The Neverending Folly That is the Middle East
Posted by Dave Schilling on 12.30.2008
If ever there was a misnomer in the foreign policy world, this would be it.
I think it's time to stop calling what is going on in Israel, a "peace process." The notion of peace is diametrically opposed to what we are seeing come out of Gaza right now. I'm no bleeding heart with a soft spot for terrorists, but an air campaign against targets that hide amongst civilians is not an olive branch in any language. It's war. Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak even admits it. This is war with Hamas. Israel has once again chosen the path of most resistance. For a nation with such an unending history of bloodshed and misery, you'd think their leaders would be slightly less trigger happy.
Of course, this neverending struggle doesn't even come close to being logical. Hamas has no hope of victory, yet they show no interest in peace. They lob rockets into disputed territory. They send suicide bombers into shopping malls and town squares. They have been doing this for decades, and every dead Israeli creates another million of them who want nothing more than to return the favor. Israel will never disappear as a nation as long as they have a friend in the United States. We give them money, weapons and political cover in the United Nations. It doesn't matter who the president is, Democrat or Republican. All that added might will come to bear on Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah or anyone else who seeks to challenge Israeli supremacy in the region. Israeli strength only makes the Arab world want to sharpen its knives more. If your head is starting to hurt and you want to jump out the nearest window, you are probably qualified to be a member of the U.S. State Department. They have as many new solutions as you do.
This is trite to say, but the most cliched statements can some times be the truest. There can be no peace process without people in power in the U.S., Israel and the Palestinian Territories who actually want peace. Make no mistake about it, this war in Gaza is happening now because there's an election coming up. Barak and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni both know that the only way for either one of them to beat Likud Party head Benjamin Netanyahu for Prime Minister is to wag the dog a little bit. Israelis are understandably scared. A global recession means fewer tourists and a gloomy economy for the country. The ongoing internal struggle between Hamas and Fatah makes it even harder to negotiate. The rocket attacks continued despite the cease fire. The current prime minister is a lame duck weighed down by scandal. Israel wants a strongman leader, and that has buoyed the hawkish Netanyahu. War is good business in Israel because it paradoxically makes Israelis feel safer. The truth is they have never been in more danger. A ground war is said to be inevitable. With a ground war comes suicide bombings, with bombers coming in through the pourous border with Egypt. Hamas continues to win the PR battle by hiding their leaders with ease and making sure Israel kills plenty of their civilians. Arab dictatorships like Iran do their job by fomenting aggression with calls for further intifada. It's a story older than Israel itself.
I'm a Jew, though a non-religious one. I have historically supported Israel throughout my adolescent and college years. As a true, tax-paying adult, I think it's time to rethink that stance. The many years of American Jews being staunch advocates for Israel's "right to protect itself" have produced false hope and countless dead bodies on both sides. As yet another bloody chapter in this "peace process" begins, it's time for all of us to stand up and demand Israel and the Palestinians actually seek peace rather than killing those who do.
"There can be no peace process without people in power in the U.S., Israel and the Palestinian Territories who actually want peace."
There have been plenty of leaders on both sides who were willing to make concessions and strive towards peace, the problem is that these leaders generally get murdered, and by their own people.
As for your stance on rethinking our backing of Israel, what exactly are you proposing the United States do? Just drop their alliance with Israel because theres too much fighting on both sides? If Israel loses the US, there is no more Israel. Simple as that.
Posted By: mike (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 01:33 AM
People said the same thing in 1930s Germany Dave.Hamas is a terror group plain and simple.Alot of the muslim world want the jews exterminated.Has nothing to do with America and it can not be negotiated with.Wake up.
Posted By: Fred (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 01:38 AM
"I'm a Jew, though a non-religious one."
Uh, isn't being a Jew part of being Jewish...it's a religion.
That's like me saying "I'm a catholic, but I don't believe in Christ."
I think you're fucking stupid.
Another American willing to bash America for all the world's problems.
It used to be the cool thing, now it's sad. Fuck off dick wad, if you think you're so smart and capable go to Israel and broker a peace.
Those savages in Hamas will have your head in a basket before you say "hello" just for being Jewish.
Posted By: The Spook (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 01:59 AM
I fell asleep reading this
blame-America garbage, seriously is this what we really need to read? How about a post that believes in America and its pros instead of every little con that they can find, it would help the credibility of this section at least a little bit?
