Wacky Wrestlemania Theory 03.26.09: The Great Wrestlemania 13, Embarrassing Foley, and Trilogy Theory
Posted by Jake Chambers on 03.26.2009
Was Wrestlemania 13 the best Mania ever? Was everyone fooled by the fire into thinking Foley/Edge was a classic? Is there a thematic trilogy embedded into Wrestlemania chronology? These wacky theories are defended inside!
#1 – Wrestlemania 13, One of the Greats!
In 1997, everyday as a WWF fan was a tentative one. ‘We' knew that the WWF was the best and loyally stuck by as the WCW waged a war against the federation on every level. While cocky (and creepy) WCW dork fans were dismissing Wrestlemania that year as meaningless, the WWF put on a show for the true hardcore fans that was satisfying, exhilarating and featured some of the best wrestlers of all time, in their prime.
With the exception of the main event, which is really not that bad of a match just not the caliber of a Wrestlemania main event (certainly, in hindsight, not much worse than Triple H vs. Batista), WM 13 is an exceptionally strong card. At 3 hours, with only 7 matches, this show had a compact and stacked super-card, not like the bloated four hours we get today, with at least one hour of nonsense skits and Hall of Fame introductions, and another hour of grandstanding entrances ‘spectacles' and feud recap videos. WM 13 was almost all kick-ass action.
The opening four-way tag team elimination match was a great pace setter, Goldust and HHH brought the house show match that they'd been tearing it up with across the country onto the big stage (featuring the incredible scene of Chyna shaking the shit out of Marlena), Ahmed Johnson climaxed his underappreciated feud with the devious Nation of Domination in a Street Fight that combined Road Warrior entertainment with some credible hardcore wrestling. The strongest argument for the inclusion of WM 13 into the list of best WM's ever is the Bret Hart and Steve Austin Submission Match, a match that many consider to be the best Wrestlemania match of all time, and one of the greatest singles matches ever as well. The fact that this match exists on this card should only strengthen its legacy, yet instead somehow it has been segregated from a ‘supposedly' disastrous event.
That being said there are two matches that I think are especially disliked based on pure prejudice.
First of all you have a highly underrated performance by the mega-face Rocky Miavia against a capable Sultan, who is just Rikishi in a mask coming off of his Headshrinkers/Fatu the Gangsta phase when he was a solid worker. This match often gets ignored by the face value of the names alone, "oh, the Sultan, what a lame gimmick," or "Rocky Miavia, that was The Rock when he was shit," but I'm afraid that if you watch this match without any of those preconceived notions, you would see that it is an enjoyable and well contested match.
Most importantly, there is one overlooked masterpiece on this card, the incredibly rare ‘heel vs. heel' Tag Team Title Match featuring the greatest WWF tag team of all time (in my opinion) Owen Hart and The British Bulldog vs. Vader (coming off his ‘revitalization' at In Your House – Final Four) and Mankind in the prime of his genre-splitting, psycho-gimmick. Most just look at the results of the show and dismiss this match because it is a double count-out, but to me that's like saying that a match that concludes in a draw is not worth acknowledging. In my opinion, this match was a good long stalemate, full of intensity, and crisp wrestling from some of the all time masters. Mankind alone, is fucking awesome in this match, conflicted and tough, yet also wacky and a perfect foil to the crafty Owen Hart. Mankind's great performance on this wonderful card leads me directly into my next theory…
#2 – The Mick Foley Wrestlemania 22 Embarrassment
Wrestlemania 22 was a weak card. I find it terrible that so many people bought into the WWE hype machine that declared Mick Foley needed his one big Wrestlemania moment at this show, as a way to cover up the weak looking event. The WWE needed to sell us on something special happening that night, they tried with Michaels and McMahon, Cena and Hunter, both to lackluster buzz, so they needed something else and a garbage match embarrassment between Foley and Edge was thus pushed on us.
Foley already had his ‘Mania Moments, or should I say the Foley gimmicks that we actually liked, Mankind and Cactus Jack, already had their ‘Mania moments. At WM 22, why should I have cared about a retired ‘actor' who spent a good part of his post-in-ring career exposing the business, now coming out as the ‘real' persona of Mick Foley to ‘finally' get some glory and thereby completely disrespecting his past accomplishments. I mean, Hogan, for all his many returns to the ring, at least does it with the gimmicks the audience likes, he doesn't come out as Terry Bollea (except for that one weird time in WCW). Pro-wrestling is as much about symbols as anything, and the symbol of an out-of-shape Foley telling us all his past Wrestlemania performances, during the glory days of the Attitude Era nonetheless, were not ‘special' enough for him was a direct insult to the intelligence of the audience who lived through those events and an embarrassing cash grab.
The aforementioned WM 13 profiled Mankind in his prime, historically teaming with the man who tore his ear off in that infamous house show match in Germany (an event even referenced in part of the struggle for the team to cohere in the lead up to Wrestlemania) against two of the best performers in WWF history. As well, there was the amazing WM 14 Tag Team Title Dumpster match against the New Age Outlaws, that saw Cactus Jack, the real, badass Cactus Jack (not some lumpy, jolly old guy in a Cactus Jack shirt and a fuzzy flannel) team with his legendarily insane mentor Terry "Chainsaw Charlie" Funk in an all-out awesome brawl, and one that didn't need a bunch of fake fire to cover up the deficiencies of the wrestlers. That's right, I said "FAKE" fire!
