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 411mania » Politics » Blog Entry
Winning Texas & Ohio Won't Be Enough For Clinton
Posted by Ashish on 02.29.2008



By now, everyone knows that Hillary Clinton needs to win both Texas and Ohio on Tuesday to remain in the race for the Democratic nomination. Right now, polls have her slightly up in Ohio and slightly down (or tied) in Texas. She could still win both states, though the idea of her winning by big margins seems unrealistic. But if we look at the rest of the Democratic primary schedule, even if she wins in TX and OH, it remains very unlikely that she will come close to catching up Obama's pledged delegate lead. Let's examine...

CURRENT SITUATION: The current situation, according to NBC, is that Obama has a 156 pledged delegate lead (1192 for Obama, 1036 for Clinton). Clinton leads among Superdelegates 254 to 203, for a net of 51. So she trails in total delegates by 105. It's also worth nothing that since Super Tuesday, Obama has gained 33 superdelegates while Clinton has lost six, meaning that superdelegates are, at best, divided between the two candidates.

Now, let's look at the remaining states and show what would happen in a BEST CASE SCENARIO for Clinton and a WORST CASE SCENARIO for Obama.

MARCH 4TH

TEXAS: Right now, according to most polls, Texas is more or less a tie. But keep in mind that Texas awards a chunk of its delegates based on the primary vote and another chunk based on a caucus. Texas also awards delegates based on district and the districts with the most delegates (large African American communities and Austin) are mostly Obama strongholds. And we all know how strong Obama is in caucuses. So let's give Clinton the benefit of the doubt and say she wins the Texas primary vote by 5 points (no recent poll has her up by that much). Because of the way delegates are awarded, she will likely STILL lose the delegate count from the primary vote. And in the caucus, one would assume she, at best, may tie Obama. But let's give her a +5 delegates out of Texas anyway, which is probably a best case scenario for her. This means Obama now has a total 151 pledged delegate lead over her.

OHIO: Right now, according to most polls, Clinton has a slight lead in Ohio. Let's say she wins Ohio by 10 points (no poll has her up by that much). We can then estimate that she may come out of Ohio with a +20 delegates, another best case scenario for her. That would bring Obama's delegate lead down to 131 pledged delegates.

VERMONT: Right now, polls have Obama with a huge lead. Let's say he doesn't do as well as the polls say and only wins the state by 10 points, 55% to 45%. That means he would net roughly +3 delegates out of the state. So now his pledged delegate lead is 134 delegates.

RHODE ISLAND: Right now, polls have Clinton up solid. Let's say she does better than the polls indicate and wins by 16 points, 58% to 42%. That means she will likely net roughly +4 delegates out of the state. So now Obama's pledged delegate lead is 130 delegates.


MARCH 8TH

WYOMING: Wyoming is a red state caucus, the type that Obama has usually crushed Clinton in. He has more or less won states like this by 20-30 points and it's well known that Clinton has not put any organization into this state and has put everything she has into Texas and Ohio. But even still, let's say somehow Clinton wins this and nets +1 delegate. That means Obama's pledged delegate lead goes down to 129.


MARCH 11TH

MISSISSIPPI: Mississippi has one of the highest percentage of African American voters in the entire country and almost no Hispanics. States like this have been going to Obama by 20-30 points. But even still, let's say he only wins by 10 points, a worst case scenario for him. He will net roughly +5 delegates here. That puts his lead back up to 134 pledged delegates.


APRIL 22ND

PENNSYLVANIA: The most recent polls out of Pennsylvania have Clinton up slightly. Let's say she experiences no downward movement in the next month or so, something that has basically not happened in any state that wasn't one of her homestates. Infact, let's say she IMPROVES in the polls and wins the state by 10 points. That means she will net roughly +25 delegates out of the state. That takes Obama's pledged delegate lead down to 109.


MAY 3RD

GUAM: Little is known about how Guam would vote but it is a caucus state and has likely been ignored by the Clinton camp. But anyway, let's say that she narrowly wins and they split the 4 delegates, 2-2. That means Obama remains ahead by 109 pledged delegates.


MAY 6TH

INDIANA: Polls already have Obama leading in Indiana by double digits. But let's say he slips a bit and Clinton manages to win the state by a few points and nets +5 delegates. That takes his pledged delegate lead down to 104.

NORTH CAROLINA: Polls already have Obama leading this state by double digits as well and keep in mind that he won South Carolina by over 25 points. But let's say John Edwards (who is from North Carolina) endorses Clinton and that Obama fails to perform as well as he is supposed to and that she narrowly beats Obama, splitting the delegates. That means Obama remains ahead by 104 pledged delegates.


