411 Sports Fact or Fiction 09.12.08: Will the Mets Choke, Is Jamie Moyer Ageless, Is Shawn Merriman an Idiot???

Posted by Ken Schmidt on 09.12.2008

This week features every member of the final four in a showdown and only two will survive into the finals!

The Fact or Fiction that has been three weeks in the making. It is a real long one and I don't want to waste time introducing the Final 4, if you don't know who they are, than welcome to 411mania, because these four are some of the biggest names on campus. Anyway, here is the tiebreaker between Lealos and JT as well as the big showdown of Csonka vs. Garmer, WHO WILL MAKE THE FINALS.
Ladies and Gentleman: LET'S GET READY TO RESEARCH


TIEBREAKER: The NFL should switch to an 18 game season.

Shawn Lealos FICTION - What does two extra games mean? It would mean the season would start in the middle of August or stretch into the middle of February. I would say the only way to do this is to eliminate two pre-season games and start it in the middle of August. I hear a lot of people arguing that the pre-season is too long (4 games is too long?) and it give players more chances to get hurt in meaningless games. This might make those fans happy because it takes away no football contests, but replaces two "meaningless" games with two more games worth something. However, that would give you two less games to evaluate talent against other teams in actual games and hurt the development of those young gems in the rough that makes preseason games important.

Now, what if you pushed the start of pre-season back two weeks, eliminated no games, and just added two more games to the current schedule? Or even worse, what if you pushed the Superbowl into February and played those two extra games in January? You notice all the cramps and minor injuries that occur in preseason and training camp now? The injuries caused by working out in the intense heat? Those would come in the first few weeks of the season as well, where these pre-season injuries become season injuries when pre-season games become games that count. Football is not a summer sport for a reason. The intense heat of July and August would hurt players more than it would help them. As for January, who doesn't want more football games in zero degree temperatures and snow covered fields?

The biggest problem with an 18-game season is the wear and tear on players throughout the year. Last season, some marquee players started to drop with injuries around Week 14-15. Add on two more weeks, and you have more of a chance to lose players to injury before the playoffs even begin. A running back would get an average of 40-60 more carries a year added onto his career. In the 70s, a running back could run into his early thirties unless he was a bruiser like Earl Campbell. Now, 30 years old is the breaking point for a running back. If 2 more games were added a season, I could see that age dropping to 28-29 years old. I am as much a fan of players as teams and I would hate to see my favorite players breaking down, and leaving the game even earlier than they already are.

The offseason is very important for players to get healthy after beating the hell out of themselves during the season. It is also a time for players to have surgeries to repair their broken bodies (or in the case of Shawne Merriman, not getting the surgery he needed!). Shortening the offseason would hurt the players needing to rehab these injuries. I know we are only talking about two weeks, but these players need all the time they can get to stay healthy.

An 18-game season would also hurt rookies quite a bit. You could see Marshawn Lynch start to wear down last season. He was used to 10-11 game seasons and was expected to remain fresh for 5 more games upon entering the pros. I don't see many young players lasting an entire season with today's 16-game schedule. People seem to think college football needs to change their schedule, but the arguments seem to be there should not be more games in college football because of the welfare of student athletes. I love football and if the offseason was shorter, I would be a happy man. But it would not be good for the game, teams, or players.

JT: FACT. And for sooooooooooooooo many reasons. I'm not even sure where to start. I suppose I'll start by mentioning that obviously lengthening the regular season implies shortening the preseason, an idea I fully support.

First, it financially benefits everyone without taking away from the game. Here's how the pot would sweeten all around:

Owners/Venues: The attendance for a preseason game is generally laughable in comparison to regular season games. Two additional regular season games (at slightly higher ticket prices no less) is a clear win when you factor in things like merchandise sold (more people = more merch), beer and food concessions, and in some cases even parking. The NFL obviously gets their cut, but that's small potatoes for them compared to the later discussion.

