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 411mania » Politics » Blog Entry
Congress to Welfare Recipients: No More Strip Clubs, Casinos, or Liquor for You
Posted by Enrique on 02.08.2012





In these tough economic times when the U.S. has run up an obscene amount of debt, it's depressing how unserious our elected officials are about reducing the size of government. The mere suggestion of slowing the growth of government spending (not even actual cuts) is typically described as catastrophic, while any proposals to cut actual spending are so tiny they're basically meaningless.

The latest example of the "cuts so tiny they're meaningless" genre is the Welfare Integrity Now for Children and Families Act, which the U.S. House passed just last week by the overwhelming vote of 395-27. When a bill has that much bipartisan support and contains the phrase "Children and Families," it must be rubbish. And in fact, the purpose of the WIN for Children and Families Act (barf) is to prevent welfare recipients from spending their benefits in strip clubs, casinos, or liquor stores. Because apparently that's going to put a dent in that $15 trillion debt. Christ.

The story so far…


Killjoy

A few fun facts about Louisiana Congressperson Charles Boustany (pictured above):

1. He's a cardiovascular surgeon by training
2. He's serving his fourth term in Congress
3. He cares about children and families as much as he cares about taxpayers

To demonstrate how much he cares, Boustany introduced the WIN bill to "Protect Taxpayer Dollars from Waste, Fraud, and Abuse" according to the press release on his website, which also says:

"Congress has an obligation to make sure taxpayer dollars are spent appropriately. This legislation stops waste, fraud, and abuse within the welfare program. It protects the public interest by ensuring money meant to help Americans get back on their feet is used for that very purpose. Providing access to welfare funds on EBT cards in strip clubs, liquor stores, and casinos was never the intent of the program. This bill holds states responsible for protecting taxpayer funds while continuing to provide the support many American families need during these difficult times."
If you're interested, you read the WIN for Children and Families Act here, and it's only 500 some-odd words, which is pretty forgiving by the typical standards of government regulation. It's pretty straightforward – it directs states to take steps to stop TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) funds from being used in liquor stores, casinos, and establishments where "performers disrobe or perform in an unclothed state for entertainment." It even makes exceptions for grocery stores that sell liquor or lottery tickets.

On one hand, I have no particular objection to reining in the welfare state. My personal feeling is if you're going to have a safety net, it should be temporary and only available to the truly needy. For example, if Rep. Boustany introduced legislation to cut back unemployment benefits from the current 99-week limit, he could make several defensible arguments for such a bill (e.g., it creates an incentive to stay out of the labor force for 99 weeks, which significantly harms one's employment prospects).

On the other hand, Rep. Boustany's bill is unserious on its face. Here he is explaining his silly little bill on Fox News last week. I'm embedding this video mostly because it features a clip of my personal Congressperson, Rep. Gwen Moore, at 2:12 doing something I don't think she's ever done before – make a good point.



"What stops people from going to Whole Foods and using the EBT card there [at an ATM] and then going to casino?" Moore asks. "It is just another effort to berate those people who are in the lower classes."

Well, that's a half a good point anyway – I don't believe a lot of lower class people are being berated by having to withdraw money from a grocery store ATM before spending it at a casino. But her point that Boustany's bill is obviously ineffectual can't be argued. If someone wants to spend their welfare benefit at a strip club, all the WIN Act does is make them stop at an approved ATM beforehand. How is that supposed to stop waste, fraud, and abuse?

Boustany replies by saying Moore is making a "bogus argument." If you're saying that about Moore, 99 times out of 100 you're going to be right. This is the one time you're not. There is nothing in Boustany's lousy bill that will stop anyone who wants to from spending the welfare money at a liquor store or casino. Nothing. And yet this Boustany character is going on about how it's important to make sure "the money gets into the children's hands and the hands of the needy families who depend on this…we don't want deadbeat dads going to strip clubs and spending this money."