Posted By: Jumping jack (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 02:08 AM
I fell asleep reading this
blame-America garbage, seriously is this what we really need to read? How about a post that believes in America and its pros instead of every little con that they can find, it would help the credibility of this section at least a little bit?
I agree, that would help some, instead of this anti-American dribble.
Posted By: NoobJBL (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 02:11 AM
Blaming Israel and looking past the terrorists actions of scumbags like Hamas is really sad.I pray no one as stupid as you is making decisions involving this conflict.Of course its Americas fault crap will probably be popular on this site.LAME.
Posted By: John (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 02:17 AM
A non practicing american tax paying jew who sypathizes with muslim terrorists and blames the US and Israel.You really are a self hating,miserable person aren't you?
Posted By: Simon (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 02:23 AM
Being Jewish isn't just a religion... is an ethnicity. And the true fact is that in order for peace to come about Israel just has to come about and say that they are willing to give up land for peace... how greedy of a nation do you have to be?
Posted By: Guest#7644 (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 02:27 AM
in response to "The Spook" being Jewish and Catholic has a lot of cultural ties, hell I'm a "Catholic", but I can't bear the shit that comes out of the pope's mouth
People that seriously think Israel is going to cease to exist without America's support, are more dellusional than the backward-ass Islamic terrorists. The US needs to be an unbiased mediator, it obviously can't run away from the problem, but they need to work with the Palestinian Authorities to oust Fatah and Hamas from their lands.
Posted By: Guest#2731 (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 02:57 AM
Dave, Iranians are not Arabs - this is very important to note when discussing the Middle East!
Posted By: GQUK (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 06:59 AM
As a Christian, I hate to see any lives lost. Having said that, Israel has every right to defend herself. If that means turning Hamas into a parking lot, so be it. And Israel doesn't need the USA, they have God's favor.
Posted By: Anderson (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 07:41 AM
Hamas is at the center of this conflict. When they announced a ceasefire, all things went quiet. As soon as they decided to stop the ceasefire, the rockets began launching immediately. It is only when the Palestinians, and Muslims in general get tired of there own leaders perpetuating war, will peace finally take hold. That and mothers run out of children to send off to their deaths...
Posted By: Mikel (Registered) on December 30, 2008 at 09:09 AM
Being Jewish isn't just a religion... is an ethnicity.
Posted By: Guest#7644 (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 02:27 AM
Yeah right. I have a degree in Biological Anthropology. Being a Jew is not an "ethnicity".
You can convert to the religion of Judaism, but you can't convert to being black. You can't decide to become Asian...
Jewish people think that it's an ethnicity since the holocaust. But it's not. It's a religion and that defines their culture.
Has nothing to do with ethnicity.
The same that being a Muslim has nothing to do with being Arab, Iraqi, Iranian, Persian or any other category that defines a person by their place of birth.
An American born a by two Jewish parents, and decides to convert to something else or stop practicing his religion is not a Jew. Get it?
If the writer had said he was Israeli but does not support the Israeli government, then fine, that makes sense.
But to say that you're Jewish and don't practice Judaism, or I'm a Christian that does not believe in Christ is fucking stupid.
It's the whole fucking point of the religion.
But most of you people are illogical liberal fuck-tards with shit for brains, so fuck you if you don't understand.
I'm sick and tired of trying to convince idiots that just because something is accepted by a bunch of morons still doesn’t make it correct
.
Posted By: The Spook (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 10:25 AM
"I'm sick and tired of trying to convince idiots that just because something is accepted by a bunch of morons still doesn’t make it correct."
Gosh...such a burden you put on yourself. Those of us "morons" really appreciate all your help!
By the way, the vast majority of Jews don't see themselves as an ethnicity so much as a cultural heritage. Religion is a large part of it, but it's not the whole thing. Of course, having been raised in a religious family, having a bar mitzvah, having BEEN to Israel and still attending the occassional Shabbat service hardly makes me an expert. I'd much rather defer to all of you on this.
Posted By: Dave Schilling (Registered) on December 30, 2008 at 11:49 AM
While I really don't want to put my foot into the Israel-Palestine quagmire and sympathize with Anderson more than anyone else, just a word on Jewish ethnicity. I also have me a degree, incidentally.
