Nah, I'm just joshin' ya. I know I've got a reputation in these parts for rabid liberalism but now that the election's over. I'm a moderate by trade, but my thing is, I'm not a moderate for the sake of moderacy—I think things can be good or bad. However, I am somewhat predisposed to seeing both sides of a thing, SOME of the time. In other words I fell into moderation and can at my own whim fall out of it. In the case of the election, once a very old man with a history of serious health problems DID select Sarah Palin as his VP candidate, I was convinced that that situation had the makings of a national disaster. In this I was not alone even among Republicans. And if I think the Republican party is overly exclusive, this has been echoed by pretty much every major Republican over the last year.
Not that you came here for an apologia. Since this is a forum, not a newspaper, I feel we've gotten to know one another a bit—and I only wanted to say, I am not healed, I will probably be backsliding, but when I can I will give a nod of the head in what I do not consider so much the other direction as some may believe about me. So be it. Neither my objectivity nor subjectivity is on purpose. You are my brothers, sisters, and my deadly foes. Amen.
Now: One thing the Bush Administration has done really well is protect America. Since September 11th there has not been a single terrorist attack on the United States. We are now in our eighth year from then, and there is simply no way there has not been a concerted effort. I believe that the Bush administration has pursued policies which make the world MORE dangerous—bringing Iran and Iraq closer together, swelling the ranks of terrorists by giving the appearance of just cause to anti-American appeals—unless you think our campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan have never harmed a civilian.
But if so, really, that just tells you how good they are.
I don't know how they've done it, and I expect no one does and won't for 50 years until some 90 year old CIA guy writes a tell-all. And that's something Obama has to be keenly aware of. He has to gain the trust of the intelligence guys, he has to find out how they can keep doing what they're doing without affording the excesses of Guantanamo. That's why it made me feel fairly uncomfortable to see the muted reaction to his intelligence pick among people in the know. I appreciate the need to change the culture of Washington, but we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Here is my major concern even beyond that: that compassion and humanity have, shall we say, an expiration date. America is rightly against torture and internment. Guantanamo should never have happened, and I don't say that because I don't recognize that some people should be thrown in deep, dark holes and never have to see the light of day. But there must be some transparency. If we need to create some kind of expedient court which can at least dictate that someone is credibly guilty and can at least be detained while we further ascertain how guilty, so be it. But we cannot simply shut people away who we think might be guilty, and give them no chance to prove their innocence.
But, remember, it has been over seven years since September 11th. It's easy to be loud about how the United States doesn't torture, the United States pays attention to due process right now. Here's a very plausible scenario: Obama closes Guantanamo, as he almost certainly will, and then we have a terrorist attack. Who knows if Bush's plans would have been enough to stop it? But I guarantee you, all of a sudden, public opinion is a little bit hazier about whether or not they'd mind a Guantanamo. It does keep us safe. The question is the cost.
We need to keep our hands cleaner than they have been. There is absolutely no question about that. The Patriot Act is a no go, the torture,etc. We can't sacrifice so much of ourselves for safety. Obama needs to find a place in between, but as much as he'd like to, he can't give up to much. No torture, due process. But….
Because it is necessary not only to America's body, but to her soul, that we find a medium which still keeps us safe. Not only for the obvious reason of safety, but because it is when we are unsafe that we make decisions that eventually we will not be able to live with. It is easy to be brave without danger. Our challenge is two-fold. Keep it easy to be brave, and also, rise to the challenge if we have to.
What Bush has done in protecting us from terrorists is also, to a certain degree, protected us from ourselves. Obama must realize that even a happy medium may have a certain unsavory price. If he doesn't, we'll be paying higher prices sooner rather than later. Change the culture of Washington, but give credit where credit is due.
So... in effect your claim/thesis is that George W. Bush stretched the limits of how far could things go without breaking irreparably, and in effect gave a precedent for said limits?
Posted By: Edward (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 12:34 AM
Wow.You made me think.That is what this site should be about.I do not agree with you most of the time but your article well done.
