Alex Ewing
Knows jackshit about Robocop
Reged: 05/01/07
Posts: 1927
Loc: Annapolis, MD
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http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091101&content_id=7595224&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.
jsp&c_id=mlb
According to the moronic MLB masses, Derek Jeter had a better offensive season than Joe Mauer.
Jeter: .334/.406/.465, 129 OPS+, 7.3 RC/G
Mauer: .365/.444/.587, 177 OPS+, 10.5 RC/G
Mauer led the American League in Batting Average, On-Base Percentage and Slugging Percentage. He is the only catcher in the history of the sport to lead either league in all three categories. Congratulations casual fans, you never cease to amaze me with your stupidity.
In the upcoming weeks, we'll learn how the BBWAA voted on their awards for the year. I can't wait to see how many idiots didn't vote for Zach Greinke in the AL Cy Young race because of Wins. It should be hilariously infuriating.
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Bobby27
Bleeds Pinstripes
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 9352
Loc: The Palace of Wisdom
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Quote:
In the upcoming weeks, we'll learn how the BBWAA voted on their awards for the year. I can't wait to see how many idiots didn't vote for Zach Greinke in the AL Cy Young race because of Wins. It should be hilariously infuriating.
1. Popularity contest, don't worry about it.
2. Zach Grienke had 16 fucking wins, yes, I understand that's not a lot for a Cy Young Candidate.
That's 16 wins as a Royal. Those should count like 1.5 wins anywhere else.
So in closing yeah I agree with you.
AL Cy Yong:
1. Grienke
2. Felix
3. CC
4. Halladay
5. Lester
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Skittle 4 Mod
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Johnny Pyro
"Third Degree Burn"
Reged: 05/10/03
Posts: 6081
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
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If Jeter wins that MVP over Mauer it'll be beyond ridiculous. I like Jeter. He's one of the few Yankees I've ever liked. But to say he had a better season than Mauer is just plain wrong.
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Volourn
It is an embarrasing sports nonsensical junk.
Reged: 04/22/02
Posts: 1673
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What a dumb thing. Jeter is not better offensively than Mauer. What a joke, Jeter isn't even the best offensive player on his team.
Sadly, this means Jeter is gonna win MVP.. *puke*
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Yes, I'm a Hogan mark and proud of it.
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Travis C. Poopington
Living Legend
Reged: 03/15/03
Posts: 62093
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You should have won for your offensive use of the English language.
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Johnny Pyro
"Third Degree Burn"
Reged: 05/10/03
Posts: 6081
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
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The best way to check for MVP is to remove the player and his stats from his team then figure out if they would have won the games they have won without him.
If you remove Jeter from the Yankees, although he's a vital piece, they would still have done very well this year. Removing Mauer from the Twins, however......
Do the right thing asshole voters......Mauer is your MVP!
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Slaughter
Main Eventer
Reged: 02/09/01
Posts: 7348
Loc: Illinois
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Sadly, while it's totally wrong, I actually can believe it.
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Goob
Sinner AND Saint.
Reged: 09/23/01
Posts: 5100
Loc: Philippi, WV
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Or you could you know, just figure out who had the best season.
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Live passionate, be obsessed, dive deep
Purity of heart is to will one thing.-Kierkegaard
Now with God's help, I shall become myself.- Kierkegaard
Joy is the serious business of heaven.-C.S. Lewis
I think Goob is the person here most people could learn something from, about life, and happiness, and just about everything important.
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Slaughter
Main Eventer
Reged: 02/09/01
Posts: 7348
Loc: Illinois
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Careful, Jeter won a golden glove, retards have infiltrated.
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The tape over your mouth says more than words ever could.
I Locust! Fuck to you!
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Bobby27
Bleeds Pinstripes
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 9352
Loc: The Palace of Wisdom
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I love Derek Jeter winning the Gold Glove.
So much whining, and here's a little secret. Derek Jeter is not now nor has he ever been a bad fielder.
That's right. And I will now explain why if you'd like to read.
