Big Mike Watters
Semi-Professional Poker Player
Reged: 08/08/02
Posts: 508703
Loc: Buffalo, NY USA
|
|
Hey mano...I just read the My Views up on the wrasslin' main page...I just wanted to ask you something...but first let me preface:
1. I appreciate your distaste for this storyline, as it parallels your real life, and the loss of your Dad. I think everybody wishes/wished/gave you their best thoughts and prayers during that time. I've lost parents, too. It ain't easy.
2. I understand your people still in the business don't like it...almost to the man.
That being said...I'd like to point something out about the article and your views(pun intended)...
Quote:
I was curious and asked some of my former wrestling running buddies what they thought of this, and 99% of them thought that it was a spit in the face to people that had passed. Yes, people in the business thought this was bullshit.
I believe that they told you that...but can I ask...are any of these people involved with WWE or any other National touring group? Is it possible that these same folks who say this would jump at the chance of being, just as an example, the bomber in this situation? Evil Rikishi 2007(tm)? I am just wondering that. It's easy to hate on something like this...yet I would think the vast majority of these folks in business who poo-poo(that one's for you, Phlesh) it, would jump at the chance to be involved with it as well. Your thoughts?
Quote:
Some people are going to email me and say, "But Larry, they killed the character Mr. McMahon, like on a TV show. You don't get pissed when that happens!" All right, there is a difference. When McClain Stevenson was written off M*A*S*H and Lt. Col. Henry Blake was killed over the sea of Japan, they didn't come back on the next week and have Alan Alda talk like McClain Stevenson was dead. There is a difference, and to me this is in poor taste.
Again...while I consider the angle bad for other reasons...I don't see the difference here. The character, Vince McMahon...or "Mr. McMahon" if you will, was played by a guy by the name of Vince McMahon. If you are thinking TV...there is no difference. Your thoughts?
That's all I got. Thanks, mano. Good article...
--------------------
"Poker is nice. I love to play poker." -- Chau Giang
DOYLISM OF THE DAY: “Winning is not everything – but making the effort to win is.”
FREE FLASHCHAT AT BIGMIKEWATTERS.COM!!!
|
THE Larry Csonka
Super Bowl VIII MVP
Reged: 03/03/03
Posts: 8745
Loc: North Carolina...Formerly of P...
|
|
First off Big Mitchell, I appreciate the “level headedness” and candor you used here, much better that the normal mail I get.
To address your points as well as I can:
Quote:
I believe that they told you that...but can I ask...are any of these people involved with WWE or any other National touring group? Is it possible that these same folks who say this would jump at the chance of being, just as an example, the bomber in this situation? Evil Rikishi 2007(tm)? I am just wondering that. It's easy to hate on something like this...yet I would think the vast majority of these folks in business who poo-poo(that one's for you, Phlesh) it, would jump at the chance to be involved with it as well. Your thoughts?
Oh I have no doubt that 99% of them would JUMP at the chance to work for the E, even if it meant working n this particular storyline. If you are in the business and don’t want to make TNA (to a lesser degree) or the E, then you are fooling yourself. I would have given a left nut to do a job match/Heat Match for the E. The main thing they hated was the “10-Bell Salute” being devalued.
Quote:
Again...while I consider the angle bad for other reasons...I don't see the difference here. The character, Vince McMahon...or "Mr. McMahon" if you will, was played by a guy by the name of Vince McMahon. If you are thinking TV...there is no difference. Your thoughts?
My biggest problem is that they have, in my opinion, taken the GOOD THINGS hey have done: Tribute shows, the 10-bell salute, and bastardized it, IMO. These shows were made to look like the fine tributes they gave guys like Eddie and Owen. And then Sherri dies, and all she gets is a 5-second “In Memory of.” Following that, JR and King has to try and put over her career, while still pushing “The death of Mr. McMahon.” They have taken something I enjoy and made it difficult for me to watch, IMO it’s the kind of thing that makes people hide the fact that they are fans.
That’s about it. I hope that clears things up.
--------------------
*UFC 68: The Uprising Pick 'Em Co-Champion~!