Posted By: John (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 12:55 AM
Another good article, Andrew. I can understand why people don't like Bush. In a lot of ways, I don't either. I do think he's better than most of what the Dems have offered. I have a lot of hope in Obama, though. I think people have seen how bad we could get, and now maybe he'll show how good we can be. Obama's challenge is to convince the world (particularly the Islamic world) to not confuse kindness with weakness.
Posted By: Barackalypse (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 01:18 AM
Is it really so inconceivable that it might--not even saying is--might be the same policies you deplore that contributed something to the lack of terrorist attacks? That not one genuine terrorist gave up his fellows and his locations under the threat of waterboarding? That not one potential enemy respects us more for our barbarism than our compassion? That there are those who want to effect another Sept. 11, but are afraid to do it on the fear that we might invade Iran and Syria, even if they operate out of Pakistan?
Posted By: Paul from ForF wks 8/25/67 (Registered) on January 14, 2009 at 05:37 AM
Worth noting that Bush certainly could have done more to protect the US from 9/11 ...but this could also be charged against the late Clinton period which decided not to make the domestic flights more secure .. this may sound like hindsight but people were highlighting the issue at the time...
Will we ever know as to why the Bin Laden family members were flown home following 9/11 ?
Posted By: Northants Grecian (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 07:34 AM
I have been humming "God Bless America" while reading your article Tobolowsky.
But by the title- when you said "what did Bush do right?" you could have just said "everything" and just been done.
I'm starting to enjoy your work. Your not a liberal, your a by God American!
Posted By: The Spook (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 08:36 AM
Well of course, Paul from F or F. Nuking the Middle East would also WORK, I'm just hoping we can find a slightly better balance of "work" and "nondeplorable activity". By the way, did you really do F or F in the late sixties? I know Crow's older than me, but I didn't think THAT old...
DAMN YOU THE SPOOKkkkkk.....
Posted By: Andrew Tobolowsky (Registered) on January 14, 2009 at 09:51 AM
I'll go on the record, and say that looking back the Bush administration really wasn't very good.
It's hard to say that- but it's true.
And I too am holding out a lot of hope for President Obama...lord knows the country needs some stability.
I think that Obama brings a sense of intelligence, not just book smarts- but cognitive ability to see consequences before actions.
The Bush administration never was good about communicating why policies were being enacted. I believe that Bush had the best interest at heart, but just never figured out how to get his message across.
Maybe history will be kinder in memory...ashes to ashes, so to speak.
Posted By: The Spook (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 10:25 AM
Like has been said before, once people read the security briefings Bush had to read everyday, they'll understand why he remained steadfast in his principles. We'll see if Obama changes his tune once he has to read the same kind of briefings.
Posted By: Michael (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 11:55 AM
Another thing, Bush had to inherit a recession from Clinton and the 9/11 mess. The economy rebounded nicely until it withered out at the end. People seem to forget about that unemployment was at its lowest (amazingly enough, around the same time before the liberals took over Congress, things going progressively worse since).
Posted By: Michael (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 11:56 AM
"Will we ever know as to why the Bin Laden family members were flown home following 9/11?"
Unequivocally yes! Yes we can know and many believe they do know. Let's do a thought experiment.
1. Your surname is Bin Laden and Osama Bin Laden is your blood relative.
2. You are living in the United States.
3. Al Qaeda attacks the United States razing both towers of World Trade Center and destroying lower Manhattan.
4. Americans are pissed, like really pissed.
5. Given the aforementioned, you reasonably decide that it may be a good idea to leave the United States for a while and return to the safety of your home in Saudi Arabia. You talk to other family members in America and they concur.
6. You call your private airline. FAA has grounded all flight operations in North America and your family is getting increasingly anxious.
7. The family intimately knows Prince Bandar et al. You call him because you know he has the cheese to get your flight approved. Not simply with the President and his family but also the Pentagon given Bandar's career in Saudi Air Force. US officials agree that it would be wise to return to Saudi Arabia. Flight gets approved.
