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 411mania » Wrestling » Columns
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For The Record 4.12.09: Is Austin the BEST EVER?
Posted by Kristopher Rodriguez on 04.12.2009



Before we begin...

A Reader's Response to the "Cena Speaks for Millions" Article

I caught your article about how Cena speaks for the millions on 411mania, and I have to say while you make good points, I have to strongly disagree.

In your article, you cite how Rock has not given back to pro wrestling, when such is far from the truth. When his movie career was just starting to gain legs, he was putting over people like The Hurricane, Brock Lesnar, etc... and again after his career had fully blossomed by coming back to team with Mick Foley and put over Evolution[Orton and Batista], and gave them some legitimacy.

Cena is mad and speaking out because he feels The Rock abandoned pro wrestling, when such is far from the case again. The Rock didn't abandon pro wrestling. He simply made the best choice for him career wise, and health wise. Think about this. When The Rock is 50, he'll be earning 5-15 million a flick for roughly 1-2 months work out of his life, able to walk upright without the aid of pain killers, and enjoying time with his family and giving them his undivided attention. John Cena if he holds true to his word, when he is 50 will be a near cripple, attempting to hang on for that last payday like so many wrestlers now because they can't seem to let it go, and have multiple divorces because pro wrestling and marraige do not mix. Cena is a hypocrite and does not see the big picture. The differences between The Rock's movie career, and Cena's movie career, is that Hollywood came looking for The Rock because he has a natural charisma, amazing personality and screen presence, and has gone on to show he's not a 1 trick pony action star. Cena wouldn't have a movie career if WWE did not have it's own film production studio. Hollywood is not calling for John Cena, no hollywood directors are rushing to put John Cena in a REAL film. Not even direct to DVD films are looking for John Cena.

John Cena simply put is a company man. He has no girlfriend. He's not married. He has no significant personal life outside of professional wrestling. IE he's the perfect person for Vince McMahon to put his muscle behind, because he knows whatever he asks of John Cena, John Cena will not turn him down and can delve 100% into it. But I guarantee you if Cena's rap career had taken off[Cena is a horrible rapper and got clowned on Hot 97 when he went on there to promote his album, and Funkmaster Flex rated his skills a 4/10 which in the eyes of any legit rap/hiphop fan is a substandard artist], or some non WWE produced film came looking to cast him in it, and his career balooned from there, I gurantee you John Cena would be looking for the escape hatch and distance himself as far as possible from the WWE. Hulk Hogan of all people gave The Rock the greatest advice he could have given another person looking to make it in Hollywood. "Distance yourself from your wrestling persona, and the WWE because Hollywood is not looking for wrestlers." And he was right. From someone who tried to make it in the main stream movie business, to someone who was a fledgeling actor at the time, Hogan was 100% right.

Also, The Rock did what was right for his family. I am sorry to say, but the professional wrestling claimed the life of another marraige. So many marraiges have been claimed by professional wrestling, and so many kids alienated due to not having their fathers in their lives on a full time basis. Infidelity, drug use, absentism, physical and mental abuse, the list goes on and on why wrestlers cannot maintain relationships. And all are side effects of being commited to your craft on a top level like the WWE. Examples include The Rock[Married to Danny and then seperated then finally divorced], Steve Austin[married 3 times], Undertaker, Jerry Lawler, Hulk Hogan[seperated numerous times during his wrestling career and finally divorced], Lex Luger, Randy Savage, the list is endless. The Rock did what was best for his family. While no longer married, his daughter does not have to suffer because her father is not there due to work, or being a part time father as it were. Sorta like how The Rock grew up himself with his mother and father constantly fighting as outlined in his own book due to his father's indescrations and life on the road.

As for John Cena's wrestling career, the guy isn't as popular as one would think. If you've ever been to the WWE live when he wrestles, there's a strong 55/45 - 50/50 cheers to boo's ratio. Little kids love him, but older fans hate him. And the hate is not heel heat hate, it's "X-Pac heat" hate as in Go away, we don't want to see you. During televised events, you can clearly hear piped in cheers, in the same manner that Goldberg's cheers were piped in during the final days of WCW because the fans had grown weary of his 1 trick pony style but WCW continued to shove him down the fans throats. The same holds true for John Cena. He's getting shoved down the fans throats to the point where WWE confiscates anti-Cena signs during televised events. I can't even say he's this generation's Hulk Hogan, because Hogan was adored by fans young and old, and when he felt he was getting stale, he re-invented himself. I don't think Cena has that ability because he is a 1 trick pony. He doesn't even have his own personality, as he's heavily scripted.

I hope to get a responce from you regarding this, and I'd like for you to post the flipside of this on 411 if you can.

David A. Scruggs





David offered many valid points. And though I might not agree with everything he said, I appreciate his opinion. He formulated a well-reasoned and persuasive argument.

I originally planned on writing responses to readers' comments from last week's article. But around Tuesday or Wednesday I changed my mind. My style as a writer is to pick one topic, expand upon it, and let the readers have the final word. Sure, I am not always faithful to that formula. But for the most part, I prefer to start fresh and address one subject per column.

I decided to post David's messsage in my column because he sent it by email. It was a great counter to last week's article and I wanted to make it available to all visitors. For future reference though, I ask all "For The Record" guests who wish to respond to please post on the comment section; not by email. Posting on the comment section is the quickest and easiest way for all of your views to be expressed to the 411 community.




McMahon's Loaded Statement


During the April 4th Hall of Fame ceremony, something noteworthy happened. Vince McMahon paid Steve Austin the ultimate compliment. The chairman said:

"There's no question he is, if nothing else, the greatest WWE Superstar of all time."

There's a very short list of WWE Superstars who can be considered the best ever. Among the all-time WWE greats are the following: Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, Bret Hart, The Undertaker, and Shawn Michaels.

Okay, some people might add or subtract a few names from that list. A case can certainly be made that Macho Man, The Rock, Mick Foley, Kurt Angle, Andre The Giant, Bruno Sammartino, and Bob Backlund belong in the above group. I completely respect and understand those who hold such beliefs. But in my view, Hogan, Austin, Hart, Taker, and Michaels were the most important characters of the post-1983 wrestling era.

Why am I drawing a distinction between WWE's pre and post-1983 time frames? Because 1983 was the year Hulkamania was born. And the birth of Hulkamania helped lead to the creation of Wrestlemania. And the creation of Wrestlemania changed the whole tone and tenor of wrestling forever. After Hulk Hogan and Wrestlemania began, WWE became the sports entertainment product. WWE was no longer trying to paint pro wrestling as a legitimate sport. McMahon's approach worked and his success forced rival promoters to either evolve their products or shut their doors.

