interrogations

8th amendment - Cruel and unusual punishment - and while many of those rounded up where not citizens some where namely Jose Padilla (born in NYC) just to name one person.

so you see John where you see democrat/republican and that is all, I see a joke of a bill that should have never been passed or re-authorized EVER.

You want to keep making this about Republican/Democrat go ahead and see where that gets you... Bush was a fuck up for 8 years....Obama has had about 1 to clear things up, if he doesnt do it...hes a fuck up too.

I dont really get what your point is...is it "your side" republicans always have 100% of the answers all the time? Because that isn't the case...or is it fuck democracy and it should be a one party system and to hell with anyone with a liberal idea or to hell with any democrats because they cant possible have anything constructive to add, is that it?

If that is it than you know see why the country is in the sorry state it is in..instead of caring about the country everyone has taken sides like a god dam sports team and to hell with truth and liberty...GJ!!


Posted By: Jokers...all of ya (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 11:01 PM

 
 
I believe #1 should be reenacting the Patriot Act. When he ran for office he said he was going to get rid of it and one of the first things he did was sign on to keep it. That there was enough to see right through what that fool says. All politicians are the same. They only give a shit about themselves and no one else. If they really cared they wouldn't force healthcare on everyone, they wouldn't spy on their citizens and last but not least, they would actually listen to what the people have to say, instead of letting lobbyists line their pockets for what the very few of this country want. Fact is money goes a long way in America and if you don't have it, you will never get what you want. The way it is and always will be. Governmets should have to fear the people, not people fear the government.

Posted By: Enough is Enough (Guest)  on December 31, 2009 at 11:43 PM

 
 
So, they lie to get into office, and you're upset that they lie once they get into office?

strange.


Posted By: Ant-LOX (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 12:13 AM

 
 
CIGARETTES! Even Hitler had standards!

I jest of course, and agree with you. Obama is a lier.


Posted By: Guest#8841 (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 01:30 AM

 
 
2) Funny how the liberals attack Enrique for the smoking tax without offering a defense for any of the other things on the list.

Posted By: Grant Muioc (Guest) on December 31, 2009 at 10:18 AM


Preobably because it was number 1.


Posted By: Miz fan (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 07:00 AM

 
 
I don't know. I think they attack the cigarettes because everything else he pointed out is true. And all I hear right now is how Bush screwed everything up but at least when there was a major terrorism attack (it is an attack reguardless if it succeeded or not) he did not wait three days to comment on it while his hand picked head of Homeland Security said the whole system worked.

Posted By: killgart (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 10:32 AM

 
 
It amazes me how quickly people like you line up fast to hang your rear end over the edge, waiting to take a dump on the first things that come out of his mouth. He's only been in office a year for Christ sake!! It's going to take a a little longer than that to fix Bush's screw ups!!

Get with the program, Jackson!!!


Posted By: Ben (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 11:27 AM

 
 
Face it, America picked a damn failure to be president just like they always do. When will your country pick someone they want as president instead of picking the lesser of two evils?

Posted By: Foregin Object (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 11:37 AM

 
 
Hey Enrique, as someone who voted for Obama and subsequently unimpressed by his first year in office, you really think taxing cigarettes is his biggest trangression? Really?

Posted By: Pedro (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 12:18 PM

 
 
Glad to see he raised taxes on smokers-if you smoke-having the taxes raised should be the least of your worries.

Posted By: TheTruth (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 01:12 PM

 
 
My favorite type of corporate shill is the kind with no actual connections to the money - or , in other words, a complete fool. Fox and Rush are well paid to misinform people. You're doing it for free. Shows dedication to the cause. Nice work, Enrique. You're one of my new favorites.

Posted By: Guest (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 01:43 PM

 
 
this is so annoying how we sit here and fight about who is saving the counrty and whos going to distroy it if we only worked together and quit fucking acting like teenage school girls then we can make this country work insted oftrying to one up each other, sit on the other side of the room for once

Posted By: bout to move to canada (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 01:54 PM

 
 
As a smoker and also someone who has and will continue to vote for Obama, I would say this list is mostly fair. I don't think your #1 was as much of a lie as it was not being careful about his wording. He was speaking in the context of income tax if I remember correctly, and should have specified as much. Besides that, nice job speaking truth to power. It's what you're good at, so keep it up man.

Posted By: James (Registered) (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 05:57 PM

 
 
Alot of people i know only voted for him because he s black.

Posted By: ???? (Guest) on December 31, 2009 at 10:55 PM

How many voted against him because he's black?


Posted By: Guest#1770 (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 06:05 PM

 
 
*is never going to the politics section of 411 ever again*

Raising a tax on cigarettes will maybe make some people not buy them. But no, considering they're stupid enough to buy them ALREADY, well aware of the dangers they cause, they'll still buy them.

Any Obama hater, or McCain hater for that matter, can kiss my ass. Politics are stupid, and they drive people insane.

And to anyone that is hating on Obama, why'd you vote for him in the first place, you hypocrites?

Fuck politics.


Posted By: Jonathan (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 10:01 PM

 
 
lol at bitching about the cigarette tax. Get a fucking life. If I were president I would make Cigarettes cost $20 a pack and $15 of that would go to taxes. Its no ones fucking fault but your own if you refuse to quit

Posted By: Guest#8278 (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 10:26 PM

 
 
"Obama is nothing more then a tax raising moron that wants big government. Big Government = More Taxes = Less Money For You. Do the freaking math.

Posted By: Truth Be Told (Guest) on December 31, 2009 at 04:02 PM"

Dude, America has one of the lowest tax rates in the western world. That's why your health and education systems were so underfunded during the Bush administration.

You've got two choices- one, everyone pays more tax (mainly the rich who can afford it), the government has money, and they spend that money to improve health, education, social security and the economy (which is what happened under Clinton). It's a well known fact that better education leads to better economy.

Or two, you can pay less tax and have 'more money for you', and have to suffer more years of a broke government not doing anything because they don't have the money to do anything.

People bitch about Obama doing nothing, then they also bitch about taxes going up. If you really want him to do anything, taxes have to go up first because as far as I'm aware, the American government is basically broke at the moment, even before the GFC.

For the record, I'm from Australia and our tax rates are way higher than in America. Despite this, our health and education systems have a few problems, plus the city I live in doesn't even have enough money in the budget to build a decent sports stadium or concert venue. If the government announced they were going to raise taxes even higher to pay for this stuff, I'd be more than happy.

