411 Politics Fact or Fiction 09.03.10: Another Oil Rig Explodes, President Obama's Iraq War Speech and Jan Brewer VS Hillary Clinton
Posted by Mark Radulich on 09.03.2010
Were you impressed by President Obama's Iraq War speech? Is Arizona committing Human Rights violations? Why do offshore oil platforms keep blowing up? It's another comments only Fact or Fiction!
Mars Needs Women I mean, 411 Politics Fact or Fiction needs conservatives. I got liberals and independents ready to roll, a week from today as a matter of fact. What I don't have on my list of potential participants is conservative contenders. That's been part of the holdup with having a traditional Fact or Fiction. I'm trying to avoid situations where it's more than likely both participants will agree across the board. So, I know you are out there conservatives, I see you in the comment section every day. Here's my challenge to you:
Seriously, this whole concept is contingent on your participation but if more of you prefer to do this comments only style then that's OK too. To sum up, when I have enough participants for a good match-up then I'll run a traditional FoF. If not then comments only is the thing.
Alright, enough with the housecleaning yakity yak...
Disclaimer: The following Fact or Fiction statements are not necessarily my opinion but rather statements made (mostly) in the affirmative so you could clearly answer them: Fact or Fiction. I did my best to make this as even handed and neutral as possible. In addition, I provided video's for supplementary information in case some readers are not familiar with the topics at hand. LET'S DO IT!
1) President Obama's speech about ending the Iraq War was largely forgettable and another oratory disappointment.
2) The US State Departed has listed its legal challenge to Arizona's immigration enforcement measure on a list of ways the government is protecting human rights in a report to the United Nations High Commissioner on Human Rights. In response to this, Arizona Governor Jan Brewer wrote a letter to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, saying that, "Simply put, it is downright offensive that the State Department included the State of Arizona and S.B. 1070 in a report to the United Nations Council on Human Rights, whose members include such renowned human rights 'champions' as Cuba and Libya." You completely agree with Gov. Brewer.
3) It was recently announced that Sarah Palin will be the headliner at the annual Ronald Reagan dinner and GOP fundraiser for Iowa on Sept. 17. This has caused many in the media to speculate that Sarah Palin is gauging a possible run at the presidency in 2012. It would be a huge mistake for both Palin and the GOP for her to run in 2012 as she has no chance of winning.
4) North Korea vowed to strengthen military ties with China just days after Kim Jong-il finished a visit aimed at bolstering the bond with his isolated country's sole major supporter. In today's multi-polar world, this is actually a good thing.
5) An offshore oil and gas platform in the Gulf of Mexico owned by Mariner Energy Inc (ME.N) burst into flames on Thursday morning near Louisiana, close to the site of BP oil platform disaster from earlier this year. This new explosion is reason enough for the moratorium on offshore drilling not to be lifted.
6) USA Today reports one in six American are now enrolled in government anti-poverty/entitlement programs due to the housing and job crisis.
• 40 million Americans get food stamps today, nearly double the pre-recession number.
• 50 million are on Medicaid, the federal health-care system for the poor — a 17% jump since 2007. Obama's health care plan will add 16 million to the Medicaid rolls starting in 2014.
• 10 million are still receiving unemployment checks, while many millions more have either run out their jobless benefits or didn't qualify because they were day laborers or otherwise "self employed" before the recession.
• 4.4 million are on federal welfare, up 18% since the Great Recession began.
The enrollment for these programs will only increase as time goes as we become more and more of a socialist country.
That's for checking out the column this week. Next week is the return of the traditional Fact or Fiction starring our very own Robert Zimmer! See you then, have a safe weekend.
I would totally sign up for a fact or fiction, I'm a largely fiscal conservative and a largely social liberal though so it'd probably mess up the dynamic your going for. But honestly agreeing alot isn't bad either.
Now to my answers:
1. =FACT=
I didn't like his speech, I didn't like the war either. What I didn't like about his speech was how late it was after removal of troops. It was as if he was avoiding talking about it. For an administration that ran on the concept of Transparency in government that is not a good thing.
2. =FACT=
You don't have to agree with the Arizona bill/law to realize that human rights violations is not what it was about. Civil Rights? That's a debatable issue.