When I read all the online reviews of the Edge/Foley WM 22 Hardcore match, it sure seems like a lot of people bought that the fire Edge went face-first into was real, and not a gimmick. We all know that's impossible, right? This is pro-wrestling, right? A guy with long flowing blonde hair cannot go face first into a huge wall of fire and come out without a signed eyebrow, burnt hair end, or even redness of the face… let alone his portly companion who went into the flames flannel first, a shirt that was somehow completely fine after it was also enveloped in the fire. Well, I guess all those rapidly bursting fire extinguishers prove that the fire was real though… NOT! That was just another wrestling gimmick to draw you into the illusion, and another intelligence insulter at that. At least Paul Bearer sold his ‘flash paper' fireball to the face with weeks of facial bandaging, but to see Foley and Edge after their match, you wouldn't even think they'd gotten sunburn. I won't get into the science of it all, but if you believe that Edge and Foley went into real fire at the end of this match, then you're an idiot!
What is worse than anything, though, is that we had to suffer through the embarrassment of Mick Foley shilling for another return to wrestling by destroying all of our past great Wrestlemania memories. Unlike Stone Cold Steve Austin who simply refuses to return to the Wrestlemania stage because he's afraid it will tarnish our memories of his badass career, Foley has no qualms about throwing on some rag tag clothes and running through the motions one more time. I'm all for anyone trying to make more money, especially those precious millions, but does it have to be at the sake of our memories of Foley in his prime as a performer? Those fantastic matches at WMs 13 and 14 had incredible Foley moments, along with WM 15 where Mankind went on-one-on with the Big Show with a shocking finish that led to him eventually coming out to ‘save' the main event in his Mankind referee gimmick, as well as his big, "one time only" coming out of retirement to compete in the main event of WM 2000. If I accept that the WM 22 Hardcore Match was Foley's big ‘Mania moment, then what does that mean for my memory of all those great years? The Foley/Edge hardcore match is a typical example of the WWE hype machine's ability to manipulate the fans, particularly the online community, to believe their bullshit. The match was WCW level hardcore/garbage wrestling that somehow has gained notoriety as being a classic. Without the FAKE fire spot, the match is passionless, weak and short, hardly the stuff of legend, and hardly the ‘one great Wrestlemania moment' that Foley didn't even need in the first place.
#3 – Wrestlemania Three-Theory
There are some wacky theories in the entertainment world, one being the supposed "curse" of the sequel, or more specifically the Star Trek movie theory that claims only the even numbered sequels are good movies. Well, how about Wrestlemania? Is there a metaphysical flow in the WWE Universe? Do Wrestlemanias go through a chorological arcing wave? I believe that every three Wrestlemanias make a thematic bundle. See if you agree:
1 – Original Hulkamania Trilogy = Wrestlemania – Wrestlemania III
These events were created to showcase Hulk Hogan as the ultimate star of the WWF's Rock ‘N Wrestling Era. As each show grew increasingly bigger and more popular, so to did the size of the cards and the importance of the main even matches, coming to an apex at the Hogan/Andre phenomenon. If you watch these shows today, there is a definite style difference in the in-ring action compared to all other years; these shows while flashy in some ways (specifically in the Hogan matches) still relied on the tougher edge and methodical wrestling of the WWF from the 1970s.
2 – The Search for the Next Mega-Star = Wrestlemania IV – VI
The WWF, ever quick to move onto to the next big star, showed shocking foresight following the success of their biggest event ever at WM III by trying to push a new star into the mainstream. Randy ‘Macho Man' Savage became Hogan's contemporary and arch-enemy, while the Ultimate Warrior was ultimately groomed to be the man who would ascend to the WWF throne. These shows, while bloated with more matches and wrestlers than the first triptych, also showcased the lighter and less aggressive wrestling styles being used by the WWF, as they became much more comedy centered and gimmick heavy, making for much less satisfying shows creatively.
3 – End of the Hogan Era = Wrestlemania VII – IX
While the Ultimate Warrior and Randy Savage did not pan out into the Hollywood household names that the WWF had desired, it was now time to squeeze as much revenue they could out of the slowing and aging Hogan. You could even say that the moment of climax in the entire arc of the first nine Wrestlemania's happens exactly at the end of the Warrior/Savage ‘Retirement' Match, as the WM match quality and popularity marks a slow descent all the way down to Hogan's ‘surprise' Title match at the end of WM IX, a moment of obvious and sad desperation as the WWF attempted to appease Hogan and hold onto his remaining dorky and dim-witted mainstream fans.
4 – The Rise of the Small = Wrestlemania X – XII
These three events showcased the talents of Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels in a historic break from the WWF's push for super-hero sized stars with a refreshing focus on quicker, more athletic and psychological wrestlers. While there was a slight misstep in the push of Diesel as a kid friendly WWF Champion, the increasingly smart, adult fans truly wanted to see HBK and Bret Hart in their prime, and this cumulated in a stunningly booked, pure wrestling classic, 60-minute Ironman Match at WM XII.
5 – Stone Cold, Stone Cold, Stone Cold = Wrestlemania 13 – XV
Stone Cold Steve Austin was the WWF's next Hulk Hogan, whether they wanted it or not. Although they probably had no idea how huge he was going to get when he became a working class hero by refusing to tap out to (pro-wrestling elitist) Bret Hart's Sharpshooter. Austin became one of the most successful forces in WWF history by standing up to Mike Tyson and making WM XIV a buzz worthy, WCW nightmare. Unlike Hogan, Austin was able to successfully pass the torch at a Wrestlemania in his outing against The Rock at WM XV. The wrestling here was not as pure as the previous trilogy, and there was a definite move to weapons-based matches and a WWF landscape that had few rules when it came to main events, making for more drama compared to the previous era of athleticism.
6 – The Rock = Wrestlemania 2000 – Wrestlemania X-8
There can be no doubt that The Rock was the main star for this next trilogy of Wrestlemanias. He main-evented the first two, and his match against Hogan at X-8 was an historic highlight. Much like the trilogy following the first three Hogan spotlighting Wrestlemanias, these shows were bloated with as many matches and superstars that the WWF could fit onto the card, supposedly knowing that they'd built up some good faith with the America consumers and looking for a way to spread their wealth among the wrestlers. While the hardcore wrestling of the previous trilogy had become passé, many of the holdovers from that generation were not great pure wrestling performers, making for two weak cards surrounding the gloriously booked WM X-7.