Players: Players might get a cut of their merchandise sold and bonuses for things in their contract, but none of that is guaranteed (contractually it might be, but I mean as in their jerseys aren't guaranteed to sell and they aren't guaranteed to hit 15 TDs). What is guaranteed – with the exception of certain circumstances regarding health (like getting in a motorcycle accident) – is a paycheck. For the casual fan who might not know about such things, players are paid weekly during the regular season, usually for the previous game. Two more games = two more paychecks. Now, that will likely be counter-calculated based on current contract to start, but when negotiations start to come up from now on, more games could equal more paper. Not only that, two more games equals two extra opportunities to sell merchandise and/or attain certain goals which will result in the aforementioned bonuses some players have written into their contracts.

Coaches: This will sound a little silly, but the bottom line is that experience is just as good for coaches as it is for players. As a coach, you have two more games (that count) to find yourself in a situation you may have never encountered before and have a chance to learn from it based on the circumstances and the decision you make. That can only help you later in your career as you progress from assistant special teams coach to assistant D-Line coach to assistant defensive coordinator to defensive coordinator to head coach. That's obviously just an example, but you get my point. How is that financially beneficial? Because getting that job as a head coach can be quite nicer on the wallet than that job you get as an assistant.

Fans: …Okay, fair enough. We don't gain financially. In fact we'd have to spend a little more moolah depending but in return we get two extra games. Considering I only get 16 home team games a year, I will take it!

Television: They clearly benefit. NFL is a ratings beast, and the closer they can incorporate it to not only to the down time of the "early year" break, but towards "sweeps week", the better. TV will completely use this to their advantage.

National Football League: We don't have the time or column space to delve into this one, but we can focus on one thing not pertaining to ticket sales and merchandise and other revenue because we're all already aware of those. Rather let's go with television. I have no idea exactly what the setup is as it pertains to ratings, channel, viewership, etc etc. What I do know is that somehow the NFL gets roughly 3 ½ billion dollars a year from their TV contract(s)/revenues. If we consider the regular season week 1 to the Super Bowl to be equal (obviously it's not but I don't have access to the percentages), that's about 175 million dollars a week. Throw two more in, and hello to an extra 350 million a season. I'm sure the NFL would look forward to that (assuming they worked it out contract wise). Seriously… four BILLION dollars a year from television alone? And certain veterans can't get a little help with the health care? …what the fuck…

That's for a different question in a different column though. For now I shall refocus on the fact there would be less preseason. Now, this would be a WONDERFUL thing. The main reason of course being injuries; there are too many important guys getting hurt on meaningless plays during games that do not matter. Chad Johnson Ocho Cinco, Jeff Saturday, and others would be more than happy to tell you about it. If these guys are going to be hurt, at least let it be in a game that means something.

Honestly, do we need Tony Romo in a game that doesn't matter? In a situation where the Cowboys are only going to call 10% of their playbook/scheme no less? No. Romo is fine without the extra work, and having him out there is a waste. I will digress though, because it was merely a week and a half ago that myself and Lealos were both up here telling you all about how preseason shouldn't be ignored, and how coaches use it to their full advantage. I can't say preseason is utterly useless, but I can try to revise the system to fit the question/statement at hand. Here is a relatively painless suggestion to preseason:

- For the first two weeks, you implement a league-wide system of scrimmages that some teams already hold. Your starters get a little warm and somewhat in rhythm as we head towards the regular season, but run a very minimal risk of injury. Coaches can also throw some of the new/other guys out there in the 4th quarter to make sure they're getting a grasp of the system.

- After the first two scrimmages, now you sit. Sit your top 30/35 guys without question, they are done until Week 1. The only snaps they'll be seeing between now and Week 1 will be in practice. Let the other 45/50 guys go at it in two preseason games before the season starts. That's where the coaches can start to make the decisions on certain cuts or roster spot battles, and also make a final decision on a couple of low end starters. After that, narrow it down again to your final 53 and you are ready for your season.

That should keep everyone happy. Starters get in some work to prepare, the other players get themselves on film, coaches see enough action to pick their final roster, and everybody is in better shape fatigue-wise for a full 18 game season.