The true problem is the UN. Why is Cuba or Libya on a Human Rights Council? While the UN has long proven itself to be ineffectual it seems to be seeking the concept of "laughable." This is a constant problem where the UN allows nations that have worse track records than those are accusing, to sit in judgement of others.
3. =FACTION=
Sarah Palin won't necessarily get killed, and she's one of the best candidates the GOP still has for a Presidential run, unless they find a political unknown.
However I remember when Palin quit her Governor position, part of her reasoning was being in the spotlight was harming her family. Then speaking arragements and books and etc. She's proven herself to be a waffler.
And if she thinks the character assassination she suffered last time was bad, wait till she runs for president.
4. =FICTION=
Okay my roots are showing. I think it's always a bad thing when China gets more allies. Kim Jong-Il is a scary guy to me. He seems to love Western Culture, and wants to destroy it at the same time. Him getting any sort of additional clout worries me.
5. =FACTION=
The truth is what caused this second explosion? Off Shore Oil Drilling has had a good safety record over the years. Suddenly 2 explosions in under a year? That is worrisome, but why did it happen? Old Equipment giving in? Deregulation? What?
Until we have a straight answer from OEMM I can't give you a straight answer either.
6. =FICTION=
I'll speak as one of the 10 million currently on unemployment. And I even ran out of benefits for a while. Will enrollment increase? Yeah we are in a bad economic time. Does it make us more socialist? No. We should help our fellow man when they are down on their luck. Perhaps a better luck into fraud of those systems are in order though.
Actually, screw that. I'm done with Isms. They bore me. Instead lets realize that Capitalism is awesome, with flaws. Socialism is awesome, with flaws. Take the best from both and perhaps we get something that works.
Having one does not need to preclude the other.
Posted By: DeimosMasque (Guest) on September 03, 2010 at 03:44 PM
1) Fiction. It was missing something, but any speech that contains "We are getting a bunch of people is a good speech." It is also a hard speech to sell since we still have 50,000 soldiers. It could have been better, but after the Gov. Brewer debate, he looked like Churchill.
2. Fiction. Speaking of Brewer. Arizona's law has already been gutted by the courts and the appeal doesn't look good either. I would champion it to the world since it atleast shows we are taking care of own. And after Brewer's performance this week, I won't believe a word that comes out of her mouth.
3. Fiction. Palin's poll numbers are low, basement low. Even with the support of the Tea Party, she is still running third behing Newt and Romney with those folks. She is a media darling due to her costant screw-ups and the milf pornstar vibe. If the GOP runs her, they will lose and lose big time. They want Romeny or Patwnay not her.
4. Fiction. Those two being on the same team is not a good thing. Its bad enough that when Kim Jong finds out the sand of his life is running out, he is going to invande South Korea. We don't need the added gorilla in the room of China. To be honest, I am not sure why China is doing this then other then keeping track of North Korea or make sure when war comes they don't have to get involved.
5.Fact. I know people are going to scream about jobs, but this twice in one year. We need the Feds to go over those places with a fine tooth comb. I do not longer trust drilling in the ocean. Its finally time to get serious about alternative energy. I am sure they will remove it by the end of the year.
6. Fact. It has nothing to do with socialism and more to do with the economy. I do think people are taking advantage of the unemployment, but that is going to be on them since jobs don't like two years without a work history. While others stubbornly think they can get their 50K job back while passing up 20-30K jobs. If we drop these programs expect to see a number of after effects that will make recovery longer or impossible. Also, the hell with Captialism since that is what got us here in the first place. Socialism will not kill this country since we were a socialist state in some form on day one. Hell, we are not even that big of Captialists either. That is good, because a pure version of any system leads to problems. Its good to be flexable.
Posted By: YOU\\\\\\\'RE NEW GOD (Guest) on September 04, 2010 at 08:42 AM
Seriously three guys one hammer has ruined my life. :-(
Posted By: AG Awesome (Guest) on September 04, 2010 at 09:10 AM
1. Fiction
This is important because he is doing what he told us he would do, he left as carefully as Bush got us in their recklessly. It is not a "tear down this wall" speech but that speech was just posturing as well, just better done.
2. Fact
Dang people do stupid things in an election year.
3. Fiction
I like Fiscal conservatives but the Republican party has been hijacked by Fox news and people like Grant. To me those are the real terrorists to this country. They will vote for Palin because she is good looking and waves the Red flag. So it is like Football... which is the only thing most of these people understand. Cheer for your team and look at the ladies with Perdy teeth.
