The Bright Side of Fiscal Suicide
Posted by Mark Radulich on 01.30.2009
The stimulus bill isn't all bad, not exactly.
When George Orwell wrote "1984" he included a vision of the future in which people would converse in a language called. Orwell described Newspeak as "the only language in the world whose vocabulary gets smaller every year". Orwell's idea with Newspeak was to have a world where all shades of meaning were removed from language, which reinforced the total dominance of the State.
Calling something one thing when it's the exact opposite also might be an example of Orwellian Newspeak, like calling a bill full of spending on liberal social programs an economic stimulus plan. When one thinks of economic stimulus, most people generally think low taxes and incentives toward investments. One might even consider loosening lending standards to encourage people to start small business'. Typically the way one might stimulate the economy is to encourage growth in the marketplace rather than giving money to needy people who don't grow the economy. They will buy stuff, that is true, but a pittance in sales tax (if that) is no match for exponential growth industries.
However, the House passed the very Orwellian named "American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009" and this very same Act will probably pass in the Senate as well in some form or another. Now most of my brethren are crying out against this (as they should) and are encouraging Senate Republicans to vote against this bill in whatever form it takes. Now, I'm taking things from a more pragmatic approach. This is going to pass unfortunately. It will fail to stimulate the economy because most of the growth that we've had has been fraudulent and without actual "real dollar" support. This is of course the terrible downside to bubbles (dot.com, housing, etc.) But just because it won't do what it intended doesn't mean there isn't some good in there despite the fact that it won't pull us out of this correction.
Since I refuse to call a huge liberal spending program on the scale of the New Deal and The Great Society (both failures) by it's Orwellian name, let's just call it the Fiscal Suicide Act. As I stated earlier, the bill itself is not terrible when you see it for what it is, a bone being thrown at the most needy amongst us.
Rep. David Obey of Wisconsin, who chairs the House Appropriations Committee posted a summary of the Fiscal Suicide Act on US News and World Report. One of the areas that will benefit from an increase in spending is Education. Now I know many conservatives don't support anymore increases in spending for education because many kids are still dumber than mops despite the increases but, as always, there is a middle ground here. What competent, non-union educators want is competitive salaries to attract real professional teachers to the field as well as having resources actually ending up in the hands of students rather than disappearing in ether. The provisions of the Fiscal Suicide Act theoretically should do just that:
· $41 billion to local school districts through Title I ($13 billion), IDEA ($13 billion), a new School Modernization and Repair Program ($14 billion), and the Education Technology program ($1 billion).
· $79 billion in state fiscal relief to prevent cutbacks to key services, including $39 billion to local school districts and public colleges and universities distributed through existing state and federal formulas, $15 billion to states as bonus grants as a reward for meeting key performance measures, and $25 billion to states for other high priority needs such as public safety and other critical services, which may include education.
· $15.6 billion to increase the Pell grant by $500.
· $6 billion for higher education modernization.
Government healthcare is pretty atrocious and seemingly arbitrary in how they select recipients. From what many of my clients tell me, everyone that applies for Medicaid gets turned down the first time, then they get a lawyer who gets them accepted the second or third time around. When they finally do get Medicaid they awarded back pay from when they first applied, usually to the tune of several thousands of dollars. I personally would rather see all means tested social services and government programs for the needy done away with in favor of a Basic Income Guarantee but we seem to have a problem with basic math and reading in this country to understand a concept like the BIG so that will probably never happen. Since we are stuck with means tested government healthcare like Medicaid and Medicare, there has to be a better way to run a railroad. The Fiscal Suicide Act includes various provisions for "better" healthcare in this country such as:
· Health Information Technology: $20 billion to jumpstart efforts to computerize health records to cut costs and reduce medical errors.
· Prevention and Wellness Fund: $3 billion to fight preventable chronic diseases, the leading cause of deaths in the U.S., and infectious diseases. Preventing disease rather than treating illnesses is the most effective way to reduce healthcare costs. This includes hospital infection prevention, Preventive Health and Health Services Block Grants for state and local public health departments, immunization programs, and evidence-based disease prevention.
· Healthcare Effectiveness Research: $1.1 billion for Healthcare Research and Quality programs to compare the effectiveness of different medical treatments funded by Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP. Finding out what works best and educating patients and doctors will improve treatment and save taxpayers money.
· Community Health Centers: $1.5 billion, including $500 million to increase the number of uninsured Americans who receive quality healthcare and $1 billion to renovate clinics and make health information technology improvements. More than 400 applications submitted earlier this year for new or expanded CHC sites remain unfunded.
· Training Primary Care Providers: $600 million to address shortages and prepare our country for universal healthcare by training primary healthcare providers including doctors, dentists, and nurses as well as helping pay medical school expenses for students who agree to practice in underserved communities through the National Health Service Corps.
· Indian Health Service Facilities: $550 million to modernize aging hospitals and health clinics and make healthcare technology upgrades to improve healthcare for underserved rural populations.