8. You and your family return home thereby preventing some random American from harming you and your innocent family.
So there you go. Why were they allowed to leave? They asked.
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 01:25 PM
Good article, though I think we need to weigh the unfortunate precedents Bush set a little more heavily in the equation than you do.
Also, a peeve of mine. "Guantanamo" is an ambiguous term. Nobody is talking about closing down the naval station in Cuba. Instead we're talking about closing down the "Guantanamo Detention Center" - most commonly called Gitmo by those whose work involves the place, to avoid confusion with the naval station.
Posted By: Pat Shepard (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 01:39 PM
I say the following as someone who lives in a large American city which could very plausibly be a terror target: I would rather risk an attack if the alternative is that the government can tap my phone, open my mail, and maybe chuck me in a dank pit on a whim never to be seen again. To put it bluntly, my safety is not worth living in communist China. There are many reports that Gitmo prisoners included many who simply had false accusations made against them by someone with an axe to grind and zero evidence. Away they go for years without charge. We might as well bring back witch burning. If it was YOU getting pulled off a flight and interrogated by the FBI because your name was mistakenly on a no-fly list a new question would quickly come up. How am I safe if people without oversight can take my most basic rights away at any moment? Depending on who you believe, Palin tried to get her brother-in-law fired over a personal grudge. Do you think government agents are above such things? Power without oversight will ALWAYS be abused.
Michael: Unemployment never really came down, they just changed the definition. They did the same thing in Iraq, deciding only head shots counted as assassinations so they could report false progress. Saying the Constitution doesn't GRANT habeus corpus, only that it can't be taken away, "what is torture?", etc, etc, etc. As for security briefings, Bush was briefed pre-9/11 on al Qaida and didn't act. Not out of indifference but likely because he was getting five or ten similar briefings a day and it's just not plausible to know which require immediate action. I'm well aware many people want to kill us, but being terrorized by my own government now and forever is too high a price to pay for the illusion of security.
Posted By: Shockmaster (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 02:11 PM
Things Bush Did Right...
- Ended the incredibly stupid assault weapons ban.
Umm... that's all I' got.
Posted By: wcwchris (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 02:34 PM
Shockmaster,
This is why liberalism is a mental disorder. You'd rather sacrifice your life and millions more just so your phone isn't tapped or any other supposed freedoms being infringed. The fact is, a person like you isn't the intended target of such intrusions.
Posted By: Michael (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 03:29 PM
Michael
I feel there has to be a balance between our safety and the sanctity of our personal freedoms.
I think the Patriot Act takes it waaay too far in one direction.
Posted By: Dage (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 04:05 PM
When all is said and done, the Bush administration will be remembered for several things (whether they are his fault or not):
1. Turning a budget surplus into a massive deficit
2. Wasting all of the post 9/11 international goodwill and domestic bipartisanship by invading a country completely unrelated to the terror attacks.
3. A failure to realize how serious the Katrina-related problems in New Orleans were until someone actually had to show him video.
4. A complete lack of understanding or empathy about the consequences of his actions.
5. The triumph of slash & burn politics.
6. The glorification intellectual mediocrity.
I think it's the latter which really sticks at my craw. Our leaders are supposed to be smarter than us. I dont' give a shit about whether I can relate to them or not--I want to know if they have the capacity to do they job they were elected to do, and Bush has failed on all four cylinders.
Posted By: Michael L (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 04:09 PM
Humming god bless america?
For what, why would god honestly bless your country, you have killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people
You seriously think god would bless your country?
Posted By: Kent Baker (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 05:50 PM
>>This is why liberalism is a mental disorder. You'd rather sacrifice your life and millions more just so your phone isn't tapped or any other supposed freedoms being infringed.
So, Ben Franklin, a founding father of this nation and an amazing inventor, who said, "those who are willing to give up their freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security," was heavily afflicted with a mental disorder...
So essentially, the Aemrican Revolution was born of liberal mental disorder...
>>The fact is, a person like you isn't the intended target of such intrusions.
Right, and that's exactly what they said about McCarthyism, and about the Japanese internments...