4. Fiction
I'm not fully disagreeing but the big talk in NK is that they are going to have a big government rally and Kim will be stepping down while placing his son in charge. The trip to china is introduce his son, to China in preparation for the accession.
5. FIction
those of us land lubbers may not fully appreciate all of the well paying jobs rigs cause in that area. Now I think that we need to really look at alternative sources but in the meantime we also need to find jobs, this is one of the few jobs the "greatest generation" has not managed to outsource...yet
6. Fiction
We are far from a socialist country, it is an overused word that most people do not understand. There are so many people on government support because we cannot control the rising cost of goods, 70% of the people are working in service industries, and we are actually making less then we were in the 70s. Education costs are out of control, the only jobs left are specialized engineering jobs who no one knows how to get unless they were a specialized engineer familiar with the field. This all topped by the fact that we cannot afford our health care system. It has gotten to the point where we want to destroy teacher and police pensions. When you are cutting your hands to save your face you are in trouble.
Posted By: Charles (Guest) on September 04, 2010 at 10:02 AM
1. Fiction
The speech certainly didn't set the world on fire, and won't be remembered as a classic. That said, the President said and conveyed exactly what he needed to at this point. Therefore, I cannot consider the speech a failure.
2. Fiction
I almost went fact here, as the human rights abuses of countries like the two she mentions definitely outweigh the new immigration rules in the grand scheme of things. That said, I chose Fiction due to the basic principle that one human right's violation is as wrong as any another. Saying that our idiocy isn't bad because someone else is worse is hardly a positive endorsement.
3. Fiction
I had to go fiction here, mostly because of the second part of the statement. Do I think that she is likely to win in 2012? No. Is it fair to say that she has "no chance" of winning? No. She energizes the conservative base, and if Bush can win two terms than sadly so could Palin. It would be a nightmare scenario, but it could somehow take place.
4. Fact
China is our largest creditor. Their economy would be greatly damaged by anything happening to us and causing our debts to go unpaid. The more influence China has over NK, the better. China aren't saints, but their government also isn't batshit crazy like Mr. Ronery is. We need all the help we can get with keeping that psycho in line.
5. Fact
Although with a caveat. The actual Deepwater Horizon rig blowing up and choking our seas with oil is enough reason on it's own for a permanent moratorium on that particular type of drilling. This shouldn't even be an issue any more. As a Gulf Coast state resident myself (FL), I am especially angry about what this has done to our beaches, sea life, and coast lines. Fuck big oil.
6. Fiction
A million times fiction. Although I personally I think we could stand to be more socialist. I'm so tired of the right using the dreaded Socialism as their all encompassing boogeyman. Capitalism has a lot of positives, but some of it's most glaring flaws could use some socialism. Whether people live or die of a disease should NEVER depend on their insurance status or bank account balance. EVER. That's basic human ethics and morals 101. Also, getting a quality education should not be something that you have to pay off for a third of your life. A fully publicly subsidized system could help with that too. I'm sure I'll get ripped for these views, but screw it, I won't apologize for what I think.
Posted By: MikeSD (Guest) on September 04, 2010 at 02:18 PM
1) Fact - The war is not over. Obama simply rebranded it so it seems like he kept his pledge about ending it in 18 months. Rebranding to create the illusion of being above board is just one of the many strategeries left behind in his predecessor's playbook, aka Obama's Presidential Bible.
2) Fact - I was set to say Fiction here, but DeimosMasque makes an excellent point. Arizona is blatantly violating civil rights, not human rights.
3) Fiction - It wouldn't be a mistake at all for Palin to do everything possible to keep herself in the public eye, and the MSM will drool and beg her for more no matter how disastrous it gets. Remember the Democratic primary debate in '08 when Tim Russert asked Dennis Kucinich if he believed in UFO's? They'll never sandbag Palin like that. As long as she's polarizing and hot, she will be their God.
4) Fiction - Nothing favorable to North Korea is a good thing for the rest of the world.
5) Fiction - One accident is not reason enough to keep the moratorium going. It's the consistent record of major disasters over decades brought about in no small part from a lack of interest in spending on modern safety and cleanup measures that is the reason.
