At Saddleback Church, Obama Fails to Get Back in the Saddle
Posted by Robert Zimmer on 08.16.2008
McCain Shines While Obama’s Magic Appears to Have Been Left on Vacation
On Saturday night, Senator Barack Obama and his rival for the presidency, Senator John McCain, both appeared at Pastor Rick Warren's Saddleback Church to discuss the intersection of government and policy with faith and values. Before a nationally televised audience, Pastor Warren quizzed Obama and McCain (separately) about personal failings and the failings of America; abortion; the definition of marriage; social policy; and the relationship of faith-based charitable organizations vis-à-vis the government.
This was Obama's first high-profile public appearance after his weeklong Hawaiian vacation. He appeared first and though apparently in good spirits and rested, Obama was curiously listless, uninspiring, and in some cases simply boring with his legalistic, impersonal responses to deeply personal, profound – and fair – questions from Pastor Warren. McCain, in contrast, was crisp, funny, relaxed, focused, and seemingly genuine. At 71, McCain's energy onstage easily eclipsed the sleepy, professorial manner of Obama. McCain was specific and personal in discussing ideas and himself; Obama droned on in generalized, boilerplate banalities that shed no light on the nature of the man speaking. McCain could barely wait for Warren to finish his questions before pouncing and demonstrating an ease in wrapping his mind around any topic; Obama stuttered haltingly through his hour, his detachment making him appear more like a merely above-average law professor. A clear moral center and a clear set of governing principles seemed to emerge organically from McCain, whereas one got the sense that Obama is more comfortable with spirituality and morality as an abstract, intellectual zone where there is no wrong or right, merely a variety of interesting arguments.
Democrats should be concerned, and Republicans encouraged, as Senator Obama has looked smaller and distracted ever since his highly successful trip to the Middle East and Europe. Obama had little gravitas tonight when the moment required it. McCain looked not only like a president, but a man whom you can admire even if you don't agree with him on everything. It is increasingly difficult to tell what Obama's campaign is about, besides itself and oh, yeah, some basic boilerplate Democratic stuff.
The Obama who showed up tonight is going to lose to the McCain that showed up tonight if Obama doesn't shake off his ennui and wake back up. Summer vacation is over for Obama, and for most Americans soon as well. The American public generally starts to pay closer attention to presidential elections after Labor Day, which means Obama's campaign has some time to recalibrate. The Obama campaign should be glad most people were watching the Olympics on Saturday night. It was one of Obama's worst nights and John McCain's best of the campaign.
K, why shouldn't Obama look at morality and spirituality as "an abstract, intellectual zone where there is no wrong or right, merely a variety of interesting arguments."? You can't say one person's beliefs on subjects like abortion, the definition of marriage etc... are right while another person's are wrong. Thats just ignorant.
And, quite frankly, why do presidential hopefuls have to answer to religious figureheads? Elected officials should look at the best interest of everyone, not just lead based on what the bible says is right.
And faith based charitable organizations should be looked at no different from any other charitable organization. Period.
Given some of the atrocities and blatant discrimination that has taken place across the globe in the name of religion, keep church as far away from state as possible, I say.
Posted By: Guest#2415 (Guest) on August 16, 2008 at 11:54 PM
So pretty much, Obama should have been like Lois Griffin in the episode where she ran for mayor?
"9/11 9/11 9/11!"
Posted By: Jamal (Registered) on August 16, 2008 at 11:55 PM
Were you watching the same broadcast as the rest of us? Obama came across as thoughful and inspiring. McCain thew out red meat to the base and said little of substance. Advantage: Obama.
After tonight, a lot of people will have a hard time believing the right-wing talking points about Obama.
Posted By: AwakeUnlikeYou (Guest) on August 17, 2008 at 12:04 AM
I'll admit that McCain got a lot of cheap pops, but he didn't think about his answers. He answered several questions before they were asked (Which makes me wonder about the "cone of silence" he was in) but his answers were so pandering it was laughable.
McCain did his stump speech routine, where Obama had a heartfelt, thought out conversation. Which registered better? Depends I suppose.
I wasn't impressed with McCain. He pandered too much for me. He named dropped Reagan several times, enforced WAR, WAR, WAR with many of his statements about more military his top advisors would be military, etc. His answer of 5 Million a year being "rich" pretty much sumed up everything he had to say about economics even if he was "joking". The war stories got old after a bit. I understand he was a POW but EVERY story surely can't relate to being a POW.
What would you do to fix the economy?
McCain: Well when I was in a POW camp I thought every night about this while beating beat with hot pokers.
It got old. Some of his stories were nice and made him a little more likeable, but "my friends" I'm tired of hearing the same ol.
Obama didn't hit a home run either. He didn't give as direct of answers as McCain, but on issues like abortion he can't. If he just said "I support abortion" he'd be demonized, whereas McCain can get away with "Life begins at conception, next question please".
Overall though, I'd call it a draw if anything. Obama was backed in a corner and never looked it, McCain stumped and pandered.
McCain probably excited his base some which he needed to do and Obama answered the tough questions in logical fashion which he needed to do.