7 – The Next Big Thing = Wrestlemania XIX – 21
You could see that the WWE really expected Brock Lesnar to be the star of their next trilogy following the main event of WM XIX, and probably even days before WM XX, until Brock announced his planned retirement. Thus attempts were made to highlight other stars, the Bret and Shawn-esque duo of Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero or the Hogan/Rock/Austin hybrids of Batista and John Cena at WM 21. While often notable for the brawls, stunts and fuck-ups, such as the McMahon match against Hogan, the first Money in the Bank Ladder Match, and the Lesnar/Goldberg fiasco, this trilogy probably featured the best in-ring action of all the WMs, with Kurt Angle against Brock, Eddie and HBK, Chris Jericho against HBK and Christian, and the classic triple threat main event of WM XX.
8 – Cena-centric = Wrestlemania 22 – 24
Luckily, the WWE found a crossover star in John Cena, a young, hip, wrestling machine who polarized fans, mostly due to the WWE's marketing of Cena to a younger audience and enraging the dwindling yet vocal, older fans' sensibilities. These events featured a return to big-time spectacle, as the WWE tried to play bigger stadiums again, and filled the cards with multiple, main event level, matches, yet surprisingly more non-wrestling padding between the bouts. The wrestling on these shows has been good, but not reflective of the overall weak quality in the WWE throughout the rest of the year, setting up Wrestlemania as a kind of play-off event where the best wrestling of the year now takes place. While okay for this WM Trilogy, this trend definitely can't be considered good for the WWE overall.
With all that being said, that means this year is the start of a new trilogy! What could the next three years have in store for us? Here's my guess:
After CM Punk used his guaranteed title shot that he'd won in the opening of the show in the Money in the Bank Ladder Match to dethrone Triple H following his harrowing match with Randy Orton, Punk went on to become the biggest heel in years, taking his ‘Straight Edge' gimmick all the way against John Cena at WM 26 and finally being the man to end the streak and retire the Undertaker at WM XX-7.
please do this site a favor and stop writing columns.
Posted By: guest (Guest) on March 25, 2009 at 10:51 PM
I won't be saying anything different than what most people on here will say. Being different and edgy might be what gets you views and attention, but there is no respect for the business by what you have been writing. I see no love and no passion for what these brave men do on a nightly basis. Perhaps some time away will refresh your perspective, see why Foley gave Edge the rub he sorely needed, see why that match was worth the hype in every possible sense. I won't curse, tell you to die, yell EPIC FAIL.....I'm just disappointed. I thought you would be better than that Mr. Chambers. I'm sorry you proved me wrong.
Posted By: Brian C. (Guest) on March 25, 2009 at 11:12 PM
ugh...what? can someone fire this pancake.
Posted By: K.O.W. (Guest) on March 25, 2009 at 11:17 PM
My opinion on this may be a bit biased but Wrestlemania 22 was far from sucking in any capacity from my point of view, which was 3 rows off the floor after a 13 hour road trip from Camada, two fisting jumbo beers.
Posted By: Tito (Guest) on March 25, 2009 at 11:35 PM
I should get the marshmallows ready for the firestorm you're going to cause.
Posted By: Paleb05 (Guest) on March 25, 2009 at 11:53 PM
I thought you'd at least acknowledge the feedback from last week...EPIC WTF
Posted By: chester cheetah (Guest) on March 25, 2009 at 11:59 PM
You know, Chambers, I have to give you credit. Last week, you came out with your Owen Hart themed column, which was perhaps the most desperate attempt for hits that I have ever seen. You wrote perhaps the worst piece of literature I have ever had the displeasure of reading, all for the sake of getting people to click on the link to your crappy column. But you know what? I gave you the benefit of the doubt. But this week, you made me look foolish, Chambers. To suggest that Rocky Maivia vs. Sultan is a great match...wow. Everybody has a right to their opinion, but you need to be informed when your opinion is idiotic. But the Mick Foley piece...wow. God forbid that WWE would want to use fake fire on an ENTERTAINMENT presentation. This isn't CZW. God forbid that Mick Foley, in an attempt to get Edge over as a megastar, allow himself to get the shit kicked out of him for fifteen minutes. Let me ask you something, Chambers. Would you be willing to go out and go through a flaming table? Or have a barbed wire bat smashed against your back? Just because you have a jaded view of Mick Foley doesn't mean that WWE or Mick Foley or the fans are wrong when they want to see Mick Foley compete in a match at WrestleMania. Foley has come out and said that he felt he never had a great match at WrestleMania. He was disappointed with his performances at WrestleMania XIV, XV, and 2000. While the 13 tag match was good, it is in no shape or form memorable. It is just another great match. Foley, god forbid, wanted to be remembered for something at WrestleMania. And it is obvious that he is, because you just went on a rant about how the fire he was slammed through wasn't fake. Chambers, I am calling for your removal as a columnist on this site. Last week, a columnist on your own damn site said he was embarassed to know that you were on the same site as he. You contribute nothing but entertaining flamming to this site. Csonka, Harrison, Bernstein, Pragg, and JD all contribute something relevant, and they don't try to piss off the readers. You do so because you have to hide the fact that you are a crappy writer. I will continue to call for your resignation every week until your name no longer appears in the credits of any column, review, or memory on 411 Mania. You are a detriment to other writers, because when casual people come on and see this crap, it makes 411 look like a joke. Ashish, Csonka, SOMEBODY FIRE THIS GUY!!!
SOMEBODY FIRE THIS GUY!!!
Posted By: Kevin (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 12:24 AM
i thought this weeks column was going to be about how Chris, Nancy, and Daniel Benoit arent really dead, and they are living in a log cabin in west virginia next to owen and martha hart.