*UFC 75: Champion vs. Champion Undisputed Pick 'Em Champion of the Universe~!
*UFC 79: Nemesis Pick 'Em Champion~!
*The Only One to Pick the Giants to Win the Super Bowl in the Staff Roundtable~!
*Sengoku 4: Pick 'Em Champion~!
|
Definitely NOT Nick Marsico
'the grey squirrel'
Reged: 08/18/04
Posts: 2476
Loc: New Jersey
|
|
To be fair, just about everybody who passes that isn't currently on WWE television only get the quick 5 second 'In Memory Of' and JR and King quickly talking about their life... half the time they don't even mention it, they just show the graphic and move on with the show.
On top of that, I don't think it's cheapening or bastardizing the Owen or Eddy shows because these shows are much different. The Owen and Eddy shows were straight up tributes. They were matches and promos about the two men. No storylines were done, nobody kayfabed it up. On all of the shows since Vince died, it really has been business as usual. Everybody is still feuding with who they were feuding with, other storylines are still progressing, and everything else is continuing just about the same as it would if Vince hadn't 'died'.
That's the big difference for me, and why I don't see it as very similar at all to the tribute shows to Eddy and Owen. Hell, even the first night after the explosion, they claimed it was a Vince tribute show, and the main event was the beginning of an angle for the ECW title. A tribute show would have just seen a match where nothing is begun or furthered; just a standalone match.
--------------------
LISTEN TO RBR: Weekly Wrestling Talk!
RBRWrestling dot com
Every Saturday night at 8PM eastern, or subscribe to the Podcast on iTunes
|
Travis V Penguington
Pistols for Penguins
Reged: 12/27/02
Posts: 18764
|
|
My big big biggest complaint about the whole thing was the ten bell salute.
While they didn't have the superstars out on the ramp (that would have really been horrible) it still felt....really cheap to me.
--------------------
|
The Rock
Better Than You
Reged: 03/24/04
Posts: 7192
|
|
Good points all around, all. And big props to everyone for taking the high road on this thing rather than resorting to the typical net-banter name-calling that we usually see when somebody disagrees around here. After reading what all everybody's written, here's some "MeeThinks" -- questions, really -- both for LTC and anybody else who feels so inclined to share their thoughts:
1) WWE is currently kayfabing a Mick Foley "skull crushing" injury. Now of course we all know he's fine... but regardless, the company is "working us" with a pretty serious injury storyline just the same (come to think of it, they're doing the same for HBK and RVD). Point being? Fake injuries that play to real human emotion have long been a staple of professional wrestling (hello, Abyss), right? Right. If so -- and by logical extension of the "fake death = cheapens real death" maxim -- doesn't each "fake injury", in turn, cheapen the real ones? After all, how dare they tell us "yes, this is entertainment... but the hazards are real" when, in fact, sometimes the hazards/injuries/etc. we see play out before us are, in fact, nothing more than part of the ENTERTAINMENT?
Point blank -- if faked deaths cheapen real deaths, then it's no stretch to say faked injuries cheapen real injuries. So three weeks ago when Scotty Steiner's larynx was crushed for real... did that mean TNA instantly had to kill the "Christian and his goons put Abyss out of action" storyline? After all, it's pretty callous of them to lie to their fans and continue to sell a guy's fake injury (when Chris Parks was no doubt alive and well, and yucking it up with the boys backstage) when another performer is LEGIT injured and stranded in a foreign country because he's too ill to board a plane. Not to sound too much like a typical kid who debates on the internet here... but really now, "you can't have it both ways."
2) If you'll notice (this is the minutiae that English grad students like yours truly go nuts over) -- every single time anyone talks about the Vince storyline on TV, they are very careful NOT to say the words "dead" or "death" or "Vince McMahon." Note both the proper noun being used ("Mr." instead of "Vince") and the verb ("demise"/"loss"/etc. over "death").