COBRA Healthcare for the Unemployed: $30.3 billion to extend health insurance coverage to the unemployed, extending the period of COBRA coverage for older and tenured workers beyond the 18 months provided under current law. Specifically, workers 55 and older, and workers who have worked for an employer for 10 or more years will be able to retain their COBRA coverage until they become Medicare eligible or secure coverage through a subsequent employer. In addition, subsidizing the first 12 months of COBRA coverage for eligible persons who have lost their jobs on or after September 1, 2008 at a 65 percent subsidy rate, the same rate provided under the Health Care Tax Credit for unemployed workers under the Trade Adjustment Assistance program. [Ways and Means]
Medicaid Coverage for the Unemployed: $8.6 billion to provide 100 percent Federal funding through 2010 for optional State Medicaid coverage of individuals (and their dependents) who are involuntarily unemployed and whose family income does not exceed a State-determined level, but is no higher than 200 percent of poverty, or who are receiving food stamps.
Universal healthcare scares the pants off most rational people but if this trains coming one hopes that $600 million is enough to fund it (one hopes).
The last item I want to focus is Environmental clean-up. Unfortunately there's not a lot of profit in waste clean-up or refurbishing brownfields and superfund sites. That's an area that really does have to be funded by the government, at least in the immediate future. When someone learns how to make money off of environmental clean-up we hopefully won't need government programs but until then, not living in cancerous toxic waste is probably a good thing (even if we are paying through the nose for it).
· Superfund Hazardous Waste Cleanup: $800 million to clean up hazardous and toxic waste sites that threaten health and the environment. EPA has 1,255 sites on its National Priority List, selected based on a hazard ranking system. There are many Superfund sites ready for construction, but not funded due to budget shortfalls and over 600 sites with ongoing construction that could be accelerated.
· Leaking Underground Storage Tanks: $200 million for enforcement and cleanup of petroleum leaks from underground storage tanks at approximately 1,600 additional sites. There are an estimated 116,000 sites with the potential to contaminate important water supplies.
· Nuclear Waste Cleanup: $500 million for nuclear waste cleanup at sites contaminated as a result of the nation's past nuclear activities. Accelerating the completion of projects will reduce long-term costs.
· Closed Military Bases: $300 million for cleanup activities at closed military installations allowing local communities to redevelop these properties for productive use. The Department estimates that there is a $3.5 billion environmental cleanup backlog at bases closed during previous BRAC rounds.
· NOAA Habitat Restoration: $400 million for ready-to-go habitat restoration projects.
· Brownfields: $100 million for competitive grants for evaluation and cleanup of former industrial and commercial sites - turning them from problem properties to productive community use. Last year EPA was only able to fund 37% of Brownfields applications.
Reducing Wildfires Threats: $850 million for hazardous fuels removal and other efforts to prevent wildfires on public lands. Making these investments today will create jobs in the short run, but also save long term costs of fighting fires in the future.
· State and Private Forest Service Wildfire: $550 million for state and local volunteer programs and hazardous fuels reduction efforts which states and communities have determined are of the highest priority.
· Federal Forest Service Wildfire: $300 million for urgently needed hazard reduction on federal lands.
Bureau of Indian Affairs: $500 million to address maintenance backlogs at schools, dams, detention and law enforcement facilities, and over 24,000 miles of roads. BIA schools alone have an over $1 billion construction and maintenance backlog including shamefully unsafe conditions.
The Fiscal Suicide Act will be a reality and will probably cause more overall harm to the economy than not but there will also be pockets of society that will benefit from it. You can't really argue against educated children, providing modern healthcare and cleaning up toxic waste. So to paraphrase Monty Python, always look on the bright side of Fiscal Suicide.
Radulich, you're just so small and pathetic. I bet you've got an IV pumping bright red Kool-Aid straight into your veins. And I bet you borrowed it from Connolly. I can't believe there are two of you.
You're clearly not a serious person.
Posted By: EPIC CAT (Guest) on January 29, 2009 at 11:33 PM
Radulich, you're just so small and pathetic. I bet you've got an IV pumping bright red Kool-Aid straight into your veins. And I bet you borrowed it from Connolly. I can't believe there are two of you.
You're clearly not a serious person.
Posted By: EPIC CAT (Guest) on January 29, 2009 at 11:33 PM
How did I know this is the kind of response this article would elicit? Because this is how liberals defend their positions; by marginalizing those with different opinions and calling them names. Be satisfied YOUR opinion is backed up by facts, instead of ephemeral wishes about how we need to fix the world because it's so unfaaaairrr (weeping and whining sarcastically). Please, Epic Cat (is that a euphemism for grandiose pussy?) argue facts, not how much you dislike the writer of those facts. What, did he refuse to date you or something? There's no other reason to get personal.
Posted By: Guest#4625 (Guest) on January 29, 2009 at 11:57 PM
"...many kids are still dumber than mops despite the increases but"
You sir really know how to make the future of America seem so bright.
Posted By: DSJ (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 12:12 AM
Hey, if you want to sugarcoat the state of this country's education system, be my guest. We are laughingstocks when our 'college degrees' are compared to university graduates of European countries.
