The Land of Lakes and Lizard People
Posted by J.D. Dunn on 11.22.2008
What Minnesota tells us about an outdated process.
Minnesota Public Radio is keeping track of some of the more interesting ballots being challenged in the statewide recount in the Senate race between incumbent Norm Coleman (R) and challengers Al Franken (D) and Dean Barkley (I).
Franken trailed Coleman by 215 votes going into the recount, but after two days of voting, Coleman's lead dropped to 136. Both candidates were initially conservative with their challenges, but, as often happens in recounts, one side saw that the other side was more aggressive in challenges and sought to catch up. The Minneapolis Star Tribune reported that Coleman was on pace to send more than 1,000 ballots to the canvassing board while Franken was on pace to send just 3/4 of that total. Franken's team has since stepped up their challenges.
Not surprisingly, many of the challenges seem a bit silly, but then the election process as a whole seems silly when you start looking at the ballots. One ballot shows a darkened circle for Franken but the name "Lizard People" written in the write-in section. Even more disturbingly, someone wrote in the name of possible pathological liar Michelle Bachman. "Lizard People" doesn't seem so bad after that.
But the list of challenged ballots isn't just limited to ones with reptilian write-ins. Franken is challenging one with a fingerprint on it as having "personally identifiable information" that disqualifies it. Coleman is challenging one that has darkened circles for both he and Franken but has an "X" through Coleman's name. I guess "X" marks the spot as far as Coleman is concerned.
All of this seems childish and inane for a nation that prides itself on being the leader of the free world and one of the global leaders in advanced technology. If I can vote for such important questions as which Hollywood diva is hotter, Scarlett Johansen or Megan Fox, online, then why not the President of the United States? (There is no wrong answer when choosing between Scarly Jo and Megan Fox, by the way.)
I would propose a fairly simple process. The election commission sends out PINs (just as they do now), which gives you access to a webpage, not unlike the FAFSA. You can either fill it out on your home computer, or if you don't have one, travel to your nearest polling place and fill it out. No touch screens, just point-and-click. You print a copy and mail/hand it to the election worker, and off you go. The system has a vote with your PIN on it, and the election worker has a paper trail with no smudges, "X"s, hanging chads, dimpled chads, arrows, or partially darkened circles.
We need a system consistent with the millennium we're living in, and if the many highly publicized recounts over the years prove anything, it's that the archaic system in place reduces us to arguing over whether or not someone really intended to vote for a lizard person – or Pat Buchanan.
Update:236.com has a hilarious look at some "contested" ballots. Also, the Franken campaign now claims to be within double digits.
JD,
In all fairness to MN, their optical scan system is a pretty good one overall. They run your ballot through before you leave to make sure it won't get rejected. Also, they have extras so if you screw up you can ask for a new ballot to fill out.
You'd think with the amount of standardized tests that people take in school they'd know how to fill in a damn bubble.
And touchscreens rock... I've used them in TN and GA and never had a problem...
Posted By: Chris Connolly (Registered) on November 22, 2008 at 04:02 AM
We have touchscreens in NC, simple and easy and there's flyers all over the place telling you how to vote, only a fool could screw up a touchscreen ballot.
Posted By: Guest#6887 (Guest) on November 22, 2008 at 09:13 AM
Oh, it's not just Minnesota, but MN is in the spotlight now just as Florida was eight years ago. I think we have this problem with not trusting technology when really, it could solve a lot of these problems.
Not only do you solve the problem of missed optical scans (ink bleeding through, over votes, etc.), it's instant and indentifiable with the PIN.
As we're seeing in MN, whether a vote counts or not is becoming politicized, and it really shouldn't be that way.
Posted By: J.D. Dunn (Registered) on November 22, 2008 at 09:22 AM
Amen man! Catch these suckas up to speed with the real world :)
Posted By: James (Registered) (Guest) on November 22, 2008 at 10:26 AM
Nevada has a touch screen, that also prints off a paper ballot to create a paper trail.
Posted By: Blah (Guest) on November 22, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Touchscreens are fine, but a simple point-and-click works better, especially if a screen is too sensitive, not sensitive enough, or has a long delay between screens. All of those can cause problems.
And yes, always save your receipt.
Posted By: J.D. Dunn (Registered) on November 22, 2008 at 12:51 PM
Just for the sake of argument; what good is a receipt if there's not a final 'end-of-day' tally paperwork that could confirm it? What would the public do if there was suspicion of nefarious intentions regarding the machines - bring in their receipts?
Posted By: Bisch (Guest) on November 22, 2008 at 01:45 PM
If you had a printed paper ballot with a PIN that matched your ID, that would be as good as any system we have now.
Posted By: J.D. Dunn (Registered) on November 22, 2008 at 02:25 PM
at Bisch,
Voters can't keep them. The paper receipt is hidden behind a glass wall where voters confirm they voted for the right person. These paper ballots are used in case there is a computer problem or a recount.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5937115/ Four year old story but the same machines were used.