Posted By: Brandon Crow (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 06:14 PM
"aemrican"Crow,you were all over Spook for bad typing.Pot,kettle,black.I expect more from a professor.
Posted By: John (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 09:21 PM
Crow, your such a ARMATURE.
Posted By: John (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 09:22 PM
"For what, why would god honestly bless your country, you have killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people
You seriously think god would bless your country?"
Cute. Did you scribble that down while watching George Carlin, or did you just commit it to memory?
Oh a side note, my God is an AWESOME God and he would totally bless America. He's seven hundred feet tall, wears nothing but a loincloth, and shoots laser beams from his eyes.
His name is Ralph.
Posted By: lol (Guest) on January 14, 2009 at 09:46 PM
john,
Ha, ha... nicely done! :)
Clearly, that's a typo.
By the way, the big difference here...I'm not trying to play it off like I meant to type that.
Oh, and I'm not calling you a fuck face monkey shit eater...by the way, that's my olive branch, dickwad! :)
Posted By: Brandon Crow (Guest) on January 15, 2009 at 01:27 AM
DICKWAD............ouch.Brandon,we have comunicated before,I respect you,but.....over the top response?
Posted By: John (Guest) on January 15, 2009 at 02:41 AM
If you really wanted to insult me then call me a goat face fucker.Mutch respect my liberal ass kicker
Posted By: John (Guest) on January 15, 2009 at 02:57 AM
John,
By the way, you're still on for F or F upcoming in a couple of weeks. I tried replying to your last email but it kept getting bounced back to me.
I'll email you mid week the week before you go. Thanks for participating.
Posted By: Brandon Crow (Guest) on January 15, 2009 at 10:53 AM
I never "played off" "armatue" I admitted I was wrong...
Even wrote a paragraph or two stating it...
So piss off- Chow, I thought we had an agreement- don't make me go Israeli on your Hamas.
Posted By: The Spook (Guest) on January 15, 2009 at 12:55 PM
Spook,
Easy there, Mr. Hypersensitive!
Our truce hasn't been violated. John is jokingly ribbing me about my comments directed at you because I made a boo-boo. I'm just responding to him in kind.
And by the way, you DID play it off. In the first strain of exchanges, I, along with many others, called you out on "armature," and you played it off as "what's wrong with armature? It's a word." Plainly, you did not admit then, that you had made a mistake. Instead, you gave the impression that you intended to use armature.
You only came clean when I prodded you again in a second strain of comments.
And please, you Israel and me Hamas?
1. You think way too highly of yourself if you think you're that powerful. Most of your comments have just been illogically linked insults.
2. There are a lot of people who characterize this latest mess in the mid east as Israel being unreasonable and overreactionary. So if that's what you're going after then I guess you are Israel.
Posted By: Brandon Crow (Guest) on January 15, 2009 at 06:47 PM
bush waved to stevie wonder
Posted By: Guest#9311 (Guest) on January 15, 2009 at 10:54 PM
As long as we agree that I am Israel, and you are Hamas- then the olive branch is once again extended and accepted and we can continue to move forward.
Thank you for giving in to my demands...you will not regret it.
When the time comes, I will cuss out anyone who "attacks" you...but just once- then we are "even".
I will call them "fuck face" and "shit dick" and " fuck dick" and "shit face" and they will know not to mess with Crow.
God...I'm drunk...gotta go- my wife thinks I'm an idiot when I'm screwing around online.
Enjoy the four-day weekend ladies...
Posted By: The Spook (Guest) on January 15, 2009 at 11:25 PM
"Bush waved at Stevie Wonder"Funny.Like when Biden asked a wheelchair bound man to stand up?Dude 5 more days and the whole Bush hate stuff is going to be officially tired.
Posted By: John (Guest) on January 16, 2009 at 01:41 AM
Well technically user 9311 wasnt hating on bush or making fun of him. He was simply stating a fact.. Our President did wave to a blind man
Posted By: LOUIS33 (Guest) on January 16, 2009 at 02:10 AM