Posted By: setobakura (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 12:35 AM
This guy is a wrestling fan?!?! He doen't know a wristlock from a wristwatch!!!! I know that the economy is bad and finding good writers is hard these days, but fire this bastard!!!
Posted By: Adam (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 12:44 AM
(for this to work you have to see the visual of me with my hand on my head in exhaustion from reading this pile of shit) Let... let me get this straight? You think WM 13 was one of the best of all time and refer to the Edge/Foley match as "trash" and "forced on us" ?
You have actually watched wrestling before right? Did they just pull one of the writers from Tiger Beat to do this column? I'm pretty sure I'm dumber now for having choked this down. 411 is fast becoming the most irellevant site I visit, and here you are to put another nail in the coffin.
Posted By: Dave (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 12:51 AM
When I was reading this, I seriously had to look up at the author and make sure it didn't say "Bill O'Reily". You're making points that have no merit, you act like everything is a personal affront to you, and you spout of your opinions as if they are irrefutable.
Fuck, Jake Chambers might as well be a pseudonym for Bill O'Reily.
Posted By: Cactus (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 01:42 AM
Bravo, you are the height of pathetic
Posted By: Guest#6807 (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 02:09 AM
zzz...
zzz...
Posted By: csonkamaniac (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 04:29 AM
Another great article Chambers, love your work!
Mick Foley is just pathetic and has almost no legacy since he wont fuck off and stop complaining.
The next three manias are going to be Rated RKO baby!
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 06:31 AM
fake fire? what the fuck does that mean? was the fire added digitally in post-production like undertaker's lightning bolts?
the reason edge didn't burn off any hair is because he was moist with sweat and blood
Posted By: wtf (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 07:40 AM
Seriously, what's the point of Chambers? I really liked 411 before, but with columns like this, the quality of 411Wrestling is going down the tube.
Sorry Jake, I'm sure you're an okay guy and all, but you shouldn't be writing this column anymore.
Posted By: James (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 08:04 AM
Loved it.
I don't agree with it all, but hey, I'm not writing a column either, am I? So, I thoroughly enjoyed this. I too have also noticed a themetic breakdown of the Wrestlemanias, but more along the lines of: , , , .
1-10: Rise and Fall of Hogan (with Bret rising from the ashes)
11-17: The New Generation's Attitude
18-21: The Transition from Attitude to Now
22-present: The Cena/Batista/Orton Era
AS for the, um, readers: it's cool to hate Jake Chambers. Good job, my friend, you've made an impact; and whatever the columns are about, it's more interesting that reading about puro and TNA, that's for sure.
For the record, I love the randomly emboldened words!
I'm Christopher Warrior, and I am a mark for Jake Chambers! :D
Posted By: Christopher Warrior (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 08:06 AM
FTR: Wrestlemania 22 was Solid, brah.
But hey, I sea what you have done here. ;)
Posted By: Christopher Warrior (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 08:09 AM
Jake Chambers = Gawd.
Posted By: Alan Kay (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 08:09 AM
After last weeks disrespectful column... THIS is how you follow up??!!??!!
Seriously Csonka, PLEASE do your best Vince McMahon Impression and FIRE this guys ass!
Posted By: Guest#9219 (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 09:03 AM
Chambers, you CLEARLY forgot about WrestleMania X-8 when Austin "Returned to the Wrestlemania stage" and tarnished our memories of his badass career by facing Scott "Never Sober for more then 3 minutes" Hall.
Oh... add another one for firing this piece of trash!
Posted By: A History Lesson (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 09:06 AM
Fake Fire = lighter fluid fueled fire that quickly burns away, mostly used as a special effect in low budget movies and etc.
I comprehend what you're attempting Mr. Chambers, but you're deadly close to making me stop reading your articles with topics such as that. Please explain what "fake" _______ is to you next time so others can understand. Only reason I know is I'm a pyromaniac.
Posted By: Mr. Epiphany~ (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 10:28 AM
attention dipsh!ts giving jake hell..
1) the article is called "Wacky Wrestlemania Theory"
2) you're arguing about PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING
if you dont like what you read, submit your article to 411 and get your own column. Jake has something you guys dont: talent.
the reason he's not "fired" (he's getting paid?) is because he DOES get the views and you nimrods talking. whether it be good or bad. That there is the heart of wrestling. Heels THRIVE on negative responses.
Jake Chambers, you're the early Rock of 411!
everyone gave him hell, but now he's a GOD.
i salute you good sir. dont change a thing!
Posted By: starfox (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 10:32 AM
People sure do get pissed at a column with the word "Wacky" in the title.
Posted By: Acid (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 10:33 AM
I don't get this whole "Fire him! Fire him!" mentality.
He just needs a gimmick for his column that doesn't make him sound like a jackass week after week.
Coming up with a wacky theory doesn't work anyway, bacause if it's ridiculous enough to be considered wacky, then it can't really be a theory can it?
Posted By: Thor (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 10:40 AM
"Chambers, you CLEARLY forgot about WrestleMania X-8 when Austin "Returned to the Wrestlemania stage" and tarnished our memories of his badass career by facing Scott "Never Sober for more then 3 minutes" Hall.
Oh... add another one for firing this piece of trash!
Posted By: A History Lesson (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 09:06 AM"
That's because austin didn't retire until after Wrestlemania XIX.
Posted By: Jamal (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 10:49 AM
I admit, I completely ignored last week's column, Chambers, but this week's brought the proverbial goods, with the exception of the desperate Foley/Edge slandering. Props on the trilogy theory, but back to Foley for a moment...