Sure, even though they're implying "death" when saying things like "demise," it bears noting that NOBODY has come right out and said (on WWE TV, at least) McMahon "passed away" or "is dead" or "his death." That's simply not the case with the *real* tribute shows (Eddie, Owen, etc.) or when performers addressed the *real* deaths of stars who died while on WWE's payroll (Pillman, Crash Holly, etc.).
|
THE Larry Csonka
Super Bowl VIII MVP
Reged: 03/03/03
Posts: 8745
Loc: North Carolina...Formerly of P...
|
|
I get where you are goign with the injury deal, especially since I have hated the concussion angle they an with Orton.
I think my main thing is, this is a business with a lot of death in it, and not natural deaths, deaths brought on by the "vices" so to speak of the lifestyle. So from that, I think running a death angle is in bad taste. I have known a lot of guys that have passed, I have been a part of a lot of 10-bell salutes, and to see it done liek this bothers me.
In the end, i never expect anyone to agree with anything i write because it is my own opinion. Somepeople are very entertained by this, and good for them. I am not entertained nor do i think that it is right.
--------------------
*UFC 68: The Uprising Pick 'Em Co-Champion~!
*UFC 75: Champion vs. Champion Undisputed Pick 'Em Champion of the Universe~!
*UFC 79: Nemesis Pick 'Em Champion~!
*The Only One to Pick the Giants to Win the Super Bowl in the Staff Roundtable~!
*Sengoku 4: Pick 'Em Champion~!
|
Purge46
411's #1 Negrew!
Reged: 03/31/03
Posts: 18662
|
|
Quote:
My big big biggest complaint about the whole thing was the ten bell salute.
While they didn't have the superstars out on the ramp (that would have really been horrible) it still felt....really cheap to me.
They did during at least one of the shows, maybe Smackdown.
|
Arthur Mitchell
I'm just a normal school teacher who leads prayer at church on Sunday and I enjoy a good scotch.
Reged: 01/28/04
Posts: 29225
|
|
Quote:
I get where you are goign with the injury deal, especially since I have hated the concussion angle they an with Orton.
I think my main thing is, this is a business with a lot of death in it, and not natural deaths, deaths brought on by the "vices" so to speak of the lifestyle. So from that, I think running a death angle is in bad taste. I have known a lot of guys that have passed, I have been a part of a lot of 10-bell salutes, and to see it done liek this bothers me.
In the end, i never expect anyone to agree with anything i write because it is my own opinion. Somepeople are very entertained by this, and good for them. I am not entertained nor do i think that it is right.
I concur. This is pretty shitty on their part, unless it ends in something goofy like "zombie vince".
They actually did ten bell salutes on all 3 shows. 
--------------------
Four Walls - We Build Homes
|
Harvey Birdman
FRAME ELBOW, BITCH!!
Reged: 06/11/03
Posts: 5191
Loc: Boner City
|
|
I would love to see them do a Vince Goes to Heaven or Vince Goes to Hell storyline ala Ray Smuckles. That would redeem the whole thing.
--------------------
"i don't have time to argue with obvious living with mommy sword swallowers" - The King
|
Travis V Penguington
Pistols for Penguins
Reged: 12/27/02
Posts: 18764
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
My big big biggest complaint about the whole thing was the ten bell salute.
While they didn't have the superstars out on the ramp (that would have really been horrible) it still felt....really cheap to me.
They did during at least one of the shows, maybe Smackdown.
I didn't watch smackdown this past time. Well that's pretty fucked up if so. That's Eddie/Owen type stuff there.
--------------------
|
Purge46
411's #1 Negrew!
Reged: 03/31/03
Posts: 18662
|
|
Like Ash said, there's been about 30 bell salutes. Sherri got a quick graphic like an hour and a half into the show.
|
FUCKING ALPACA BITCHES!
I AM THE GRUMPUS!!!
Reged: 03/22/06
Posts: 17397
Loc: Alpacaland
|
|
Quote:
I would love to see them do a Vince Goes to Heaven or Vince Goes to Hell storyline ala Ray Smuckles. That would redeem the whole thing.
Yeah, this would make it the greatest storyline ever. Even BETTER if they included Smuckles in it.
|
Harvey Birdman
FRAME ELBOW, BITCH!!
Reged: 06/11/03
Posts: 5191
Loc: Boner City
|
|
Can you imagine the gloriousness of a CGI Owen Hart angel kneeing Vince in the groin?