Scoring

Ken Schmidt No offense to Lealos who I have earned a lot of respect for going into the final four as a rookie but his answer here really missed some of the key points and my personal opinion is to agree with his answer. However, JT brought the supporting info while Lealos never mentioned why they would have to remain at 20 total games (currently 4 preseason and 16 regular). It is all about the money money, yeah yeah. I think JT should move on due to this tiebreaker.

Dan Owen I'm giving the point to Lealos here. As much as we fans would love to see some more games, it's just not a good idea to cut short the preseason, which is the only place more games could go. JT, it'd be nice if I could believe you that players can simply turn it on right at the start of the season without the preseason games, but that simply is not the case for the vast majority of players. Take away the preseason games, and the level of play becomes terrible for the first few weeks and they'll end up being practically meaningless anyway.

AND WE NEED A DOUBLE OVERTIME


1. Shawn Merriman is making a bad decision by playing this season.

Larry Csonka: FACT: And the fact is this, HE SAID SO HIMSELF! And I quote: "It could be career-threatening if I did (play)," Merriman said. "It's a possibility. That possibility is still open." This was August 24th. His knee is essentially shredded with the MCL and PCL injuries. I have had these same injuries, and this is that is hard to do everyday life. Rehabbing is even worse. Playing with your child is excruciating. Now if that is the case, how much pain will he be in going FULL OUT in the NFL? Cortisone only goes so far to help you, I know. Painkillers only go so far before they start to destroy your body as well, I know. 3-4 doctors have told him that he should get surgery and sit the year to properly recuperate, and yes he is still playing. I feel that he is playing as a way to gain good will with the team. Next year is his contract year, and I think that he feels if he comes back from surgery and has a slow year, he
will not get PAID the big bucks. But by being a MAN or whatever the hell he thinks he is doing, he might make them happy, sit out next year with the guarantee of a good deal.

"It could be career-threatening if I did play."

That says it all really. He has been to professionals that have told him not to play and he is still doing it. He's going to be a warrior, he's going to take one for the team and everyone seems to want to celebrate this. That is until he get sideswiped in the knee and it explodes Joe Theisman style and they then will all say he should have sat. Get the wheelchair ready, and I hope it's worth it Shawn. You've been warned, and if you screw up your career due to this, don't come crying to us.

Sean Garmer: FACT. Seriously I want to see anyone that says he is making a good decision to play this year. This is one of those times where athlete's intelligence is questioned, because most people would think about their health in this situation and not the money that they may make in two years, this "I wanna play" stuff is bullshit, he's worried about the money. Merriman should be seeing himself as an investment, his craft is using his body to make tackles, sacks, and be able to drop into coverage. If you have a huge chance of killing that investment and ruining your chance to continue doing what you "love", it would behoove you to listen to all four of your doctors (including Dr. James Andrews, the end all be all, when it comes to sports medicine) and get the surgery. This is not heroic or great; he isn't really helping his team by doing this and if he gets hurt it is going to be serious, no shot or painkillers is going to take away what he could potentially do to his body. Ok, enough opinion let's get technical with this since I've never had this injury like Larry.

The PCL is the main stabilizer for your knee and having LCL damage means that 2 out of 4 the stabilizers in your knee are out, and it doesn't take very much to worsen the injury. What can happen as a result is the cartilage (the soft stuff in your knee) gets badly damaged and any damage done to cartilage does not heal, pretty much he could ruin the rest of his career if it gets hurt bad enough. I don't know, that doesn't sound like a good reason to play this year to me. The rehab for an injury like this takes about nine months, so if he does happen to survive the year and the Chargers make the playoffs that means he could spend half of his contract year rehabbing instead of playing. I don't know I would think it is more important to be healed and then kick booty in that contract year, isn't that how most athletes do it nowadays? In football terms other than making himself a huge target for offensive lineman, he also limits his rotational and lateral movement, so he can't drop into coverage as well as he used to, his speed and aggressiveness in the running game is going to be limited as well. Just to have him rush the QB they are going to have to line him out almost like a Nickelback so that he doesn't run into a huge block of an O-Lineman that will cause him to have to bend his knee to get out of the block or turn, which is almost null with an injury like that. So really, it all comes down to Merriman's decision, he wants to play, go ahead, but I have a feeling he is going to end up regretting it.