If you want to know why, look no further than the standardized tests all high school students are required to take. In Texas, there is at least one of them every single year of high school, and the state's education numbers are still ranked 48th in the nation. Standardized tests exist for the sole purpose of giving kids an 'equal level' graduate education, which becomes even more ridiculous when you enter public universities. What they call history and science classes in college these days are absurd.
We used to pay colleges to get a chance at a higher level of education. Today we pay so they can take attendence and give us a piece of paper saying we are qualified to work in society.
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 12:46 AM
You know what the problem is we think we can fix every problem by throwing billions of dollars at it. That is what we do instead of trying other ways to fix the problem; we say let's throw money at it and hope it goes away. It hasn't worked yet but damn it we will keep trying.
Posted By: Kyle (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 12:57 AM
Oh hey Brad, thanks for that lesson on standardized testing. I found the Texas part particularly intriguing, as that's my home state too!
Posted By: DSJ (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 01:31 AM
Now, I honestly don't want to get "bent out of shape" on this whole issue again, but what is it that has so many conservatives and "libertarians" up in arms about Obama's stimulus package?
You, sir, are another person, one of many "conservatives" out there, who are constantly harking on tax cuts being the "saving grace" of this economic trouble, yet you continue to not present a plan to fix the mess!
In case you didn't know, many of our nation's banks are still in pretty rough shape, from all the speculation that went on in the subprime mortgage business, and the credit markets are still pretty frozen.
What does it matter if the tax rates, for what look to be many of the people in the top 5%, are drastically cut, if we are still going to see months upon months of 400,000 jobs lost, on a constant basis?
Trickle-down economics does not work! Mainly because it NEVER reaches the people.
Obama and the House Democrats, so far, have a plan that has measures in it, to aid small business and states, but also a healthy component of it, to make sure that general people are held over for some time, to hopefully ride out the brunt of the economic downturn.
What is so wrong with that?
Yes, it's going to cost money, and yes, there are some stuff in their that doesn't make sense.
Still, the idea is very solid, and I can't see why you, and many other conservatives, are so hell-bent on seeing it fail.
There's are reason why Obama refuses to call it a "stimulus plan".
It's truly sad to see a whole "political block" believe, in "their hearts", that it's right to push "tax cuts", when every economist, across the spectrum, is saying that things are going to get much worse, before that get better.
Truly sad
Posted By: scipio2009 (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 03:55 AM
I really hope you're right, I want to be bankrupt and homeless! Fuck the environment, fuck infrastructure, fuck education, let the rich keep their taxes and make more money, and all of us sick, uneducated, lazy people will get what we deserve! Oh, and to the author here, go and read 1984 again, and remember that your pal Bush, the main steward on this sinking ship (started by your idol Reagan, perpetuated by both Bushes and yes Clinton too)created something called "Department of Homeland Security", Orewellian indeed. How about this one, "War on Terror"? When exactly does it end? My point is, lay out all the facts before correlating your points with 1984, when far worse to link our society to that has already been done.
Posted By: Wally (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 04:29 AM
I would surmise that Texas, like other border states, has unique challenges when it comes to standardizing its education system. That being said, these tests do not encourage students to think critically, rather to memorize and regurgitate. The problem currently that we have is twofold, one is the teacher's unions being too powerful, and the second being the current business approach to learning using these tests as a basis. While it is true that they're are some really bad teachers out there, using testing as the means to replace or punish them is counterproductive to learning since they are being forced to teach to the tests. That being said, the unions make it nearly impossible for administrators to remove those teachers that are not performing. In this case then, money will help so long as its put to recruiting better teachers with higher earning potential as this author insinuated (although I feel the union must remain, as no union is a far worse alternative, but more compromise must be negotiated).
Posted By: Joe (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 04:40 AM
Guest#4625, you're just so (adjective) and (adjective). I bet (pithy mocking goes here).
There's no point in arguing with irrational ideologues who argue their points with substanceless invective like "universal health care scares the pants off most people" when polls show most Americans favour universal health care. I'm just surprised nobody's namedropped Stalin yet.
I'm no raging liberal, trust me; I am, however, unimpressed by narrow partisanship.
Posted By: EPIC CAT (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 08:10 AM
Before I start I think it's cool and all to flip the script and get all bitchy about obama and his peeps now that they are in the white house...way to go 411.
ANYWAY........
It's nice that people with no life or regard for anyone but themselves (or possibly their own kind) can land the coveted position of..... News Blogger for some all-purpose news site.
Posted By: wowgetone (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 08:13 AM
Why would Universal Health Care be scary to so-called rational people?
Here in Canada we have it and our economy has been in better shape than the USA's for, well if not my entire life than at least my entire post single digit life.
As for the USA's school system, Season One of Weeds summedit up perfectly:
Uncle: "So what do they teach you in school?"
Nephew: "How to pass next week's Standardized Tests so the school can get more funding."
Posted By: Wooder (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 08:40 AM
"Because this is how liberals defend their positions; by marginalizing those with different opinions and calling them names."
Posted By: Guest#4625.