MAY 13TH

WEST VIRGINIA: Obama won Virginia by over 20 points and should perform well in West Virginia. But let's say he only wins by 5 points, he would still net somewhere around +4 delegates, putting his lead up to 108 pledged delegates.


MAY 20TH

KENTUCKY: This is another Southern red state, the type Obama has done very well in. But let's say he somehow loses this state and let's give Clinton +3 delegates. His lead is now 105 pledged delegates.

OREGON: Oregon is the type of liberal state that Obama should do VERY well in. A realistic figure would probably have him winning by double digits, but let's say he only wins by 5 points. That means he would net roughly +5 delegates, putting his lead up to 110 pledged delegates.


JUNE 3RD

MONTANA: This is another midwest red state and Obama has won similar states by 20-30+ points. But let's say Clinton somehow wins anyway and nets +2 delegates. That takes his pledged delegate lead down to 107.

SOUTH DAKOTA: Obama won North Dakota by over 20 points and ND is not very different from SD. But let's again say she manages to win narrowly here and nets +1 delegate, decreasing his lead to 106 pledged delegates.


JUNE 7TH

Puerto Rico: This is a caucus and Obama always does very well in caucuses. This is also an area where Obama will likely be better organized, and he also has the support of the main Democratic politicians in Puerto Rico. But let's say Clinton manages a slight win here and nets +5 delegates, that puts Obama's lead at 101 pledged delegates.


So in this WORST CASE SCENARIO for Obama where he loses EVERY STATE from here on out except Mississippi, Oregon, West Virginia, and Vermont, he would still end the primary season with a 101 PLEDGED DELEGATE LEAD. When you include the superdelegates that have already stated a preference, his lead is 50 DELEGATES. That means to win the nomination, Clinton would have to convince the remaing 350 or so superdelegates to ignore Obama's 101 pledged delegate lead and his popular vote lead (which he would have at this point) and more or less steal the nomination for her (which would likely tear the party apart and cost the Democrats the election in November). Superdelegates have shown no indication at all that they would do this and infact superdelegates are currently moving quickly to Obama (he has gained 33 superdelegates since February 5th, Clinton has lost six). Even one of her most loyal supporters and friends, John Lewis, switched to Obama this week.

So, just to recap, she will have to win OH & TX by 15+ points, win Pennsylvania by double digits, and then win every other state including states where she already trails by double digits such as Indiana and North Carolina and states that heavily favor Obama like South Dakota, Wyoming, and Kentucky. She would also have to keep Obama from winning by much in Mississippi (where he should win by 15-20 points), West Virginia, Oregon, and Vermont. And all that would just lead to her more or less finishing in a pledged delegate TIE with Obama at the end. She would then have to explain why superdelegates should pick her even though virtually every single poll out shows Obama performing better in the general election than her.

In short, winning TX and OH won't be enough for Clinton.


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Comments (14)

 
Ashish, I tried to think this through the other day and came to a similar conclusion without knowing Obama led in Indiana. With 16 contests left, I figure Obama wins WY, VT, SD, MT, NC and OR. Indiana is also likely in that category. TX, OH, PA, and Guam are all likely to be nail biters for Hillary. That does not leave her with many places to look for delegates aside from Florida and Michigan would likely cause riots in Denver.

Posted By: Dan Martin (Registered)  on February 29, 2008 at 01:21 AM

 
 
No. The Florida and Michigan voters must not be disenfranchised. Especially by the Democrats who argued for every vote to count in 2000 election. Let's count every vote. Hillary should get the delegate lead. Oh, and the Texas polls are fake. Hispanics make up a third of the vote and 90% of them will cast a vote for Hillary. If she gets 60%, she gains over 100 delegates according to Texas rules.

Posted By: Mark (Guest)  on February 29, 2008 at 02:56 AM

 
 
Who in their right mind would want Hillary? I take this election as first (first women trying to run and first black); however, I would rather wait another sixteen years than see Hillary get the nomination. If she does, we are going to have another Republican in the White House.

Posted By: David R. (Guest)  on February 29, 2008 at 03:09 AM

 
 
Mark: Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan; therefore, you can't make a case for counting these delegates. Regarding both Michigan and Florida: the candidates and the voters knew the rules going in. You don't change the rules to change the outcome of an election. The Supreme Court already did that in 2000, and look at the result.