--------------------
"i don't have time to argue with obvious living with mommy sword swallowers" - The King
|
FUCKING ALPACA BITCHES!
I AM THE GRUMPUS!!!
Reged: 03/22/06
Posts: 17397
Loc: Alpacaland
|
|
FUCKING AWESOME. OMG!
|
T-Shower
Greatest Poster Ever
Reged: 06/28/01
Posts: 11643
Loc: Perth, West Australia
|
|
A man dies and all you guys can do is whinge about him and the company he put his heart and soul into. Very classy.
My only hope is that he leads a zombie army to crush the WWE. That would teach you guys a lesson.
--------------------
"A lot of people masturbate to see who is fastest. I masturbate to see who has the most guts, who can punish himself into exhausting pace, and then at the end, punish himself even more. Nobody is going to win a 5,000 hour wank after jacking an easy 2 minutes. Not with me. If I lose forcing the pace all the way, well, at least I can play with myself." - Prefontaine the Gay
My pleasure is your pleasure's pain.
Anyone can jerk off 100 times. It's the next 4900 that count.
"Tough times don't last but tough penises do." A.C. Green, Champion Masturbator
WANKING RESUME:
5 times - 16:45, 2 times - 10:20
8 times - 28:03, 10 times - 37:03
HALF CENTURY - 1:23:45 CENTURY - 3:05:41
|
Definitely NOT Nick Marsico
'the grey squirrel'
Reged: 08/18/04
Posts: 2476
Loc: New Jersey
|
|
As for Sherri's graphic, that's exactly the same thing that the majority of people who aren't currently on camera get when they die, so there's nothing there for anybody to try to harp on.
For injuries, an injury is a lot different from death. I get what you mean, but injuries are a big part in all sports, wrestling included, and are played up as something that happens all the time. An injury is nowhere near as catastrophic as death. When you get injured you generally are gone for a little while and then you come back. Or, if you get a career ending injury, you're gone, but every once in a while you show up somewhere or do an appearance -- people see you, you talk to people, etc. In death, that's it. Nobody ever sees or hears from you again; it's just all over. That's the big difference here between a death angle and an injury angle.
That's kind of just me playing devil's advocate in a way, because I'm not bothered by the Vince angle at all, or the Orton injuring people angles. I don't like the Orton stuff simply because I don't like Orton and don't think he deserves to come off as that dominating, and the video packages they've made for RVD and HBK were almost unbearably boring.
Also, Rocky, they haven't kept away from the word "dead", they're just saying "presumed" before using it. But they've often said "presumed dead" and "presumed deceased". They've used the other words as well, but dead was certainly in there. Oh, and Puerto Rico isn't a foreign country.
--------------------
LISTEN TO RBR: Weekly Wrestling Talk!
RBRWrestling dot com
Every Saturday night at 8PM eastern, or subscribe to the Podcast on iTunes
|
Arthur Mitchell
I'm just a normal school teacher who leads prayer at church on Sunday and I enjoy a good scotch.
Reged: 01/28/04
Posts: 29225
|
|
Quote:
A man dies and all you guys can do is whinge about him and the company he put his heart and soul into. Very classy.
My only hope is that he leads a zombie army to crush the WWE. That would teach you guys a lesson.
hahaa
--------------------
Four Walls - We Build Homes
|
-Travis H Woopington-
Administrator
Reged: 07/16/04
Posts: 9934
Loc: Loserville, Jerkinboro
|
|
HAHA
I still say that there has been much more offensive stuff in wrestling (including WWE). I think their past tribute shows are not all about WWE doing something out of the kindness of Vince's heart so even that reason doesn't fly with me. I understand some people's reasons for not liking the storyline, but it's entertaining me (for now).
--------------------
I have conformed to this forum's objectification of women standards.
I am ashamed of myself.
Edited by HW-Classic (06/21/07 09:55 PM)
|
ScottyFlamingo
411-ite
Reged: 07/13/06
Posts: 3094
|
|
My father passed away two weeks ago and I totally echo Larry's sentiments.