BTW Enrique, calling Obama a 'bloody traitor' for raising the cigarette tax is absolutely retarded. It's not like he sold state secrets to the Middle East or something.


Posted By: Guy (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 11:47 PM

 
 
Sorry, but he should've made the cigarette tax FIFTY times higher. And no, that's not a lie. He was talking about income taxes and everybody with a brain (Enrique not included) knows it.

When do we get a "Top 5,000 Enrique lies of the past 10 minutes" article?


Posted By: JD (Guest)  on January 01, 2010 at 11:58 PM

 
 
"I don't know. I think they attack the cigarettes because everything else he pointed out is true. And all I hear right now is how Bush screwed everything up but at least when there was a major terrorism attack (it is an attack reguardless if it succeeded or not) he did not wait three days to comment on it while his hand picked head of Homeland Security said the whole system worked."

It was attacked because it was a VERY WEAK number one. Trying to support something that causes death is pathetic. When they end up with lung cancer they'll be looking for sympathy trying to act like its not partly their fault. Like so many of the idiots they have on those T.R.U.T.H. commercials. Take the hint while you still have a chance


Posted By: Guest#1780 (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 12:27 AM

 
 
Gotta love how jokers just conveniently overlooks the fact that Obama himself voted to re-authorize the patriot act in 2006, and since expanded on it while in office. Hope and change!

Posted By: gwpbrian (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 02:12 AM

 
 
Hahahahaha

Obama lied :'(

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah why can't Mccain be president.

Scoreboard, sucker.


Posted By: Guest#1616 (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 04:30 AM

 
 
Oh conservatives. You are all so funny. I don't even get mad or angry when you open your big fat mouths just because of how insanely wrong you always are.

It is hilarious.


Posted By: Guest#6172 (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 04:31 AM

 
 
Poor defenders of Obama really the only thing you can find to bash in this article is the very last piece? Since 1 part is kind of a stretch you bums ignore the rest. Typical of blind followers of Obama.

Maybe from here on all you dingleberries on Obamas ass will try to dispute the rest.

Or you can keep talking about cigarettes cause you have no other arguments to make.

Check and Mate


Posted By: URthaDOGsniffingObamasBUTT (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 05:50 AM

 
 
YEAH! He's a bloody traitor!Because he made cigarettes more expensive. How dare he! People should have the free will to get lung cancer!

Posted By: Guest#4404 (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 06:34 AM

 
 
Wow, some still are drinking the Obama Kool-Aid. They still believe Obama is going to save them! If if wont for that damn Republican Congress, err scratch that Democrats control that too. So why is it he cant get nothing done and lies alot? Don't answer that, I just remember what I was told as a child, Don't argue with idiots, they will drag you down to there level and beat you with experience. If you can honestly say that Obama has turned this country around and lived up to what he promised, then YOU really need to seek some help.

Posted By: HAHAPolitics (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 08:46 AM

 
 
Ok I really should have said satire(Since that's how the description describes it.)

Posted By: Dave (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 10:05 AM

 
 
I'll second that this should have been a top 10. Or it would be interesting if someone did a top 5 Obama lies to the left.

The reason the cigarette tax is good for #1 is that his 'NO Tax increases for people under $250k' campaign promise was repeated OVER AND OVER AGAIN. It was his central theme. The cigarette tax broke this promise; it was a lie.

Obama is a very dishonest man. His campaign was engineered to convince everyone that he agreed with THEIR position (Forer Effect). It was a con. That's why there is so much disappointment on the left now.

It is true that all politicians lie. Obama is a very excellent politician as usual.


Posted By: Eric (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 01:48 PM

 
 
the issue is politicians. left wing right wing. they are all the same, and since americans have such diverse views and opinions, a large portion of the population will never be satisfied.

Posted By: supa sta (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 01:53 PM

 
 
Funny how lefties bring up the patriot act, then get real quiet when people bring up Obamas re-authorization of it.

Posted By: Guest#2590 (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 02:18 PM

 
 
Gotta love how jokers just conveniently overlooks the fact that Obama himself voted to re-authorize the patriot act in 2006, and since expanded on it while in office. Hope and change!

Posted By: gwpbrian (Guest) on January 02, 2010 at 02:12 AM

Actually gotta love the fact that the rant wasn't about left, right OR about Obama or Bush BUT about how bad the patriot act was and as I said it should have NEVER been voted for. The claim was rights weren't changed and I ripped that apart with FACTS

But that's ok keep playing your silly left/right bullshit and run the country into the ground with it...we will see where that gets us...and you also seem in your infinite wisdom to be missing the entire point which was 8 years vs 1 year.

give the guy his due and if he sucks the joint up well than he proves to be no better.....but the problem is all you obama haters and all you bush loving people wont even give the guy his due in spite of the fact bush took 8 years to run the place into the ground and you want this guy to fix it in one...yeah that's REAL REALISTIC


Posted By: Jokers...all of ya (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 02:32 PM

 
 
Obama never lies, everything the messiah says is true. I am so lucky to be alive during Obamas life.I will have evil, white, conservative men pay my bills while I lay on the couch all day.

The private sector is horrible. They want to make a profit, how dare they? Everything should be distributed equally, it works in Cuba."From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" My professor says I am special.

I hate the patriot act. Its all Bush. I will ignore the democrats support of it. No wars, ever. I will not protest wars when democrats are in office. Cindy Sheehan is so wonderful.

I hate religion and will attack christianity every chance I get. I will not make the same arguments against muslims becuase they will chop off my head.

I am progressive. Al Gore is a saint. Global warming is real and Gore needs his private jet to tell everyone about it.

Ban guns, kill fetuses.

I am a liberal


Posted By: Berkley Boy (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 02:33 PM

 
 
"Actually gotta love the fact that the rant wasn't about left, right OR about Obama or Bush BUT about how bad the patriot act was and as I said it should have NEVER been voted for. The claim was rights weren't changed and I ripped that apart with FACTS"

Joker,

What facts? All you did was list a bunch of amendments that you perceive to have changed. Nothing has changed. your worried about your rights, don't comunicate with Al-Quieda and you should be OK. You provided one name(Jose Padilla) a terrorist in his own right....from wikipedia:"On January 3, 2006, he was transferred to a Miami, Florida, jail to face criminal conspiracy charges. On August 16, 2007, José Padilla was found guilty, by a federal jury, of charges against him that he conspired to kill people in an overseas jihad and to fund and support overseas terrorism." You think that asshole is a victim? Sounds like this douche bag got his day in court. Did your comunity college professor tell you different?