The early to mid 80s became the most consequential time in televised wrestling history. Since that time, the main characters have been Hogan, Austin, Hart, Michaels, and Undertaker… at least in my view.

We'll now examine their careers. Who's the best ever? You decide.

Hulk Hogan

The Hulkster was WWE's centerpiece for over a decade. During his reign as WWE's top guy, he revolutionized professional wrestling forever. He was the face of Hulkamania, the top draw of Wretlemanias, the reason for WWE's mainstream prominence, and the man who both set an indoor attendance record and slammed Andre on the same night.

Hulk Hogan made WWE tons and money, and in the process made his cohorts a lot of money. Wrestling on the undercard of a Hogan-headlined event had to be better than wrestling on events when Hogan was absent. Wrestlers were paid in part by how well WWE did at the gate. And if wrestlers wanted to showcase their talents before sellout crowds, there was no better wrestler to compete beneath than Hulk Hogan.

Hogan was the face of wrestling. Vince McMahon and all of today's WWE performers owe a great deal debt to the Hulkster. Hogan helped bring to fruition McMahon's image of what the professional wrestling business should be. The WWE owner and visionary could not have commissioned a better artist.

Bret Hart

The Hitman became WWE's top dog at a crucial point in the Fed's history. Hulk Hogan left WWE in 1994 and signed with WCW. Wrestlemania X was the first Wrestlemania WWE would produce without the presence of Hulk Hogan. On that night, WWE had to make a statement. A new, post-Hogan era of WWE was about to begin.

McMahon chose Bret Hart to be the focus of Wrestlemania X. The Hitman started the night by putting on a five star classic with his brother Owen. He would close the night by defeating Yokozuna for the WWE Championship. But Bret did not stand in the WWE ring alone. He would be congratulated by the company's top stars. He was even hoisted on the shoulders of Lex Luger and Razor Ramon.

On that night, in Madison Square Garden, Bret Hart became the embodiment of WWE's new generation. At Wrestlemania X, WWE symbolically told its audience that they would continue to flourish without Hulk Hogan. The rally of WWE Superstars around Bret Hart was one of the company's all-time signature moments. That remains one of the primary reasons why Wrestlemania X is so fondly remembered by old school fans.

Bret Hart brought in a style of main eventing that focused on technical wrestling and workrate. Bret Hart wasn't a media ham; he didn't pander to the audience for cheers. He won over the fans by competing as an underdog and a fighting champion.

But besides Hart's influence on WWE's main event style, the full body of Hart's career reveals that he's one of pro wrestling's all-time great technicians. Just look at Hart's encounters with Mr. Perfect and the British Bulldog at Summerslams '91 and '92. Those were pure classics and one of the reasons why Bret Hart deserves the title "Mr. Summerslam."

Hart had what many believe to be the best opening match in WWE history when he put over his brother Owen at Wrestlemania X. That same year, Bret Hart defended his WWE Championship against Bob Backlund on WWF Superstars in what I consider to be the best Superstars match ever aired.

Hart also made Diesel look good at Survivor Series '95. Those two competitors put on an all out war that ended when Hart, after playing "possum", cradled Diesel for the three-count.

On Hart's last two Wrestlemanias, Bret put over two fellow legends. At Wrestlemania 12, Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart battled in an iconic Iron Man Match. In a match that the wrestling world will never forget, Hart put over Michaels and gave HBK that historic moment when Michaels dropped to his knees and gazed reverently at his newly won world title.

The following year, Hart and Austin absolutely saved Wrestlemania 13. Hart and Austin put on what many modern fans believe to be the best match ever. In that match, Hart proved that a wrestler does not necessarily need to lose to put an opponent over. Simply put, their match left an indelible mark on the wrestling business and there's not need to elaborate further.

Let us not forget though about Survivor Series ‘97. On that infamous night, Hart was double-crossed. He would never return to a WWE ring again. Hart's absence from the WWE and his refusal to step foot in McMahon's ring has created a mystique around the Hitman. It is his mystique, his off-air feud with Shawn Michaels, and his charge that Ric Flair sabotaged his matches that make Hart one of the most controversial figures in all of wrestling lore.

Shawn Michaels

The Heartbreak Kid, along with Bret Hart, helped to usher in the use of workrate main eventing in WWE. But before Michaels joined the Hitman as a top of the card performer, he also had an impressive mid-card career. He is the only wrestler in Wrestlemania history (other than Finlay if I recall) to be in the opening bout of three straight Wrestlemanias. He also competed in the highly acclaimed Ladder Match with Razor Ramon. HBK was also the first WWE Superstar to win a Royal Rumble after drawing #1. He went on to Wrestlemania XI and pushed Diesel to the limit in what I still maintain is an underrated match. I would also be remised if I forgot to mention that Michaels had caliber matches with Marty Janetty, Mr. Perfect, Bret Hart, Owen Hart, and Jeff Jarrett before HBK even won his first world title.

But finally, the time came when Michaels and Hart crossed paths at Wrestlemania. Going into that match, Michaels and Hart had several similarities. Both were accomplished tag team wrestlers. Both were amazing Intercontinental Champions. Both were exceptional workrate performers. However, there were some glaring differences. Michaels was charismatic and flamboyant; Hart was conservative and reserved. Michaels was somewhat of a high flier; Hart was more mat-based. Hart came from a well established wrestling family; Michaels was a self-made star. Those similarities and contrasts made for a very entertaining build to Wrestlemania 12. Eventually, Michaels prevailed while Hart stepped aside for a while.

Michaels had a decent title run and had quality matches with the British Bulldog, Vader, and Mankind before dropping the title to Sid. During this time, HBK had the unenviable task of competing with the newly founded and red-hot NWO. Michaels felt the pressure, and a combination of injuries and personal life struggles resulted in Shawn surrendering his title one month after beginning his second WWE Title reign.

Michaels would eventually return to the ring as referee for the WWE Championship match at Summerslam '97 after a summer of heated exchanges with the Hart Foundation. He then began the most entertaining 6-7 month run I've ever seen. After Summerslam, Michaels would go on to feud with The Undertaker, resume his feud with the Hart Foundation, and eventually put over Stone Cold Steve Austin at Wrestlemania 14.

In the course of that time, Michaels became a founding member of Degeneration X. DX changed the tone of WWE and pushed the envelope. They were edgy, sophomoric, and comedic in an odd way. They helped to usher a new attitude into wrestling (pun intended). Their styles clashed with the Hart Foundation's and eventually the two leaders of those factions would face off at Survivor Series '97. HBK won, but that was only part of the story as we know.