For all the talk about Jeter's awful Zone Rating and all that over the years, and terrible talk from the fielding bible, they don't understand fielding quite as much as they like to think either.
Last year the top rated SS in UZR/150, which is according to Alex Ewing mid way through the summer, the new best fielding stat ever, was Orlando Cabrera, one of the best fielders ever, Derek Jeter was near the bottom.
This year Derek Jeter was near the top, and Orlando Cabrera was all the way at the bottom.
What's the common factor?
In 2008 the majority of games Derek Jeter played had Jason Giambi at first base. (And the majority of his games from 2001 until then.)
In 2009 the majority of games Orlando Cabrera played had Jason Giambi at first base.
Jason Giambi you see is one of the worst fielders to ever step on a baseball diamond, he's so bad he negatively affects the rest of his infield.
The second basemen needs to play closer to first to cover for Giambi, the short stop needs to play in to cover for the second basemen. Add these factors in and the Shortstop's range is going to be limited every time.
Bad fielding as a team effort, good fielding a team effort. One weak link in the chain weakens every link in the chain.
No one stat really works. You want to understand fielding watch the games, a lot of them, and watch how the entire team plays with each other.
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Skittle 4 Mod
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Bobby27
Bleeds Pinstripes
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 9352
Loc: The Palace of Wisdom
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I will now sit here as none of you take that seriously because of who wrote it.
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Skittle 4 Mod
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Slaughter
Main Eventer
Reged: 02/09/01
Posts: 7348
Loc: Illinois
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He's not the best fielding shortstop in the AL, I think everyone knows that. He won it because he's a star player.
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The tape over your mouth says more than words ever could.
I Locust! Fuck to you!
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Bobby27
Bleeds Pinstripes
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 9352
Loc: The Palace of Wisdom
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Quote:
He's not the best fielding shortstop in the AL, I think everyone knows that. He won it because he's a star player.
Maybe not, but he's not anywhere near as bad as his detractors love to say.
And he had the best fielding percentage amongst AL SS this year, and the highest Zone rating, so it's not a travesty to give it to him like plenty of fans out there have been treating it.
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Skittle 4 Mod
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Goob
Sinner AND Saint.
Reged: 09/23/01
Posts: 5100
Loc: Philippi, WV
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Jeter did have a good defensive season this year. And really there was no other shortstop in the AL who played better. While others may be a better defender such as Adam Everett or Cabrera, I believe they both also missed substantial periods of time. Bobby may be a enormous homer, but it's no great travesty for Jeter to win the gold glove this season. Other times he's won, you could have probably had a case. This year, not as much.
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Live passionate, be obsessed, dive deep
Purity of heart is to will one thing.-Kierkegaard
Now with God's help, I shall become myself.- Kierkegaard
Joy is the serious business of heaven.-C.S. Lewis
I think Goob is the person here most people could learn something from, about life, and happiness, and just about everything important.
-Penguin
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Bobby27
Bleeds Pinstripes
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 9352
Loc: The Palace of Wisdom
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Quote:
Jeter did have a good defensive season this year. And really there was no other shortstop in the AL who played better. While others may be a better defender such as Adam Everett or Cabrera, I believe they both also missed substantial periods of time. Bobby may be a enormous homer, but it's no great travesty for Jeter to win the gold glove this season. Other times he's won, you could have probably had a case. This year, not as much.
I am a homer, but I agree. Jeter didn't deserve the other gold gloves. His limited range may have been caused by Giambi being one of the worst defensive players ever, but it still existed.
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Skittle 4 Mod
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Alex Ewing
Knows jackshit about Robocop
Reged: 05/01/07
Posts: 1927
Loc: Annapolis, MD
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Quote:
For all the talk about Jeter's awful Zone Rating and all that over the years, and terrible talk from the fielding bible, they don't understand fielding quite as much as they like to think either.
You're right Bobby, you understand fielding much better than the godfather of modern baseball statistics. Bill James created OBP, SLG and virtually every statistic that is relevant in today's game. What the fuck does he know?