Again, Joker, you came out with all of this Bush bullshit. I attached the fact that your guy Obama voted for the re-authorization of the patriot act. ANSWER WHY YOUR GUY THINKS THIS IS A GOOD BILL.

Frankly, you sound like Berkley boy.


Posted By: John (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 03:45 PM

 
 
I feel sorry for terrorists like Jose Padilla

Posted By: Berkley Boy (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 03:50 PM

 
 
It’s interesting to note how history is being looked at here. People are quick to point out the enactment of the Patriot act during the Bush administration as part of a loss of fundamental constitutional rights during war. It’s interesting to note that habeas corpus was also circumvented during World War II by five-term Democratic President Franklin Roosevelt.

If there was a situation where there was a possible risk to intelligence or security the “person in question” would be taken to a psychiatric hospital for evaluation. This evaluation, interestingly enough, happened to last for the duration of the war. Also, lest we not forget, were the Japanese internment camps; which held United States citizens who were not even under any other suspicion, other than being Japanese.

Another thing which began during Roosevelt’s administration was the advent of Social Security, which can be looked at as one of our greatest achievements of compassion and one of our greatest albatross-like money pits. It was thought, much as many people argue today about health care, that it would be a safety net for the infirmed and elderly. Which in many cases it has been, but it was originally established to combat the ‘Great Depression’. And it’s creation in that effort was a huge failure. We escaped the ‘Great Depression’ due to World War Two. It helped out country two fold. 1. It created and spurred job growth in industrial industries and in the military. 2. It reduced our population about 1-2 percent and reduced the world’s population by 2-3 percent over all; much greater numbers in Europe and Asia than other continents of course. Why is this important? Because the war created jobs, it reduced the population, it spurred technology and research; I’m not advocating war as a good thing but as the reason the WORLD was able to escape the Great Depression. It was due to jobs, not hand outs.

And now today, we still live the legacy of Social Security Administration, which grows on average 1-2 percent less than the rate of inflation, leaving a group of elderly and infirmed people under cared for, another group of baby-boomers about ready to take their rightful advantage to be compensated by it and a much smaller group of Gen-Xer’s that are going to be forced to foot the bill for this monstrosity. And when there was an attempt to lamely privatize a portion of it, it argued and voted down through a smear and fear campaign by Democratic leaders. Ironically, the members of the House and Senate do not have to be burdened with the type of social security benefits we will receive when we retire, they are allowed a choice. A-hem, but that’s not the point.


Posted By: Joequando (Registered)  on January 02, 2010 at 04:18 PM

 
 
Ironically, they won’t have to be burdened with using the Health Care option they will offer to us as well; they have an extremely generous Health Plan, I’m starting to see a pattern here.

This argument shouldn’t be about who is right and who’s wrong but instead about fiduciary responsibility. And yes, I have a problem with any administration that has so far in less than one year spent more than all other administration combined and plan to double it through the implementation of a health care plan that at this point not every state will have to follow equally. (Nebraska…I’m talking to you.)

Posters have mentioned the issue with the indirect tax with cigarettes. Well you’re right if you’re a smoker, it doesn’t matter. But remember, there are tobacco farms in Virginia and other states (Ask Al Gore, his father was a tobacco farmer, that’s how they made their family fortune.) If they price cigarettes out of the market, that’s less jobs and ergo less income, corporate and sales taxes that will be collected. Which means over the long term there will be less tax money earned overall, I’m sure we can expect the same issue occur with soda, fast food, trans far and non-green products soon, so don’t worry eventually (Much more quickly if Cap & Trade is passed) you’ll be seeing a much bigger hit to your pocket book from the government with no additional direct taxes. Yay?

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned yet too but I think it should is the possibility of abortions being funded by the government with this health plan. OK, if you’re an atheist it’s alright to sue and protest to keep a Nativity scene or the Ten Commandments from a court or a school due to separation of Church and State. But if you’re a Christian or of another Religious persuasion that does not condone abortion, it doesn’t matter because you’re tax dollars will fund it anyway and your personal beliefs be damned.

I think Comrade Obama is a Socialist, I think he’s not as much of a liar as people are trying to make him. He mentioned he was going to do this type of thing while he was running for office. The real problem was that the majority of the people who voted for him are now surprised because they only listened to the little bits and pieces of his catches phrases (hope, change) and not think about the possible consequences of his actions if he actually implements his concepts.
The next time we hear his catchy catch phrases will be in sentences like this:
I HOPE this guy can spare some CHANGE.

I think we can predict how Health care will work just by looking at how our government has done with everything else that they’ve been put in control of, we’ll be lucky to get Fifty cents back out of every tax dollar we pay in.


Posted By: Joequando (Registered)  on January 02, 2010 at 04:19 PM

 
 
OK, if you’re an atheist it’s alright to sue and protest to keep a Nativity scene or the Ten Commandments from a court or a school due to separation of Church and State. But if you’re a Christian or of another Religious persuasion that does not condone abortion, it doesn’t matter because you’re tax dollars will fund it anyway and your personal beliefs be damned.

Posted By: Joequando (Registered) on January 02, 2010 at 04:19 PM

1) What is stopping you from protesting such an allocation of federal funds?

2) What is stopping you from filing a lawsuit?

3) The previous administration spent BILLIONS of tax dollars on Christian-inspired abstinence-based sex education.


Posted By: Guest#9591 (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 05:12 PM

 
 
Oh, this is too funny. Now people are saying 411 stacks its politics zone with right wing nut jobs. Two years ago, comments were all about the "liberal" slant at 411 politics...

Seriously, some people here need to get a grip!

Columns and blog sites will generally focus on the admin/gov. in power. Criticism of that body in power always end up being primary foci. Sure, the writers have changed over at the zone over the past year or so, but so has the presidency in this country.

People, relax. Read a column or two. Enjoy. If you disagree, fine. Stop slamming the zone or the writer.

I'll raise the example of Joe Rivett again. Folks thought he was a Bush butt buddy. Then they called him a liberal lefty crazy.

Things change; policies are always in flux; results and effects of policies are constantly moving, shifting; it's organic.

Too many of you are locked into only one camp of thinking and can't escape out of your proverbial paper bag...