It isn't that the angle offended me so much. I've learned to not be surprised at any level of tastelessness of the E. But to see them trying to garner sympathy for Stephanie and Shane because the "spent Father's Day without a father" really got to me considering that I actually WAS in that situation.
|
ppr
HOME RUN KING
Reged: 10/13/03
Posts: 3043
|
|
many of you sound like foolish marks
if you dont like it dont watch it
i dont watch it and look at me
im doing great ! ! !
--------------------
the world gets stronger as you start trying things
turn around towards being born away from dying
|
Master of the Big Money
Hate to be nitpicky, but could you remove my last user title from the end of the new one? Thanks.
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 5511
Loc: Richmond, VA
|
|
Quote:
My father passed away two weeks ago and I totally echo Larry's sentiments.
It isn't that the angle offended me so much. I've learned to not be surprised at any level of tastelessness of the E. But to see them trying to garner sympathy for Stephanie and Shane because the "spent Father's Day without a father" really got to me considering that I actually WAS in that situation.
Scotty, I'm sorry for your loss and I in no way mean to trivalize it. I only offer my thoughts on WWE's part in telling their story.
This is a MAJOR story. It's taken out one of their top characters and it's managed to make the main media. It's increaed WWE.com's traffic and it has endless potential. On Father's Day weekend when they have one of the most well known TV fathers "presumed dead" how could you not include that aspect of the story, especially if the children are to play a role in the forthcoming story? I can certainly understand how a situation like that would be uncomfortable or even angering to you, but I hope you could see my point in how the story is presented to the rest of the audience that may not have the same unfortunate experiences or emotions that you have.
|
ScottyFlamingo
411-ite
Reged: 07/13/06
Posts: 3094
|
|
It just really shows the division of newer fans and older fans. Newer fans view wrestling as a TV show like The Office. I don't personally believe that it is. I think it has always been a different animal.
I'll give you an example of why this doesn't work using a fictional show. On Seinfeld, George's boss was George Steinbriner, a real person. Now if Seinfeld had killed of Steinbriner on their show, it wouldn't work, because there really is a George Steinbriner that we know is alive and well. On the other side, if Steinbriner died in real life, they couldn't have him still alive on the show without coming up with an explanation like the stories took place in the past.
As much as people keep saying that Vince McMahon and Mr. McMahon are different, they really aren't. Mr. McMahon is portrayed as the owner of the WWE and exactly the same as Vince McMahon.
Besides, they could've waited a week to do the angle. It would've actually been better since it wouldn't have taken away from the draft.
|
Bobby Not 21
Greatest Human Being Ever
Reged: 04/13/06
Posts: 17366
|
|
But that would have lost the entire roster being there. And the legends. You lose over 2/3s of the suspects. And for the wrestling isn't a TV show thing. Yes it is, you just got accustomed to thinking otherwise. But it is now and always has been a fictional entertainment medium like a TV show or play.
--------------------
UNDISPUTED AND UNDEFEATED 411MANIA 2007 BEST POSTER TO STEP FOOT IN WRESTLING. FUCK YOU DIVAS AND DMAN
|
ScottyFlamingo
411-ite
Reged: 07/13/06
Posts: 3094
|
|
I don't agree. The current WWE product may be treating it that way, but I guarantee there are plenty of wrestlers that agree with my viewpoint.
In Foley's second book, he talks about his empty arena match with the Rock being ruined by a point of view camera angle. There were plenty of complaints when Hogan saw the Warrior in the mirror in WCW and no one else could. If it was "just another show" there should've been no problems with either.
|
Bobby Not 21
Greatest Human Being Ever
Reged: 04/13/06
Posts: 17366
|
|
Nope, people here will bitch about anything. People bitch when there's not enough wrestling, other people bitch when there's too much wrestling. People bitch for anything you can think of. They could give Punk/Benoit 30 minutes this Sunday and for every 10 of you who loved it, there would be one much louder person bitching. it is the way of the internet.
People bitching proves nothing.People bitch about TV too. People bitch about the Soprono's ending being left open, about Entourage not having enough drama (not Johnny) even though it's a comedy.