Read Ann Coulter much? Wake up: conservatives do the exact same thing. Look at how often Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. go from people who choose to "elevate the discourse" to the very same kind of people they profess to dislike so much when they're in an argument. Out comes the name calling and exaggerated (or just plain made up) facts. Get a fucking clue.
Posted By: Zingy (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 09:28 AM
Despite being fairly liberal myself, I am glad to see that the site has at least gotten a few good, conservative writers on the site now. I'm liberal in most areas, but that doesn't mean there isn't benefit in seeing the argument of "the other side" as well. So for every flaming "your an idiot" post from someone of the other political orientation, realize there are still some of us out there that still value your opinion. So keep writing. Its nice to get some more content on here now that the elections over.
Posted By: RuinerEX (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 09:32 AM
Giving money to agencies allows them to hire people and create jobs.
This is a silly article.
Posted By: DG (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 09:33 AM
"When one thinks of economic stimulus, most people generally think low taxes and incentives toward investments. One might even consider loosening lending standards to encourage people to start small business'. Typically the way one might stimulate the economy is to encourage growth in the marketplace rather than giving money to needy people who don't grow the economy."
That's precisely got us into this clusterfuck economy to begin with. Relaxed lending standards and tax cuts. Why is it that the only answer I EVER hear from Republicans to fix the problem is "More tax cuts." Look where the Bush tax cuts got us.
Posted By: Elliot (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM
Well argued. There are probably good reasons to fund many of the idea in the bill. It is sort of shameful that our elected leaders are afraid to speak truthfully and in good faith.
I don't see new job growth coming from businesses, institutions and programs that currently exist. Using debt to simply increase their budgets is only sustainable through more debt or taxing the currently productive components of our economy.
The view from the Bridge is that Obama's change has increased my debt load by a minimum of $6,000.00. Which in reality is more likely $24,000.00 considering I am one of the few suckers that actually pays Federal Income and Cap Gains taxes.
More grass seed anyone?
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Just like to say, and not this article but some of the comments, that I got meself educated both at a US university than at an Irish one, and between the two of them, the Irish one was definitely the joke.
USA! USA! USA!
Posted By: Andrew Tobolowsky (Registered) on January 30, 2009 at 12:21 PM
'Health Information Technology: $20 billion to jumpstart efforts to computerize health records to cut costs and reduce medical errors.'
I missed this the first time through. I'm all for medical accuracy, but by 'computerizing health records', are they meaning ACTUALLY keeping our information on files at local hospitals, or that national database bullshit? National Idea Cards and chip implants (yes, it has been thoroughly discussed since a certain day in 2001) are not only a waste of time, but a massive intrusion into our private lives.
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Reinvesting tax payer money back into tax payer interests, especially interests that focus on building and infrastructure, is the most fiscally responsible way to spend tax payer money.
Tax cuts alone are not and never will be the answer. Trickle-down/ Reagonomics has FAILED. Get over it and admit it to yourself. Back in the late 1800s, they had another name for your failed economic philosophy. It was called the Horse and Sparrow theory. The idea was is that you feed the horse enough grain, maybe enough of that grain will pass through its shit to feed the sparrows. They had a much more apt way of describing it back then. It really puts your economic ideas into perspective.
Posted By: TC (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 01:54 PM
TC,
How does government spending create long term growth? Are you saying that the country is economically worse-off now than thirty-years ago prior to so-called trickle-down policies?
I agree, why use those antiquated ideas of lower taxes when your policy innovations can be drawn from the Great Depression.
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 02:24 PM
Teacher Unions are definitely not the issue with education. Not allowing the administration to get rid of teachers who aren't performing? Where have you been? 'Not performing' = students not scoring high enough on standardized tests, since that's all they are allowed to 'teach' these days. Someone mentioned getting grants from the state due to tests scores. Bingo.
The teacher unions are the only things keeping these teachers at work. White teachers get threatened with a pink slip due to racism every time a black student fails a class, and black teachers get charged with drug use, drug distribution, and sexual harrasment anytime they have a white student helper. Not to mention all of the racist hate that comes their way at rural schools. Without unions, teachers would be in fear of their students every time they didn't give them all 'A's.
And if you want a conservative economist who has an answer, and has had answers since 2002, look no further than Peter Schiff. He's been laughed to scorn by every show he's been a guest on for the last 6 years, and now all of a sudden he's looking very prophetic.
And it is my view that healthcare should not be universal. It's a luxury, not a right. If you don't believe that, I want to see historical evidence of a hospital granted from the almighty to those that suffer. It's as much a right as owning an air-conditioning unit. I've always been against this concept because of the fact that so...many...people will abuse the shit out of it. It's already cake to get a fake scrip of xanax, just imagine once it's free. And those evil pharmaceudical companies? You haven't seen anything yet. They will create disease upon disease and disorder upon disorder to make sure you're going to get more meds every week. It's the only way they'll be able to sustain their current profit margins: through bulk.
I have no problem with the government granting money to hospitals so they can cover un-insured patients with legitimate needs. I have no problem with them getting a massive amount of money for it. But making the entire industry free will be a huge problem in this country.