6) Fact - There are numerous Socialist countries with strong economies. The idea that the non-rich should have no safety net because the threat of starving to death will somehow make five candidates squeeze into one job opening is just stupid. Our economy has been dismantled over the last 30+ years and sold off piece by piece. Ironically, jobs have been our biggest export. Now those who implemented that philosophy and follow it like a religion are demonizing doing anything else. They are the same ones who said prescription drugs couldn't be imported from Canada because they might not be safe. The few do what works for them and use fear to get the masses to go along. As a total collapse draws closer, we will eventually do what most of the world figured out years ago: work together for our mutual benefit. But this is America, so it will have to get post-apocalypse bad before anything changes.
Posted By: Jason Douglas (Registered) on September 04, 2010 at 02:32 PM
4) Fiction: I actually work with the coast guard in an intelligence center. There was a fire on the rig yes, but nothing burst into flames with a huge explosion. The media likes to sentationalize, thats why we don't have national news reports on every single fender bender that happens everyday.
Posted By: Guest#7951 (Guest) on September 06, 2010 at 12:29 PM
As a mexican I am ok w the arizona law. When anyone gets stopped by the cops we all have to produce an I'd. We aren't all bangers or illegals but our communities have been beaten down by the gangs n violence they bring. They can ask me for my I'd 1000 times if that means its getting drugs n gangbangers off the street. Viva 1070
Posted By: x o816 (Guest) on September 06, 2010 at 03:49 PM
"As a mexican I am ok w the arizona law. When anyone gets stopped by the cops we all have to produce an I'd. We aren't all bangers or illegals but our communities have been beaten down by the gangs n violence they bring. They can ask me for my I'd 1000 times if that means its getting drugs n gangbangers off the street. Viva 1070
Posted By: x o816 (Guest) on September 06, 2010 at 03:49 PM"
Amen. In Florida you have to be able to show your ID to any cop that asks our you are considered a vagrant. How is that Human or Civil Rights abuse?
You show your ID, they move on, the end.
Posted By: DeimosMasque (Guest) on September 06, 2010 at 04:00 PM
arizona doesnt need a law,the border doesnt need a wall.Land mines are cheaper and much more effective
Posted By: donnadahmer (Guest) on September 06, 2010 at 10:20 PM
Charles,
I'm not a terrorist- i don't hijack planes and ram them into buildings full of civilians.
I expect an apology.
And considering that I actually fought terrorists for nearly a decade and still work within the circle I would like some more respect - unless your political views are so jaded that you call your own veterans "terrorists"- fucking hypocrite.
And I would vote for Palin all day- not because she is "attractive" but because she has character...something you master Obama lacks completely.
You talk about supporting fiscal conservativism, which is bullshit, because you are probably the first person to push an old lady out of the way for welfare benefits...or at least right behind GaryML who would declare social warfare against people living in his own town if it means getting what they own without earning it...
But that's the real American dream for Liberals...to revolt against rich people at the behest of other rich people so they can maybe get some scraps for free...
That's why they say the things they do: like Jason Douglas who says "there are plenty of socialist countries with strong economies"...
But the most powerful economy in the world is Americas free market- which is not socialist- but Jason can't say that because he is owned by unions. I bet he is a teacher or at least a city worker that spouts thus nonsense off to unassuming citizens...
But it's people like me that are called terrorists- even when I have not posted on this site in days...
Just like when liberals say our soldiers are murders, "rich people" are not sharing their wealth, that everyone deserves free healthcare, illegals deserve to not pay taxes- but should be allowed to vote...
Yeah it's people like me who hijacked our country because I believe that leaders should be held accountable for actions and character- or lack thereof. That I give our military the benefit of the doubt because they have earned it...
Maybe if we believe the polls the MAJORITY of Americans would agree with me and in the next few months we will speak out and send you traitor liberal punks back to the depths for twenty years- and only two years since GaryML's father Keith Olbermann declared the Republican party dead.
Oh and I'm basically the complete opposite of whatever Zimmer posts for the next Fact or Fiction- so don't except me to post, unless of course Charles, or anyone else, decides to talk shit that they can't back up...
Posted By: Grant Muioc (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 01:33 AM
And considering that I actually fought terrorists for nearly a decade and still work within the circle I would like some more respect - unless your political views are so jaded that you call your own veterans "terrorists"- fucking hypocrite.