It's not as straightforward as you say Spook, although I certainly appreciate the idea that Judaism's not a race in the sense that black is a race. However, the name itself, Judaism, comes not from the name of the god or the religion (as Christianity, or Islam), but from a place. Judah, Judea. Many of Judaism's laws, back when they were paid attention to, were meant to safeguard Jewish ethnicity. Kosher and so on was meant to keep the Jews a separate people. That's not a part of our heritage I'm particularly happy with as it has a kind of tinge of racism to it, but it's nevertheless true.
Moreover, you can't force a people to live separately in ghettos, to be legally unable to intermarry, to have so few careers open for them, legally, as has been the case for the Jews throughout history, and then refuse to call them separate in any way. They are separate because they've always been separate--forced to be. If, now they're no longer separate because it's the modern world, you still have to admit some vestiges of this separatism lingers on in our heritage. What are the jews genetically, anyway? Are the Arabs white? Because, as Semites, genetically we have more in common with them than the rest of you.
Biologically, anthropologically, they are no more different from white folks than Native Americans are, this is true, and perhaps a good deal less considering there was ultimately a lot of western European intermarriage. But to deny that culturally Judaism has its OWN cultural mores and OWN identity which is not beholden to white identity or American identity is just specious. Of course they do. Someone tried to kill them wholesale sixty years ago, and HE thought they were a race.
Again, as a term, Judaism, coming from the name of the country, is more similar to Persian than to Christian since Christian comes from Christ. There are even differences genetically. There are certainly cultural value differences--something like 90% of Jews go to college, regardless of circumstance.
Jewish people don't think they're an ethnicity since the Holocaust, they think they're an ethnicity from way, way before the holocaust, when they were forcedt o live as if part of a separate culture, and when they CHOSE to live because of their rules as part of a separate culture.
The "Old Testament" is not filled with laws on how to be a Jew it is filled with laws on how to live in the country of Judea. Laws for the Polis, nothing to do with God. Ethnicity is a hard term, but Jews do score a lot of points on the scale.
Posted By: Andrew Tobolowsky (Registered) on December 30, 2008 at 11:53 AM
"somebody needs a history lesson...There have been plenty of leaders on both sides who were willing to make concessions and strive towards peace, the problem is that these leaders generally get murdered, and by their own people."
I suggest you re-read my last sentence before telling me I need a history lesson, Mike.
Also, someone mentioned Iranians not being Arabs. That IS an important distinction, to point out they are Persian, but in terms of the Israeli-Palestinian issue, they side with their fellow Muslims.
Posted By: Dave Schilling (Registered) on December 30, 2008 at 12:03 PM
for andrew tabolowsky: Jewish people were not forced to be separate, their whole basis is that they are God's chosen people, they WANT to be different from others, thats why there is and has been so much anti-semitism throughout history, other cultures and religions view Jewish people as thinking that God believes theyre better than every other person on the planet. Now I firmly am not Anti-semetic and do not believe that Jewish people think theyre better than other people, but I can see where anti-semites get their ideas. I like looking at the historical perspective of things.
As for people thinking being Jewish is just a religion, its both a religion and an ethnicity.
for Guest#7644: you said "And the true fact is that in order for peace to come about Israel just has to come about and say that they are willing to give up land for peace... how greedy of a nation do you have to be?"
If you actually did your homework and knew anything Israel has indeed given up land to give to the palestinians, what do you think the Gaza Strip is? The Gaza strip was under Israeli control from 1967 to 1994 and the Israelis, as part of the Oslo accords, gave the palestinians the Gaza strip. Read a history book before you spout out ignorant garbage.
Posted By: mike (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 12:24 PM
"If you actually did your homework and knew anything Israel has indeed given up land to give to the palestinians, what do you think the Gaza Strip is? The Gaza strip was under Israeli control from 1967 to 1994 and the Israelis, as part of the Oslo accords, gave the palestinians the Gaza strip. Read a history book before you spout out ignorant garbage."
Also, Israel's return of the Sinai to Egypt was a big part of their peace treaty.
Historically, Israel has been willing to trade land for peace. The hard part of their negotiations with the PA is that Fatah wants East Jerusalem. Without that on the table, I think we'd have had a deal by now. Jerusalem is the most divisive aspect of the negotiations, in my mind. To the mainstream Israeli, Gaza and the West Bank are worthless compared to the symbolic importance of Jerusalem.
