The Roundtable 4.3.04
Posted by Ben Morse on 04.03.2004
CrossGen woes, Image rehauls and Marvel moves.
NOTE: The individual opinions of each Roundtable contributor is their own, and is not representative of anybody but that contributor. Former staff member Andy Smith sues CrossGen for late payments
It's always kind of sad to see a comics publisher (not one of the Big Two) falling on financial troubles... much worse when it's one that contributed such a unique voice to the field, the way CrossGen did.
What's worse, things like this are only going to hasten CrossGen's decline...which I'm sure isn't what Smith really wants, but he probably doesn't see that he has a choice. It's easy for a fan to write off a cancelled book or a swapped art assignment, but for a creator it's not that simple; they depend on this stuff to keep food on the table. No matter how this turns out, things don't look good for dear old CrossGen.
Chris Delloiacono (411 reviewer, co-writer of Near Mint Memories, Robert Kirkman/Erik Larsen shill): It's been sad to watch the problems CrossGen has faced over the past year. They instituted a number of great marketing programs since the company launched. The company’s attitude has almost always been positive and they've published some outstanding series. I don't know what's true with regard to payment, but CrossGen should be paying those that worked for them. There's no excuse to leave these men and women in a lurch. I really hope the accusations are not true.
Mike “Skitch” Maillaro (411 reviewer and one hell of a nice guy): As much as I love CrossGen, and the innovative talent and ideas that have come out of the company, I am pretty dismayed about all the stuff that has gone on over the last several months. First, they didn't pay several freelancers, then they cancel several of my favorite titles. In the process, they end up laying off a lot of creators, and at the same time, giving pay cuts to several others. I know they are a small business and it is hard to get ahead in this industry, but just about a year ago they were still telling us that things were going smoothly. They were growing rapidly, and the sky seemed the limit. CrossGen and its fans were blissful in the belief that they would take down the big two someday. Somehow it all seemed to come to a horrifying crash.
I don't know all the details of the lawsuit, but I hope Andy Smith gets everything he is owed, even if it is at the expense of CrossGen. It is always disturbing to me when a company ends up hurting its employees, while the management gets pay raises. If this is true, Mark Alessi should be ashamed of himself. Some of the early stuff in this lawsuit, like Alessi trying to get it thrown out because of a paperwork-filing loophole is already starting to disgust me.
I hate to say this, but I would be very shocked if CrossGen was still around in a year. Things don't look good.
Dave Graham (411 reviewer): Not knowing all the ins and outs of the financial situation at CrossGen, it's difficult to comment on this. But given that the non-payment of fees/wages has gone this far, I can't see CG surviving much longer. It's a real shame that a creator has to go this far simply to get the money he deserves from a comic, but it's even more of a shame when a company that produces quality work like CG gets into serious financial strife. But when it comes down to it, if you can't pay the creators, you can't produce the comics. Andy Smith is doing the right thing for himself, and I can't fail to support him in that. CrossGen cancels Sojourn, writer Ian Edginton quits on the spot
(NOTE: This was only a rumor when our panelists began commenting on it, it was confirmed later in the week)
Mike Maillaro: This story is just depressing. Why the hell would CrossGen cancel their best selling series? I was talking to Daron about this before, and it seems like CG is attempting to wipe out every last remains of the “Sigilverse”. Even titles that are only tangentially connected like Way of the Rat, Route 666, Brath and Sojourn are coming to an end. And where does that leave us, the long-time CrossGen fans?
I sincerely doubt we will be seeing a Negation re-launch after the war, or anything else connected to the old CrossGen universe. My only hope is that El Cazador and Abadazad, two of my current favorite titles, manage to stay around a while longer.
Chris Delloiacono: What's going on? You don't just cancel your best selling book for no reason! This title doubles the sales of most every other book that CrossGen puts out, and sells pretty well in trades. It doesn't give me much hope for the other CG books that I read lasting much longer.
As for Edginton quitting on the spot--can you blame him? First, Scion gets dumped just after he takes over, now a book that hasn't lost anything sales wise since Ron Marz departed gets the axe too. Who's going to wrap up the series? Will the series even get a respectable wrap-up?
Maillaro: It doesn't look like it, Chris. It seems that with Ian leaving, they plan on ending the series even earlier. So I doubt they will be wrapping up anything.
The reason they seem to be ending Sojourn is because they are completely wiping all the Sigilverse stuff out. And they wanted Greg Land on the new series that's coming out, American Power. Whatever the explanation, it makes no sense at all. That would be like Marvel deciding to cancel all the X-books.
Besides that, they are also ending Route 666, only to re-launch it a month later. Maybe Bendis could write it, it worked for Powers, Alias and Avengers.
Kyle Litke (411 reviewer): Here's the problem with the Sojourn story: it's not a story, it's a rumor.
It's pretty likely at this point that Ian Edginton will be leaving the company. But as for the rest, it's only a rumor. Why cancel Sojourn? It's much more likely that they're canceling it because Ian Edginton is leaving, not vice versa. With Land likely working on a different book, the sales on Sojourn would drop a huge amount.