All and all, HBK's involvement in the Montreal incident made him a part of wrestling history. He will always be tied to that event. It's an association that is impossible to shake.

However, Michaels was not defined by that event. It didn't change the course of his life, unlike Bret Hart. Michaels would pass the torch to Austin at Wrestlemania 14, and then retire as an in-ring competitor due to back problems. The back injury that prematurely ended Michaels' tenure as a wrestler was a life-altering event in more ways than one. In Michaels' time away from the ring, he grew up. He married a good woman, started a family, and found God. He eventually returned to the squared circle with a heightened sense of purpose. For his second time around, he wouldn't fall subject to the fast and dark life that so many wrestlers experience. He was grounded. And he became a better performer for it.

Michaels has improved with age. Since his return he has participated in superb matches with the likes of Kurt Angle, John Cena, Shelton Benjamin, Ric Flair, The Undertaker, Triple H, Chris Benoit (in the triple threat matches), Randy Orton, and Mr. Kennedy. Michaels is leaving a legacy as the best performer in WWE history. He might not be the biggest star, or possess the best win-loss record, but he is defining success in a new way to the next generation of wrestling fans.

The Undertaker

The Deadman is perhaps the best WWE gimmick ever. Taker's run with WWE has spanned almost two continuous and uninterrupted decades. Taker is WWE's all-time best loyalist. When the going got tough, Taker never got going.

The Undertaker holds the distinction of being undefeated at Wrestlemania. That is the longest running and most compelling storyline in WWE. His matches at Wreslemania have now become more important than the title bouts. Several wrestlers have walked out of Wrestlemania as champion. None of them have either defeated The Undertaker or gone 17-0. His streak is as legendary as Sammartino's seven year title reign because both accomplishments span many years.

Taker has evolved as a performer. That is part of the reason why the Undertaker's gimmick has endured for so long. He is no longer the slow moving zombie that struck fear into the hearts and minds of fans in early ‘90s. After a few years, Taker started to work a more conventional wrestling speed and eventually began producing three to four star matches. He later engaged in great bouts with Bret Hart, Mankind, and Steve Austin before absolutely wowing the crowd at Bad Blood '97. His Hell in a Cell Match with Shawn Michaels is still talked about today as a classic. It was truly a five star masterpiece that showed that The Undertaker was not only a scary character, but a gifted wrestler.

The Undertaker would go on to compete in outstanding matches with Triple H, The Rock, Mankind, Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, Batista, and Edge. He also stole the show at last week's Wrestlemania by besting Shawn Michaels in an "instant classic."

The Undertaker has been around forever. A large portion of the IWC wasn't even born when the Undertaker made his WWE debut. His longevity earns him a special place in WWE. While he might not have been a revolutionary figure who changed the course of WWE history, his constant presence has made him one of WWE's most respected and revered wrestlers. I wonder if The Undertaker was a little offended by McMahon's praise of Austin.

Stone Cold Steve Austin

The Rattlesnake is a bona fide wrestling icon. He is one of those wrestlers who, like Hogan and Hart, carried the WWE during uncertain times. Hogan, Hart, and Austin were dices that McMahon rolled. Each man represented a change of course for WWE. Austin, for his part, was the lead character of the Attitude Era.

Exactly when the Attitude Era officially began is debatable. Some date it back to the 1996 King of the Ring. Others say Survivor Series '97. Some argue that it began when Austin pushed Mike Tyson in January of ‘98. But the one night that undeniably saw Austin take the mantle as top WWE star was Wrestlemania 14. Stone Cold became the face of wrestling's new age... and changed WWE forever.

In the years to come, WWE attained unprecedented success in pay-per-view buyrates and television ratings.

A surge in WWE popularity was sorely needed in the 1997-98 timeframe. WCW was becoming the dominant wrestling company and there were whispers that WWE was close to shutting its doors. WWE looked to be down and out. WCW had many big name stars including Hogan, Hall, Nash, Savage, and Hennig, just to name a few. Nitro was pulling in ridiculously high ratings and WCW's executives probably believed that the Monday Night Wars were over. McMahon and Austin had other plans.

Together, Austin and McMahon saved WWE. Yes, they were aided by the amazing contributions of Mick Foley, The Rock, Triple H, and The Undertaker. But make no mistake about it; Austin and McMahon were the main characters of that crucial era.

But besides the historical nature of Austin's work as the top star of the Attitude Era, Austin was also a great wrestler. In his WWE run, Stone Cold entertained the fans in matches with Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, The Rock, Triple H, Kurt Angle, Mick Foley, and Kane.

In the late 90s, Austin did something special. He was the only captain of a wrestling company to beat a Hogan-led promotion. Austin's WWE beat Hogan's WCW. Austin was on the right side of history, Hogan was not. And perhaps that is why Austin is remembered so fondly by Vince McMahon. Hogan went to WCW and worked for a rival company that almost put WWE out of business. Austin on the other hand saved WWE from an untimely demise.

If the Hogan experiment failed, McMahon would have merely gone back to the drawing board. If the Austin experiment failed, WWE would have shut its doors because there was no time for a "plan B." Thus, Austin was more important to WWE than Hogan.

Who's The Greatest?

It's hard to say who the best is. If one is concerned with workrate, Hitman and Michaels were arguably the two best performers to ever lace a pair of boots. If one wants to debate who were the most important revolutionaries in wrestling history, Austin and Hogan will probably be the subject of discussion. If one considers uniqueness to be an essential quality, The Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak, remarkable longevity, and gimmick mastery have put the Deadman in a class by himself.

No question though, Austin is honored among legends. To be named the greatest of all time by Vince McMahon is a compliment of the highest order.

Will that make a few legends envious? Probably.



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Comments (61)

 
Scotty 2 Hotty

Posted By: Matt P (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 12:08 AM

 
 
Vince McMahon is the best ever, the Mr McMahon character and everything else he has done makes him the best ever.

In response to David, he pretty much explained every OMG CENA SUX comment properly. Im no Cena hater but what David said was pretty much spot on.


Posted By: Brad (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 12:25 AM

 
 
Austin is the greatest of all time to me:

-Outstanding Promos
-Revolutionary Matches
-High Quality Matches
-Ratings Machine
-Merchandise Machine
-Live Gate Machine
-Iconic Moments on both TV and PPVs

Austin could do it all, and did it all in at a time when his company needed a man's man to carry the ball. His only overall peer in terms of WWE lore is Hogan. Its Austin/Hogan and then everyone else. Rock is somewhat arguable, but has less historical significance than Austin.