Scoring

Ken Schmidt Thank you to Dr. Garmer for the medical lesson. Both brought the same "career ending" argument to the table here with Larry's direct quote and Garmer getting all Gray's Anatomy on us. The point here goes to Larry because Garmer brought to us the reasons HE IS playing, which is dumb on Merriman's part, but it supports a legit reason for playing, that hurt your argument of he shouldn't

Dan Owen I'll give the point to Garmer because the fact that he is injured goes beyond simply the longevity of his career, it also has some immediate concerns. He's a tough man, there is no doubt about that. But no matter how tough you are, when he has the type of problems he says he has, then there has got to be some drop off in on field performance. Would the Chargers like to have him play at 100% for one more year before having surgery? Arguable. Would the Chargers like him to play at 50% and then have surgery? Much less likely.


2. UCLA will upset USC this season to win the crown of California.

Larry Csonka: FACT: Let me begin by stating that I HATE these kinds of questions. They are too forward looking, and I don't care if Ken and Dan get their panties in a bunch. A BUS may run off a cliff and kill the USC team tomorrow for all we know. The UCLA quarterback may break a leg, hell the entire California coats may contract meningitis and they could cancel every event for the remainder of 2008. Anything could happen before December when they play.

But I'll play along.

Here's how I see it, I say that UCLA WILL defeat them. First of all they have vastly improved their coaching staff with Neuheisel, Chow and Walker. Neuheise will recruit his ass off, Chow is comsidered an offensive genius and Walker may be his equal on the defensive side of the ball. They have a soft schedule, which will allow them to gain momentum through out the year and perfect the systems they run. Some will say that the PAC 10 is loaded, and I laugh. Sure UCLA will only return 10 starters, and some will say that they lack a big time playmaker. But with Chow and Walker running the sides, I think that they will have a more solidified team mentality. And I am sorry but TEAM meats a singular playmaker.

As for USC, they have a joke of a quarterback with Mark Sanchez. This is the guy that couldn't beat out John David Booty last year and they are trying to seal him as the second coming of Carson Plamer. REALLY? SRLY? They also have no one as far as a go to wide receiver for him to throw to. They lost Sedrick Ellis and Keith Rivers on defense, and THOSE are two guys that you just don't plug the wholes for. USC is superstar ball, and they don't have the horses to play that game, and it will not help them against someone like UCLA that will come in there with a fortified unit, no superstars and an urge to prove 99% of the college football fans wrong.

Sean Garmer: FICTION. Geez Larry, if anyone has their panties in a bunch here it seems to be YOU. Don't attack Ken's question when he's only asking you to do something that we are asked to do in Sports, all the time and that's make, gasp! A prediction, besides if one of those crazy things you mentioned did happen you would obviously get a reprieve. Anyway, Neuheisel will certainly bring great things and having a former USC offensive coordinator in Norm Chow helps, as he knows what Pete Carroll likes to do. I will give both these teams credit for scheduling some tougher first two games then most teams do. UCLA survived a close one against Tennessee, that included their third string QB (he may be their starter now) throwing four interceptions in the first half and then leading them to victory, also helped by the Volunteers missing three field goals. USC went clear across the country to play a good Virginia team and spanked them 52-7. Ohio State and BYU are not pushovers for these two in round 2. Larry is right, in that losing Sedrick Ellis and Keith Rivers is big, but Mark Sanchez has all the tools to be another memorable USC QB. Really I don't think it is fair to say that he is crap because he couldn't beat out John David Booty, you aren't doing him justice. Why would you want to change your QB when you brought back a bunch of your starters last year? Aside from that, yeah, USC lost four starters on that O-Line and they don't have a "known playmaker" at HB or WR, but four different runners scored a touchdown on Saturday and that's not a bad thing to have, when you have young options like that it means good things.