Posted By: Grant Muioc (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 01:33 AM
Speaking of Hypocrite aren't you the guy who said he quit the military because he didn't want to follow orders from Obama. That was your ENTIRE reason for quitting.
And we are suppose to respect someone who doesn't even respect the highest office in the land....give me a break buddy, your a joke.
BTW Mr. Economist Grant, how can we have the best economy in the world when your national debt is so much?? We might have been able to claim that under Clinton, but now we are OWNED by China....but your here waiving the pom poms talking about what a great economy we have. Maybe before Bush got in we had one - but not so much anymore.
And you know nothing about liberals, probably are a fringe element of you own party, and have the dumbest view of what it takes to be president I have every scene. Someone who has character? Really? I won't feed the troll on that one...its to obvious for anyone with half a brain.
Oh and BTW aren't you the same guy who said "good for NY" when discussing 9-11 not to long ago as a way to make a point? I didn't here an apology from you, and if that is how you feel than you ARE a terrorist and nobody owes you anything!
Posted By: Grant...your an idiot (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 08:56 AM
FACT:
1.The LEFT AND RIGHT does NOT give a shit about YOU!
2.Money IS power!
3.If your not white, you not right!
4.Yes, we are ALL slaves!
5.YOU/WE ARE EXPENDABLE!
FICTION:
1.Our votes matter
2.ONE person can really make a difference.
3.A strong GOP will put this country back on track.
4.A determined Democratic house will put this country back on track.
5.Untrained civilia...TERRORISTS with AK-47s, Kobra Kai, and monkey bars are a threat to westeren society.
Posted By: Don Da Troof (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 09:19 AM
1. FACT
Yes it is forgettable. 50000 troops still in Iraq. Now the Zimmers, Olbermans, and Chris Matthews of the world probably jizzed in their panties over it, and got tingles up their legs, but by now, most Americans see that Obama is pretty much an empty suit.
2. Fact I guess. We have so many enemies around the world, and yet this administration makes a State an enemy. Yeah, that makes sense. The guy jumps the gun on saying the Cambridge police officer acted stupidly, but the administration wants to use restraint in calling the shooting at Ft. Hood an act of terrorism. What is civil and what is human about that?
3. Fiction I don't think it would be a huge mistake. For one thing, I'm not all together certain she would get the nomination. And remember one thing, there is an enormous difference between being a candidate for President, and being a candidate for Vice President. I don't know if I would vote for her or not. I have to see her in the primarys where she isn't shackled by the dipshit known as John McCain. One thing I do know is that all of the Republicans are seriously flawed one way or another, and whoever they choose, has to be a good campaigner if they want to take down the Obama machine. Regardless of how incompetent Obama is, he's still an outstanding campaigner, and you still have enough dumbasses who voted for Obama because "it was the cool thing to do", and those who bought into such great policy ideas such as "hope" and "change". Palin, thus far, is the only one that can draw a crowd for the GOP. That may change, but they are all seriously flawed at this point.
4. Fiction... North Korea allied with China? That isn't a good thing.
5. Fiction... the left wants to use this as some sort of reason to push through a "climate" bill that does nothing to lessen our dependence on oil, and certainly does nothing to improve the environment. No Offshore drilling doesn't solve anything, it just makes the GaryML anti-business Sierra Club trustfund baby left feel good about themselves.
Posted By: gwpbrian (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 09:36 AM
6. Fiction. I don't think it makes a socialist country. How about the government get out of the way and take away the uncertainty that is causing banks not to loan, and businesses not to hire? Ask any business owner, why they aren't hiring. It isn't because they are "keeping all the money for themselves." The overall velocity of spending has slowed greatly, so therefore people aren't buying shit. So businesses suffer too. That's how a market works. Despite what Nancy Pelosi says, "giving the unemployed money so they can spend it." Most people get that money and pay their bills to stay afloat. They aren't going to best buy to buy xboxes, or Macys to load up on the latest greatest clothing. Business owners don't know how much obamacare is going to hit them in the shorts. They don't know how much of an effect the expiring Bush Tax Cuts will have at the beginning of next year. It gets back to uncertainty. When you have your government working against you every step of the way, at some point you just throw your hands up.