Posted By: Shadowhendrix (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 12:32 AM

 
 
You do a good job of making the arguments for each star. Let me make the arguments against.

Bret Hart: One of the best technical wrestlers, and one of the few pure technicians to be given the ball to run with. However, Bret was rarely the focus of the company, even when he was champion. Think about it: even when Bret had a white-hot feud with Owen, culminating in a cage match, the main event was still UT v. UT. And during his last WWE run (arguably his best in terms of heat), he took a backseat to Shawn v. UT on the PPVs. Add that to the fact that Bret's time near the top was during wrestlings down' period, and Bret is out of contention, IMO.

Shawn Michaels: Definitely the best overall in terms of in-ring performances. HBK has had more 4-5 star matches since his comeback than most wrestlers have had in their careers. However, like Bret, HBK was on top during a down period for the company. Throw in his pre-injury attitude, and it's hard to say that Shawn deserves the nod for best of all time.

Undertaker: Might deserve it for longevity, but I see UT much as I saw Andre in the 80's. He's so over that he doesn't need a title run (although he's had several in the last few years). I could knock him for his first 4-5 years in the WWF, but that's petty. Major weakness? He's not the kind of star that brings new people into the company, and certainly hasn't had cross-over appeal.

Hulk Hogan: Without Hogan, wrestling as we know it does not exist. He was the guy who took it to the mainstream, and it's impossible to diminish his accomplishments in that regard. However, Hogan's backstage ego came close to destroying wrestling on several occassions, and certainly contributed to the downfall of WCW in the 90's. Throw in a workrate that was pretty much crappy 75% of the time, and I just can't put him at the top.

Steve Austin: Much like Hogan in the 80's, Austin helped to reinvent wrestling in the 90's. Unlike Hogan, Austin could actually work, even when he probably should have taken a few months off to rest. The only major downside is that Austin was every bit the politician that Hogan was, only more subtle about it.


Posted By: Michael L (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 01:09 AM

 
 
To tie this in to the beginning, McMahon is searching for another Hogan or Austin, and thinks he's hit gold in Cena. Wrong wrong wrong. Cena just doesn't have the crossover appeal of either star, no matter how much the WWE tries to convince us otherwise. What Cena has is heart and a willingness to work his ass off. He's got a decent set of mic skills, and a solid enough work ethic. If the WWE could lay off him enough, let him fade in the background a bit, and give a wisely booked heel turn, Cena could really explode as a personality. Austin and Hogan made heel turns at the right moment and were better for it. But for some reason, McMahon is afraid to let Cena loose, and has instead continued with the superman angle. Why not take a lesson from the Rock, who was so good as a heel in 98, he became an even bigger face? We know Cena can do the heel role well--as his 2003 run can attest. The fans are pretty much clamoring for a heel run (aside from the high-pitched voices and the kids). A smart turn might do him and the WWE a world of good.

Posted By: Michael L (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 01:11 AM

 
 
dolph ziggler < stone cold, hogan, and bret hart

Posted By: (guest) (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 01:19 AM

 
 
It was actually vince russo that saved WWE. He was the man behind the attitude era. It seems that nobody gives him credit for that though.

Posted By: Guest#4876 (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 01:23 AM

 
 
Who's the best wrestler of all time? An impossible question to answer for some. Kristopher made compelling arguments for every wrestler he mentioned. In my mind, it's a guy he didn't even mention...Kurt Angle. The guy has had five star matches with some huge names. In addition, he could give a great promo and in his early years in the WWE was pretty damn funny. Sure, he may not be a top draw ratings or PPV buyrate wise today but I think he deserves props for what he has accomplished.

Posted By: Geoff (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 01:32 AM

 
 
This should have been a one word atricle.

"YES."


Posted By: ROHFAN (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 01:33 AM

 
 
I always thought Austin fought funny even during his ring master gimmick. YEAH he is an important figure in wrestling history, but to make him the best ever,hmmm, that's just vINCE'S OPINION. Yes, Vince is the owner, and he could name on who he thinks who is the best, but is his opinion. The opinion that doeS matter is the fans and more importantly the wrestlers. The writer of this column sum it best, workrate it has to be Hart and Michaels. The wrestlers who revolutionize the wrestling industry is Hogan and Austin. But, Austin is not, the best, his reign lasted from 1997-1999, then The Rock became more popular. I am not a fan of the RocK and during Austin and Rock's tenure i never really watched WWE, Im a WCW mark. But when I was bored I watched WWE, and when I heard the Rock come out, he seemed to be more popular, the Rock came out to a louder pop. Also, Bret Hart led the WWE during the worst period ever in wrestling, but one has to admired that poeple still atendted and watched WWE thanks to Bret. If Bret Hart was not that good, I think the WWE would not have survived AND I FEEL PEOPLE SEEM TO OVERLOOK THAT. Bret Hart did saved the WWE during that crisis.

Posted By: REBEL (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 01:33 AM

 
 
I agree with your list, those are the defining choices for best ever. A few may add or subtract, but generally I think you're right.
About Cena, his biggest draw back is Vince McMahon. If vince would just let Cena be Cena he'd be over and a huge star. Maybe not with the greatest crossover appeal, but he'd be huge. Instead Vince and co. script his promo's to resemble Rock or Hogan, and it comes off as a cheap knock off. When Cena is genuine and himself the crowd, even the hard nosed IWC, respond favorably. If Vince and co. would get out of Cena's way they'd be much happier with the result.


Posted By: Last_Rider (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 01:42 AM

 
 
Orton= next big thing to save the company

Orton > Cena


Posted By: Guest#6976 (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 01:47 AM

 
 
To anyone saying Austin is the best ever...

Randy Savage would like to have a word with you.


Posted By: The Rev (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 02:35 AM

 
 
this was a GREAT read. very thought provoking and insightful, especially the closing paragraph.