Their defense still has a great core of Defensive backs and Linebackers, with Moala coming back to that front line. USC having a chance to be undefeated when they face UCLA makes them focus on this game and know that they have to win to get to the Promised Land. UCLA looked good in that comeback over the weekend but they have weaknesses that were very apparent, they have no running game, their leading WR and Tight End are both going to be out for at least a month, and Craft is going to have to show he can be confident the whole season. They have the potential to do big things this year but it is a huge ask to expect Neuheisel (regardless of whether the game is at home) to just go beat one of the top teams in the land. I think eventually they can usurp USC and take the crown, but Neuheisel needs a couple years of recruiting and to have the players he wants to get that done. I would be amazed to see it because I'd rather not see USC or Ohio State in the championship game, but this year I don't think it's going to happen.

Scoring

Ken Schmidt Oh Garmer, trying to score brownie points by defending poor little me. I am used to it by now Larry and JT attack my questions on weekly basis yet somehow are in the final 4, which means more attacking. Anyway UCLA looked amazing week 1 but after that game to Virginia, I have lost all faith in them as contenders, point to Garmer

Dan Owen I think that UCLA will eventually be able to beat USC if they can keep this coaching staff intact, but it won't happen this year. The college game is my domain these days, and I can't believe neither of you guys mentioned Joe McKnight, who is the next coming of Reggie Bush. Anyway, the point goes to Garmer because I think he's right, UCLA won't win…at least not this year.


3. Mark Kotsay will make an immediate impact for the Red Sox.

Larry Csonka: FICTION: An impact as what, being a fine role player? If that was the question sure, that's all well and good. And I am not trying to insult Mark Kotsay, he may very well be a nice person and is surely a better baseball player than I am. But he isn't an IMPACT kind of guy.. He's a serviceable fielder, and a solid bat. He won't hurt you, but he won't be the guy doing a ton to help in the IMPACT sense. I think we need stats. MONKEYS IN THE TRUCK!
All right, batting average is under .300, HR's are anemic, more strikeouts than walks and isn't a huge RBI guy. And then there is his ONE lay off appearance. Average DOWN, on base percentage DOWN, Slugging DOWN, on-base plus slugging, DOWN! The SOX are in a push for the playoffs, and if they get there they need a guy that will deliver, not someone who goes from reliable to blah. Bottom line is this: Mark Kotsay will be a very solid edition to the roster and that is a good thing, but he is NOT an impact player and will not be making any kind of important impact for the SOX.

Sean Garmer: FACT. If you look at the definition of impact (a word that has multiple) it means to have an effect or influence on, it doesn't say they have to have a world changing one or even hugely significant, but enough with the play on words. The question also doesn't say "will he be an impact player, it's will he make an immediate impact, two different terms. Mark Kotsay may not be a huge homerun hitter like Manny Ramirez or a legendary pitcher like Greg Maddux but he was an important snag for the Red Sox on deadline day. JD Drew's injury made way for Boston to get the good utility man. He is a very good fielder that can play right field, center field, and at first base, which means if a player gets injured in those positions they have a reliable person they can put in that spot. With the Red Sox being in a stretch like this where every game matters it is very important to make sure to have people that won't cost you on the defensive side either. This year he has no errors playing right field, and he only made two errors playing right field and 1st base for the last two seasons with the Oakland A's. Yeah he only had six homeruns, 37 R.B.I.'s, and a .289 avg in 88 games with the Braves, but he is someone that's been around the league a while and he can come up with big hits when needed. As he showed on Wednesday evening as his two-run triple in the 8th inning gave them the 5-4 win over the Orioles. In six games with the Redsox he has 8 hits, 5 doubles, and 7 R.B.I's yeah those aren't huge numbers, but they are helpful and the question asks about an "immediate impact" and I think he has done that so far. He has proven with injuries to guys like Mike Lowell and JD Drew, he is someone that can fill the void and do his job, what's wrong with having a "role-player?" sometimes having good role-players can be a key to a championship.