Posted By: Nancy (Guest)  on February 29, 2008 at 03:25 AM

 
 
Mark, I echo the idea that Obama was not even on the ballot in Michigan. Also, the huge lead among Txas Hispanics is only borne out by Insider Advantage - a polling group that said Obama would finish 3rd in Iowa, that Obama would lose Missouri by 10-12 points, and that Hillary would win Wisconsin by 4 or 5 points. Now all three of those predictions by that polling group were WAY off to the point you wonder what their motivation is/was in their polling.

Posted By: Dan Martin (Registered)  on February 29, 2008 at 07:12 AM

 
 
To add to the correcting of your delusions, Mark, Hilary has won nowhere near 90% of Hispanic voters. Her BEST lead was winning 2/3 of their vote.

Posted By: AdamS (Guest)  on February 29, 2008 at 11:28 PM

 
 
Mark, I don't think you are paying attention to the math. She cannot win in large enough margins to take the delegate lead from Obama. The hypotheticals that were presented are not possible. The only way Hillary will take this nomination is if the democratic party decides to take it from Obama. Obama wasn't on the ballot in Michigan. Florida and Michigan broke the rules. While its not the voters fault those votes shouldn't be counted because the rest of the states followed the guidelines. They should have a revote or something. Hillary isn't up 90% in hispanics anyway. Where did you get that number? Obama is winning in Texas and Ohio is very close. She will not win big enough to take it from Obama. I do see her sticking her nose in like Huckabee or Nader and screwing up this election. VOTE OBAMA 08!!!

Posted By: Jessica (Guest)  on March 01, 2008 at 01:05 AM

 
 
Considering that Sen Clinton cannot win even under the most rosy of scenarios, the question then becomes, why is Clinton remaining in the race and why is she continuing to ask supporters for donations? Surely the Clinton campaign has seen these numbers. Why would Sen Clinton extend the Democratic primary when it benefits only Sen McCain and the GOP?

Posted By: Kane (Guest)  on March 01, 2008 at 11:45 AM

 
 
Zogby's polls for today were good news for Clinton in Texas as Obama's lead shrunk to 2 points. In Ohio, Zogby has Obama moving up and creating a tie in the Buckeye state. The in trading numbers on Real Clear Politics are also a good indicator of how things might go. Should be a dog fight headed to Tuesday, but delegate wise it may be pretty negligible in either direction and that of course benefits the leader - Obama.

Posted By: Dan Martin (Registered)  on March 01, 2008 at 02:20 PM

 
 
Kane, in answer to your question. Senator Clinton is continuing to campaign and ask for campaign CONTRIBUTIONS because she wants her $5 million back

Posted By: Sonny Shook (Guest)  on March 01, 2008 at 05:37 PM

 
 
Gracias for your explanation.

Posted By: David (Guest)  on March 01, 2008 at 10:08 PM

 
 
Obama wiprobably has to wait 8 yrs. to run again, & then might have to run vs. Obama's vice-president. Obama loses, she runs in 4 yrs. She is still running to help McCain win in Nov. by running negative ads and splitting the Dem Party. She can't win the nomination anymore, she can only
help McCain beat Obama.


Posted By: GN (Guest)  on March 01, 2008 at 10:16 PM

 
 
Real Clear Politics has new polling data out. Obama leads Clinton by 4 points in the Zogby tracking poll in Texas. Obama's early vote program has also been strong. Hillary moved from a 45-45 tie in Ohio to a 47-46 lead in Ohio according to Zogby as well. One poll has Hillary up by 16 points in OH but everything else has her leading from 1-7 points. The Insider Advantage poll in Texas is the only current poll that shows Hillary leading in TX, and it is fairly suspect due to how far off the polling group was in their projections for Iowa, Missouri and Wisconsin.

Posted By: Dan Martin (Registered)  on March 02, 2008 at 02:03 PM

 
 
Every time I hear the demographic split for the democratic canadates the Hispanic vote shocks me. For the longest time I thought Hispanic refered to people with national origins in Latin America. I guess Hispanic must also mean "mentally handicapped" or maybe it means, "Loves self serving politicians that have at no point have shown themselves to have a moral compass that would enable them to make decisions, as president, based on the shared core values, needs and interests of the citizens of the U.S." Never the less, for the first time in my life time, there is a viable hope for a canidate who is a true servant of the people and it is those who need him most that vote against him. It makes me feel less sorry for those American's who lost jobs due to Nafta and military families who made the ultimate sacrifice for no good reason. Why do these people ask for this? I wish some one could help me understand?

Posted By: Mark (Guest)  on March 05, 2008 at 02:22 PM

 
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