To reiterate – there is nothing in Boustany's lame WIN bill that is going to stop a deadbeat dad from spending welfare funds in a strip club. The only way to stop someone from spending money irresponsibly is to not give them money in the first place. If Boustany wants to propose ending federal assistance altogether and leaving it up to individual states to create their own welfare programs, we can talk about that. But his WIN bill is crap.

Rather than rein in the welfare state properly, politicians prefer to use welfare recipients as lab rats in their silly social engineering experiments. For years New York City's mayor Nanny Bloomberg has been toying with the idea of prohibiting food stamp users from buying soda. And just last week, the state of Florida one-upped Boustany and Bloomberg by passing a bill to ban food stamp users from buying junk food:

Florida's poor can use food stamps to buy staples like milk, vegetables, fruits and meat. But they can also use them to buy sweets like cakes, cookies and Jell-O and snack foods like chips, something a state senator wants stopped. […]

The bill would also require the state to launch a culturally sensitive campaign to educate people about the benefits of a nutritious diet. Supporters say it would help recipients follow healthy eating habits and prevent taxpayer funds from being used to purchase luxury foods like bakery cakes when they can whip up a cheaper box mix.

"Most individuals using public assistance dollars are using the funds to get by and to provide for their families. However, we should do what we can to prevent dollars intended to help Florida's poorest families from being spent in the wrong places," [Sen. Ronda] Storms said in a statement.
Funny how people who claim to care about the poor and the needy are always blatantly condescending to the poor and the needy. Personally, I don't particularly care about the poor or the needy, but there's nothing to be gained by micromanaging how they spend their welfare benefits. Let the poor bastards have their comfort food. And like with Boustany's WIN bill, it's not like you can stop them from taking cash out of ATMs and using it to buy Doritos.

If you want to help welfare recipients, give them clear, simple boundaries. Give them a defined benefit, tell them they can spend it on whatever they want, but when it's gone, it's gone. That would enable them to plan how to use their temporary assistance without worrying about some finger-wagging busybody telling them they can't buy cookies or beer. If they can't manage that, they're beyond help. There are some things our elected representatives can't fix. What they could fix if they were serious is this $15 trillion debt. Maybe when Boustany's done wasting everyone's time with his pitiful WIN bill, he could get to work on that.

One of the problems with giving the government the power to try and fix everything is that everything becomes politicized—education, healthcare, home ownership, welfare, etc. Boustany's bill and Florida's proposed junk food ban are just the latest examples of what happens when government power grows unchecked. Instead of trying to simplify and reduce the welfare state, these jokers are trying to make it more complicated and tedious. As long as we're tinkering with the welfare state rather than making fundamental changes to the government's role in our lives, everybody loses.

Or maybe I should say, nobody WINs.


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Wait, so you think they should be able to spend this money that us working taxpayers give them on bullshit???? Your out of your fucking mind!!!! I'm a manager in a major wholesaler that loses his damned mind when these welfare recipients are buying TVS an shit with their welfare/debit card....actually reverse that, debit/welfare card, because THAT is what its been turned into. Welfare in this country is a fucking joke and anything passing to curtail the BLATANT FUCKING ABUSE BY THE LEECHES THAT USE THIS SHIT is needed.

Posted By: Guest#8815 (Guest)  on February 08, 2012 at 11:23 PM

 
 
Why do people worship Atlas Shrugged?
Kafka's The Castle is obviously the most realistic portrayal American politics.


Posted By: Guest#8238 (Guest)  on February 08, 2012 at 11:38 PM

 
 
Wait, so you think they should be able to spend this money that us working taxpayers give them on bullshit???? Your out of your fucking mind!!!! I'm a manager in a major wholesaler that loses his damned mind when these welfare recipients are buying TVS an shit with their welfare/debit card....actually reverse that, debit/welfare card, because THAT is what its been turned into. Welfare in this country is a fucking joke and anything passing to curtail the BLATANT FUCKING ABUSE BY THE LEECHES THAT USE THIS SHIT is needed.

Posted By: Guest#8815 (Guest) on February 08, 2012 at 11:23 PM

Who the fuck would put you in charge of anything? You don't even have a grasp on simple logic.