Quote:
Last year the top rated SS in UZR/150, which is according to Alex Ewing mid way through the summer, the new best fielding stat ever, was Orlando Cabrera, one of the best fielders ever, Derek Jeter was near the bottom.
This year Derek Jeter was near the top, and Orlando Cabrera was all the way at the bottom.
What's the common factor?
Poor range?
Quote:
In 2008 the majority of games Derek Jeter played had Jason Giambi at first base. (And the majority of his games from 2001 until then.)
In 2009 the majority of games Orlando Cabrera played had Jason Giambi at first base.
That's funny, Cabrera actually played more of his games with Darc Barton and later Justin Morneau after his trade to Minnesota.
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Bad fielding as a team effort, good fielding a team effort. One weak link in the chain weakens every link in the chain.
Complete bullshit. Ryan Zimmerman was second in all of baseball in UZR this year with 18.1 and lead all third basemen. His first basemen for this year were Nick Johnson and Adam Dunn. Their UZRs at first? -6.0 and -13.8.
Quote:
No one stat really works. You want to understand fielding watch the games, a lot of them, and watch how the entire team plays with each other.
Because god dammit, the eye test is better than scientific data.
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Bobby27
Bleeds Pinstripes
Reged: 01/23/08
Posts: 9352
Loc: The Palace of Wisdom
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Quote:
You're right Bobby, you understand fielding much better than the godfather of modern baseball statistics. Bill James created OBP, SLG and virtually every statistic that is relevant in today's game. What the fuck does he know?
He did? Becuase I can't find anything about that.
And he did not create every relevant stat. Home Runs, Runs Batted In, Batting Average, Earned Run Average. There's four he didn't.
And besides you know what the difference between OBP and UZR is? OBP is completely and totally objective. You take the amount of hits and the amount of walks, add them together and divide by the number of plate appearance and you have an OBP. It's all there, in the numbers. There's no question about whether or not you reached base 4/10 times you got to the pate if you're there. With zone other factors come into play, for instance the other fielders on your team, if you have to shade towards second to protect a second basemen who's shaded towards first, you're not going to reach a ball in the hole a lot of the time and it's going to show up negatively on your range.
And most importantly, James the dude who's dick you spend all day hanging off of, encourages that stats are not the end all be all of baseball and that you need to look at a lot of factors to have even a remote understanding of baseball.
Quote:
That's funny, Cabrera actually played more of his games with Darc Barton and later Justin Morneau after his trade to Minnesota.
He didn't play the majority of his games with Giambi. You're right I fucked up there. He played about 1/3 of them. I have no idea how his range differed from first basemen to first basemen, but when you pick up bad habits you tend to stick to them. And he probably played more games with Cuddyer than Morneau as Morneau was hurt towards the end. Cuddyer, though no where near Giambi bad, is fairly bad at first.
Quote:
Complete bullshit. Ryan Zimmerman was second in all of baseball in UZR this year with 18.1 and lead all third basemen.
I did make a mistake here. Third basemen are not as effected as SS and 2nd basemen's are by a poor first basemen. It's not the entire infield.
Quote:
Because god dammit, the eye test is better than scientific data.
Yup. It's not scientific data. It's a theory.
Put it this way, do excellent players become bad over the course of one off season? Sure all the time. It's part of sports.
But do 35 year old players suddenly become much better defensively over night? I don't think so. There has to be other underlying factors that UZR and all the other stats just can not show.
Stats are a useful tool, but to look only at stats belies a misunderstanding of the game. Presence of mind is a factor. Look at a play like Jeter cutting off a ball going to home and tagging out a runner who turned too far in the ALDS, that's something that doesn't show up in a stat but is valuable.
But you're like a seventeen year old kid, so you think you know everything and you're going to ignore all this.
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Slaughter
Main Eventer
Reged: 02/09/01
Posts: 7348
Loc: Illinois
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I still think there were other shortstops that deserved it more, but either way, the games I had seen this past season didn't show him doing a great job with the glove, and I was mainly going off of that. Didn't realize that he actually did a very good job this year. I was almost certain he had been much lower, but I guess not.