Posted By: gwpbrian (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 09:38 AM
As a mexican I am ok w the arizona law. When anyone gets stopped by the cops we all have to produce an I'd. We aren't all bangers or illegals but our communities have been beaten down by the gangs n violence they bring. They can ask me for my I'd 1000 times if that means its getting drugs n gangbangers off the street. Viva 1070
Posted By: x o816 (Guest) on September 06, 2010 at 03:49 PM"
Amen. In Florida you have to be able to show your ID to any cop that asks our you are considered a vagrant. How is that Human or Civil Rights abuse?
You show your ID, they move on, the end.
Posted By: DeimosMasque (Guest) on September 06, 2010 at 04:00 PM
WOW! So your telling me that you cant decifer between a person wearing 12 layers of clothes on a 90 degree day pushing a cart full of shit and a person that isnt!?!?!?!?!?
Posted By: Don Da Troof (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 10:00 AM
WOW! So your telling me that you cant decifer between a person wearing 12 layers of clothes on a 90 degree day pushing a cart full of shit and a person that isnt!?!?!?!?!?
Posted By: Don Da Troof (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 10:00 AM
Amen to that brother...Living in Jersey and frequently having to drive through Newark...it is REALLY obvious what is a vagrant and what isn't.
Shopping Cart filled with junk,
Cloths that look like they haven't been washed in a while, signs asking for money and or walking up and down the street near a traffic light asking for money. If they aren't doing that many of them are at or near bridges where they call home unless they are lucky enough to find some shelter in a church.
But I could see how a cop could confuse that sort of person with a normal clean cut person (of any race or gender) walking down the street and think they are a vagrant.
Really comon people your joking right?
Posted By: Guest#4623 (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 10:57 AM
Apologies to DeimosMasque, as I don't mean to call him out specifically... but can we please specifically not allow "Faction" or other waffling answers? It's annoying and, more importantly, unnecessary.
Look at the statement: " It would be a huge mistake for both Palin and the GOP for her to run in 2012 as she has no chance of winning."
Now, look at the response: "Sarah Palin won't necessarily get killed, and she's one of the best candidates the GOP still has for a Presidential run, unless they find a political unknown."
The response is FICTION. Clearly, because she is "one of the best candidates the GOP still has", it would not be "a huge mistake for both Palin and the GOP for her to run". There is an obvious disagreement with a key part of the statement, making it false.
I have seen something like this every time someone waffles. The problem is that we assume that if you give a statement a "Fiction" you would also give the opposite of that statement a "Fact"... which is not necessarily true either.
Sorry for the rant... this has ALWAYS gotten to me when I read FoFs...
Posted By: J. Alexander Mitchell (Registered) on September 07, 2010 at 11:37 AM
I believe the importance of the President's speech was diminished in the fact that sure you are pulling troops out of Iraq but you are sending a majority of them to Afghanistan which isn't at all better.
Posted By: Guest#9630 (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 12:07 PM
1. Fact. Snoozefest. Recycled jargon from every other time a president has removed troops from someplace we don't belong. No one will remember it in a year...barring more troups being sent into Baghdad.
2. First of all, Arizona has a constitutional right to protect its borders in the way that the state of Arizona sees fit. Secondly, the UN has no authority over Arizona, therefore this being presented at the UN is pointless and is being done for nothing more than political sway. 'This is how the rest of the world feels about you, AZ!' Let's not forget that Idi Amin was the head of that little human rights council at one point...The UN is worthless.
3. Fact. It would be a MASSIVE mistake for the GOP to run her, since they would lose credibility the second she opens her mouth. But as far as not having a chance...I say that's a bit of a stretch, but the odds are against her. Put it this way, Obama would have to piss a LOT more people off for Palin to be Prez in 2012. She's awful. Always has been and always will be.
4. Fact. Neighbors visiting over a spot of tea? Not to be too gruff here, but who DOES care about this? China has no reason to back NK militarily, since NK has nothing to offer them. This is a neighborly gesture to a dying crazy person. Dig up some real news and stop worrying about Kim Jong.
5. Mega Fiction. This is media sensationalism at its worst. Where is the oil on this one? Oh, and to Mr. Florida. I love how your beaches were so awful that several hotel owners are literally suing the news programs that broadcasted stories of Floria Beach Oil, seeing as it was never there (in Florida) and it hurt their business. News for the sake of news.