And yes there are people who don't accept wrestling as just another TV show, but it is in a way another TV show. (and in other ways it isn't, don't get me wrong on that it's not the same as Law and Order or anything)
--------------------
UNDISPUTED AND UNDEFEATED 411MANIA 2007 BEST POSTER TO STEP FOOT IN WRESTLING. FUCK YOU DIVAS AND DMAN
|
Travis C. Poopington
Living Legend
Reged: 03/15/03
Posts: 62093
|
|
The Seinfeld argument is flawed. Of course if Steinbrenner had died, they would have had to deal with that, like when John Ritter died for whatever show he was on, or Phil Hartman on Newsradio. It's happened before, it'll happen again. I grant you that.
But to say they couldn't kill him off because he exists? Not true at all. Seinfeld was a work of fiction. Which allows it to take liberties with what happens in the real world. To give a more current example, 24. There was never a Senator David Palmer that I'm aware of. But 24 sure made there be one. Or on Dallas, when JR got shot (nevermind how they resolved it). The actor didn't get shot, the character he was playing did. That's the distinction you're failing to make here.
George S. is a real person, but on the show, it's just a character. To argue otherwise is to ignore the fact that Costanza never actually worked with him. Since he was a fictional character, obviously George C. never worked for the Yankees. So to say they couldn't have killed off Steinbrenner is silly, of course they could have, it was a work of fiction.
I mean, you don't think that Undertaker is some undead mystic, that the Dudley Boys are actually siblings, or any of that Katie Vick nonsense do you? It's all about kayfabe. We all know that none of this is true, that even when Shawn Michaels and HHH are deadly rivals they're still good friends (OMG KLIQ), that HHH didn't actually shanghai Stephanie from her true love Test, that Vince didn't kidnap his own daughter in some twisted scheme to get at Austin.
That's why you HAVE to treat the WWE like a show like the Office. If you don't, it all falls apart, just like most non-reality TV shows would if you started poking holes at things that don't seem entirely plausible. No, Keifer Sutherland isn't a secret agent, and Steve Carell doesn't work for some paper company. It's all a work of fiction.
Just like the WWE. And it has been since day one.
--------------------
|
ScottyFlamingo
411-ite
Reged: 07/13/06
Posts: 3094
|
|
Quote:
The Seinfeld argument is flawed. Of course if Steinbrenner had died, they would have had to deal with that, like when John Ritter died for whatever show he was on, or Phil Hartman on Newsradio. It's happened before, it'll happen again. I grant you that.
But to say they couldn't kill him off because he exists? Not true at all. Seinfeld was a work of fiction. Which allows it to take liberties with what happens in the real world. To give a more current example, 24. There was never a Senator David Palmer that I'm aware of. But 24 sure made there be one. Or on Dallas, when JR got shot (nevermind how they resolved it). The actor didn't get shot, the character he was playing did. That's the distinction you're failing to make here.
It is not the same thing. JR was played by Larry Hagman. The character was portrayed as a seperate entity.
Quote:
George S. is a real person, but on the show, it's just a character. To argue otherwise is to ignore the fact that Costanza never actually worked with him. Since he was a fictional character, obviously George C. never worked for the Yankees. So to say they couldn't have killed off Steinbrenner is silly, of course they could have, it was a work of fiction.
They could have, but I believe that it would have detrimentally effected the show. Maybe not on a major level. But I believe that it would take you out of it.
I've taken writing courses and one of the things they talk about is that even in a fictional universe, there are "laws" that need to be set up and honored, else it hurts the story.
You would not have an alien land in the middle of a John Wayne western because that goes against the rules of the universe you've set up.
Quote:
I mean, you don't think that Undertaker is some undead mystic, that the Dudley Boys are actually siblings, or any of that Katie Vick nonsense do you? It's all about kayfabe. We all know that none of this is true, that even when Shawn Michaels and HHH are deadly rivals they're still good friends (OMG KLIQ), that HHH didn't actually shanghai Stephanie from her true love Test, that Vince didn't kidnap his own daughter in some twisted scheme to get at Austin.