Posted By: Poppycock (Guest) on August 17, 2008 at 01:36 AM
Couldn't disagree with you more, Robert. What Obama showed is that he is an intelligent, thoughtful human being who has thought deeply about the important issues. Sorry if that bored you. What McCain showed is that he's pretty much an idiot who's great at delivering the carbon copy response. Shocking that it played better than Obama in a megachurch, huh?
If you thought that Obama's perfectly clear statements that he's pro-choice,while keeping a focus on reducing abortions in general, pro-stem cell research on fetuses that are going to be discarded UNLESS adult stem cells prove just as viable, or that he has no problem affording the name marriage to gay civil unions were somehow equivocal, you must have been watching a different debate.
Hated the idea of this debate because it was in a church to a pastor. Even though it favored Obama because it showed how thoughtful he is, and even though it started with the pastor making one of the few intelligent points any kind of pundit has made in this campaign--that sometimes it's okay to flip flop when you receive new information that changes what you believed--it quickly devolved into issues Pastor Rick Warren must have known were on McCain's side, given the audience. But Obama didn't back down and answered every question clearly.
Feel reasonably confident America will justify Obama's faith in them, for speaking subtly about subtle issues rather than yelling bullet points, rather than agree with Zimmer.
Posted By: Andrew Tobolowsky (Registered) on August 17, 2008 at 01:59 AM
Obama came across listless and was not inspiring at all. I enjoyed hearing about the experience that McCain can offer to us as a President should. Obama simply will not make a good president because he does not have the experience to be the leader of the free world in the complex world we live in McCain does. Even if I do not agree with either of them completely, I would never vote for Obama because he does not have enough experience and it is scary to me.
Posted By: guest (Guest) on August 17, 2008 at 02:01 AM
Seems that Obama failed again at being genuine. This continues to show that he is not a leader but a panderer who is more concerned about being popular and being lead by public opinion instead of leading and making the hard decisions that can cause intense criticism and downright hate in the media. McCain shows that he is intelligent and honest and open about his intentions, McCain is not afraid to lead, he is not afraid to tell us what we need to hear instead of what we want to hear. He is not afraid to hurt our feelings and make us made in order to keep us safe and keep our country prosperous. I watched the interviews and am re-watching it now. The more I watch Obama the more I realize that he does not have a chance in destroying America.
Dr. Herman
Posted By: Dr. Herman (Guest) on August 17, 2008 at 03:40 AM
WHATEVER!!! Obama is WAY better than McSAME anyday.
Posted By: LawrenceNY (Guest) on August 17, 2008 at 07:06 AM
I really liked the format of this debate. The answer Obama gave as Above my pay grade was a surprise. It was a direct question to him personally as to when life starts and he was unwilling to answer it. I noticed on many of his answers when asked how he personally felt he took off with longwinded pro and con answers. For a man who is a lawyer, I know that he took a speech class and it did teach impromptu speaking. I also understand that impromptu speaking is not something every one can do well just as reading off a written speech is also something not every one can do well. I have been through speech class and know I was no good at delivering a written speech but when competing impromptu speaking was my strong point and therefore that is what I competed in. Obama's constant use of uha in delivering his answers was telling to me as this is one of the things you are stressed not to do when speaking. Bottom line Obama did not speak from his gut he spoke from his speeches and we still got no better picture of this man then we had before. It was not a judgment on where he stood on the issue as being wright or wrong but what he as a person had to say on the subject. When you know how you yourself feel on an issue you do not have to think about it you can clearly and consciously state it. My husband had an interesting comment after viewing it: It looked like the Nixon Kennedy debate in the 60's and Obama unfortunately looked like Nixon not the Kennedy he is trying to tell us so hard he is.
Posted By: Jace (Guest) on August 17, 2008 at 08:56 AM
home run article Robert... judging from responses it's clearly advantage McCain... most americans believe in God (or something) so to argue "true" separation of church and state is silly... and if most of the rest of the world had the "rule of law" and "property rights" Obama would be the ideal candidate but the world ain't like that... been there, done that and history says biggest mistake waiting to happen... advantage McCain
Posted By: strong lieutenant (Guest) on August 17, 2008 at 11:01 AM
Obama came across like a liar! He couldn't make eye contact and stuttered on the tough questions. My vote was up in the air up until this point. McCain was a straight talker and to the point. Son much so, that he answered the same questions that Obama answered in half the time because he was straight to the point. He was able to speak on anther half-hour of questioning because he was firm in his intial answer and didn't beat around the bush like Obama. I urge voters to pull the wool from over their eyes...stop playing party politics... vote for an honest president... and not let the mistake of the past dictate their vote for the future!
Posted By: Ben3211 (Guest) on August 18, 2008 at 12:09 AM
"I urge voters to pull the wool from over their eyes...stop playing party politics... vote for an honest president... and not let the mistake of the past dictate their vote for the future! "
So you're urging them to vote Obama then.
Posted By: Johnboy (Guest) on August 18, 2008 at 01:53 AM
STAY CURRENT