Foley, embarrass himself? This wasn't Mankind vs. Carlito at Cyber Sunday, man. The only embarrassing thing about Edge/Foley was the immediate and insistent attempt to brand it "the greatest hardcore match of all time". I also think that branding is the only reason anyone has to talk such shit about the match itself. But this was just Mick Foley doing what he does - or did - best: putting over a deserving young guy. Edge got over for his win over Foley, the same way Orton did two years prior, even if to a marginally lesser degree. That was Foley's goal, and he succeeded. He even got his "moment" in the flaming table spot. Yes, I'm qualifying it as a "Mania moment" because of the frequency at which they use the footage of it now. And yes, the fire spot was just that: a SPOT. But it was a great spot. In your decrying of the match, and the "fake fire", you came across as, well, somebody who uses the word "n00b" a lot. Take what you will from that.
Also, the Maivia/Sultan match DID suck. I watched it last week, and it sucked, alright? The worst thing about it, I think everyone will agree, is that the goddamn SULTAN got a title match at WRESTLEMANIA. Even THEN he wasn't over, so don't try to contextualize it. Jerry Lawler would've made a better damned challenger for the IC Title at that point... I think everyone would agree that that's more than enough talking about Rocky Maivia vs. the Sultan.
Posted By: KanyonKreist (Registered) on March 26, 2009 at 10:55 AM
"the reason edge didn't burn off any hair is because he was moist with sweat and blood"
Sex during a period is one thing, but I always thought Edge was male. Huh. You learn something new every day.
Posted By: Broseph Stalin (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 11:01 AM
And on one more note, I think it is absolutely hilarious how well these WWTs play all of you. Absolutely exposed are 95% of you readers who choose to leave comments.
Jake Chambers does it with an insane grace and beauty, bringing all of you down to depraved levels.
Most wrestling fans = sociopaths.
Posted By: Broseph Stalin (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 11:05 AM
I Do not hate you .
But I Agree , you need to be fired .
FOLEY himself has said that all his past WM matches suck , and yet you say his match at WM 13 was awesome ?????
Illogical.
Immature.
Idiotic.
WM 22 was good , and Edge / Foley was a classic , YOU did not like it , but most people did , and many people have said this is the match of the night at WM 22 .
WM 13 Sucked , mostly .
Your attempts to write a coherent , thoughtful article are embarrassing .
You won't be fired , I Know , but my respect for this site has gone down a bit .
LOP Is getting better by the day , PW Torch has thoughtful articles too , 411 Used to be the best , now I'm not sure anymore .
This column , in a nutshell = CHEAP HEAT .
Posted By: HBK Fan (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 11:06 AM
Every week I Hope Jake will write something that makes sense .
Every week he disappoints me .
Posted By: Chris (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 11:15 AM
Damn not you again.......
Posted By: EDGE (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 11:16 AM
People like you are the reason I'm on medication.
Posted By: Seriously ? (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 11:17 AM
Right now I'm sitting here looking at you trying to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my ass.
Posted By: montana (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 11:18 AM
Of all the writers on this entire site you are the absolute worst...what is your purpose? They could probably get some high school kid to write something better.
You write as if you have some sort of astute knowledge on these topics...when in actuality you have the probably less than most of the readership has on this site.
Your last column was a disgrace to put it mildly, and then we have someone saying to blame them and not you for the column. And this week while not as obnoxious or disgraceful you have added nothing of relevance, just proven that you actually have little to no writing ability, and your only noteworthy ability appears to be being obnoxious and feigning anger and intelligence on the topics you write about.
Bravo
Posted By: TJ (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 11:22 AM
First 2 sections...whatever. Thought the last section was insightful. I would love for the next 3 WMs to be the Punk Movement! Punk as a heel is the shit!
Posted By: Seze (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 11:25 AM
Jake Chambers is the best writer on this site by a distance, and he makes fucking idiots out of all of you every week.
Awesome as usual Jake.
Posted By: Owen isn't dead. (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 11:32 AM
"Unlike Stone Cold Steve Austin who simply refuses to return to the Wrestlemania stage because he's afraid it will tarnish our memories of his badass career, Foley has no qualms about throwing on some rag tag clothes and running through the motions one more time."
Dude, the difference between Foley and Austin is that Foley is still able to go in the ring and Austin's neck is EXTREMELY fragile right now, as in one body slam may confine him to a wheelchair for life. If you were in that situation, wouldn't you be at least a little bit hesitant to step into the ring?
I'm sure Austin wouldn't mind working another WM match, but his health needs to come first at this point.
Posted By: y2edge (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 11:33 AM
I actually agree that Wrestlemania 22, had no real Wrestlemania feel to it, as HHH/Cena was predictable and boring, Money in the Bank 2 was not nearly as good as the previous. Shawn michaels/McMahon match and feud was a complete waste of space, and also predictable. The Triple Threat Mysterio/Orton/Angle told no story and seemed rushed! And no one expected Mark henry to beat Undertaker not for a second. Chris Benoit was stuck facing JBL who was out of shape and losing his skill to have a decent match. There really was one special moment that deserves remembering, there wasnt an epic encounter that should be remembered like Savage/Steamboat,Owen/Bret/Michaels/Bret, Hogan/Savage, Austin/Rock. etc.
I find it strange though that chambers would consider Wrestlemania 2000 a great foley memory when he shit all over himself on his performance and brought down the match because of it. I do agree, Vader/Mankind V Owen/Bulldog was incredible outside of the finish and wish the feud would have continued, and they never took advantage of having Vader V Mankind feud, big mistake by WWE!
Posted By: EliminateChambers (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 12:06 PM
So WrestleMania 22 sucked but WrestleMania 13 was one the greatest!?!?!?!?!?
SAVE_US Larry. These theories aren't even wacky, they're just plain stupid and attention seeking.
Posted By: Bubba (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 12:07 PM
WM9 is the best wrestlemania. ever. Jake please give us a column detailing the hows and whys of WM9 being the best ever.
Posted By: Pringle (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Your columns are getting beyond sad. It's no longer "wacky theories." It's simply, "what can I talk about that goes against everything the IWC loves and would really piss them off?" I don't care that you enjoyed WM 13 and hated WM 22, but insisting the fire was fake? Seriously?