"The Deadman is perhaps the best WWE gimmick ever."

i just want to say(and i don't care how much heat i get for it) that the gimmick of the undertaker is one of THEE worst gimmicks of all-time.
HEAR ME OUT. had anyone else been in the driver's seat instead of mark calaway, we wouldn't be having a discussion like this with an undertaker involved.
it's a testament to mark calaway that this gimmick not only worked, but become what it has. it's only great because of the man behind it.
i tend to look at alot of guys like kip james and goldust(the list goes on), and i think about their glory days and how fucking awesome their respective characters were at one point or another, and it kinda saddens me.
you can't do that with 'taker though, because he's better than ever. the point i'm making is that so many people mark out for 'taker and "the streak" that i wonder how many actually take time to appreciate mark calaway. sappy, but true.

with that out of the way, if we're talking the greatest, it's all just a matter of opinion.
if we're talking the biggest, i'd give that nod to austin.
if we're talking the best, i'll never NOT go with hbk.
but if you ask me who THEE GREATEST wrestler of all-time is, i'd say david arquette. i mean who could match the crossover success that he had with the scream trilogy?? and then once "see spot run" and "eight-legged freaks" came out, you knew he'd never be back.
there's all of this talking about where the wwe would've been without hogan or austin, but just look at wcw's untimely demise after arquette left. it's just sad.
and when people talk about the botched invasion angle, deep down, they're only mad because vince wouldn't write a big enough check for arquette to cash.
for now, we're just left with this terrible product filled with dead men vs. showstoppers, and legend killers vs. cerebral assassins. it's sad.
come back david. come back.

"Instead Vince and co. script his promo's to resemble Rock or Hogan, and it comes off as a cheap knock off. When Cena is genuine and himself the crowd, even the hard nosed IWC, respond favorably. If Vince and co. would get out of Cena's way they'd be much happier with the result. "

Posted By: Last_Rider (Guest) on April 12, 2009 at 01:42 AM

amen.


Posted By: Csonkamaniac III (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 02:46 AM

 
 
1. IMO, the Michaels v Hart Iron Man Match sucks fat ass. 60 minutes without a single pinfall/submission? 60 minutes of ego.

2. While in WCW Austin was a well rounded wrestler, "Stone Cold" was punch, kick, stompstompstomp, middle finger, stompstompstomp.

3. As for Cena, and why Vince doesn't utilize him differently? It MIGHT have something to do with the $ucce$$ they've had so far.

4. How are we even defining "superstar"? I doubt workrate is a part of VKM's idea.


Posted By: Guest#0586 (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 02:51 AM

 
 
Great article, and you end up making a very strong claim for HBK. But, as Michael L points out, HBK always ends up at the top of the card when wrestling is at the bottom of the public's consciousness.

Hogan's out after WrestleMania IX--HBK's main eventing by XI.

HBK retires after 14, WWF has a full head of steam by XV.

If HBK had been healthy during the height of the Attitude era, instead of just helping to usher it in, I don't think we'd even be wondering about the best of all-time. Programs, or more programs, with guys like Austin, Rock, Big Show, Triple H, Angle, Benoit, Guerrero in their primes? Almost all guaranteed to produce classic bouts and/or memorable storylines.

Plus, as he tried to give the rub to Edge and Y2J and Kennedy (successfully) and Chris Masters (eh) post-2002, imagine if he'd gotten to work similar programs with up-and-comers like Jarrett and D'Lo and Road Dogg, who had a lot of tools but never really had anyone to learn from or challenge them in the ring. If HBK had been around to help push these guys, we might have seen a much different main event picture from 2000 on.


Posted By: Sam! (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 02:59 AM

 
 
SCSA and Hogan are in a deadheat for my money. Both were trendsetters and flagbearers for their eras. Both sold merchandise like crazy both inside and outside of the normal fanbase. Both got Hollywood's attention and did notably well. It is really hard to choose who is the best for the WWE/F in the longrun.

I wouldn't discount Vince from the argument though. While we know Vince is a sham as a wrestler, he may well be the greatest WWE heel of all time. That has to count for something.


Posted By: thegunisgood (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 03:05 AM

 
 
I think if you combine everything that makes a pro wrestler great then HBK would be "it". Austin comes close as he was also pretty good in the ring and his promos were good too but Shawn was a step further in the ring than anyone almost, only the likes of Bret can claim they could tell a story in the ring aswell as Shawn could.

Ofcourse Hogan built it all but he wasent a very good performer, it dosent take away that he is the Babe Ruth of wrestling, people often forget that not only did Hogan build the then WWF and Wrestlemania, but he also made WCW a force to be known, the nWo angle would never have worked if it didnt have the Hogan heel in it to push it beyond. So he built the WWF and he pushed the WCW to its biggest success aswell as its failure. No wrestler can claim that, Austin helped the WWF survive during the Attitude era, but his shtick didnt last long and soon enough the Rock got just as big props as him.


Posted By: Nights (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 03:41 AM

 
 
Vince only thinks in drawing power. and since Austin is considered the biggest draw ever, Vince consideres him the greatest. simple as that.

Posted By: guy incognito (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 03:48 AM

 
 
no Flair??

Posted By: 6d6 (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 04:28 AM

 
 
RVD

Posted By: Guest#1503 (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 05:05 AM

 
 
I don't care if Austin is the GOAT, all I know is he's MY favourite of all time (tied with HBK) and that's good enough for me.

Posted By: Godpleton (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 05:14 AM

 
 
I think Austin is the greatest because he managed to combine the qualities of the others you mentioned into one.

Hogan drew an absolute shitload, but Austin was a better wrestler than him.

Angle, Bret and HBK are better wrestlers than him, but Austin drew more than them (and put more butts in seats than any of them)


Posted By: Bubba (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 05:20 AM

 
 
Vince said what he said purely as a shot at Hogan. Austin was great, but the Hulkster is the greatest, BROTHER!!!

Posted By: Vince Mac Mann (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 05:37 AM

 
 
No Comment

Posted By: Freeman (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 05:42 AM

 
 
Orton= next big thing to save the company

Orton > Cena

Posted By: Guest#6976 (Guest) on April 12, 2009 at 01:47 AM

lol


Posted By: Metalingus (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 05:47 AM

 
 
2 things: 1. Hart played "possum" not posse
2. As Vinces main concern is money this column only needed to go into 3 men, Hogan, Austin & The Rock. The rest are not on their level.


Posted By: The 47 (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 07:04 AM

 
 
Austin saved Vince. Had he have not been there in 97-01 then wwe would likely not exist now. That's why vince considers him the best

Posted By: personification (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 07:10 AM

 
 
I find it hard to disagree with anyone who says Austin is the greatest, the guy had the lot really, good in the ring, great on the stick, great gimmick & made lots of money.

Posted By: jbardo (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 07:14 AM

 
 
First off..the Rock means more to history than Bret, Shawn, and Undertaker. So all of that trying to put him in some second tier to appease your fanboyism of lesser stars doesn't work on one who's watched this and understood this better than one such as yourself.