Posted By: Crow21 (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 06:29 PM

 
 
What facts? All you did was list a bunch of amendments that you perceive to have changed. Nothing has changed. your worried about your rights, don't comunicate with Al-Quieda and you should be OK. You provided one name(Jose Padilla) a terrorist in his own right....from wikipedia:"On January 3, 2006, he was transferred to a Miami, Florida, jail to face criminal conspiracy charges. On August 16, 2007, José Padilla was found guilty, by a federal jury, of charges against him that he conspired to kill people in an overseas jihad and to fund and support overseas terrorism." You think that asshole is a victim? Sounds like this douche bag got his day in court. Did your comunity college professor tell you different?

Again, Joker, you came out with all of this Bush bullshit. I attached the fact that your guy Obama voted for the re-authorization of the patriot act. ANSWER WHY YOUR GUY THINKS THIS IS A GOOD BILL.

Frankly, you sound like Berkley boy.

Posted By: John (Guest) on January 02, 2010 at 03:45 PM


I haven't perceived that they have changed they HAVE changed. So based on your argument we are going back to the days of McCarthyism where all it takes is being accused of something for your rights to go out the window.

So because Padilla was found guilty he should not have had to stand trail, or gotten due process? He was an AMERICAN BORN AND BREED AND WAS HELD FOR 5 YEARS WITHOUT A TRAIL! I see you forgot to mention that huh?

You want to say some of these other guys don't deserve those rights that's fine and a different argument as this isn't about them it's about us and what the government can and can't do.

You want to sit there and call Obama "my boy"...really I though the president of the Unites States was all "our boy". It's that fucking attitude and contempt people like you have, which makes people like me shake my head and find it hard to take you seriously. Last I checked after 9/11 Bush had one of the highest approval ratings in the history of this country. Nobody from the left was playing sides. It was through his actions that those ratings went down.

Seems to me now that someone from a red state isn't in office the blue state guy doesn't get the same consideration.

Yeah Obama voted for it, nobody is 100% perfect or even 80% for the most part. So what he voted for something I disagree with and all of a sudden he is a complete fuck up with everything else? Well sorry to disappoint but there are going to be bad calls along with good with anyone. It's when the bad outweigh the good is when there is a problem.

You want to sit here and clearly bitch and moan about the next 4 years go right ahead, if after 4 years he blows chucks I will be there with you. Until then I'm giving him a chance, which seems to be more than your willing to do


Posted By: Jokers...all of ya (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 06:47 PM

 
 
Not going to side with either the pro or anti Patriot Act. However, according to article 1 section 9 of the American constitution states: "The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." Whether it applies to terrorist now will be up for debate since many constitutional scholars will always have different interpretations.

Posted By: BKS (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 06:50 PM

 
 
Ther has been a crow sighting

Posted By: John (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 08:08 PM

 
 
Obama never lies, everything the messiah says is true. I am so lucky to be alive during Obamas life.I will have evil, white, conservative men pay my bills while I lay on the couch all day.

Posted By: Berkley Boy (Guest) on January 02, 2010 at 02:33 PM

Sir, your exagerated generalizations have truly added to this conversation in a meaningfull way! Now then..

1) I've yet to hear anyone make the claim that ANY politician, our current president included, has abstained from lying.

2) The only people I see referring to the President as "the mesiah" are his opposition. The same "journalists" who constantly refer to him as "Hussein"

3) You ARE lucky to be alive during Obama's life. Not because of him, but because, compared to the previous 15000 years, this is a great time to be alive.

4) I've yet to hear anyone recommend we do away with the private sector. I've heard plenty of people bitch about the inequity of income distribution which will eventually turn this country into a prison state.

5) The fact that Democrats supported the Patriot Act does not ameliorate its flaws.

The idea that so many conservatives are frightened to death of "Obama" encroaching on their civil liberties, when NO such sentiment was expressed when a white evangelical was President reflects either hypocrisy, blind fear, or both.

War is a necessity. Ever heard of the 1968 Democratic convention? There was a "little bit" of a war protest there. Cindy Sheehan, while annoying, is exercising her 1st amendment rights.

6) Religion is an impediment to human progress. While Islam does not receive the same degree of criticism in America that Christianity does, this is due to the VAST difference in the #s of followers. However, they HAVE received criticism (see Hamtramick, MI)

Not to mention that, the only reason Christians are chopping off heads in America is because science and enlightenment have diluted the influence of religion in society.

6) Global warming MUST just be a giant myth concocted by scientists to receive funding, right? Then again, science isnt correct anyways, is it? The giant sky man is in control.

And of course, the fact that Al Gore is a hypocritical politician means that the entire environmentalist movement is worthless. And yet, religion stands in the face of endless hypocrisy at all levels!

7) Abortion is awful. So is government influence in your personal life. Remember? And why even BOTHER implementing reasonable gun laws? Criminals will break those laws, so why even pass them?

8) If it werent for progressives, women wouldnt be able to vote, blacks would be slaving on plantations, and only rich white protestants would own any land. It'd be your dream come true!

Sorry about screwing that up for you.


Posted By: Guest#6777 (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 02:14 AM

 
 
jokers... so why bring up the patriot act at all. You originally said that its a mess that Obama needs to clean up. Well he helped make that mess, by voting for it, and now expanded on it.

As for Iraq, Obama wasn't there in 2002 to actually vote for the war. As Hillary said "all he he has is a speech from 2002." He never had to say yay or nay, so we don't really know one way or another how he really even feels on Iraq either. I GUESS we can take him at his word. But then again, he votes for things like the Patriot Act.

1. Promises to close Gitmo in a year, with no plan on how to actually do that, or worse yet, know what to do with the detainees (who in case you libs forgot, aren't boy scouts).

2. Signs a "stimulus" bill with TONS of pork, even though he promised the days of pork were over.

3. Promised the liberals single payer, even though tingle up their legs everytime he speaks liberals like Chris Matthews deny him ever saying it. Now their isn't even a public option, and the bill is more or less going to turn into every other thing the government tries to do, and just a reason to print more money for something that simply doesn't do anything, much less make our health care system better.

4. He promised no lobbyists in his administration, yet it's littered with them. And if they aren't lobbyists they're tax cheats.

5. He promised that unemployment wouldn't rise above 8 % IF and ONLY IF the stimulus was passed.


Posted By: gwpbrian (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 02:35 AM

 
 
Cigarettes? Seriously? Who gives a shit.