Can't wait for your next column: Wacky Wrestling Theory - Nancy and Daniel Benoit deserved what Chris did to them
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 12:29 PM
This Jake Chambers guy is like his own troll.
I also don't get this claim of "Fake Fire". If the fire existed in reality then it wasn't fake, no matter what they used to fuel it.
Posted By: JTX (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Jake, I've read your past two columns....sad work....better yet, just sad attempts to incite readers and be controversial....it's obvious you're going for cheap heat and trying to make some kind of name for yourself....I don't know you personally, so I won't attack you personally....but I will tell you however that you do not bring anything to the table for this very well-respected site....please tighten up Pimpin
Posted By: R.D.W. (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 12:42 PM
I'm still looking around websites on how you can "fake" fire.
Posted By: JA Toro (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 12:56 PM
"I won't get into the science of it all.."
i ask you to PLEASE get into the science of how that fire was an illusion? I was there live, so I am especially curious as to how they created this illusion for us in attendance, complete with radiating heat.
Posted By: Groovyguy (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 01:46 PM
Actually, the Austin/Foley comparison was pretty spot-on.
Posted By: KanyonKreist (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 01:47 PM
The fire was real, as far as the flames existed, but the table itself wasn't alight. It was just the lighter fuel on top of it that burned. I imagine Foley wore non-inflammable clothing as well to be safe.
Posted By: Bimmy (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 01:53 PM
"Can't wait for your next column: Wacky Wrestling Theory - Nancy and Daniel Benoit deserved what Chris did to them"
Now THAT'S a Wacky Wrestling Theory! Book it!!
Posted By: Guest#7550 (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 02:25 PM
I'm not surprised that most of these morons don't understand the term "satire"
Posted By: Big Lantern Ghost (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 02:47 PM
I actually liked the thematic breakdown of the 8 WM trilogies. I think they all made sense and defined the various eras of Wrestlemania well. Good luck with the future Punk one though. Can't see it happening.
I agree with everyone else thats ripped you about the fake fire thing. I personally think you're right, it probably was fake, but it's not good enough to SAY it was fake and then say "well, I don't want to get into the science of it" and then leave it at that.
You're idea of backing it up was telling us all that "if you believe that Edge and Foley went into real fire at the end of this match, then you're an idiot!".
Until you've proven your point with factual information, you shouldn't be jumping on anyone else for believing something that you can't disprove.
Instead you came off like your average Politician. Now YOU look like the idiot.
Posted By: SU_RKO (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 02:51 PM
...actually probably your best work...
Posted By: Mark (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 02:54 PM
"I'm not surprised that most of these morons don't understand the term "satire"
Satire - trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly
This my friend is NOT satire...its bad writing...BIG DIFFERENCE!!
Posted By: dropda411 (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 02:56 PM
Fake fire? How do you do that?
Posted By: Trump (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 03:03 PM
"I won't get into the science of it all.." - Jake Chambers on the fake fire.
I literally lol'd when I read that.
What I find funny is that the internet wrestling nerds here are probably the same ones who have the South Park dolls and can quote every random tasteless joke Family Guy has ever done, yet here's this one column on 411mania that is borderline insane to the point of hilarity and it gets all of your tampons lit, vaginas sanded and balls vicegripped. It doesn't make any sense.
Then again, let me illustrate it better, as seen by two commentators in the last column of 'The Wrestling Bard'..
"Now matter how hard my life gets, I can watch wrestling and it will put a smile on my face."
- Aaron Hubbard (or.. the Average WWT reader)
"Jesus Christ that is fucking pathetic. Seriously man, you need to get out more, find a girlfriend or something, because you clearly have social inadequacies when wrestling becomes your crutch for all your social and emotional problems."
- Guest#7917 (or... Jake Chambers and the rest of us)
Don't leave us, Jake.
Posted By: Christopher Warrior (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 03:04 PM
I appreciate the sporadic satirical flair of WWT, but I'm pretty sure that 90% of the trolls who say "you idiots just don't get satire" genuinely can't tell where the satire begins and ends. So really, they're only about 15% smarter than the "chambres u suk!!1!" people.
Posted By: KanyonKreist (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 03:20 PM
you know, i just didn't like this column... just my personal preference, that's all. but goddammit it is worthwhile coming back twelve hours later to see all of these posters trying(operative word) to flame on chambers for "what do you mean fake fire?" this and "please mr. csonka, fire him!" that.
sometimes i think that this site should have one of those carnival signs that read "you must be this tall to ride", because it seems like alot of what these writers put forth(whether it be an honest commentary or a fucking joke) just seems to go way over most 411-frequenters' heads.
chambers, i really enjoyed your last column. like i said before i didn't care for this one, but i'm all in favor of anything you do that pulls in this amount of heat.
it's one of the most entertaining things i've witnessed on here.
Posted By: csonkamaniac (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 03:33 PM
I liked that foley vs edge match, even if edge had to carry it a bit, it was a solid 4 star match.
Posted By: kevin (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 03:39 PM
Woah this column is so badly written that it is officially the last time i'm ever going to read it. Talk about an insult to the reader's intelligence.
Also, what is with all the random words highlighted in bold for no apparent reason?
And the theories are all so stupid too... fake fire? right.
Goodbye Jake Chambers I hope to never again read any word you have written. Moron.
Posted By: Rafalution (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 03:41 PM
Go Jake, Go!
Posted By: 16S (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 03:49 PM
"sometimes i think that this site should have one of those carnival signs that read "you must be this tall to ride", because it seems like alot of what these writers put forth(whether it be an honest commentary or a fucking joke) just seems to go way over most 411-frequenters' heads."