Part of the reason I've always despised Kane is because his storylines have always pushed the boundaries of reality. I also don't like when they make Undertaker overly supernatural. I prefer it when he is portrayed as a wrestler who uses the Undertaker gimmick to mess with his opponents minds. I also didn't like when HHH and Stephanie got married, but that angle started to work when they actually started dating and then did get married. The closer to reality you can get, the better it works, IMO.
|
-Travis H Woopington-
Administrator
Reged: 07/16/04
Posts: 9934
Loc: Loserville, Jerkinboro
|
|
Quote:
I also didn't like when HHH and Stephanie got married, but that angle started to work when they actually started dating and then did get married. The closer to reality you can get, the better it works, IMO.
That doesn't make sense.
--------------------
I have conformed to this forum's objectification of women standards.
I am ashamed of myself.
|
Past Major Tom
Visiting from the year 1997.
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 11576
Loc: 1997
|
|
I wonder how people that don't watch wrestling view this. They more than likely don't give a fuck and look at this whole thing as homo. Why can't they post here instead?
--------------------
 
Don't even front
You'd shit your pants if I licked your cunt
|
-Travis H Woopington-
Administrator
Reged: 07/16/04
Posts: 9934
Loc: Loserville, Jerkinboro
|
|
Quote:
I wonder how people that don't watch wrestling view this. They more than likely don't give a fuck and look at this whole thing as homo. Why can't they post here instead?
I was about this close () from being one of those people, but the summer and this stupid, yet funny storyline pulled me back in. I lose.
--------------------
I have conformed to this forum's objectification of women standards.
I am ashamed of myself.
|
Definitely NOT Nick Marsico
'the grey squirrel'
Reged: 08/18/04
Posts: 2476
Loc: New Jersey
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
I also didn't like when HHH and Stephanie got married, but that angle started to work when they actually started dating and then did get married. The closer to reality you can get, the better it works, IMO.
That doesn't make sense.
Especially since they didn't get married in real life until well after they were divorced on television.
Also, for what you said about that class you took and the "laws" and rules... as soon as you start believing in that garbage, you limit yourself in creativity. There are NO LAWS OR RULES IN FICTION. There just aren't. There are times where you have to decide what you want to do with a story and how you want to keep your suspension of disbelief, but there are absolutely no set rules for doing it.
--------------------
LISTEN TO RBR: Weekly Wrestling Talk!
RBRWrestling dot com
Every Saturday night at 8PM eastern, or subscribe to the Podcast on iTunes
|
Travis C. Poopington
Living Legend
Reged: 03/15/03
Posts: 62093
|
|
You're trying to make wrestling into reality TV, something it never was, and something I believe it could never work as either. Everyone is a fictional character, otherwise they'd all go by their real names or close proximities. And HHH to Paul Levesque (OMG KAYFABE) ain't that.
And to say that what they've done doesn't work within the rules they've set up is silly. Of course it does; given everything else they've done in the WWE, I'm surprised no one has "died" yet.
--------------------
|
The Amazon
A Winner is You!!!
Reged: 06/23/03
Posts: 3547
|
|
Quote:
Of course it does; given everything else they've done in the WWE, I'm surprised no one has "died" yet.
Actually he's the third, the other two were Al Wilson and Paul Bearer.
--------------------
---
|
Travis C. Poopington
Living Legend
Reged: 03/15/03
Posts: 62093
|
|
Oh right, Al Wilson got sexed to death. Poor bastard.
--------------------
|
We've Got Jis Only in Kenya
The Pussified Powerhouse The Boobified Blockbuster
Reged: 08/05/06
Posts: 11029
|
|
But Paul Bearer, the Undertaker, and Kane have each died like twice (at least).
--------------------
Partners in Pwn: Pwning since 1337
Erectile Dysfunction is awesome, porn is the key to a successful site, and a hooker is a good stand in for a doctor.
"LET'S GET DRUNK AND FARM! AND...FIGHT MONSTERS! THIS IS AN AWESOME IDEA!" ~Ogre
"I do cool shit now like play Shenmue and watch porn." ~Birth
|
ScottyFlamingo
411-ite
Reged: 07/13/06
Posts: 3094
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I also didn't like when HHH and Stephanie got married, but that angle started to work when they actually started dating and then did get married. The closer to reality you can get, the better it works, IMO.