Kotsay (who was hot in August) may have never averaged 100 R.B.I.'s in one season, but it is not about that, Josh Beckett said it in an interview "he's one of those leader type guys". He is a veteran that brings a good addition to your lineup on the hitting and fielding side, yeah he doesn't have a ton of playoff experience, but he does good things for your team. He's already made an impact and I think he will continue to do that, the guy is 32 and he's mainly a rental to have some insurance going into the playoffs, but this is a good deal for the Red Sox here. Many were skeptical about what Jason Bay was going to do for the Red Sox and he did well when he first came to the team. Not to mention he gets to hit in a lineup that has Youkilis, Pedroia (who has been on fire), Big Papi, and Jason Bay it makes a whole lot easier for him to gain confidence and hit better too.

Scoring

Ken Schmidt I don't know why I open each scoring section with a rip on Garmer but I am doing it anyway AGAIN, thank you for whipping out the dictionary Sean, I feel like I am in high school debate class where half of the person's arguments were changing definitions. The fact of the matter is that Red Sox corner outfielders have gone from a huge strength to a major weakness. Both of their all-stars in the corners are not playing (Drew and Ramirez, injury and trade) and their centerfield position has crumbled (awful batting average for the speedy Jacoby). The fact is Kotsay is atleast an experienced been there before rental out there and they need it because the Rays are for real. Point to Garmer.

Dan Owen Were Kotsay some bland, run-of-the-mill guy from forgotten corners of baseball, I would give Csonka the point. However, Kotsay has the one quality that you can't really ever see by stats, in that he is a true clubhouse leader. The Red Sox need a guy like that right now to unite the team as the go up against the Rays, who have yet to really falter. Point to Garmer.

Garmer is out of the box fast its 5-1!


4. The Mets bullpen will be the main reason the Phillies make the playoffs.

Sean Garmer: FACT. Not that the Mets couldn't go on a hitting slump, but they have too many good bats for that too happen all at once. After the implosion of last year, its funny thinking it could happen to them again. It's also sad to see because of the great pitching that the Mets have with Johan Santana, Mike Pelfrey (who has done very well as of late), Oliver Perez. John Maine (who has been inconsistent but he's still serviceable,) there's also Pedro Martinez has played half the season and though he's 4-3 when he's fit and interested he has given them six to seven innings at time too. The Phillies have enough great hitters and good pitchers of their own (Cory Hamels, Jamie Moyer, Kyle Kendrick) not to mention they have a closer that is 31 for 31 in the save department, something the Mets wish they had. I can count just this month, seven times where the bullpen screwed the Mets. On August 1st and August 2nd, in games against the Astros, the bullpen allowed Mark Loretta a grand slam, then the next night Billy Wagner blows a save. Wagner is only 27 for 34 on his save opportunities this year giving him 7 blown saves, not to mention he's caused the team to go into a carousel of closers because he's injured a lot. Then let's see on August 18th the Mets blew it again, on August 24th, Pedro Feliciano gives up two homeruns in the 10th to lose the game for the Mets. August 26th, Pedro gives up five, but the Mets have a 7 run lead at that point. Mets bullpen proceeds to give Ken's Phillies an 8-7 win. Then more recently on August 29th and 30th, it takes a grand slam in the bottom of the ninth for the Mets to prevent another bullpen-initiated loss. The next night the bullpen fails again as Mike Pelfrey gave them a 3-2 lead heading into the 7th, and they blow it including the winning run in the 9th to lose 4-3 against the Marlins. That is woeful and it happens so frequently that really I don't see how the Mets are going to hold on. The Phillies are playing well right now, most recently disposing of the Cubs on Saturday night. With the Mets bullpen being this awful, how can the bullpen not be the reason, cause every other area gives the Mets a chance to win.

Larry Csonka: FICTION: I will keep this short, how about we stop making excuses about a team or person not doing well and say that it is because of someone else, and let's place blame on the person or team. Let's not blame the bullpen or one person here, let's call it like it is. If the Mets fail again it is because they CHOKED under the pressure. If the Phillies make it in, it is because they ended up being the better team over 162 games. Simplicity.

Scoring

Ken Schmidt Even though I like to award the one who did their research the best that fact of the matter is the Mets weakest department can't equate an entire crumble. It's a team sports Garmer. Point to Mr. Simplicity Csonka

Dan Owen You know, I'm surprised myself, but I'm giving the point here to Larry. He's right, you can point the finger on one guy or a group of guys, but in the end the game of baseball is won or lost by the whole team. I know it sounds weird, but having been on a team expected to win it all by the media (high school ball), it's really about the team psyche as a whole, and when guys start to lose faith, that's when you see thing really fall apart on the field.