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The tape over your mouth says more than words ever could.
I Locust! Fuck to you!
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Goob
Sinner AND Saint.
Reged: 09/23/01
Posts: 5100
Loc: Philippi, WV
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I will say though that the idea that a lot of times the best offensive players get a defensive award is idiotic. The real robbery was of Franklin Gutierrez of Seattle not getting picked over Adam Jones.
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Live passionate, be obsessed, dive deep
Purity of heart is to will one thing.-Kierkegaard
Now with God's help, I shall become myself.- Kierkegaard
Joy is the serious business of heaven.-C.S. Lewis
I think Goob is the person here most people could learn something from, about life, and happiness, and just about everything important.
-Penguin
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The JZA
Do something about this CT will ya? I've had it for the longest and it doesn't make sense.
Reged: 10/13/06
Posts: 19741
Loc: The Ghettos of Gotham
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Chris Coghlan and Andrew Bailey get the RoTY awards.
Peezy came in second in both leagues.
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POTM - June 09, August 09 
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The Evil Christmas Bomber
I Smash Because I Love
Reged: 12/09/03
Posts: 24241
Loc: A Living Hell
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That's bullshit. I happen to know Peezy's OBP was higher than both of theirs, and his Slugging%(with the chubbos) is above .900.
Fucking baseball writer assholes.
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SURF'S UP, CHRISTMAS PONIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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The JZA
Do something about this CT will ya? I've had it for the longest and it doesn't make sense.
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Quote:
and his Slugging%(with the chubbos) is above .900.
It's all the triples he hits.
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POTM - June 09, August 09
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su_rko
slump
Reged: 03/26/08
Posts: 7349
Loc: Syracuse, NY
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Just announced:
Zack Greinke wins the AL Cy Young Award.
Felix Hernandez finished 2nd.
Justin Verlander finished 3rd.
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The JZA
Do something about this CT will ya? I've had it for the longest and it doesn't make sense.
Reged: 10/13/06
Posts: 19741
Loc: The Ghettos of Gotham
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Good for him, he had an outstanding year.
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POTM - June 09, August 09
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su_rko
slump
Reged: 03/26/08
Posts: 7349
Loc: Syracuse, NY
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The vote totals:
Greinke - 134 (25 first place votes)
Hernandez - 80 (2 first place votes)
Verlander - 14 (1 first place vote)
Sabathia - 13
Much deserved. The guy was unhittable most of the year.
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Volourn
It is an embarrasing sports nonsensical junk.
Reged: 04/22/02
Posts: 1673
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Good choice for the Cy. Only 16 wins but he managed that with KC of all teams. Impressive.
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Yes, I'm a Hogan mark and proud of it.
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Travis V Penguington
Pistols for Penguins
Reged: 12/27/02
Posts: 18764
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NL Cy Young Final votes (Name, Team, 1st Place Votes, Final Total)
Tim Lincecum, Giants 11 100
Chris Carpenter, Cardinals 9 94
Adam Wainwright, Cardinals 12 90
I have nothing against Lincecum, and I really do think he was the third best pitcher in the NL, and the fourth best in baseball as a whole this year.
Apparently all that matters is strikeouts to the NL Cy Young voters. Having a shitty second half, and an even shittier September means nothing.
I know that Carp and Wainwright ended up canceling each other out, and I know that Carp got hurt by the fact he was hurt (heh) at the beginning of the season. I also know Wainwright not getting his 20th win probably hurt him in the long run (because 19 just isn't enough).
But I really can't see how you can justify putting Licnecum over those two. I sure as shit can't see how you can justify putting Javier Vazquez over both of them (as one writer did).
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Slaughter
Main Eventer
Reged: 02/09/01
Posts: 7348
Loc: Illinois
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I'm not saying that he should've won the Cy Young award, but it was well documented that Lincecum got off to a horrible start. If he had a shitty second half and an even shittier September, how did his numbers turn out to be as good as they were? For the record, I wanted to see Wainwright win it.
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The tape over your mouth says more than words ever could.
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