Posted By: poffo316 (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 06:08 AM

 
 
You want to sit here and clearly bitch and moan about the next 4 years go right ahead, if after 4 years he blows chucks I will be there with you. Until then I'm giving him a chance, which seems to be more than your willing to do

Posted By: Jokers...all of ya (Guest)  on January 02, 2010 at 06:47 PM

You're fucking kidding me right? Or did you slip into a coma nine years ago?

After four years? Until then? Benefit of the doubt? You expect me to believe you weren't one of those bitching about Bush from day one over the election results? Did you, and your ilk, even give him one fucking day? No.

And you are gonna lecture us about bitching for the next four years when it's you and your type that bitched up a storm for EIGHT damn years? (and still are for that matter)

Go sell your bullshit somewhere else you fucking charlatan. You're damn right I'm gonna bitch, just like you miserable mutherfuckers have since November of 2000!!!! Get real fucking used to it. Now that the shoes other foot you turn into a whiny little bitch.


Posted By: Japhe ryder (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 06:39 AM

 
 
"You're fucking kidding me right? Or did you slip into a coma nine years ago?

After four years? Until then? Benefit of the doubt? You expect me to believe you weren't one of those bitching about Bush from day one over the election results? Did you, and your ilk, even give him one fucking day? No.

And you are gonna lecture us about bitching for the next four years when it's you and your type that bitched up a storm for EIGHT damn years? (and still are for that matter)

Go sell your bullshit somewhere else you fucking charlatan. You're damn right I'm gonna bitch, just like you miserable mutherfuckers have since November of 2000!!!! Get real fucking used to it. Now that the shoes other foot you turn into a whiny little bitch.

Posted By: Japhe ryder (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 06:39 AM


You have no idea what you are even talking about do you...

Bush Jr's approval ratings where between 50-60% when he took office between January and May 2001 - Higher than Obama now.

In 2001 after 9/11 it was at an all time record of 90%. Even during the onset of the Iraq war in 03 it was roughly 75%.

It went steadily downhill after that with the only spike coming after we captured Sadam...so tell me Japhe who and what are all these people you are talking about who were all against Bush when he took office, in the first few years?

THE FACTS WOULD SHOW OTHERWISE...SO WHY DONT YOU SELL YOUR BULLSHIT ELSWHERE


Posted By: Jokers...all of ya (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 10:32 AM

 
 
jokers... so why bring up the patriot act at all. You originally said that its a mess that Obama needs to clean up. Well he helped make that mess, by voting for it, and now expanded on it.

As for Iraq, Obama wasn't there in 2002 to actually vote for the war. As Hillary said "all he he has is a speech from 2002." He never had to say yay or nay, so we don't really know one way or another how he really even feels on Iraq either. I GUESS we can take him at his word. But then again, he votes for things like the Patriot Act.

1. Promises to close Gitmo in a year, with no plan on how to actually do that, or worse yet, know what to do with the detainees (who in case you libs forgot, aren't boy scouts).

2. Signs a "stimulus" bill with TONS of pork, even though he promised the days of pork were over.

3. Promised the liberals single payer, even though tingle up their legs everytime he speaks liberals like Chris Matthews deny him ever saying it. Now their isn't even a public option, and the bill is more or less going to turn into every other thing the government tries to do, and just a reason to print more money for something that simply doesn't do anything, much less make our health care system better.

4. He promised no lobbyists in his administration, yet it's littered with them. And if they aren't lobbyists they're tax cheats.

5. He promised that unemployment wouldn't rise above 8 % IF and ONLY IF the stimulus was passed.

Posted By: gwpbrian (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 02:35 AM

Patriot Act was brought up, because someone on here John I guess his name is claimed that no rights were lost with the patriot act and that is just not true, if you even look objectively. Fuck the terrorists, im talking about what the government can now legally do to average everyday citizens if they wanted to. Gun rights seem to be a big issue for republicans, but this isn't? Go figure.

See the above post about Bush and his approval ratings...if I remember the majority of the country with the exception of some left wing nutjobs, put stuff aside after the Gore/Bush thing and generally supported the president and for Bush's first 2-3 years he had one of the highest job approval ratings of all time.

So everyone can spare me how allof the left and dems were all against Bush because that is simply not true.


Posted By: Jokers...all of ya (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 10:37 AM

 
 
Joker,

Your the one who brought up the patriot act in the first place

"BTW didn't see any of you flag huggers and Glen Beck lovers complain when they passed the Patriot Act and basically whipped there ass with your rights? But Obama is the bad guy...um Ok then...priorities."

Posted By: Jokers...all of ya (Guest) on December 31, 2009 at 06:05 PM


Now everyone brings up the hypocracy of the mighty Obama supporting it and your lashing out. Good luck with that.


Posted By: John (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 11:51 AM

 
 
8) If it werent for progressives, women wouldnt be able to vote, blacks would be slaving on plantations, and only rich white protestants would own any land. It'd be your dream come true!

Sorry about screwing that up for you.

Posted By: Guest#6777 (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 02:14 AM

Guest, you are so right, we will just ignore Robert KKK Bryd and Al gores daddy voting against the civil rights legistlation. Lets just keep it between me and you that a higher percentage of republicans voted for civil rights than the dems. Besides, all of those southern democrats really don't count when it does not fit our purpose of re-writing history.

As for god like references, all of my friends do...On my favorite network MSNBC, Evan Thomas from newsweek and special tingling Chris Mathews..."Well, we were the good guys in 1984, it felt that way. It hasn't felt that way in recent years. So Obama’s had, really, a different task We're seen too often as the bad guys. And he – he has a very different job from – Reagan was all about America, and you talked about it. Obama is ‘we are above that now.’ We're not just parochial, we're not just chauvinistic, we're not just provincial. We stand for something – I mean in a way Obama’s standing above the country, above – above the world, he’s sort of God. He’s-"

MATTHEWS:" Yeah."

It so progressive how these two break down the god like status of the messiah. I love it.

We will keep leaving the muslims alone becuase we are scared and their only is a BILLION of them. Keep hacking on christianity, Bill Maher will love us!!!!!!!

I have to watch CHE! now, hope and change.


Posted By: Berkley Boy (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 12:05 PM

 
 
"Now everyone brings up the hypocracy of the mighty Obama supporting it and your lashing out. Good luck with that.

Posted By: John (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 11:51 AM


Funny how you still never answered my question but changed the subject about how Obama supported it...But ok...guess you have nothing else to grasp onto but bashing Obama. This idea that it was like this when Bush took office is NOT true...with the exception of some democrat nutjobs.