That doesn't make sense.
Especially since they didn't get married in real life until well after they were divorced on television.
Also, for what you said about that class you took and the "laws" and rules... as soon as you start believing in that garbage, you limit yourself in creativity. There are NO LAWS OR RULES IN FICTION. There just aren't. There are times where you have to decide what you want to do with a story and how you want to keep your suspension of disbelief, but there are absolutely no set rules for doing it.
I'm not talking about a rulebook that has to be followed. Every story has rules that YOU SET UP. If you break your own rules, it is not good storytelling.
But I'm not discussing it anymore. This thread was about Larry's article and I agree with it.
|
The Rock
Better Than You
Reged: 03/24/04
Posts: 7192
|
|
here's what i've surmized by reading this thread:
1) SOME people are offended by this angle, and they will continue to be no matter WHAT counterarguments are offered.
2) MANY people are not offended by this angle, and they will not be offended no matter WHAT counterarguments are offered.
in the end? it's a question of personal taste, and "boundaries" as determined by each individual fan. NEITHER side has the right to say "nobody is offended" (not the case) or "everybody is shitting all over this" (also not the case).
|
Travis C. Poopington
Living Legend
Reged: 03/15/03
Posts: 62093
|
|
If you break your own rules, it is not good storytelling.
But death is not forbidden in WWE rules, and the fantastic happens frequently. You may not be fond of when that happens, true, but to say it breaks the WWE's in universe rules of what can and cannot occur? Not true at all.
--------------------
|
Definitely NOT Nick Marsico
'the grey squirrel'
Reged: 08/18/04
Posts: 2476
Loc: New Jersey
|
|
Paul Bearer never died, nor has Kane. Undertaker ascended a couple times, but I don't think it counts as him dying, but rather him leaving to rest in another realm.
--------------------
LISTEN TO RBR: Weekly Wrestling Talk!
RBRWrestling dot com
Every Saturday night at 8PM eastern, or subscribe to the Podcast on iTunes
|
Past Major Tom
Visiting from the year 1997.
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 11576
Loc: 1997
|
|
Paul Bearer died on live Pay-Per-View three years ago.
--------------------
Don't even front
You'd shit your pants if I licked your cunt
Edited by highone (06/25/07 03:01 PM)
|
The Rock
Better Than You
Reged: 03/24/04
Posts: 7192
|
|
Quote:
Paul Bearer died on live Pay-Per-View three years ago, stupid fuck.
not so, says the almighty wikipedia:
Quote:
Undertaker won the match but proceeded afterwards to pull the lever that sent cement into the crypt, completely burying Paul Bearer and, in kayfabe terms, suffocating him. (Pringle was in the crypt throughout the event but was replaced with a stunt double for the burial (who when having huge plants on him, it appears that isn't Bearer because he appears younger). This shot ended the PPV and caused numerous complaints toward WWE, as in essence they had shown a (kayfabe) murder. However, the live audience saw an extended ending in which Bearer surfaced for air and was carried from the arena on a stretcher. On the following week's SmackDown!, Bearer was acknowledged to be alive, although gravely injured, for kayfabe purposes.
|
Past Major Tom
Visiting from the year 1997.
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 11576
Loc: 1997
|
|
That's impossible and doesn't make sense.
--------------------
Don't even front
You'd shit your pants if I licked your cunt
|
mlsq42
Smark Superstar
Reged: 04/06/03
Posts: 6618
Loc: Sydney, Australia
|
|
And this is now meaningless.
--------------------
This is just like Wrestling. It's reality, mixed with illusion, mixed with bullshit, mixed with ... big scary guys from parts unknown, in dire need of psychiatric care.
I Wrote These.
I'm 6'6" and handsome, you're just 5'5" and stupid.
Hail Tara!
|
The Rock
Better Than You
Reged: 03/24/04
Posts: 7192
|
|
it's been meaningless for quite some time, really.
but in a wierd sort of way, if benoit actually *does* turn out to be the guy responsible for today's tragedy... the "tribute to the great role model and family man" is (inadvertantly) actually *much* more offensive than a harmless faked death storyline.
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