Secondly, McMahon said what he said because he's out of favor with the Rock and Hulk Hogan. That's why he placed his most favored star from the Attitude Era over them. It can never be concretely true since in truth..it was the Rock putting over Austin when Austin NEEDED the Rock to put him over in 2001 making him a true legend over his previous work against Bret, Taker, and even Vince. So it's double edged political statement where Vince can dicate his favorite once and for all because Rock won't take Cena's bait for a return match and his iffy relationship with his original great draw in Hogan. Austin is great and was revolutionary but so was the Rock by being a heel that was so great he couldn't be heel anymore and practically every new talent that comes to the spotlight trying to copy Rocky's style in one format or another.


Posted By: Kingpin (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 07:23 AM

 
 
AUSTIN is the greatest wwe superstar of all time because vince mcmahon who OWNS WWE said so. he and mcmahon saved the wwe from benkruptcy and helped fight off that asshole ted turner and his favorite lapdog, eric bitchoff.

bret was a stupid whiner who actually assaulted the owner of wwe after he rightfully took a fake title off of him.

hogan was an egotistical scumbag who worked for wcw and tried to close down wwe.

i bet mcmahon is hoping that linda bollea and the graziano family force hogan into bankruptcy so that he knows what it feels like to lose everything.

rock came along after austin turned the tide against wcw for good. rock helped wwe finish off wcw until mcmahon could buy it from time warner and kill it for good.

cena is mcmahon's top star and he represents wwe with class after that whole crazy benoit bullshit tarnished wwe 2 years ago.

wwe does not need saving. wwe is an 800 million public company that is still very profitable and if the economy improves, wwe will be generating more profit than in the attitude era of the late 1990's.

tna and panda energy are smaller than wwe so mcmahon is not scared of tna in the least. he can put that cunt carter and that jerk jarrett in their place if necessary.


Posted By: Guest#5230 (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 07:58 AM

 
 
Austin from a historical, drawing, quality and wrestling ability perspective is definitely number one. I think without 'Austin' there would be no wwe today as I reckon WCW would of offically killed Vince. Obviously lots of other wrestlers contributed to this time period but he was the main focal point.

You could argue that Hogan was more of a revolutionist, Bret or HBK were better wrestlers, but interms of meeting all the important criterias he is number one.


Posted By: Andrew Barbarash (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 08:17 AM

 
 
i think this article is really a persoanl preference to the reader. I think Ric Flair (who i think should be on this list)said it best in his documentary when he said a great wrestler has to have three things: 1. A great character 2. Have great matches 3. Be able to "work the mic".
Now lets take a look at your list:
Hogan - good charater, good on mic, cant wrestle
Bret Hart - alright character, poor on the mic, great wrestler
Shawn Michaels - Good character, good on the mic, great wrestler (no matter who he worked with)
Undertaker - Greatest character of all time, ok on the mic, good wrestler
Austin - Great character, Great on the mic, Good wrestler

and just for SAG's, Ric Flair - Great Character, Great on the mic, Good Wrestler

I think STSA, HBK, and Flair are about equal. The only difference is that HBK can have a 4-5 star match with just about anyone where SCSA and Flair couldnt.
Redo this list in about 10 yrs and you can add Jericho to the list. IMO.


Posted By: Hum (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 08:47 AM

 
 
I actually like Cena, and feel that he has actually produced a fair few decent matches (he was one of the few people who pulled decent matches out of Umanga, Khali and Lashley) and has definitely improved in the ring. BUT like Batista, his character is stale and overexposed. I would love to see him turn heel and have Jeff Hardy take his spot as top face. And I'd put money that as soon as the heel turn is done, Cena would get much bigger pops. Does anyone remember the smirk on Cena's face before he gave RVD the 5 Knuckle Shuffle at One Night Stand 2006 and the anti-Cena crowd. That's the Cena i want to see.

Posted By: AH (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 09:41 AM

 
 
Don't let the ROH rapists or the TNA fags hear you calling Austin or Undertaker some of the best. They hate people who don't use ridiculously contrived flips straight from Jackass.

Tbh, Austin is the best.


Posted By: WWEFan (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 09:56 AM

 
 
the point stated in the comment at the start about cena being a company man and loving the business, thats why i like john cena, im an adult male, ive watched wrestling all my life and the rock was my favourite ever however cena IS wwe at the moment, if only in the eyes of everybody outside the wrestling world

Posted By: jacish23 (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 10:12 AM

 
 
Everyone is screaming for a Cena heel Turn , and Im all about it too, but until there is another superface to step up against the evil Cena than its a waste of time... He can battle HBK, Taker and .... Do you really wanna see HHH ? lol I mean really there isnt much for Cena the heel to fight against, The company is full of heels, eps since batista is about to make a full heel turn finally. There would need to be some mainevent faces in the picture in order for cena to make that jump.
Hopefully we get that before Cena completly turns into boring shit


Posted By: ight (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 10:23 AM

 
 
DAVID ARQUETTE IS THE GREATEST SUSPERSTAR IN WRESTLING HISTORY BAR NONE!!

Posted By: CM Wolf (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 10:52 AM

 
 
I have to say Bret is the best all-time. Go back to late 1992 Hogan was gone, Warrior was gone due to the steroid scandal if there was no Bret Hart WWE would have died! bret was a huge draw just because most of the fans on here live in the U.S. I understand Bret was only a decent draw there but up here in Canada, the U.K Germany and India Bret is arguably the WWE'S greatest draw of all time on the international market. Bret's work rate is the best of all time everyone he wreslted had their greates match of their carrer with BRET ex: stone cold, kevin nash,shawn michaels,davey boy smith,owen hart,mr.perefect Bret filled wembley stadium with over 80000 people in London he sold out every european tour he ever did from 1991 to 1997 he was the greates story teller of all tiem vince said it himself in his DVD so overall the HITMAN is the MAN!

Posted By: thurmas (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 11:49 AM

 
 
They will turn Cena heel when they want Triple H to beat him at Wrestlemania.

The problem with wrestling/wrestlers is that most of the top tier get over exposed especially today. Triple H, John Cena, Kurt Angle.

Austin would have been over-exposed but for his neck injury keeping him of TV, and as such is held in much higher public regard.

For my money the best ever wrestler is The Rock, fantastic promo guy, off the charts charisma, could work heel/face equally well, worked great matches, got out of the business leaving the public wanting more, but happy enough with what he had given.


Posted By: Guest#1268 (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 01:16 PM

 
 
How can this list not include the Rock. He took WWE to mainstream appeal that even Austin and Hogan couldn't. Being invited to speak at the DNC and RNC? Insane! Making a succesful crossover to movies? Unheard of in wrestling.

If we're including HBK and Hart based on their in-ring merits, how can we not include Kurt Angle who had just as many wrestling classics, and drew better business than both.