I see you ignored everything else i've said but that one line and have offered no response to anything else. That;s ok though didn't expect much

I want this country fixed and the only guy in the white house right now with a chance to fix shit is Obama, so yeah I want it to work out and him do a fine job..WHY WOULDN'T I WANT THAT?? If he sucks in 4 years I vote for someone else..but until then why would i want him to blow chunks and make things worse and why would I base my decion on the guy after 1 year of a 4 year job?


Posted By: Jokers...all of ya (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 12:14 PM

 
 
I'd like to take a moment to call out the liars at 411mania and their conservative supporters who claim that guys like Enrique don't moderate their comments. They do, and they're not even subtle about it.

In the past, I'd be lucky to get a comment under GaryML to go up, mainly because I don't follow the conservative beliefs of most of the 411 political commentators. So on the rare times I saw something blatantly inaccurate in a column, I'd post as correction. Usually the first comment would go up, but if I tried to respond to someone saying I was just a liberal Obamaton, it wouldn't go up.

This thread is a perfect example. I agreed with xtopnotchx that liberal comments have a tough time getting posted, and followed up with a criticism of Enrique. That went up. But when people started challenging my assertion, I couldn't get a single response as correction to post.

So instead I posted a glowing conservative comment as ipman411 (not a reference to the Japanese legend, but rather Internet Protocol, to see if they banned it due to the ip address). It went up. I followed that up with glowing praise of Enrique as Enrique's Biggest Fan - of course that went up. In between I posted as correction trying to address someone who blasted me - it didn't go up.

I have no idea if this comment will go up but I'm hoping that someone who isn't a conservative columnist reads this and realizes that most times these comments section are heavily biased in favor of conservatives and a large number of liberal or progressive comments get "lost." I don't think it's a conspiracy - I think that the conservatives who work at 411mania don't like being corrected and it's easier to ignore a comment than have to deal with the substance. It's pathetic, but it's the same reason our "liberal" media is dominated by conservatives. Whine and complain that the liberals run everything, knowing full well they don't.

I think 411mania has a lot to offer. And I'd be happy to debate guys like Enrique or Grant on their conservative beliefs. But as long as this site continues to present a conservative bias and drowns out liberal voices, what's the point?

It's just a shame that a guy like Enrique can say Obama is a liar, when he knows full well that his own lies can stand because anyone trying to correct him in the comments section will simply be ignored. But conservatives have always been good at controlling the message.


Posted By: GaryML sucks (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 01:25 PM

 
 
"BTW didn't see any of you flag huggers and Glen Beck lovers complain when they passed the Patriot Act and basically whipped there ass with your rights? But Obama is the bad guy...um Ok then...priorities."

Posted By: Jokers...all of ya (Guest) on December 31, 2009 at 06:05 PM


Now everyone brings up the hypocracy of the mighty Obama supporting it and your lashing out. Good luck with that.

Posted By: John (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 11:51 AM

And perhaps you'd like to acknowledge the hypocrisy of folks who had NO problem with the Patriot Act when Bush was in office are now scared to death Obama's communist government stealing their rights?

If its good for the goose..


Posted By: Guest#2810 (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 01:51 PM

 
 
All you retarded republicans crack me up.

Half of you that bitch whine and complain are Bush lovers, the other half seem to be smokers.

Every leader you people vote in seem to fuck up so stop complaining. What a sad bunch of people you are.

United States of Ignorate and Gulable People.


Posted By: wutthecrapman (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 01:58 PM

 
 
8) If it werent for progressives, women wouldnt be able to vote, blacks would be slaving on plantations, and only rich white protestants would own any land. It'd be your dream come true!

Sorry about screwing that up for you.

Posted By: Guest#6777 (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 02:14 AM

Guest, you are so right, we will just ignore Robert KKK Bryd and Al gores daddy voting against the civil rights legistlation. Lets just keep it between me and you that a higher percentage of republicans voted for civil rights than the dems. Besides, all of those southern democrats really don't count when it does not fit our purpose of re-writing history.

Posted By: Berkley Boy (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 12:05 PM

No one is rewriting history. Your points, while valid, do not effect my argument.

1) Pointing out the examples of Byrd and Gore only demonstrates that these men lacked a progressive attitude in regard to social political issues. Just because one is a democrat does NOT mean they are a progressive. We have these things called "electoral realignments".



2) "Voting percentages" are irrelevant, because fortunately, no national referendum was held on the matter. Kennedy signed a bill, it became law. I dont doubt that if it WERE put to a vote, it would have failed.

3) As for Southern Democrats, a vast majority of them converted to the Republican party in 1968 thanks to Nixon's "Southern Strategy", which played on fears about race and encroachment by the federal government.

This is NOT to say that all Southerns opposed civil rights, LBJ signed the voting rights act. Then, he noted, rather accurately, that the Republican party would rule the South for decades to come.

Why? Because the South was/is filled with conservative voters who, regardless of party affiliation, were OPPOSED to Civil Rights.

4) We can debate the definition of conservatism, but 'tradition' is at the heart of the ideology. Traditions, enforced with religion, which advocated owning slaves and a woman being silent.

HOW exactly do you believe that supporting tradition and the status quo comports with the extension of individual liberties, when history goes against you?


Posted By: Guest#1501 (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 02:27 PM

 
 
Alot of people i know only voted for him because he s black.

Posted By: ???? (Guest) on December 31, 2009 at 10:55 PM

How many voted against him because he's black?

Posted By: Guest#1770 (Guest) on January 01, 2010 at 06:05 PM
--------------------------------------

Not enough???


Posted By: Jim (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 02:56 PM

 
 
President Barack Obama finally took responsibility for the economic disaster he created today.
MSNBC reported, via Free Republic:

“It’s a job I gladly accept,” he said to applause. “I love these folks who helped get us in this mess. And then suddenly say, ‘Oh, this is Obama’s economy.’ That’s fine. Give it to me. My job is to solve problems — not to stand on the sidelines and carp and gripe. So I welcome the job. I want the responsibility.”

For the record… No one forced Barack Obama to borrow and spend a trillion dollars on a disastrous non-Stimulus Bill.


The Libs can't blame Bush anymore. The HNIC has spoken.


Posted By: Jim (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 02:57 PM

 
 
BTW didn't see any of you flag huggers and Glen Beck lovers complain when they passed the Patriot Act and basically whipped there ass with your rights? But Obama is the bad guy...um Ok then...priorities."