6. Fact, but I'm disregarded the whole 'socialist' thing. To be frank, the more entitlement programs that you make available, the more people are going to take advantage of them. That's how our society has worked for a while now. It sucks, but it's a difficult fix...and a politically bad one at that.
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 12:45 PM
5) An offshore oil and gas platform in the Gulf of Mexico owned by Mariner Energy Inc (ME.N) burst into flames on Thursday morning near Louisiana, close to the site of BP oil platform disaster from earlier this year. This new explosion is reason enough for the moratorium on offshore drilling not to be lifted.
A THOUSAND TIMES FACT! The Exxon Valdez Disaster (remember that one, oil fans???) was reason enough to have a moratorium in the first place. There have been plenty of reasons since the 70's, yet we never learn. It should never have come to this gulf disaster in the first place, nor should we have had this last accident, because this should have stopped decades ago. How many more times do I have to witness animals burning in ocean fires set by BP clean-up crews or drowning in a million gallons of it from a boating disaster? How many more times do I have to witness people going into poverty because they can't run their fishing businesses? How many more times do I have to watch oil spilled into my environment?? How long before the rich stop getting richer off of higher gas prices due to these spills???
Posted By: Nate (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 06:51 PM
"First of all, Arizona has a constitutional right to protect its borders in the way that the state of Arizona sees fit. "
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 12:45 PM
Ummm... I don't believe that is correct.
Posted By: J. Alexander Mitchell (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 07:51 PM
"First of all, Arizona has a constitutional right to protect its borders in the way that the state of Arizona sees fit. "
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 12:45 PM
Ummm... I don't believe that is correct.
Posted By: J. Alexander Mitchell (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 07:51 PM
It actually depends on what you deem an "Invasion". The government has to protect the state as it says in the constitution (See section 4 article 4).
Article 1 section 9 states in part that states cannot "keep troops or ships of war in time of peace; nor enter into any agreement or compact with another State, or with any foreign power; nor engage in any war, unless it shall be actually invaded by enemies, or the danger of invasion be so imminent, as not to admit of a delay, until the Legislature of the United States can be consulted."
So it seems to me that Arizona DOES NOT have the CONSTITUTIONAL right to protect it's own borders. There are border patrols in place (yes maybe not as many as they would like but they are there), the constitution says if an INVASION is imminent. It's pretty clear they did not mean illegal aliens because frankly there was no such thing when when this was written. Invasion meant Invasion from another country trying to take over the territory, and that is NOT happening.
The bottom line is this, you can't take parts of hte constitution you don't like and cherry pick it. Just like Republicans and the NRA like to talk about the "right to bear arms" and there is no wiggle room for what is meant by the people who wrote it 200+ years ago, this ALSO is pretty clear.
Since there IS NO invasion they do not have the right, end of story.
Posted By: saywhat (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 08:24 PM
J. Alexander Mitchell, hey I like a lot of your post, and you seem like a really bright guy. At first I kinda agreed with the whole faction thing. However, I thing we should allow it. You know Kerry got called a waffler...which to me is an insult to the person that says Waffler...but people like Grant like that kinda thing. Anyway, you seem like one of the brighter lights on the forums. So maybe we should allow it. Sometimes there are grey areas, and to only see black and white is not a good thing. What do you think?
gotta go deal with Grant now...jesus.
Posted By: Charles (Guest) on September 07, 2010 at 08:52 PM
1) FACT: While President Obama has been successful by sticking with the Bush strategy in Iraq, not many people give him credit for his ability to leave key personal and a successful plan in place. Conservatives credit the surge and will never give Obama credit due to his opposing the plan. Far left liberals are foolishly upset that he did not pull the troops from Iraq on day 1.
Also, it was a very boring speech.
2) FACT: The United Nations Human Rights Council is an embarrassment. President Obama made a huge mistake by granting this group of human rights violators any legitimacy. This is a case where Obama should have followed the lead of his predecessor and ignored this joke of an organization.
3) FICTION: Sarah Palin will be an excellent candidate for the GOP nomination. She has a strong political base, strong support among general conservatives, and drives liberals nuts - all good things. With that said, I do not believe that she can capture the nomination as she is a very polarizing figure to independents. I believe that she will fill a role in the GOP similar to other polarizing political figures like Hilary Clinton and Howard Dean do for the Democratic Party.
4) FICTION: It means nothing.