Posted By: Dave Schilling (Registered) on December 30, 2008 at 12:30 PM
I was going to post something, but the Spook said it all
Posted By: dan man (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 01:00 PM
America doesn't lead the "free world" any longer, so why do we keep looking to America for leadership?
Isn't there another country that is currently better suited to help lead the middle-east to peace and freedom? Like China, Russia, India or Venezuela?
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 01:11 PM
That was one of the worst written articles I have ever read on this website.All the discussion on the comments has come down to is Isreal needs to give more land and Schilling is jewish.....sort of.Go hang with Hamas and see if they share your San Francisco St. values .
Posted By: Mannybeing Manny (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 01:25 PM
What the Jews are starting another war?
Who would have thunk it!
This planet will never learn from it's history.
Spoiler alert: This starts a major war in the region, and the Israeli people hold no desire to listen to anyone to stop it. This dominos across the middle east and Iran finally drops the bomb on Israel in the spring of 2010. Your sad world get wrapped up into the religous upheaval and kills 2/3 of your worlds population in the process. "Satan laughing spreads it's wings....Oh Lord ya!"
Posted By: Darklord of Earth (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 01:28 PM
Only one side is willing to kill themselves because killing the other is more valuable to them than life itself. It's a clear demonstration of group insanity and such people cannot be successfully negotiated with. The goal of Hamas and other such groups is the extinction of Jews, nothing less. They love to kill and will never, ever stop. It's up to the Palestinian people to decide that lunacy and genocide are not what they stand for and bring down terrorists themselves. Stop harboring them, stop allowing their children to be recruited, and start fighting them directly. It is THEIR responsibility to end what's being cultivated in their own back yard, not the US acting as world police.
Posted By: Shockmaster (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 02:58 PM
I think its impotent to have some context to this situation. All the civilians(on both sides, Palestinian and Israeli) really don't want war, or conflict, they just want to get along. There are the extremes(on both ends, which historically the west ans Israel has been slow to admit to). But think about where we are getting our information and interviews from. Mostly the Israeli Government, and mostly Hamas(because to a degree Fatah is unimportant after being ejected from Gaza Strip by Hamas). when have we ever heard what the citizens who haven't had their families just blown up by the opposing side and just want revenge. This entire conflict is fueled through misconceptions and fear. If the extremists on both sides who want nothing but the annihilation of each other were to cease to be in power, a peaceful solution would be found within a year. Unfortunately, support from the outside world is just as clouded in false information or destabilizing political agreements(IE Iran and the United States) as it is from within the two nations at war. To a extremely small degree, it mirrors north/south korea or china/taiwan. which is to say if both sides got rid of their egos and made some concessions instead of throwing their feelings of entitlement on the bargaining table, the situation and conflict would cease to exist. And thats something that no political figure would ever have the balls to openly admit
Posted By: Guest#9177 (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 03:22 PM
I'm 24 years old and i still cannot understand why the americans are so obsessed,enamored with israel.Personally i don't love or hate israel,palestine,usa,italy or india.Based on their actions I love or hate some people of all countries.But i cannot understand that you justify every action that israeli politicians do.I get the sense reading the comments above that palestines deserve to die(probably because they are muslims).I cannot understand why you justify actions like the bombing of universities and schools.Just because the israeli army is commiting these actions?These are horrible no matter which side commits them.
How would you feel if iraqis were going to bomb an american university?would you think they are justified,because of the american invasion of iraq?If someone believes that Bush is a terrorist or a war criminal,as he more or less is responsible for the death of millions of people(iraqis and americans),this gives him the right to destroy the whole washington,dc?
Of course the actions of hamas are the same atrocious as israel's.I cannot understand how killing civilians in a restaurant or bombing the cities near gaza helps their cause.
The fact is that hamas is regarded by almost all the countries outside middle east as a terrorist organisation.
But what about the elected israeli government?No one says they are terrorists,but act as terrorists.What is the difference between the bombings that lead to the death of so many people in palestine and in israel?There are some which i am willing to discuss,but there is a big similarity:BLOOD.And most of the dead from both sides are innocent people.