Besides, Sojourn has always seemed like something that should have been a limited series, not permanently ongoing. Arwyn can only avoid getting the 5 arrow pieces for so long.
Maillaro: You're right, Kyle. It is only a rumor, but more often than not, Rich's green light stories are pretty accurate. And he's been pretty d.o.b. accurate when it's come to CrossGen during the last few months. Even the fact that American Power ended up getting delayed because Greg Land was behind on the art seems to point in the direction that something really odd is going on here. And, if Ian was leaving, why couldn't another writer take over the series? It worked when Marz left Sojourn, so why not now? Especially since Ian's work hasn't quite been as good.
I love CrossGen, but that doesn't mean I can't accept the fact that they are having a lot of problems lately, and more often than not, doing things that don't seem to make sense to the fans. It is probably not a coincidence that every single Sigil related title will be gone by the end of Negation: War.
Litke: Ah, but here's the problem with Lying in the Gutters. What Rich tends to do is take one story that he's pretty much positive is true (in this case, Ian Edginton leaves CrossGen, it's been reported plenty of other places and he claims he'll be interviewing him about it), and then inserts a bunch of things that are just rumors or speculation, then gives the entire thing a green light. So Ian Edginton leaving the company may be getting a green light, but it doesn't necessarily mean he's completely right about everything.
It's a very good guess Sojourn will be ending, with Land apparently moving to a new title, and Ian likely leaving. And it's possible Rich knows this because Ian told him himself, in which case it's probably accurate. Besides that, though, I don't think it's any more than a rumor. Especially the part about Greg Land being angry with the company over his new book...Rich has claimed things like that before about different company members, and nearly every time they've told me personally that it's either not true or blown out of proportion.
“Starman” Matt Morrison (writer of Looking To The Stars): Considering the source, I'm inclined to dismiss this as pure rumor. The column in question professes to being a gossip column.
I'm more concerned about the project Land is being moved to. American Power sounds borderline fascist in concept and not too far away from the yellow-skinned "Die Amelican Pig Dog!" portrayal of the Japanese in various war comics in the past. I can only hope that in their efforts to gain a little attention through controversy, that CrossGen doesn't wipe itself out in an battle with all those who are likely to be offended by Chuck "subtle as a brick" Dixon's attempt to do a politically-motivated superhero book.
Kevin Rapp (411 reviewer, snappy dresser, snarky bastard): All these may be at this point are rumors, but, you must admit, they're extremely consistent with CrossGen's recent happenings.
Personally, I have a problem supporting CrossGen when they aren't paying their employees. We've already got one Rob Liefeld, folks, we don't need another. So, I've stopped buying their books (which is only helped by the fact that their TPB program is non-existent).
I sincerely hope this will work out for the best, but the pessimist in me can't see this ending any other way than in bankruptcy.
On Thursday, Newsarama posted an interview with Edginton on the situation.
Maillaro: This is by far the most telling interview with a CrossGen creator yet. As I said earlier in the week, Rich Johnson's stuff is usually pretty accurate, and Ian's comments really make me question whether CrossGen has staying power anymore. Why would creators want to work there if they end up in this kind of situation? I just hope when all comes to an end the CrossGen creators end up on their feet. There is too much talent there that would be wasted if other companies didn’t scoop them up. Dark Horse amps up promotion for Hellboy movie
Kevin Mahoney (Kevin Mahoney): Regarding the advent (theological and chronological puns, yea!) of the Hellboy movie and its tie ins... I think Dark Horse is doing a more than passable job. The quarter comic is always a good idea provided there is some good content (and there was). I think the Wizard/Dark Horse thing I reviewed was less exemplary. But then I look at the Marvel racks and Doc Ock is already everywhere. And he will be... for months. Compared to the re-release of the Hellboy TPBs with new intros by cool folks like director Guillermo del Toro, Marvel's hype machine is so much schlockier. Robert Kirkman and Michael Avon Oeming get set for respective Captain America and Thor runs
(NOTE: Kirkman interview taken from Newsarama, Avon Oeming interview taken from Silver Bullet)
Jim Lemoine: It's hard to get excited about a one-arc run by a writer that's "completely self-contained"... meaning that odds are good there won't be any real lasting effects on the character or the supporting cast. Sounds like the pre-revamp fill-in arcs that we see so often before Spider and X re-launches. Still, a lot of people are probably going to be excited about Captain America returning to his more super-heroic roots... and who knows what Oeming has planned for Thor? Both writers plan to bring in a lot of old-fashioned villains, it seems... which will warm the hearts of the old-fashioned fanboys while driving away the more Vertigo-ish crowd that enjoyed the more political Captain America and the religious epic that has been Jurgens' Thor. Good move, bad move? Time will tell.
Interesting how both writers mention Bendis as one of the driving forces behind them being assigned to these titles. How much influence does this guy have?