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 02:55 PM
I'm in my thirties, which means I've lived through a couple of these 'economic downturns.'
They suck.
But they happen, and I'm always surprised why people try and play them up as the WORST THING EVER. As long as nobody does anything stupid, they usually go away on their own.
I'm all for spending on education, the environment, and helping the poor.
I'm not a fan of debt though. I'd like to know where the money is coming from.
Posted By: Dan (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 03:19 PM
I would love to hear some alternative suggestions and solutions instead of "OMG THIS ACT IS GOING TO DESTROY THE US!! LIBRAWLLZZZZZZZ!!!" Seriously, please someone suggest an alternative route to climb out of this hole we're in.
Posted By: Guest#7175 (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 03:47 PM
Here is an idea. Get to work. Innovate. So something productive instead of hanging onto Uncle Sugar's tit. Regardless of how much debt the Obamacrats want to strap onto my load, I succeed, will continue to succeed and provide jobs. Like I am doing with GenAudio. Go over to the music section and you will find a story about Public Enemy remixing their catalog with new audio technology AstoundSound by GenAudio.
The answer is to suck it up, nut up and make something of yourself.
God Bless America, Free Markets and Free People.
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 04:47 PM
Elliot and TC said it best, nice job guys.
Mark, I agree with your underlying belief that this bill will not turn things around, nothing will. But your notion of looser credit is the worst possible course of action. That's how we got here, and not just due to banks being put on the honor system. People in this country are cultured to spend far beyond their means and if that doesn't change we are doomed. It will mean a lot of businesses scaling back production and jobs until supply and demand are in equilibrium again.
Posted By: Shockmaster (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 05:10 PM
Brad, in answer to your question about the medical records, I don't have a direct line to Barack Obama or anything, but judging by the WALLS of paper files at my doctor's office, I'd say it's probably to computerize health records at individual locations, and not a national database. Though, I have been known to be wrong. From time to time.
Posted By: DSJ (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 06:33 PM
The safest thing to do is consolidate all of your funds into RVD bonds.
This is a sure thing but most likely a one shot deal.
Posted By: Mr. Money Night (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 08:41 PM
I normally don't comment on my own articles preferring to let my articles speak for themselves but on one point I admit I was not clear. When I said looser credit, I meant to start business' with, not for personal loans and definitely not for property loans. I think the key to growth is new business' that can grow the economy, and for those business' to start they need loans. That was my point with that remark.
And if people want to argue this with me further, call my radio show and speak your peace 10:00 AM Feb 22 blogtalkradio.com/pclive
Thanks for reading
Posted By: Mark Radulich (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 11:50 PM
Why is everyone who supports Obama saying "If you have a better plan then please tell us"?
Is he not the fucking President?
So now I have to do his job too? I'm already fighting terroists- now I have to fix the economy?
I still have yet to hear one of you motherfuckers say that the bailout is a good thing...
All I keep hearing is that "its the only plan we have".
Fuck it, here are two good ideas that I have for fixing the economy...
It's called "Operation Don't Shit-can 11 Trillon Dollars".
And it's simple,
The Plan, part 1: how about we wait and find a better plan, before we shit-can 11 trillon dollars.
How is that for a plan?
It's fucking simple, step 1: wait, step 2: ask someone to find a better plan, step 3: execute better plan...
The crux of the plan is too fucking easy- don't waste everyones money on shit we all know won't work.
Why is Obama trying to pass this so fast? Its not because we need it right now- its because this plan is full of bullshit excess money for welfare programs we don't need...
And he knows it- so the simple solution- pass it before anyone can really see it...like 150 million for rubbers, or 250 million for grass...yeah, stupid huh?
How about this for a backup plan: we don't give anymore money to faggots who lost it all in the first place?
At least with this portion of the plan, Obama won't look like a dipshit, slapping his head with his hand and saying "I told you not to use it for bonues- shame on you motherfuckers!"
Of course if he was really pissed he could go after them with legal action- but since they bought the office for him, that's not going to happen is it?
This is fucking stupid- but by pointing out how stupid it is we want Obama to fail- when most of the liberals think its stupid too. Its Liberal Loop Logic, or LLL.
I'll show you examples of LLL in the next few weeks, and it fucking sucks.
I think the best part of all of this is that I get to have my cake and eat it too...I can say "I hope this plan fails" and either be wrong and the nation is better, or be right and laugh at all the liberals for being retarded.
Either way, works for me.
So lets hear all the excuses fuckers! I gave you a better plan- one that won't cost a fucking dime, and will work...
And it's better than Obamas bullshit plan, and you all know it- so suck my balls you goofy tree-hugging fags!
Give em' Hell, SPOOK!
Oh and no spell check either assholes, I'm being lazy for a reason- I want a welfare check just like the liberals.
Posted By: The Spook (Guest) on January 31, 2009 at 01:04 AM
Anyone--especially conservatives--moaning about money being spent on schools, much needed updating of infrastructure and health care for kids needs to hold their tongue for just a second.