5. De La Hoya vs. Pacquiao will be a fight worth ordering.

Sean Garmer: FACT. Manny Pacquiao and De La Hoya share similar things, as they are both flag bearers for their respective countries. De La Hoya is a Mexican-American that won a Gold Medal in 1992, and is the only Mexican to win a title in six different classes, not to mention he is the wealthiest fighter of all-time with almost 600 million to his name generated from his fights, with his last one against Mayweather selling out in three hours. This has also been touted as possibly De La Hoya's last fight that alone will make it worth ordering. De La Hoya is 39-5 in his career with 30 KO's, though he has lost to Shane Mosley, Bernard Hopkins, and Floyd Mayweather most recently, but he did comeback to beat Ricardo Mayorga. If this is going to be De La Hoya's last fight he will be interested. Pacquiao has to gain at least 12 pounds to get to the Welterweight line that was set for the fight to happen. Pacquiao himself is 47-3-2 and hasn't lost since 2005 and that was to Erik Morales, who he went on to beat two other times. Pacquiao is also the first Asian fighter to win a title in four different divisions. So this will be a tough fight and is not going be any kind of cakewalk. With the Heavyweight side of things not replete with huge names anymore, I think this is one of the best fights that boxing could ask for, De La Hoya surprised a lot of people in his fight with Mayweather going to a 12 round split-decision and Pacquiao has been on a tear since 2005. The Golden Boy I feel will make this interesting and people should go order it because it is a battle between a legend and Ring Magazine, and 411's "pound-for-pound" best fighter in the world, trust me the money is gonna be flowing for this one in December.

Larry Csonka: FACT: Flag bearers aside, not only will this be worth ordering but it will be MANY BUYS. Sean has the records and all of that good stuff laid out for us here, and that is part of it. No one wants to see a fight between two guys with shitty records like 4-43-3 vs. 7-32-1. Although I would actually like to see that because those bastards would be swinging for the fences. But the facts are this: De La Hoya's career is closing in on him. He is a name, he is a draw and yes he still can fight. The Mayweather fight drew INSANE business, and I don't care what anyone says you can make a case either way in that one, I personally had it a draw. De La Hoya knows how to promote, he knows how to get people excited and he still knows how to deliver in the ring. Arguing about De la Hoya not fighting in the division aside, those things I listed do NOT change. Manny Pacquiao is a dangerous man in four different divisions, but this will be a big test for him to not only gain the weight in order to battle De la Hoya, but to keep the speed and overall quickness that has defines him as a fighter. And that is where the extra excitement comes in for me. If he keeps that speed and quickness, he will then possess the same things that Mayweather had, and they caused problems for Oscar. But what is even more important that all of this is the fact that I have a ton of friends from college that used to LOVE boxing, but they now despise the sport. They have completely turned to MMA for their combat sport needs. Half of them passed on De la Hoya vs. Mayweather. But all of them are HYPED for this and are going to order the show. To me that says a LOT.

Scoring

Ken Schmidt I hate when Csonka uses his clichés from the wrestling section here but he is right, and I have read his buys/no buys section and he is right here, this thing is going to be overhyped for the over the hill wonder. It's gonna sell. Point to Csonka.

Dan Owen The point here goes to Larry, as he's right to bring MMA into the argument. Boxing is no longer the thrill it used to be now that the sleeker, faster, more aggressive MMA has stepped onto the scene. But this fight has the potential to provide the excitement of MMA with the speed of things. I don't even like fighting, but I'll be paying attention to how the game goes.