Chris Delloiacono: Robert Kirkman's writing two of my current favorite series in The Walking Dead and Invincible. The idea that he's going to get a brief crack at Captain America is fantastic news. Invincible is the finest superhero book on the shelves today, and Captain America desperately needs to go back to being a superhero book. With the word that Diamondback, Hydra, and the Red Skull are all involved in the storyline, I don't think we'll be seeing Cap battle a never-ending string of terrorists anymore! Hoorah! Robert Rodi talks Identity Disc at Newsarama
Mike Maillaro: While I am slightly annoyed at Marvel's blatant attempt to steal the thunder from DC's Identity Crisis, I must admit that the Marvel miniseries actually sounds more appealing to me. Identity Crisis just sounds like another "earth-shattering series" where nothing really major will change after all is said and done. Identity Disc doesn't seem to be aspiring to be much more than a fun little comic series featuring an Odd Sextuple of Marvel's baddest baddies.
Also, Robert Rodi wrote one hell of a funny comic with Crossovers, and I hope ID will be in the same vein. There is nothing I like better than having a great time when I am reading a comic. Erik Larsen announces new Image “big guns” team book to feature Spawn, Savage Dragon, Witchblade & Shadowhawk
Chris Delloiacono: Savage Dragon is one of my favorite titles, but I have absolutely no interest in reading this new concoction. The biggest leap I see is making Spawn somehow fit in with the group. At least Witchblade makes some sort of sense, but where's Shadowhawk been for the last half-decade or more? He was at a funeral in a recent issue of Invincible, but other than that I don't recall seeing him in a long time.
The one aspect of this series I do like is the shared-universe concept that Image has been lacking for a long time now. Recently, Robert Kirkman and Erik Larsen have made attempts in their respective works toward this end. So, I take this series as a positive step, at least in that facet.
This is obviously Image's answer to what Marvel is doing with Avengers, and it might make some amount of sense if the character weren't completely disparate entities. I don't see how the book can work tonally. I'll probably read the first issue because of novelty, and my love for Savage Dragon. But, it'd have to have some damn fine writing to keep me on board.
Mike Maillaro: That is just about the most bizarre comic team I have ever seen. I couldn't imagine what would bring this team together though. On the other hand, I have to admit that I would be tempted to give it a try. It seems like a lot of comic companies are trying to get readers back to the market with some shocking maneuvers lately. It's almost like they are trying to recapture the success of the early 90's. That could either be a very good thing, or a very bad thing.
Matt Morrison: I can only assume that this is being done in response to Marvel's new "Big Guns" Avengers. Thing is, bigger rarely equals better and I think that is especially true in this case. Besides, didn't they try this with Marvel Knights? Take the most popular characters, all of whom are loners, bad-boys or outright sociopaths, and force them on to a team together. I think this will work just as well as a team book with Daredevil, Punisher and Black Widow did: not at all.
Kevin Rapp: This is Larsen's first major move as the new publisher at Image, and it appears he's going for the "crossover solves everything!" approach. They appear to be following Marvel in the "let's try to confuse everyone into thinking it's 1992" publishing strategy. Didn't they get the memo? The '90's comics SUCKED. If this is an indication of what Larsen's longer term plans will look like, we can go ahead and assume we won't be seeing anything like Hawaiian Dick, Age of Bronze, or even Powers come out during his tenure. And that's a shame.
Maillaro: But, I think Marvel and Image might actually be doing the right thing in that regard. Since the comic companies were making so much money in the 90's, they were more willing to experiment with unusual stuff like Starman. These days, I wonder if Starman would have actually lasted 80 issues with its sales figures. It probably would have gone the way of Power Company, Deadman, Doom Patrol, and Suicide Squad.
That is why Brubaker has said that he worries about the future of Sleeper, which is easily one of the best comics on the shelf. It just doesn't sell enough. Unless companies are making a lot of money, they don't have the resources or interest to support more creative and less successful titles. The biggest exception to that, of course, is Vertigo.
So, to a certain extent, I understand why Marvel and Image are pulling out all the stops and trying to get people back to the industry, doing things that might annoy some of the normal comic readers. But, I think we all need to accept that there just ain't enough to support the industry. New blood and returning readers are going to be vital in making sure comics stay around a long time. Upcoming Usagi Yojimbo appearance announced for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon
Paul Sebert (writer of Marvel News & Views): Kind of surprised none of the other comic news sites have picked up on this, but here's something I found interesting written by Stan Sakai in the letters column of this week's Usagi Yojimbo:
Since we're on the subject, new would be a good time to announce that Usagi will guest star in a four-part story arc of the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series on Fox. "The Big Brawl" will air at the end of this season. Don't expect it to fit in with the Usagi comic's continuity, though. It will feature some wild aliens and wilder action. Our favorite bounty hunter Gen will also be in it. Also, be on the lookout for a new Usagi action figure from Playmate Toys. I was in Massachusetts in November, discussing future plans with Peter (Laird) and filming an interview for the eventual DVD release of the crossover. The highpoint of the trip, though, was riding Segways with Peter."
Can't say much other than that it sounds pretty damned cool to me.
Mike Maillaro: That sounds great! Usagi was my favorite figure from TMNT, and I always liked the character in that cartoon. I have never really read any thing else with him, but I will try to make sure I catch this cartoon now!
STAY CURRENT