Posted By: BH (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 01:52 PM

 
 
Austin, for what he did for the bus s=and what he sacrificed should be consider at least top 3 if not #1. And for the record just cause shawn is more flasy ie doesnt make him a better wrestler, he is just over rated by the company due to his friendship with HHH. Bret was not only a better wrestler, but a bigger draw as well, also he never refused to put people people over like shawn.When shawn was the champ ratings were horrible. The wwf could have still done ok without shawn but probablty wouldnt have survived without Bret.
The undertataker is in consideration beacuse of the fact hes been so good for so long & there is no weakness about him(good ringwork,mic work, STILL very over).
The Rock even being considered 2nd teir is ridicoulous. When Austin was hurt he was the one who had the biggest hand in closing down WCW. He also had no weakness (GREATEST EVER on the mic, very underrated ring worker, ad probably the most over character ever by wrestlig fans & mainstrem media)
If you look at who is the most important guy ever than the top 3 are unquestionably Hogan,Austin,Rock,and really it could go either way. You could argue Bret because of his huge draw power overseas( people appreciate mikc work over most of the other stuff), or Taker (his role as the cornerstone for so long) as both being on their level. Shawn just wasnt as important as those guys.


Posted By: guest (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 02:20 PM

 
 
They will turn Cena heel when they want Triple H to beat him at Wrestlemania.

The problem with wrestling/wrestlers is that most of the top tier get over exposed especially today. Triple H, John Cena, Kurt Angle.

Austin would have been over-exposed but for his neck injury keeping him of TV, and as such is held in much higher public regard.

For my money the best ever wrestler is The Rock, fantastic promo guy, off the charts charisma, could work heel/face equally well, worked great matches, got out of the business leaving the public wanting more, but happy enough with what he had given.

Posted By: Guest#1268 (Guest)

Hard to argue when you put it like that. Austin just didnt seem real or as good as a heel, the rock played both roles to sheer perfection, head som clasic matches with a variety of guys, drew HUGE crowds $$, and became the most sucessful cross over star of all time.


Posted By: 4 real (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 02:26 PM

 
 
It's funny how some people automatically assume RoH fans only like high flyers even though the biggest names in the company have been technical wrestlers that throw in some brawling. Joe, Danielson, Nigel and Punk being prime examples.

Vince wants quality matches on his shows, that's why he likes guys like Bret, Owen, Eddy, Benoit, Jericho, Michaels, Finley. However Vince knows great in ring talent isn't needed to make money, as Hogan has proved being a bigger draw for both WWE and WCW than Flair. Despite not doing it as long as Hogan or Flair, Austin can nearly match both men what makes them so great.


Posted By: K. Bett (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 02:29 PM

 
 
They will turn Cena heel when they want Triple H to beat him at Wrestlemania.

The problem with wrestling/wrestlers is that most of the top tier get over exposed especially today. Triple H, John Cena, Kurt Angle.

Austin would have been over-exposed but for his neck injury keeping him of TV, and as such is held in much higher public regard.

For my money the best ever wrestler is The Rock, fantastic promo guy, off the charts charisma, could work heel/face equally well, worked great matches, got out of the business leaving the public wanting more, but happy enough with what he had given.

Grat argument, fully agree with the rock being #1. But the only the I dont agree wit is austin would have been over expossed, even if he did people could never get tired of his character becase it was just more intriuging than Cena or HHH.


Posted By: point well taken (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 02:30 PM

 
 
While I'm not gonna dwell on this aspect in light of the author's disclaimer, I'll still say that this article loses a bit of credibility by excluding the Rock from the conversation. I'm BIG HBK mark and didn't really have a lot of love for WWF when Rock got his big run, but I think it's borderline ridiculous to include Shawn, whose prime came when the company was at its lowest visibility, while excluding the Rock, who was the face of the company when the WWF was at its peak.

Meanwhile, Austin was on top during my favorite period, but it's a little hard to call him the best ever due to his lack of longevity. I'd say Hogan with Austin at a close second.


Posted By: AJP (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 03:55 PM

 
 
First off..the Rock means more to history than Bret, Shawn, and Undertaker. So all of that trying to put him in some second tier to appease your fanboyism of lesser stars doesn't work on one who's watched this and understood this better than one such as yourself.

Secondly, McMahon said what he said because he's out of favor with the Rock and Hulk Hogan. That's why he placed his most favored star from the Attitude Era over them. It can never be concretely true since in truth..it was the Rock putting over Austin when Austin NEEDED the Rock to put him over in 2001 making him a true legend over his previous work against Bret, Taker, and even Vince. So it's double edged political statement where Vince can dicate his favorite once and for all because Rock won't take Cena's bait for a return match and his iffy relationship with his original great draw in Hogan. Austin is great and was revolutionary but so was the Rock by being a heel that was so great he couldn't be heel anymore and practically every new talent that comes to the spotlight trying to copy Rocky's style in one format or another.

Posted By: Kingpin (Guest) on April 12, 2009 at 07:23 AM

shut the fuck up.

Austin, for what he did for the bus s=and what he sacrificed should be consider at least top 3 if not #1. And for the record just cause shawn is more flasy ie doesnt make him a better wrestler, he is just over rated by the company due to his friendship with HHH.

Posted By: guest (Guest) on April 12, 2009 at 02:20 PM

you're a fucking idiot.


Posted By: Csonkamaniac III (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 04:00 PM

 
 
The relationship between vince and hulk is horrible. The whole steriod controversy, the 2 huge ego's, Hulk leaving to wcw and almost putting the wwe out of business. The writers "Austin's WWE beat Hogan's WCW" is a false statement. There was more behind the scenes to what led wcw failing. Time warner sale was one huge nail in the coffin. Hogan and Vince will always have a bitterness/hidden mutual respect against/for eachother.
Vince knows that hogan is the greatest and said that "austin is the greatest" line as a shot to hulk.
If one makes an argument for austin, it just doesn't stand. To compare sales numbers from austin and hogan isn't fair. Given inflation and having an era where there was no online merchandising sales, ppv buyrates, and website hits the numbers from each year cant be compared. Take last year's wwe sales totals. Are you telling me John cena for having the 3rd highest merchandising sales is the 3rd biggest wrestling star of all time... get real. Lets talk about drawing power, marketability, recognition, and full mainstream crossover star power.. hogan cant even be compared.
Even with cena today, vince is still trying to create the next hogan. When it comes to mainstream fans and who is the biggest of all time there's not competition. Bret hart said it best, during the hogan era he had so much power and was so big that it was the only realistic time to get a union. Hogan had that star power, obviously at that time he chose to align with vince and went against the union.
When it comes down to it, the hall of fame and vince granting someone as the greatest are b.s. As shown with the macho man and chris beniot, he can bury a wrestlers legacy and do everything in his power to try to erase wrestling fans memories. He's seems like a crude man and everything he says has alternative motives. Let history and the public say who is the greatest, not vince