He's not arguing that they should be able to use that money in any of these places. He's pointing out the needless bureaucracy of a bill that WON'T stop people from doing the exact thing its intended to do.

I mean, Christ. Fucking reading comprehension. It's not hard.


Posted By: Guest#4568 (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 12:57 AM

 
 
Welfare is for those in need, not those in need of a fix or those in need of gambling. If you cannot afford it, don't buy it, unless you can pay what your going to owe back. As far as I'm concerned, those recieving welfare and gambling or getting their fix owe that money back because that is not what welfare is intended for. It is for those in need to get by, when it comes to food and clothes, not luxury that they cannot afford in the first place, those that are caught using welfare for the wrong reasons should be charged with frauding the government and the taxpayers. Maybe if they used the money the way it was soppose to be used for, they might be able to possibly bounce back, but when they use their welfare irresponsibly, they should be cut off or be forced to pay it back. Welfare has been in need of reform, but with a socialist in charge and the number of poor rising, what can you expect. As for the repukes, maybe they do need to pay some competative wages, but that would cut into their profits and seriously, put yourself in their shoes, if mt profits dropped I would not be happy, but this is another argument in itself.

Posted By: Honest Truth (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 01:17 AM

 
 
If you really want to make sure that welfare funds are going towards what they were intended to then all you need to do is the following:

1. Purchases can only be made with the card. No cash advances, and any returns result in money put back on the card, not cash refund or store credit.

2. Only items tagged as "food" on the register can be bought with the card. Food items are already tagged in such a manner so that they aren't taxed, so no need for a new process taking place.

Here is how this would play out at the checkout counter: A person lays out the items they picked up in the store. The cashier rings them up and then states that your "purchases" ring up as $12 and $20. The food items came to $12 and can be paid for by the EBT card, but the non-food items (cigarettes, alchohol, whatever) cannot be paid for via the EBT card. There are stil ways around this, but they become more of a hassle for the person trying to game the system. Now if you (or the government) also mean for EBT funds to cover other items (such as clothing or fuel), then those purchase tags can be made allowable as well.


Posted By: Wys (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 01:25 AM

 
 
Pointless or not, if it stops even 10% using their welfare money in ways that they shouldn't, isn't that considered more effective than the current model?

Posted By: Realm (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 03:21 AM

 
 
I work my ass off trying to help run a Jewelry store for 9.00(yes nine!) Dollars and hour and possibly commision(mostly not) and I have to deal with these welfare leeches on a daily basis, using their welfare cards to have credit accounts to BUY JEWELRY of all things.

No one should get competitive money to what I make just for being a piece of shit. I waste my whole day being an asshole salesman cuz there is no oil jobs available because of all the fucking EPA restrictions have made it so tight,h.

But in reality if they cut these people off, I won't get paid anymore. The people on top will pay less taxes and their bank accounts will just balloon, 0% of the money will trickle down to me as "Reaganomics" would have you believe. It's sad that some people think they need millions and millions of dollars in their accounts and they don't think enough of their soldiers actually selling their shit.

Drop taxes through the floor and raise minimum wage to a living wage (13.00 per hour) I don't ask for much but as an able bodied 23 year old man I should be able to make a real living if I want to in America. Being able to pay your rent and have a good car and maybe once a year take a 1 day vacation to watch a god damn baseball game like the last generation. What happened to our country.


Posted By: sp1 (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 04:33 AM

 
 
More unnecessary government.

1) Drug test the welfare recipients. (money going to legit alcohol stores, strip clubs, ect. is one thing... going to crime organization is another)

2) Take the kids away from mothers who can't manage their welfare money.

Also, I personally think anyone living off welfare shouldn't be allowed to vote. I consider running on a plans to "increase welfare and extended unemployment benefits" as a fucking monetary bribe for votes.