1444 days and counting.
Yes we can.
Posted By: Blah (Guest) on November 22, 2008 at 02:38 PM
In St. Louis City and St.Louis County, voters had their choice between a ballot similar to absentee ballot or touch screen. I used the touch screen and was in and out withing twenty minutes. (Also fairly certain I caught a cold from the touch screen.)
The touch screen were to replace the existing punch card system that had been in use for at least forty years. As a result, each paper ballot had to be marked with a pen by hand. Voters kept accidentally walking-off with the pens. By noon they had four pens remaining and taped them to polling booths.
My experience was different than many voters who waited six to eight hours to vote in North St. Louis and North St. Louis County.
As part of ACORN's grass roots voter mobilization program, they advised all voters to only use antiquated paper ballot. Widespread fear of the "glowing voting booth" caused day-long delays at the ballot. You can see a paper ballot line extending a full city block with only a hand-full at the touch screen.
Epic stupidity on display. The only difference between touch screen and punch card is how the card is punched.
ACORN wasted everyone's time simply because they fear efficiency, innovation and transparency. I guess if they are paying you for a full day's sloth they expect a full day's sloth.
Story time is over. Thank you for your time.
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on November 22, 2008 at 04:21 PM
Counting voting becoming political. Epic. Isn't the process of voting congenitally, inherently and exclusively political?
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on November 22, 2008 at 04:23 PM
Aren't the touch screens the ones that the vote totals are easily tampered with via laptop/central tabulator? And with no paper trail or way of processing a recount? We had a few precincts that had these machines and had some huge, frequent malfunctions causing delays in voting times -- seems like an unnecessary tech complication with little upside. No thanks.
Also, will MN be having a run-off election between the two front-runners and no third party at some point(if the lead continues to be by such a slim margin as 90 votes either way)? Seems like the fairest way to go about it, regardless of who it would potentially benefit.
Posted By: UkraineNotWeak (Registered) on November 22, 2008 at 04:44 PM
Thanks to Dunn and Blah for answering my questions.
Also, I've been waiting weeks for someone to find a reason to bash ACORN again. So thank you, Adm.
Posted By: Bisch (Guest) on November 22, 2008 at 06:22 PM
That problems you site have not been the experience of using touch screens in St. Louis. Each ballot is printed in hard copy in real time as you use touch screen. The paper ballot is then put in ballot box so that you have redundant systems: one electronic for efficiency and one paper for visibility.
Why would paper ballots be better at mitigating fraud especially in relation to punch cards or touchscreens?
If the people want to stand in line for the paper ballot that is fine by me. If ACORN wants to unnecessarily scare voters in St. Louis City and County that touch screen is fraudulent in the absence of any evidence of fraud in using system, that is fine with me too.
If you do not believe in the institutions of democracy, there isn't a voting technology or process that will mitigate your paranoia.
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on November 22, 2008 at 06:58 PM
Your Welcome Bisch, I always aim to please by providing you with an opportunity to take the passive aggressive personal shot.
My comment about ACORN is not a reason to bash ACORN, it was a factual account of what I witnessed.
The topic was voting methods, paper versus plastic. That is how the debate was settled in St. Louis.
Again your welcome, Bisch.
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on November 22, 2008 at 07:03 PM
there is no run-off law in MN, so whoever wins the recount wins the seat.
Posted By: Chris Connolly (Registered) on November 22, 2008 at 07:06 PM
"Isn't the process of voting congenitally, inherently and exclusively political?"
The process of voting, not the process of counting.
"there is no run-off law in MN, so whoever wins the recount wins the seat."
Although, if it's close enough and with enough disputed ballots, there could be a revote.
Posted By: J.D. Dunn (Registered) on November 22, 2008 at 10:08 PM
Scarlett Johansen ain't got shit on Megan Fox.
Posted By: The Truf! (Guest) on November 22, 2008 at 11:22 PM
With all the voter fraud going around how did this happen "And touchscreens rock... I've used them in TN and GA and never had a problem... " how many states did you vote in????
Plus New York's Lever machines are the best no need for technology the only thing that sucks is 80 year old inspectors have trouble with them.
Posted By: Matt (Guest) on November 23, 2008 at 12:16 AM
Lived in both states... never voted in both in the same election
Posted By: Chris Connolly (Registered) on November 23, 2008 at 11:54 AM
The process of counting votes not political? Are you serious?
If the process of counting votes is not political, why do both parties spend so much time in Court on issues concerning to count or not count a particular ballot?
Come on.
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on November 24, 2008 at 12:32 PM
In all fairness, I pointed out that Sarah Palin might be a lizard person months ago. It's certainly possible that this was the intention.
Posted By: Andrew Tobolowsky (Registered) on November 25, 2008 at 07:30 PM