Before any more whining, I want to see/hear those conservatives out there to explain, and then own up to the following:
U.S. Monthly Spending in Iraq - $12 billion in 2008
(and that's just 2008. What up years prior where the spending was actually higher? And how many months have we been there now?)
U.S. Spending per Second - $5,000 in 2008 (per Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on May 5, 2008)
Lost & Unaccounted for in Iraq - $9 billion of US taxpayers' money and $549.7 milion in spare parts shipped in 2004 to US contractors. Also, per ABC News, 190,000 guns, including 110,000 AK-47 rifles.
Missing - $1 billion in tractor trailers, tank recovery vehicles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and other equipment and services provided to the Iraqi security forces. (Per CBS News on Dec 6, 2007.)
Mismanaged & Wasted in Iraq - $10 billion, per Feb 2007 Congressional hearings
Halliburton Overcharges Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported - $1.4 billion
Portion of the $20 billion paid to KBR that Pentagon auditors deem "questionable or supportable" - $3.2 billion
Posted By: Brandon Crow (Guest) on January 31, 2009 at 01:17 AM
>>Why is Obama trying to pass this so fast?
Oh, Jesus George W Christ! Here goes the fucking jerk-off Spookoff again.
In one of his last postings on another thread he said that Obama was pretty much piss because he hasn't done a damn thing as president...and he's already been president for a whopping week!
And now, it's "why is Obama moving so god-damn fast?!"
Like I said, bipolar. Belligerent. Moronic. Complete idiot.
If Spook had three more brains, he'd still be half a brain dumber than Bush. And we all know how brainy GW was.
Posted By: Spook Sucks Cock (Guest) on January 31, 2009 at 01:57 AM
Attack me all you want motherfucker- but you still have not said that you agree with the bailout.
Money for kids? Get the fuck out of here...
Kids are fucking lazy- Obama and the liberals want to pay billions to have internet access on the school buses...WiFi CHANGE!
I'll own up to the money we spent in Iraq...because its still a better investment then half of you peoples retarded kids pissing away their education because they think they are entilted to something...
Kids are not the problem- its fucking teachers and parents who think all these kids need medication instead of assbeatings. Try to teach a kid how to read when they are doped up on meds.
I'd rather give an Iraqi kid some money rather than some liberals dumb brat anything- at least the Iraqi kids work for our tax money.
Seriously Crow- you fruitbasket, how do you defend this bailout bill- we all know its a Ponzi Welfare Scam.
Hell, even the Democrats think its bullshit.
As far as this Spook Sucks Cock guy- somebody tell him to get off my cock, hes trying too hard to be my "archenemy"...I don't respond to armatures.
His jokes are lame, because he's trying too hard- good GW joke, we all got it after you took the time to explain it to us...fucking schmuck.
So Crow- I think you're a fat. But I also respect you for being honest...
So honestly, do you support this bailout, fatso?
Again, I'm not spell checking anything until I get a welfare check.
Posted By: The Spook (Guest) on January 31, 2009 at 03:25 AM
TC,
How does government spending create long term growth? Are you saying that the country is economically worse-off now than thirty-years ago prior to so-called trickle-down policies?
I agree, why use those antiquated ideas of lower taxes when your policy innovations can be drawn from the Great Depression.
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 02:24 PM
Over 50% of the entire wealth in the United States is concentrated in the hands of the top 1% of people in the country.
The country's GDP numbers maybe far better than they were before "Trickle down theory", but with the income disparity continuing to expand, along with many other measures of the strength of the populous, being in the same shape, or worse, than it was before Reagan, I can't see how someone can argue that we are "better off" with trickle down.
With the financial system and the banks being so out-of-whack, I just don't see how tax cuts are the "Cryptonite" for this problem.
Posted By: scipio2009 (Guest) on January 31, 2009 at 06:58 AM
Here is an idea. Get to work. Innovate. So something productive instead of hanging onto Uncle Sugar's tit. Regardless of how much debt the Obamacrats want to strap onto my load, I succeed, will continue to succeed and provide jobs. Like I am doing with GenAudio. Go over to the music section and you will find a story about Public Enemy remixing their catalog with new audio technology AstoundSound by GenAudio.
The answer is to suck it up, nut up and make something of yourself.
God Bless America, Free Markets and Free People.
Posted By: AdmChesterMynutz (Guest) on January 30, 2009 at 04:47 PM
It's all well and good, to sit and just tell everyone to just "suck it up" and figure out a way how to save yourselves, if not for the fact that many of the tools that people would've used to do such a thing are, effectively, "out of the toolbox".
It's all well and good to tell people to just innovate some brilliant idea, out of thin air. Still, you need to have money, or access to money, to even follow an idea, and unfortunately, many Americans aren't sitting on a pile of money, like you apparently are.
lol
Posted By: scipio2009 (Guest) on January 31, 2009 at 07:04 AM
Attack me all you want motherfucker- but you still have not said that you agree with the bailout.
Money for kids? Get the fuck out of here...
Kids are fucking lazy- Obama and the liberals want to pay billions to have internet access on the school buses...WiFi CHANGE!