Posted By: Jokers...all of ya (Guest) on December 31, 2009 at 06:05 PM


Now everyone brings up the hypocracy of the mighty Obama supporting it and your lashing out. Good luck with that.

Posted By: John (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 11:51 AM

And perhaps you'd like to acknowledge the hypocrisy of folks who had NO problem with the Patriot Act when Bush was in office are now scared to death Obama's communist government stealing their rights?

If its good for the goose..

Posted By: Guest#2810 (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 01:51 PM


Hey guest, you are a idiot. Quit copying half the posts without context. Joker brought up the patriot act out of thin air, while on some lame rant about Bush, 8 years of lies, Obama is great,bah,bah,bah. I, along with several others, pointed out that Jokers boy voted for the re-authorization of it.

If you think bashing Bush is going to win you elections in 2010, your in for a rough ride.


Posted By: John (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 05:58 PM

 
 
xtopnotchx, the same thing happens to my posts. Say anything they don't like and suddenly the conservative love of the Constitution and free speech flies out the window.


Posted By: correction (Guest) on December 30, 2009 at 11:20 PM

Possibly the funniest thing ive ever read on the comments section. Go smoke a joint and play acoustic jam music and talk about taking down the corporations. 411 doesnt give a shit about what you say in your comments and i hardly think that your post not going up right away is the beginning of a nazi regime.


Posted By: Guest#6148 (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 06:15 PM

 
 
To GaryLMsucks

I've posted several rebuttals to Zimmer's articles sighting sources that proved him wrong. I don't blame anybody but the lousy moderation this sight has. Sometimes my responses will not show up even when I respond to one of Enriques articles. So quit being a little bitch and suck it up.


Posted By: BKS (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 06:37 PM

 
 
Alot of people i know only voted for him because he s black.

Posted By: ???? (Guest) on December 31, 2009 at 10:55 PM

How many voted against him because he's black?

Posted By: Guest#1770 (Guest) on January 01, 2010 at 06:05 PM
--------------------------------------

Not enough???

Posted By: Jim (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 02:56 PM

LOL!


Posted By: Guest#9895 (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 06:56 PM

 
 
Hey guest, you are a idiot. Quit copying half the posts without context. Joker brought up the patriot act out of thin air, while on some lame rant about Bush, 8 years of lies, Obama is great,bah,bah,bah. I, along with several others, pointed out that Jokers boy voted for the re-authorization of it.

If you think bashing Bush is going to win you elections in 2010, your in for a rough ride.

Posted By: John (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 05:58 PM

Yes, and then Joker and myself pointed out the hypocrisy involved when conservatives express fear of Obama coming to take away their freedom, while holding their tougnes as their liberties were eroded via the patriot act.

And no, I dont think that bashing Bush is going to win me elections? You know why? I'm not running for office, and no libertarian candidate will get elected.. they dont fit in the money making machine that is American politics.


Posted By: Guest#8324 (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 07:02 PM

 
 
Yes, and then Joker and myself pointed out the hypocrisy involved when conservatives express fear of Obama coming to take away their freedom, while holding their tougnes as their liberties were eroded via the patriot act.

And no, I dont think that bashing Bush is going to win me elections? You know why? I'm not running for office, and no libertarian candidate will get elected.. they dont fit in the money making machine that is American politics.

Posted By: Guest#8324 (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 07:02 PM

I NEVER said anything about Obama taking away my freedoms. Get your facts straight before calling me out.

Tougnes?????? Nice


Posted By: John (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 07:39 PM

 
 
I like Obama, especially when he wears mom jeans and writes glowing books about himself.

Posted By: Guest#6630 (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 08:15 PM

 
 
Obama gave himself a B+ grade. So the rest of this is a waste of time, he has spoken.

Posted By: Guest#6546 (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 08:17 PM

 
 
If the best you have is a lie about a cigarette you, kind sir, are an idiot. He said income taxes, payroll taxes, capital gains taxes. Were any of these affected or are you just a mad addict whose fix now costs more?

Posted By: TomNationwide (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 08:23 PM

 
 
Liberals are desparate. Gitmo isn't closed yet, Stimulus is a failure, Cap and trade and the health care bill are unpopular in polling.

Whats left? BUSH.


Posted By: Guest#2346 (Guest)  on January 03, 2010 at 10:04 PM

 
 
Don't like the tax? Don't smoke. Simple.

Posted By: Jed (Guest) on December 30, 2009 at 09:28 PM

Spoken like a true non-smoker.


Posted By: Guest#8852 (Guest)  on January 04, 2010 at 12:26 AM

 
 
Yes, and then Joker and myself pointed out the hypocrisy involved when conservatives express fear of Obama coming to take away their freedom, while holding their tougnes as their liberties were eroded via the patriot act.

And no, I dont think that bashing Bush is going to win me elections? You know why? I'm not running for office, and no libertarian candidate will get elected.. they dont fit in the money making machine that is American politics.

Posted By: Guest#8324 (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 07:02 PM

I NEVER said anything about Obama taking away my freedoms. Get your facts straight before calling me out.

Tougnes?????? Nice

Posted By: John (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 07:39 PM

I never stated that you said anything about Obama coming to take away your freedoms, though I did cast too wide of a net by simply stating "conservatives".

Please accept my retraction and rephrasing. SOME people who identify themselves as conservative with whom I have spoken, as well as some I have witnessed on the television, have expressed a seemingly genuine fear that the current administration is going to threaten their freedoms. No doubt this paranoia has been stoked by those members of the conservative movement who have made reference to "death panels", "indoctrination", and "re-education camps".

You may view such sentiments being expressed yourself at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/23/palin-supporters-struggle_n_3
67800.html

Now, it seems it would have occured to people that if you grant additional power to the office of the President, as was done via the Patriot Act, that sooner or later someone with political viewpoints different from your own is going to occupy that office and seize those powers.

Do I approve of the Patriot Act? Hard to say one way or the other, like most folks, I havent read it. However, when gun sales increase in the wake of fear of a government takeover, I find it SOMEWHAT hypocritical that these fears werent raised over the previous eight years.

Perhaps, one COULD argue that Obama has somehow exhibited traits which would justify logical fear of a "big brother" scenario. However, I've yet to see a cogent one put forth. Rather, the unfortunate politics of fear-mongering, mastered by politicians the world round, wins the day.

If nothing else, at least the political conversation on 411 is more civil and thought provoking than most other sites I've run across.