Posted By: Rehab (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 05:02 AM

 
 
Ok I am not sure what welfare benifits you can spend at a stripclub or casino.
You can't spend food stamps at fast food or regular resteruants.
You can't buy alcohol or energy drinks.
About restricting chips and other junk I would imagine it would be quite hard with the vast number of things that are bad for. Would you restrict people from buying 20% ground beef and only allowing 7% ground beef & chicken?


Posted By: guest (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 05:16 AM

 
 
Let's do the Ron Paul and the ultra conservative model and just throw them all out on the street! Let's not give them ANYTHING.

This would solve the problem of not giving them ANY government money.

Then of course there is the downside of having more crime because they can't get jobs (otherwise why be on welfare right?) so the streets would be unsafe.

Then of course if they do get put in prison for crime, they are getting fed 3 meals a day and having a roof over their head ALL ON TAXPAYER MONEY (and it costs ALOT more than welfare)

And what would you rather have, passing buy the 1 vagrant you MIGHT drive passed in the big city on the way to work, or would you rather pass an entire homeless community!

Hell if you really want to save money keep paying these folks welfare. Better yet, train some of these people to actually DO SOMETHING. It would be cheaper for everyone in the long run.

Or just keep calling them leeches, cut off their aid and see what happens in this country. Anyone who thinks that is a solution needs their head examined.


Posted By: really? (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 08:24 AM

 
 
I work my ass off trying to help run a Jewelry store for 9.00(yes nine!) Dollars and hour and possibly commision(mostly not) and I have to deal with these welfare leeches on a daily basis, using their welfare cards to have credit accounts to BUY JEWELRY of all things.

Drop taxes through the floor and raise minimum wage to a living wage (13.00 per hour) I don't ask for much but as an able bodied 23 year old man I should be able to make a real living if I want to in America. Being able to pay your rent and have a good car and maybe once a year take a 1 day vacation to watch a god damn baseball game like the last generation. What happened to our country.

Posted By: sp1 (Guest) on February 09, 2012 at 04:33 AM

LOL you don't know how funny this post is to me. You make $9/hr, which means you definitely take more in services out than you're paying in with taxes. That means someone like me is actually subsidizing you. I don't think you even actually pay taxes, or you pay a very small amount. Certainly not enough to cover for someone else's welfare. I actually pay more in taxes than you make each week, which sucks and shows me I'm being taxed too much.

Also, at your age, many of us were serving in the military. If you're able bodied, there is always that option. Seriously, you go through the high end management of Fortune 200 companies and a huge chunk are former military.


Posted By: Guest#6440 (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 09:34 AM

 
 
Also, at your age, many of us were serving in the military. If you're able bodied, there is always that option. Seriously, you go through the high end management of Fortune 200 companies and a huge chunk are former military.

Posted By: Guest#6440 (Guest) on February 09, 2012 at 09:34 AM

"Many of us"? I don't know who constitutes "us" but I'm sure that not "many" (as in less than 5%) of "us" were in the military.

Great advice though! "Hey kid! If you can't get a job, become the property of the government so they can ship you overseas to fight in a war we can't win! Then, after you get mind-fucked, come back to the states whrere you can be insane AND homeless!"


Posted By: Guest#9654 (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 11:27 AM

 
 
LOL you don't know how funny this post is to me. You make $9/hr, which means you definitely take more in services out than you're paying in with taxes. That means someone like me is actually subsidizing you. I don't think you even actually pay taxes, or you pay a very small amount. Certainly not enough to cover for someone else's welfare. I actually pay more in taxes than you make each week, which sucks and shows me I'm being taxed too much.

Also, at your age, many of us were serving in the military. If you're able bodied, there is always that option. Seriously, you go through the high end management of Fortune 200 companies and a huge chunk are former military.

Posted By: Guest#6440 (Guest) on February 09, 2012 at 09:34 AM

I'm not the guy you responded to but could you be ANYMORE of a smug ahole?

"many of us were serving in the military" is total BS pal. Yeah there is a small % who served in the military and I venture to guess, unless you have ANTHING to back up your crap with, that you are dead wrong on fortune 200 companies.