I'll own up to the money we spent in Iraq...because its still a better investment then half of you peoples retarded kids pissing away their education because they think they are entilted to something...
Kids are not the problem- its fucking teachers and parents who think all these kids need medication instead of assbeatings. Try to teach a kid how to read when they are doped up on meds.
I'd rather give an Iraqi kid some money rather than some liberals dumb brat anything- at least the Iraqi kids work for our tax money.
Seriously Crow- you fruitbasket, how do you defend this bailout bill- we all know its a Ponzi Welfare Scam.
Hell, even the Democrats think its bullshit.
As far as this Spook Sucks Cock guy- somebody tell him to get off my cock, hes trying too hard to be my "archenemy"...I don't respond to armatures.
His jokes are lame, because he's trying too hard- good GW joke, we all got it after you took the time to explain it to us...fucking schmuck.
So Crow- I think you're a fat. But I also respect you for being honest...
So honestly, do you support this bailout, fatso?
Again, I'm not spell checking anything until I get a welfare check.
Posted By: The Spook (Guest) on January 31, 2009 at 03:25 AM
lol
You keep saying you just want us to sit and wait, but when the +400,000 jobs per month rate, finally takes your job, you're going to be singing another tune.
It's even further hilarious when, after economist, across the scale, are saying that government action on the economy is the right way to go, yet you still have your head up your ass.
The skeleton of Obama's plan is simple: tith the economy over until we get the whole bank's mess straightened out, and the banks lending to small businesses and consumers again.
The RR Plan and the 2nd half of the TARP. Cushion the blow to the people of the US, while we straighten out the financial system, and then worry about paying down everything once the country is moving again.
It's not that hard to figure out.
Posted By: scipio2009 (Guest) on January 31, 2009 at 07:19 AM
"We are laughingstocks when our 'college degrees' are compared to university graduates of European countries. " (Brad)
we are? news to me. perhaps you were referring to public US universities. Our private universities are the best in the world because they can charge whatever they like. European universities are generally considered inferior.
Though our public high schools (secondary schools) certainly are worse than in Europe, ironically.
Posted By: hansmoleman (Guest) on January 31, 2009 at 11:29 AM
Scipio,
I understand what the bailout and this stimulus is supposed to do...
But why the fuck is there so much excess bullshit in it?
How does 150 million in rubbers stimulate the economy?
How does 250 million in grass mean more jobs?
How does a billion dollars for WiFi on school buses help anyone?
The idea of stimulating the economy is fine...Barack Obamas plan to stimulate the economy and sneak in welfare programs with the same money is stupid.
Here is the other idea- its okay for markets to fail, its normal.
Why should us as tax payers bailout a company nobody wants or uses? If a company like Ford produces a product we don't want, and they are a 50 billion in the hole- why do we need to bail them out.
If it means 100,000 jobs- oh well.
Nobody is promised a fucking job in this country- its the cold hard truth.
And bleeding heart liberals will spend our tax money on paying the income of these people for a product nobody fucking wants.
The executives of these companies have already started to give themselves bonues with this money...
My question is why do you think this will work? All indications is that they won't.
I would rather lose 10,000,000 jobs now and get a better plan later.
They are going to turn us into a welfare state! Don't you fucking see it?
Your grandkids will inherit this debt. 11 trillion dollars is about to be fucked in the butt, and handed over the the very rich and the very poor.
You and I will not see a dime...but we will take the fucking hit.
I don't mind spending 11 trillon on defense, since we all know what can happen if we ignore it...
But 11 trillon on a cleverly concealed welfare check, and to pay the salaries of millionares?!
Are you liberals really this fucking stupid? Your own people in congress think this is dumb.
Ignore this impluse to help everyone at the expense of everyone...
Ignore this idea that putting a bandaide on a severed arm will heal it...
It does not have to happen right now. It can wait a month- or two, until a better plan, one with less bullshit is written.
No spell check until I get my welfare check.
Posted By: The Spook (Guest) on January 31, 2009 at 12:23 PM
For the millionth time, lefties, here is why this won't work:
Governments do not create net wealth. What is given to one person must either be:
A. taken from another person
B. borrowed, and then paid back by our kids
In case "A" you are basically saying "we're from the government, and we know what's best for you"
In case "B" the question becomes: when the hell are we going to ever pay this back, and how are we going to pay it back?
Considering the fact that the US Government doesn't do much of anything well, I'm a bit worried that Obama and company actually believe the Government is the answer out of this, rather than the spirit and innovation of the American entrepreneur.
This bill isn't going to create jobs. It's largely a combination of all the wildest welfare dreams of idiots like Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, Biden, Frank, Schumer, Rangel, and Kennedy.
It's pathetic, and it will fail to end the recession. For that reason I'm glad the House Republicans finally woke the fuck up. Dems think this bill is so freaking great? Awesome, let them take full credit for it. And when it fails, they get full blame.