6. Jamie Moyer will pitch until he is 50.

Sean Garmer: FACT.There have been two pitchers that played into their fifties; in the national league, Jack Quinn pitched his last game when he was 2 days into his 50th year of life, while in the American league Satchel Paige pitched his last game when he was 59. However, that was before the modern era. Nolan Ryan hung it up at 46 and there have been many others to get to 44 and 45, but pitching at the age of 50 for hard throwing pitchers is tough and that's why you see them wind down with age and injury, as their arms get tired. However, Jamie Moyer is known as a slow ball pitcher, his biggest weapon is his changeup and that he hasn't been injured much in the latter stages of his career. Actually, if you look at Moyer's career, which started the year I was born in 1986, he didn't start doing well until he got his second season with the Seattle Mariners in 1997 where he won 17 games. After that, Moyer has won at least 13 games in every season except for the blip that was 2004. He is currently 12-7, ultimately Moyer has proven one thing he is always gonna have a high ERA as his career avg. is 4.19 normally not excusable for any pitcher except for Moyer because all the experience he has in his 21 years. In fact, in an interview he gave with MLB.com Moyer said he now keeps a little black book on opposing batters to keep tabs on them throughout the years, instead of studying the lineup over and over like he used to do in his former years. He was actually asked this very question in an interview and he said, "that's five years away, right now I feel good and I'm hitting ok, but I wouldn't rule it out." The fact that people have him thinking about it, makes me think he very well could. Sure Moyer could have a huge drop in form and be forced to retire. Considering how well he takes care of himself and how he hasn't been injured much over the years I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if there is a pitcher out there that could pitch till he is 50 it is Jaime Moyer.

Larry Csonka: FACT: Again, considering that he is 46-years old I hate these kinds of questions because he could have his arm ripped off by a tiger tomorrow, but I will play along. In an era where guys lift more weight, take steroids and HGH and are all about power, Moyer is the definition of the finesse pitcher. The man utilizes a 79-83 mph fastball with VERY late movement along with a circle changeup, cut fastball, and a curveball. While Sean is right about the little book Moyer keeps, the man goes beyond that as a true student of the sport and has video recordings on almost EVERY batter that he faces, and he takes the time to study these prior to a game. He was able to have great years in 2003 and 2005, and is a solid 12-7 as I write this. He once again is piling up innings, has only 18 HR's against him and has twice as many strikeouts as walks. He's productive, doesn't have a history of injuries and the way he pitches doesn't tire his arm out since he isn't throwing like Nolan Ryan. If he can avoid tiger attacks, Moyer can make it, if he wants too.

Scoring

Ken Schmidt Ok this question is hypothetically being asked thinking that Jamie Moyer will have two arms for the rest of his life. For the record Jamie Moyer is going to pitch on 3 DAYS REST this weekend. 3! The man truly is a genius in combining staying healthy and pitching effectively. Point goes to Garmer because he brought the most to the table and I can't pick a winner so that makes it 3-3 in my scoring. It's all on you D.O.

Dan Owen > I'll give the point to Garmer here, because I found the fact about Moyer taking so long to really develop interesting, and other than that I don't really think one of you made a better argument. Also, Ken, two questions about the Phillies??? I call shenanigans, I better see some stuff about the Vikings or Twins next week.

Final Score Be careful what you ask for Dan you just might get it in another tiebreaker coming back ASAP to see who will meet Sean Garmer, a true underdog, in the finals. Garmer defeated two heavily favored powerhouses Bayani Domingo and Larry Csonka.

First Round	Quarterfinals	Semifinals	FINALS
May 18 James Thomlison vs. Porfirio Diaz	July 20 James Thomlison vs. Dan Schmidt	August 17 James Thomlison vs. Shawn Lealos	August 31 ??? vs. Sean Garmer
May 25 Dan Schmidt vs. B.L. Anderson
June 1 Geoff Keller vs. Shawn Lealos	July 27 Shawn Lealos vs. Ron Martin
June 8 Ron Martin vs. Jared Marcus
June 15 Sean Garmer vs. Bayani Domingo	August 3 Sean Garmer vs. Sat	August 24 Sean Garmer vs. Larry Csonka
June 22 Jerrome Cusson vs. Sat
June 29 Randy Isbelle vs. Jake Chambers	August 10 Randy Isbelle vs. Larry Csonka
July 6 Blake Lovell vs. Larry Csonka