Dude, as a fan of the wrestling circus, I take it that you've been to a live wrestling event, right?? Well, haha, THAT is the kind of crowd you're dealing with here. And, you know, we have no one to blame but ourselves; we want to be a part of this wrestling world, so we put ourselves into the bastion swamp of humanity that marks out for the weekly serving of McMahon Poop Pie. It's the Hyattes, the Smalls and the Chambers that actually make it worthwhile. They are fans, but in that 'I can't believe I'm doing this' kind of vein.
And have you ever really considered the weirdness of the wrestling industry, and how its billions of dollars are made on kayfabing (read: fooling) the buyer?
I enjoy wrestling it occasionally too, but I have an awareness of my surroundings, hence why I stayed at home to watch Wrestlemania 24 when I lived an hour away from Orlando. The surroundings.. the things that would be around me..
Posted By: Broseph Stalin (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 04:08 PM
The Mick Foley section of this was just terrible. I didn't mind the first or last segment, but this section was just bad. Mick Foley, in any of his forms, never really had his defining wrestlemania moment leading into this. You're one of the few people I've seen who dont like his match at wrestlemania 22. There's a little psychology at the beginning with the barbed wire, and it's more than just a garbage match. The spot where he pulls out Mr. Socko and wraps barbed wire around it was great, and when he put the mandible claw on Lita the crowd loved it. The end of the match was obviously a little contrived, but it was an absolutely ferocious match that left both combatants bloody and destroyed. I think for the majority of people now, if you ask them to name off Mick Foley's greatest Wrestlemania match, it was putting over Edge at Wrestlemania 22. Not his one-on-one with the Big Show. Or his comeback from a 6 week retirement for the 4 way at Wrestlemania 2000. Nor his double countout in the tag team match with vader, or the dumpster match. Many will say his greatest mania match was that with Edge, and his greatest moment came when he was speared through the flaming table.
And as far as the fire goes, to a typical WWE fan, the fire is real. You suspend alot of disbelief when you watch wrestling, so for you to sit there and say 'FakE FiRe!!!', you're talking about a 'sport' with predetermined winners. Most WWE fans assume the fire is real and it doesn't change the moment for them, the general viewing population.
Posted By: Guest#0916 (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 04:25 PM
After last weeks disrespectful column... THIS is how you follow up??!!??!!
Seriously Csonka, PLEASE do your best Vince McMahon Impression and FIRE this guys ass!
Posted By: Guest#9219 (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 09:03 AM
Disrespectful to who? Owen Hart is dead so I doubt he cares and I'm 99% sure his wife or kids aren't reading this right now.
Posted By: Guest#2597 (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 04:44 PM
So WrestleMania 22 sucked but WrestleMania 13 was one the greatest!?!?!?!?!?
SAVE_US Larry. These theories aren't even wacky, they're just plain stupid and attention seeking.
Posted By: Bubba (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 12:07 PM
And you are giving him said attention moron
Posted By: Bubba sux (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 05:09 PM
The term wacky would imply comedic of some kind instead of attention grabbing, self indulgent bullshit.
Posted By: Fucking Animals>Jake Chambers (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 05:16 PM
Can't believe this reprobate still has a column on here after last week.
This site is going to fucking hell.
Posted By: Guest#2827 (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 05:19 PM
you know, i just didn't like this column... just my personal preference, that's all. but goddammit it is worthwhile coming back twelve hours later to see all of these posters trying(operative word) to flame on chambers for "what do you mean fake fire?" this and "please mr. csonka, fire him!" that.
sometimes i think that this site should have one of those carnival signs that read "you must be this tall to ride", because it seems like alot of what these writers put forth(whether it be an honest commentary or a fucking joke) just seems to go way over most 411-frequenters' heads.
chambers, i really enjoyed your last column. like i said before i didn't care for this one, but i'm all in favor of anything you do that pulls in this amount of heat.
it's one of the most entertaining things i've witnessed on here.
Posted By: csonkamaniac (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 03:33 PM
I COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE! I can understand not liking something based on personal preference, but when I see all these "Fire Chambers." comments I burst out laughing. This was a well-written column, if you didn't like it that's your perogative it's simply your opinion, nothing more.
I personally would have preferred if he tried to defend either WM IV or IX, as there's not a good match on either one, unlike 13, which at least had Hart/Austin. Or better yet, bashed WM X, X-7, or XX.
I'm convinced that alot of people who read this are either illiterate idiots or are just looking for something to bitch about.
Posted By: JLAJRC (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 05:29 PM
Comment board is full of marks.
Marks for you, Jake. Revel in the hatred of the hypocrites. You've certainly earned it.
For real, if 411 was a fed, you'd be Jeri, RKO, and Edge in one column. Cheers from the Rudo section.
btw, if anyone needs to be wished well in future endeavours at 411, it's Truss.
Posted By: icon zeke (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 08:17 PM
You are cancer to this otherwise fine site
NOBODY READS YOU WE JUST COMMENT SO YOU FUCKING STOP
Posted By: The Rev (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 08:32 PM
This was quite possibly the greatest column I've ever read, and the comments only make it better.
Posted By: Foolio (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 09:56 PM
I feel like I wasted some time by reading this article. It's not that the writing is THAT bad; it's just that the entire thing seemed like an idea that was never fully thought out before this guy started writing it. Amateur, at best.
Posted By: Kip (Guest) on March 27, 2009 at 01:56 AM
you know what?? i have officially been swayed and i now think this is a column of the year candidate. and we can all thank jake "future slammy-award winner" chambers.
Posted By: csonkamaniac (Guest) on March 27, 2009 at 02:38 AM
Column was okay in places, nothing special, but a BIG improvement from last week. This however is my own opinion and will not attempt to force it on others.
Just reading through the comments I can't help but laugh, why if people were so offended last week, did they come back this week to read and troll? If you don't like it stop reading! And for Christ's sake stop calling for the mans head. Why are the powers-that-be gonna fire someone who has over seventy comments (at the moment) and lord knows how many hits each week?
Jesus, the guys taking time out to write an unpaid column every week, he's not gonna get fired!