Posted By: Eric (Guest) on January 31, 2009 at 03:14 PM
right wingers and their tax cuts yeah after the great bush econmony we see how the results come out. Yeah who wants to spend money on useful things when the rich can keep getting relieved thank god the republicans are out of the white house and we can actually make progress in this country instead of sticking to what got us to this point.
Posted By: Guest#2037 (Guest) on January 31, 2009 at 05:46 PM
I wasn't talking to you Spook, so this is your fault.
Do I support President Obama's stimulus plan? Of course I do. I'm a product of my environment. And my environment has taught me that if we don't support our president, then we are unpatriotic.
So, clearly you are unpatriotic and you hate America. Clearly you want the troops to die.
And frankly, that's even more disgraceful coming from a military person like yourself. How can you wish harm and death upon your fellow men and women in uniform?
And on top of that, you want to take perfectly good American dollars and give it free to the evil kids of terrorist insurgents so they can use it to blow up American troops.
You are a perfidious louse.
You're a
Posted By: Brandon Crow (Guest) on January 31, 2009 at 06:24 PM
Crow you got cut off...
And where did I say that I wanted to give money to "kids of terrorists"?
Does the idea that Iraqi kids work harder and have better morals then liberals hurt your feelings?
Are you saying that all Iraqis are terrorists?
Makes me laugh how you, and others like you, can completely ignore what was said- or what was done in the past. Like how I forgot your unbridled support of our former President.
By saying "you support the bailout because the President thinks its good" is far from "Support the troops"...because "supporting the troops" doesn't mean "I agree with the war"....and we all know how much liberals support the war- after all I've been called every name in the book by people "who support the troops" but think the "war is illegal".
How does that work? To say the war is "illegal", but to "support the troops"? Do you feel sorry for us? Are we too stupid to "get it"? Perhaps not enlighten on years of West Coast University schooling?
I need to know- because I need to know how to speak out against Obama for this bailout properly…so I can remain “American”.
But you advocate a fascist state- that Obama is somehow immune to being questioned. Why?
Because it sucks that nothing has CHANGED? Deep down you’re just as angry and disappointed in all this as everyone else.
I'm glad we don't agree on shit Crow, I would never want your morals.
It's amazing, that liberals usually pick and choose morals that defend their cause, and you pick hypocrisy, lies, semantics, and generally poor taste to defend yours...I bet it was natural for you too, just oozed out- like liberal poison.
Congrats Crow- you have reached a new low. And it pleases me to see you acting closer to how you really feel.
Just say that you will support Obama no matter what he does- even if its wrong and be done with it.
Now maybe you can give some honest answers as to why you HATE this bailout as much as everyone else.
Or keep being a frighten, little shit, who strikes back at the easiest of prodding’s...the first hint of resistance. It’s scary, your guy has so much on his shoulders, and he can’t fail- so much is riding on him…he’s the single point of success or failure.
Or he’s just a guy being manipulated into making bad policy.
"Sons of terrorists", that’s a cute line, so is questioning my loyalty- but I don't need to defend myself; I have people like you who I have to defend. Enjoy it Crow, we do it for free. Enjoy the bottom too, there’s lots to eat down here…
Posted By: The Spook (Guest) on February 01, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Spook:
My...my... I'll tell the truth here... I'm really glad to see how quick, how attentive and how detail oriented you are when it comes to noticing that other people have taken your points and twisted them completely into nowhere land.
It also heartens me to see that you can actually challenge the points of others logically, all the while, with a keen eye pointing out how hateful and "low" those comments are. On top of all this, you've shown me that you can actually discern when someone else has completely ignored possibly good/valid points you've made in a previous comment.
Now if only you'd apply all of these logic and argumentative faculties to your own comments and responses, then I think we can finally have some decent, intelligible discussion.
Since some of your first postings, I've been waiting for you to curtail your ranting, your snarky/hateful vitriol, waiting for you to actually address the points being made and to not ignore the ones you can't address, and most of all, to stop taking someone else's points (when you know what they're saying) and pretzel them to hell so as to facilitate yet another one of your smarmy "you go fuck off in your mommy's basement, you monkey dick" comments.
All of these "off the wall" comments I've been posting here was my attempt to get you to see yourself. Clearly, I've failed miserably.
Until now.
But how sad is it that I finally figured out how to speak to your language by literally having to speak your language, in the same nutty fashion you do, stooping to the same low levels you do?
This could be a new beginning, Spook. But you're gonna have to drop that scum-bag facade and engage like a sensible, responsible, prudent person. In short, no more of the angry, foul-mouthed, fly-off-the-handle Spook.
Hey, a Crow can dream, right? :)
Insofar as my thoughts on the bailout, email me privately (crow.bradon@gmail.com) and I'd be happy to share/discuss/debate them with you. With the exception of like three people with self control on these comment boards, this kind of public forum just too easily invites huffy, over-the-top, "gotcha" grandstanding by everyone else, you and I included.
I'll be waiting to see if I hear from you. What do you think, Spook? Do you care for a genuine, honest, new start? Or are you happier hoarding all the "yummies" at the bottom?
Posted By: Brandon Crow (Guest) on February 01, 2009 at 02:32 PM