I could just as easily say most fortune 200 companies upper management dropped out of college. I offer as much to back up that claim as you did.

Don't answer the guys point about Minimum wage though, let's change the topic and put another person down and say some garbage like I pay more in taxes than you make in a week, because that is a REALLY productive way to solve problems.

People like you make me sick and is EVERYTHING that is wrong with this country today. Say whatever you want pal, people like YOU are the problem with your ridiculous asshole attitude toward anyone else not like you.


Posted By: Guest#7218 (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 11:50 AM

 
 
If you google the statistics you'll see that former military officers are overrepresented in management for Fortune 200 companies. This is common knowledge.

I work at a Fortune 200, I was hired by a former military officer.

If you're not willing to put in your time or better yourself what right do you have to complain? Why would you be handed a job over people that hustle?

Instead you want to sit there on the internet and complain about poor people, while not doing anything yourself. If you're going to judge other people, how can you then turn around and complain when somebody else throws facts at you? I'm not the one knocking the people on welfare, that was the other guy, who refuses to better himself.

Get on welfare for all I care, it makes no difference to me. Once I pay those tax dollars it's not like I can get them back, if it's not used on welfare it'll just be used on corporate welfare or just be wasted. The government never gives the money back or saves it for later use, once it's in the budget it is going to be spent (and then some, that's why we run a deficit).


Posted By: Guest#4090 (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 12:05 PM

 
 
Welfare should strictly be for the bare necessities of the recipient, as to not completely destroy the incentive to do good for yourself and get off of welfare.

Posted By: Guest#7947 (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 03:34 PM

 
 
"2. Only items tagged as "food" on the register can be bought with the card. Food items are already tagged in such a manner so that they aren't taxed, so no need for a new process taking place."

This is a good idea. Such a good idea that they already do it in fact.


Posted By: Jlevysan (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 04:42 PM

 
 
And by spending their money on strip clubs, alcohol and
you mean working in strip clubs on the side to pay for their kids, drinking alcohol like 40 ouncers that cost like a buck or two a piece because there's no fucking jobs in the country...and by Casinos you mean working in them cause they're Native Americans?


Posted By: Uh? yeah! (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 05:16 PM

 
 
I live in Louisiana, and Boustany is a fucking joke, just like that jugeared fuckwad Bobby Jindal. I promise you, if you look below the surface, he'll prove to be one of the shittiest governors of all time.

Posted By: Guest#5126 (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 05:38 PM

 
 
give them decent jobs, if you have money for welfare then you have may have money for organizing an institution that provides training (not military because that already exists) and employment using welfare as salary, people with jobs can be productive to society and not just leeches as some call them... problem may be solved by re organizing the system not by introducing complex and meaningless bureocracy

Posted By: Guest#2992 (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 06:42 PM

 
 
So you just flat-out admit you don't care about the poor and homeless? Is this Romney blogging? I assume you've always lived a comfortable life and don't know what it's like to struggle.

Also, the person saying those who get welfare shouldn't be allowed to vote...what a free country that would be. Not so libertarian to deny people votes, now is it?

Some cold, heartless people on here.


Posted By: Guest#9885 (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 07:44 PM

 
 
"If you really want to make sure that welfare funds are going towards what they were intended to then all you need to do is the following:

1. Purchases can only be made with the card. No cash advances, and any returns result in money put back on the card, not cash refund or store credit.

2. Only items tagged as "food" on the register can be bought with the card. Food items are already tagged in such a manner so that they aren't taxed, so no need for a new process taking place.

Here is how this would play out at the checkout counter: A person lays out the items they picked up in the store. The cashier rings them up and then states that your "purchases" ring up as $12 and $20. The food items came to $12 and can be paid for by the EBT card, but the non-food items (cigarettes, alchohol, whatever) cannot be paid for via the EBT card. There are stil ways around this, but they become more of a hassle for the person trying to game the system. Now if you (or the government) also mean for EBT funds to cover other items (such as clothing or fuel), then those purchase tags can be made allowable as well."

That's exactly how it works at my grocery store.