Posted By: Guest#0160 (Guest)  on January 04, 2010 at 02:28 AM

 
 
After reading all of this, you know what cracks me up most? Two things:

1. Conservatives suddenly want "evidence," "proof," "citations," "quotes from sources...." When liberals criticized Bush, the standard conservative "defense" was:

A. This is America, love it or leave it.

B. Why do you hate this country? Why do you want the troops to die?

C. It's just Bush Derangement Syndrome.

2. Liberals ACTUALLY trying to offer cited, logical defenses. What the hell is wrong with you people? Just give conservatives the same pile of shit defense they ever offered for Bush.

Give them the trifecta of stupidity. Problem solved.


Posted By: Crow21 (Guest)  on January 04, 2010 at 03:03 AM

 
 
Top five REAL Obama lies of 2009

5) You can keep your health care if you want to - I don't want to take away your choice.

Obama has said on numerous occasions, he wants a one-payer system. This REQUIRES that he take away your choice.

4) I will have the most open, honest presidency ever.

When president obama meets with ONLY democrats behind closed doors, about anything - he is not having open or honest talk or debate.

3) I will not raise taxes on the middle class

This is a lie for everything that has been noted, but it's also a lie that most politicians use. The overarching lie is that if he does not sign something into law, and tax breaks are repealed, then I have not raised taxes. But not doing something and allowing things to happen IS obama doing something. And let's not mix semantics here - just because he doesn't raise taxes DIRECTLY on the middle class, if he raises taxes on an industry that services the middle class, it turns into an indirect tax on the middle class. Businesses have to make a profit to stay in business - and to think that a business wouldn't pass along the expense of something like a tax on the amount of energy they use, is purely naive. Moreover, Obama may not raise taxes DIRECTLY on the middle class, but let me ask you what does inflation do? By introducing more money into our economy, it devalues the money that everyone has. And why is that money introduced into our ecconomy? So that government can use more of it. THAT'S A TAX ON EVERYONE, PEOPLE - YOU LOSE THE VALUE AND BUYING POWER OF YOUR MOENY, SO GOVERNMENT CAN HAVE IT. TAX TAX TAX!

2) Big businesses taking risky moves are what destroys our ecconomy.

This one takes a little understanding to see. Obama has blamed the ecconomic downturn on banks taking risky investments to make money. He has blamed the high prices of health insurance on the health insurance companies. Here's the reality - governemnt CAUSED the bank problems by regulating the system to force banks to make risky loans. And the high prices of insurance are due to governemnt interference in the insurance industry (government already controls 60 percent of the health community)

1) My economic polices will result in a stronger economy. (subsection of this lie: I will create millions of new jobs in the private sector...higher taxes are good for our economy...deficits are good for our economy...spending fiat dollars are good for our economy)

Historically, running a deficit laiden economy leads to ruin. Don't believe me? Ask any family or business what happens if they operate the same way. Foreclosure or going out of business. You can not spend you way out of this crisis - just like in family/business, you must PRODUCE your way out of it.


Posted By: Stephen (Guest)  on January 04, 2010 at 09:48 AM

 
 
Stephen might be the most ill-informed person I've seen in these comments. Sure he thinks he's smart, but wow. Quick, get him a column!

Posted By: GaryML (Guest)  on January 04, 2010 at 01:59 PM

 
 
You forgot how during his campaign he said he would pull the troops out of Afghanistan ASAP. Then said he would draw up a plan to withdraw in 16 months. Then says they'll be out by 2017 when Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai, who was put in power by the US Government, said the troops would be out by 2024. All the while Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, in testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee on December 2nd, said the troops will probably still be in Afghanistan in 40 or even 50 years. Obama is a fraud and people should stop acting as if he shits ice cream.

Posted By: D (Guest)  on January 04, 2010 at 03:57 PM

 
 
I never stated that you said anything about Obama coming to take away your freedoms, though I did cast too wide of a net by simply stating "conservatives".

Please accept my retraction and rephrasing. SOME people who identify themselves as conservative with whom I have spoken, as well as some I have witnessed on the television, have expressed a seemingly genuine fear that the current administration is going to threaten their freedoms. No doubt this paranoia has been stoked by those members of the conservative movement who have made reference to "death panels", "indoctrination", and "re-education camps".

Posted By: Guest#0160 (Guest) on January 04, 2010 at 02:28 AM

No need to retract anything, I understand what your saying about some nutcases in the right wing and the whole birther movement. Thanks for the thoughts though and have a happy new year.


Posted By: John (Guest)  on January 04, 2010 at 08:07 PM

 
 
I think you can take what you want from a lot of these "quotes". The one at number one is the most funny and if this is your biggest gripe then you can't be doing too bad.
Perhaps jobs were created but didn't pay, some people just wont do what they have to, to provide for themselves or their family and would just rather live off the government.
Obama inherated this shit from the previous president two wars and a crap economy.


Posted By: Captain_America (Guest)  on January 06, 2010 at 01:14 PM

 
 
Liberals are desparate. Gitmo isn't closed yet, Stimulus is a failure, Cap and trade and the health care bill are unpopular in polling.

Whats left? BUSH.

Posted By: Guest#2346 (Guest) on January 03, 2010 at 10:04 PM

Why are people so....sooooo.....stupid!

Gitmo isn't closed because of fear-mongering politicians saying we can't have "terrorists in prisons in our backyard". Pardon me, where is Richard Reid locked up? Colorado? Yeah, shut your mouth

Stimulus is apparently a failure even though jobs are coming back and spending confidence has gone up, as well as stocks

Cap/Trade & Health Care unpopular in the polls? Hmmm are getting polls from Fox? Or CNN? Or NBC? You can't trust polls PERIOD! They are polling maybe 200 people that they choose and then make that for the basis of America...take a statistics course, it's all bullshit

And yes, blame BUSH! Should we blame Bush that Republicans are so bitchy that they aren't in control that they slander our President after a FAILED terrorist attack? No...but ya know what we can STILL blame him for? WAR, FAILED HOUSING MARKET, LOSS OF JOBS, POOR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM, ANOTHER WAR....you know why we can still blame for all this?? Because we are STILL feeling the effects of all of this turmoil! You think that if McCain had won that it would all be better now?? Wake up America! Your world around you won't do an instant 180 and served up hot and fast like fucking McDonalds...it takes time and progress. And of course we don't get anywhere when people REFUSE to go anywhere....grow the fuck up!!


Posted By: Erik... (Guest)  on January 06, 2010 at 06:14 PM

 
STAY CURRENT




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