Posted By: Aristotelis (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 03:43 PM
Also, whats it going to look like to Palestinians when Hamas is blown to bits then Fatah comes in right after and says, hey whats up? puppet is going to be the world of the day in Gaza
Posted By: Guest#0688 (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 03:55 PM
If you don't see the difference between civilians getting caught in the crossfire because of where hamas stages their attacks from and the deliberate targeting of civilians on buses, etc. then you are an idiot. It's not like the IDF is carpet bombing Gaza.
Posted By: Chris Connolly (Registered) on December 30, 2008 at 04:15 PM
Chris Conolloy is right. There is a MAJOR difference between Israel and the various arms of the Palestinian Authority. Israel is NOT perfect, but they are leaps and bounds better at respecting basic human rights than the PA.
Posted By: Dave Schilling (Registered) on December 30, 2008 at 04:51 PM
Tell me Chris,hamas is everywhere around palestine?in universities and schools?If my neighbour would be a terrorist,that would mean that i would be a target also?Yes indeed i do believe that the IDF is carpet bombing Gaza.
I saw in a newspaper a yesterday's report that there are at least 21 dead children.I suppose the number is higher today.Were they terrorists?Are you happy with their death or you just don't care because these children were palestines?
Posted By: Aristotelis (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 04:56 PM
i forgot to mention that the israeli forces bullied and almost sank a ship with food and medicines,because they had 'information' that its passengers were terrorists...
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/30/gaza.aid.boat/index.html
Posted By: Aristotelis (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 05:00 PM
Since they ran Fatah out, Hamas IS everywhere in the Gaza Strip.
Well when your neighbor's house gets hit with an IDF missile because he's launching rockets from his roof, you may get hit with what is left of his house. That's not targeting you, that's the reality of military action.
Hamas and the rest of their buddies are notorious for launching their attacks from places where any IDF response would result in a high number of civilian casualties, especially children.
I don't like seeing kids killed, that's part of the reason I want groups like Hamas wiped off the face of the planet.
If the IDF wanted to carpet bomb Gaza, this whole thing would have been over yesterday at the latest. Instead, they have been trying to minimize the collateral damage and have even been sending in aid trucks to help innocent civilians.
As for that relief boat, it was atempting to violate the Israeli blockade and refused to identify itself. It got what it deserved. And considering it was aid intended for Hamas specifically, any Americans involved in that operation should get charged with attempting to provide material support for terrorist groups.
Posted By: Chris Connolly (Registered) on December 30, 2008 at 06:14 PM
The relief boat was in international waters,so the israeli forces had no right to ask for identification and block the boat's route.
It was NOT intended for Hamas specifically,but for the victims of the attacks in Gaza.The relief boat started from Larnaca,a city in the free side of cyprus,and one member of the crew was a greekcypriot(moderate right) member of the european parliament.
In fact the greekcypriot government demanded an apology by the israeli government about that incident.
So i guess i didn't know that greekcypriots support terrorists...
Posted By: Aristotelis (Guest) on December 30, 2008 at 07:07 PM
I'm an Orthodox Israeli Jew.
Orthodox converts (the only legitimate converts) are required only to keep Torah according to Orthodox Halakhah. There is no requirement for the convert, or any other Jew, to like gefilte fish (a European, not uniquely Jewish, ethnicity) or Eastern European music or Germanized-Hebrew (Yiddish) or any other of element of ethnicity or culture. Indeed, many Jews of Middle Eastern descent gag at elements of European ethnicity and their culture is quite distinct and different from Ashkenazi Jews. The notion of Jewish ethnicity or culture generally refers to an anti-Mizrakhi arrogance on the part of Ashkenazi Jews.
Torah according to Halakhah, alone, defines the legitimate Jew and Judaism. Only insofar as Torah interpreted according to Halakhah is considered an ethnicity or culture, can either be intrinsic to the definition or identity of a Jew or the Jewish people. Facts intractably contradict your assertion: converts retain their -original- ethnicity and culture except as it might contradict Torah as interpreted according to Halakhah. Today's Jewish people reflect a myriad of ethnicities and cultures.
As for Hitler's definition, he was Hitler, moron. Hitler does NOT define a Jew or Judaism.
As for Mr. Tabolowsky's assertion that Jews are named after Judah/Judea, that's so uninformed it's ludicrous. Where do you think Judah/Judea got its name??? First, it was Yehudah. The name was Hellenized by Christians to "Judah" and "Judea." The region was named after Yehudah who was one of the 12 sons of Yaaqov / Yisraeil and patriarch of his tribe: Yehudah, that settled in that region.