Fun fact, a few years back, Sodas were sold with sales tax, not food tax. At that time, they were ineligible for food stamp usage. At some point, that changed.


Posted By: G-Walla (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 08:24 PM

 
 
This article is what is so messed up about the United States...

Someone has a fantastic idea, to stop people wasting their welfare money on strip clubs, casinos and alcohol, and it faces opposition? It's ridiculous really


Posted By: Realm (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 08:54 PM

 
 
LOL you don't know how funny this post is to me. You make $9/hr, which means you definitely take more in services out than you're paying in with taxes. That means someone like me is actually subsidizing you. I don't think you even actually pay taxes, or you pay a very small amount. Certainly not enough to cover for someone else's welfare. I actually pay more in taxes than you make each week, which sucks and shows me I'm being taxed too much.

Also, at your age, many of us were serving in the military. If you're able bodied, there is always that option. Seriously, you go through the high end management of Fortune 200 companies and a huge chunk are former military.

Posted By: Guest#6440 (Guest) on February 09, 2012 at 09:34 AM

Do you even know the state the military is in today? I'm in the Air Force. They've been doing force reductions for the past year because they have TOO MANY people. They just did a round with officers a few months back. People in like seven or eight different career fields on the enlisted side are not able to reenlist this year in their current career field because the Air Force is trying to reduce its size. They're not the only branch. It's harder today to enlist than its ever been, and don't even get started on the commissioning process, which is even more cut throat due to ridiculously limited space. The military has now instituted ridiculous restrictions on potential enlistees like the number of tattoos you can have on your body just to thin out the number of people trying to get in.

And you're also overlooking the even more ridiculous rate of veteran unemployment, which stands at a higher percentage than in the civilian population. It's why Obama spent the past year trying to push government agencies to hire more veterans.


Posted By: Guest#4419 (Guest)  on February 09, 2012 at 11:08 PM

 
 
Also, I personally think anyone living off welfare shouldn't be allowed to vote. I consider running on a plans to "increase welfare and extended unemployment benefits" as a fucking monetary bribe for votes.


Thats a "great" idea. Maybe we should also make it a requirment that you own land to vote.
We could it like Robert Hienlien suggested and make millitary service a requirment to vote.
You know Jim Crow had a lot of good ideas too.


Posted By: guest (Guest)  on February 10, 2012 at 06:02 AM

 
 
This article is what is so messed up about the United States...

Someone has a fantastic idea, to stop people wasting their welfare money on strip clubs, casinos and alcohol, and it faces opposition? It's ridiculous really

Posted By: Realm (Guest) on February 09, 2012 at 08:54 PM

No, it isn't a fantastic idea. It is the same as the Florida drug testing where then spend millions to stop all those "welfare queens" but it turns out 2% of participants were using. This plan was nothing short of an epic failure because it was an attempt to show how everyone abuses welfare. Sure it has problems but the so called "waste" pales in comparison to what you see on the corporate level.


Posted By: Guest#4778 (Guest)  on February 10, 2012 at 07:36 AM

 
 
No, it isn't a fantastic idea. It is the same as the Florida drug testing where then spend millions to stop all those "welfare queens" but it turns out 2% of participants were using. This plan was nothing short of an epic failure because it was an attempt to show how everyone abuses welfare. Sure it has problems but the so called "waste" pales in comparison to what you see on the corporate level.

Posted By: Guest#4778 (Guest) on February 10, 2012 at 07:36 AM

No deny there is waste on a corporate level, but this is a different issue entirely. We're talking about money that has been allocated for use on food and essentials being used for alcohol, liquor and gambling. And you're saying its not a fantastic idea for the government to put a stop to it? Let me put it in a different way...

You have basically said that it is okay for those on welfare to spend there money of things such as alcohol, strippers and gambling because there is more wastage on a corporate level.

This isn't a bill to attempt to show how everyone abuses welfare, it's one designed to stop those that do.


Posted By: Realm (Guest)  on February 10, 2012 at 12:07 PM

 
STAY CURRENT




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