It's about time people grew up and took a look at themselves.
I enjoy wrestling, I enjoy reading about wrestling, dare I say that I even enjoy hearing other peoples opinions about wrestling, which is why I am here.
If you don't like this column (or, for that matter, the WWE, TNA, the quality of 411mania, the news bits featuring ex-wrestlers, or pictures of the "hot" girls I see whining about) then why the hell subject yourself to the agony of being exposing yourself to it every week?
There's a simple solution DON'T CLICK THE LINK.
Chambers is here to feed the trolls and you little piggys love it!
Posted By: Scott (Guest) on March 27, 2009 at 06:35 AM
omg wow jake you wrote a coloumn that's pissed off everyone, but i'm going to pretend that you're awesome because i have to be different and i'm an asshat
Posted By: im a retard (Guest) on March 27, 2009 at 08:02 AM
Another great article Chambers, love your work!
Mick Foley is just pathetic and has almost no legacy since he wont fuck off and stop complaining.
The next three manias are going to be Rated RKO baby!
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 06:31 AM
i love how HHH didn't get his own trilogy. that makes me smile. i reckon it will be the age of orton or edgecution, but i agree, they need 1 man to main event every 3 years. good column chambers.
Posted By: caniadduonfacebook (Guest) on March 27, 2009 at 12:16 PM
See, the thing od it is, everyone takes this column seriously when It's not supposed to be taken seriously. The problem is, while it's not a bad idea for a column, this guy sucks at it. It's like all this misplaced criticism is still deserved, simply because he's shitty at writing.
Chambers has no imagination and he's not funny. That's why he sucks. He can make all kinds of baiting columns for hits, and it obviously works. But think of how much better it could be if someone who actually had a thimblefull of talent was to do this.
*sigh* I miss Hyatte.
Posted By: Guest#2436 (Guest) on March 27, 2009 at 02:25 PM
I normally don't get annoyed with what people say, as it's opinion and we all have one, but Jesus Christ. He wanted to come out for his WINNING moment. HIS time to shine. Would you want all your best Mania moments to be "Oh, yeah I lost, but I tried REEEAAALLLYYY hard. That makes me a winner!" Fuck no. You'd want to win on the grandest stake of them all. God you just say dumber stuff every week. This will definitely be the last time I give your column a chance. God damn moron.
Posted By: All Around Wrestling Fan (Guest) on March 27, 2009 at 03:47 PM
I normally don't get annoyed with what people say, as it's opinion and we all have one, but Jesus Christ. He wanted to come out for his WINNING moment. HIS time to shine. Would you want all your best Mania moments to be "Oh, yeah I lost, but I tried REEEAAALLLYYY hard. That makes me a winner!" Fuck no. You'd want to win on the grandest stake of them all. God you just say dumber stuff every week. This will definitely be the last time I give your column a chance. God damn moron.
Posted By: All Around Wrestling Fan (Guest) on March 27, 2009 at 03:52 PM
I normally don't get annoyed with what people say, as it's opinion and we all have one, but Jesus Christ. He wanted to come out for his WINNING moment. HIS time to shine. Would you want all your best Mania moments to be "Oh, yeah I lost, but I tried REEEAAALLLYYY hard. That makes me a winner!" Fuck no. You'd want to win on the grandest stake of them all. God you just say dumber stuff every week. This will definitely be the last time I give your column a chance. God damn moron.
Posted By: All Around Wrestling Fan (Guest) on March 27, 2009 at 03:52 PM
Jake Chambers...
Are you really this mentally retarted or do you just pretend to be for this wrestling column?
Posted By: Tom (Guest) on March 27, 2009 at 04:48 PM
Say what you want, but it does make for an interesting read..
Posted By: Propagandhi (Guest) on March 27, 2009 at 06:37 PM
Dont take the bait Jake, not everyone on this site is a troll..
Posted By: Propagandhi (Guest) on March 28, 2009 at 08:21 AM
dork? you are overanalyzing wrestling like a true motherfucking dork. get a girlfreind kid. geez.
Posted By: Mike Shinobi (Guest) on March 28, 2009 at 11:42 AM
i said it before chambers is working everyone and its working
Posted By: tazz (Guest) on March 28, 2009 at 12:31 PM
Fire Russo!(chambers) clap clap clap clap clap
Posted By: ScottishDragon (Guest) on March 28, 2009 at 03:37 PM
Disrespectful to who? Owen Hart is dead so I doubt he cares and I'm 99% sure his wife or kids aren't reading this right now.
Posted By: Guest#2597 (Guest) on March 26, 2009 at 04:44 PM
and on that correct note...
IWC can fuck off and die
But before that I'd like to whip out the johnson and piss on your EPIC everythings, your many buys, your fucking "berrieds", and those lame ass is this a one shot deal.
SMART MARKS!
Posted By: son of pillman (Guest) on March 28, 2009 at 06:32 PM
I've visited a few sites online, and I must say, this site by far has the biggest amount of dipshit feedbackers I've ever seen. Week in and week out, you produce an original, against the grain columns that I think are very entertaining reads above all, yet it irks me how many fucking idiots can't handle reading something that God forbid they don't agree with and resort to classless petty insults. All of their parents are fucking idiots for not teaching their useless children and fucking manners. Grow the fuck up, you inconsequential wastes of bandwith. Keep up the great work Jake! Hopefully these little bitch kids end up having strokes and heart attacks the next time they read your stuff and get all hot and bothered so they can hoepfully die and rid the planet of more useless pieces of shit. Thank you!
Posted By: Guest (Guest) on March 29, 2009 at 03:50 AM
i luv the undertaker
Posted By: Lilian (Guest) on April 01, 2009 at 03:20 PM
LOL at this guest doodoo clown kissing up to the shitter writer. get yo tounge out his ass son.
Posted By: Mike Shinobi (Guest) on April 17, 2009 at 04:42 AM