As for "Judaism's laws, back when they were paid attention to..." that tells me that while you may, indeed, be a Semite (Edomite), you are NOT at all a knowledgeable Jew. "Judaism's laws" and "kosher" are Torah according to Orthodox Halakhah and Orthodox Jews all over the world still "pay attention" to them and do our utmost to keep Torah according to Halakhah. Please don't publish disinformation that gives the world false images of Judaism when you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Mr. Tablowsky's assertions about Torah are as ignorant as I've ever heard expressed by any gentile.
As for another's assertion that the Jews "left" "Palestine" that is false. Jews were forcibly expelled from their native homeland by Roman occupiers with the result that neighboring Arabs and others moved in and squatted on the Jews' homeland.
Posted By: Spook1 (the original) (Guest) on December 31, 2008 at 04:28 AM
Israel bombing that university with some HAMAS ties (yet full of civilians) is on par with alqaeda slamming a plane full of civilians into the Pentagon. So what if there was a large number of combatant targets present? We are not Maoist China (or alqaeda) and we don't believe in "breaking a few eggs" to get what we want. If you truly believe Chris, that every square inch of Gaza is teeming with Hamas militants, then you make less sense than Palestinian suicide bombers. Not all Gazans are militants and legitimate targets. But at least there is a (morally wrong but logically correct) assertion that all israelis have been, presently are or will one day become members of the IDF. This board is crawling with racist neocon crusaders and Zionists supporting ethnic cleansing. Israel is clearly using terrorism against the civilians in Gaza to get them to turn against their duly elected (albeit terrorist) government. Open your eyes. Once again Chris you make me want to puke. Hahaha. Sorry I have to match the level of vitriol that everyone else is spewing. Or is it possible for the world to take it down a notch??
Posted By: disinterested observer (Guest) on December 31, 2008 at 05:41 AM
The majority of those killed have been MILITANTS. They purposely conduct their activities in areas where there is a high concentration of innocents. These people LOVE when children die because they can put it on the tv and make look Israel bad, forcing Israel to stop protecting itself and then they can go back to dropping missiles on Israel settlements every day that the media ignores and no one cares about or condemns.
Posted By: Heartbrand (Guest) on December 31, 2008 at 10:42 AM
I guess I'm just confused. What would you people have Israel do? Arabs want Israel wiped off the face of the map because of their religious beliefs. There's no negotiating with them, see 48, 67, 73, all of history, etc. Hamas shell israeli cities EVERY day. Just because the press doesn't speak about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. So are they supposed to shrug their shoulders, hug the palestianians and continue the "truce"?
Posted By: Heartbrand (Guest) on December 31, 2008 at 10:48 AM
The press didn't say much anything about the rocketfire, because a grand total of one Israeli died. Big whoop. It's not a good thing but it's nothing like the war crimes and killing spree that the israeli government retaliates with. Here's a suggestion for what Israel can do, stop grabbing palestinian land and refrain from dragging us into world wars everytime a single Israeli gets killed. I support Israels right to exist, I don't support the Israeli attitude that one Israeli is worth 500 "regular people" and another $100 million in military aid. Especially when I'm sure israels lobby helped push our economy and our soldiers into this Iraq shit. Israel imagines itself to be David and the USA to be merely it's personal slingshot. I wish that America's Jewry (especially those in the House and the Senate) would put America's interests first for once.
Posted By: disinterested observer (Guest) on December 31, 2008 at 02:47 PM
You know talks of "peace" have been ongoing for years. It simply will not work because Hamas wants Israel dead and gone.
Israel's attacks will FINALLY solve this problem by turning hamas into rubble. Only then will there be a new palestine that would want peace.
This is part of the war on terror and I whole heartedly support Israel's effort to make the world a better place
Posted By: hhhh (Guest) on January 02, 2009 at 04:37 AM
"Israel's attacks will FINALLY solve this problem by turning hamas into rubble. Only then will there be a new palestine that would want peace."
Erm... are you sure about that? Because if some nation bombed my country, killed my family, and destroyed my way of life, that'd probably piss me off.
Posted By: Guest#8188 (Guest) on January 05, 2009 at 09:55 AM
STAY CURRENT