5) FICTION: Offshore drilling moratorium is bad for the economy. It's only in place as an answer to the Obama Administrations incredibly poor response to the BP Oil Spill crisis.
6) FICTION: These programs have increased enrollment due to a very bad economy. While it's true that wealth redistribution programs hurt the free market economy, socialism is not the reason for the increase in request for government assistance.
Posted By: JustSayin (Guest) on September 08, 2010 at 05:17 PM
I posted a big long tirade about Grant disproving his usual nonsense but it did not get posted(I secretly think Grant is a 411 writer trolling for comments), so I will try again
I accept your challenge grant, consider the gauntlet thrown down.
Oh, I think you should take on Gary, Jason or Mark, though, they would own you faster then I would.
Posted By: Charles (Guest) on September 09, 2010 at 09:14 AM
"Apologies to DeimosMasque, as I don't mean to call him out specifically... but can we please specifically not allow "Faction" or other waffling answers? It's annoying and, more importantly, unnecessary."
No your right and I take no offense. Honestly FACTION was usually what I wrote when I didn't know what I was going to type afterwards looking back on my answers I'd say:
3. FICTION - Though I'm still sure she'd lose.
5. Fiction - Not until we know what happened.
And to another poster the Exxon Valdez disaster was a Tanker disaster, and the Oil came from the land, not ocean drilling so I don't see what it has to do with Oil Rigs in the gulf.
Posted By: DeimosMasque (Guest) on September 09, 2010 at 11:39 AM
And to another poster the Exxon Valdez disaster was a Tanker disaster, and the Oil came from the land, not ocean drilling so I don't see what it has to do with Oil Rigs in the gulf.
Posted By: DeimosMasque (Guest) on September 09, 2010 at 11:39 AM
Neither does he, or GaryML, or Zimmer or any other person that thinks anti-drilling does anything but make them feel good about themselves.
Posted By: gwpbrian (Guest) on September 09, 2010 at 04:48 PM
Neither does he, or GaryML, or Zimmer or any other person that thinks anti-drilling does anything but make them feel good about themselves.
Posted By: gwpbrian (Guest) on September 09, 2010 at 04:48 PM
You mean aside from the fact it sets a false goal. Instead of finding alternate answers for energy which have been discussed at length in other comment sections here, that you choose to ignore, the plan is to remain on oil and just find more of our own?
That is some real forward thinking right there
Posted By: kenneth (Guest) on September 09, 2010 at 10:04 PM
"You mean aside from the fact it sets a false goal. Instead of finding alternate answers for energy which have been discussed at length in other comment sections here, that you choose to ignore, the plan is to remain on oil and just find more of our own?"
Everyone agrees that finding alternative fuels and alternative energy isn't going to happen over night. Even if there wasn't a ridiculous controversy over Nuclear power, and we decided to change every power plant in America to Nuclear, it would probably take 20 years before it was even partially complete.
Why is it bad to continue using the fuels we have and finding new sources for it, while at the same time finding alternatives to it?
Posted By: DeimosMasque (Guest) on September 10, 2010 at 06:01 PM
Everyone agrees that finding alternative fuels and alternative energy isn't going to happen over night. Even if there wasn't a ridiculous controversy over Nuclear power, and we decided to change every power plant in America to Nuclear, it would probably take 20 years before it was even partially complete.
Why is it bad to continue using the fuels we have and finding new sources for it, while at the same time finding alternatives to it?
Posted By: DeimosMasque (Guest) on September 10, 2010 at 06:01 PM
So where is all the money coming from? Do you think if companies can still make a buck for the next 30 years off of oil they are going to spend ANYTHING on alternative energy. Aside from that, most people are bitching about what the government is spending - it has been said here before that LESS than 1% is spent on renewable energy.
So if we don't make priority #1 ahead of even oil drilling aren't we really just chasing our own tail around and around?
if enough money was spent and enough people behind it the switch over could probably happen in 10 years max. But big oil is so entrenched how is it in their interest to support any of this?
Unless the government REALLY pushes companies or encourages them to go that route nothing will change, and just being happy with the status quo and saying what you are saying is just being lazy and unimaganative at the possabilities that are out there and CAN happen if the resources were provided.
THAT is the problem.
Posted By: kenneth (Guest) on September 10, 2010 at 10:39 PM
STAY CURRENT