Posted By: Guest#6225 (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 04:24 PM

 
 
The relationship between vince and hulk is horrible. The whole steriod controversy, the 2 huge ego's, Hulk leaving to wcw and almost putting the wwe out of business. The writers "Austin's WWE beat Hogan's WCW" is a false statement. There was more behind the scenes to what led wcw failing. Time warner sale was one huge nail in the coffin. Hogan and Vince will always have a bitterness/hidden mutual respect against/for eachother.
Vince knows that hogan is the greatest and said that "austin is the greatest" line as a shot to hulk.
If one makes an argument for austin, it just doesn't stand. To compare sales numbers from austin and hogan isn't fair. Given inflation and having an era where there was no online merchandising sales, ppv buyrates, and website hits the numbers from each year cant be compared. Take last year's wwe sales totals. Are you telling me John cena for having the 3rd highest merchandising sales is the 3rd biggest wrestling star of all time... get real. Lets talk about drawing power, marketability, recognition, and full mainstream crossover star power.. hogan cant even be compared.
Even with cena today, vince is still trying to create the next hogan. When it comes to mainstream fans and who is the biggest of all time there's not competition. Bret hart said it best, during the hogan era he had so much power and was so big that it was the only realistic time to get a union. Hogan had that star power, obviously at that time he chose to align with vince and went against the union.
When it comes down to it, the hall of fame and vince granting someone as the greatest are b.s. As shown with the macho man and chris beniot, he can bury a wrestlers legacy and do everything in his power to try to erase wrestling fans memories. He's seems like a crude man and everything he says has alternative motives. Let history and the public say who is the greatest, not vince


Posted By: the truth (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 04:25 PM

 
 
austin, hogan, rock --- hickenbottom, bitch please.

Posted By: tully (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 04:27 PM

 
 
hbk
no doubt about it


Posted By: joe (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 04:48 PM

 
 
More people own a piece of Austin merchandise than those who own a piece of Hogan merch, inflation had nothing to do with it.

If Austin wanted to, he could come back for another 10 or more years fighting for the world title and the fans would eat it up just like they did before.

But instead, he chose to end his career on a high note than sticking around and taking the spotlight away from others who deserve their time in the limelight.

Every wrestler should follow Austin's example. After all, you don't hear anyone blaming HIM for a company's demise, do you?


Posted By: COTD (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 05:45 PM

 
 
It was actually vince russo that saved WWE. He was the man behind the attitude era. It seems that nobody gives him credit for that though.

Posted By: Guest#4876 (Guest) on April 12, 2009 at 01:23 AM

It was Paul E. Heyman that saved wwe. He was the one that let austin's character loose in ecw before he was a wwf/e icon AND he was basically the creator of the attitude era as it was his idea first to produce edgy television.


Posted By: cj (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 05:58 PM

 
 
I think Vince's statement might carry a little more weight if Austin had the longevity as top man that Hogan did. If Austin had been healthy enough and been given the option to run with 8-10 wrestlemanias, this might not even be close. I also believe Vince was really taking a shot at Hogan and Rock with that statement, as I believe Vince tries to goad the Rock with every chance he gets now.

Posted By: You wanna piece of me Stid (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 07:25 PM

 
 
To add from my first post, in each generation there always 3 best wrestler who are recognize beyond the rosters of wrestlers, for instance: during the golden age it was: HULK HOGAN, WARRIOR, AND MACHO MAN RANDY SAVAGE. During the New Generation, it was the one and only BRET HITMAN HART, SHAWN MICHAELS, AND THE UNDERTAKER. The Attitude Era it was, Austin, The Rock, and SUCK UP HHH, Now is Batista, Edge, and Cena. I wonder if anyone notices a pattern, each generation had their icons. The golden era, people mentions Hogan, but still we should not take away Warrior's and Randy Savage's contribution because they helped Hogan a lot. Next, who is the embodiment of the New Generation then Bret Hitman Hart, if u look at Wresllemania 10, they showed a promo were Bret is shown as the leader, Yes, for all u people HBK FANS, HBK OF COURSE PLAYED a prominent role, but he was not the leader, and the Undertaker was amazing just like Shawn, they were Bret's supporting cast, and indeed very, very, very, VERY, VERY important supporting cast. Austin was the leader of the attitude era, but the Rock was also very important just like HBK. Batista has an amazing following, but Cena is becoming more popular than Batista, just like the Rock did back in the attitude era. to sum up the best in each generation is, HOGAN (GOLDEN ERA), BRET HART (NEW GENERATION), Austin (Attitude Era), Batista and Cena running to BE co-leaders for this new era of wrestling, maybe one day we will know, who is the leader. but I hope is Batista instead.

Posted By: REBEL (Guest)  on April 12, 2009 at 09:37 PM

 
 
Isn't it strange no on has mentioned HHH as the greatest WWE Superstar of all time since he has won the MOST WWE World Titles?

Posted By: Guest#0659 (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 02:04 AM

 
 
No love for potentially the greatest... Brock Lesnar!

Posted By: Paul Heyman (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 02:45 AM

 
 
"While in WCW Austin was a well rounded wrestler, "Stone Cold" was punch, kick, stompstompstomp, middle finger, stompstompstomp."

You try wrestling with a broken neck and see how well rounded you are.


"cena IS wwe at the moment, if only in the eyes of everybody outside the wrestling world"

It's only people in the wrestling world who know who John Cena is. Go to the streets and ask non-wrestling fans to name an active WWE wrestler, and I'm sure more people will say the Undertaker than John Cena (simply because Taker was around in the last big boom).


Posted By: Mr Quimby's Beard (Guest)  on April 13, 2009 at 07:58 AM

 
 
I know i'm going to get a lot of heat for this, but I personally think that chris benoit was the best wwe wrestler.

Posted By: Travis (Guest)  on April 14, 2009 at 12:24 PM

 
 
bret hart is the reason why hardcore fans hate cena. after hogan left. he ushered in the novel idea that the top wrestler in the fed should be the TOP WRESTLER.
all the top guys since hart could hold their own in the ring.

as for the greatest wwe superstar, one name, two words-THE ROCK.


Posted By: rey (Guest)  on April 14, 2009 at 07:42 PM

 
 
Paul Roma.

Posted By: Raul Poma (Guest)  on April 16, 2009 at 03:45 AM

 


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