411’s Buy or Sell 4.17.09: The Young Bucks Status, Sylvan Grenier Comes to Ring of Honor, Bryan Danielson’s Future, and More!!

Posted by Michael Bauer on 04.17.2009

This week, the 411 staff looks at Japan, PWG, and Ring of Honor as Ryan Byers battles Jake Chambers in Buy or Sell!

Welcome everyone to WEEK One Hundred Four of BUY or SELL. For those of you who haven't been with us since the beginning, here's the Reader's Digest version of what this column is all about. BUY or SELL is very much like 411's long-running Fact or Fiction column. The main difference is that BUY or SELL focuses on topics like the U.S. Independent scene, Lucha Libre, Japanese Wrestling and pretty much anything else that isn't mainstream wrestling, WWE and or TNA. This allows for these areas to get a bit more press and for you, our loyal readers, to learn even more about the sport of professional wrestling.


Week Number 104's Match-Up:

411 Wrestling's own version of a Japanese Wrestling Encyclopedia- Ryan Byers!
vs.
Making his final Buy or Sell Appearence- Jake Chambers !

Pro Wrestling Guerilla having a comedy match involving Bryan Danielson is a waste of talent.

Ryan Byers : SELL. Though a lot of fans make the false distinction between "wrestling" and "entertainment," the fact of the matter is that pro wrestling matches are supposed to be entertaining. Whether it's a two minute WWE television match, an indy broadway of the sort that we normally see from Danielson, or an Ebessan-style yuk-fest, the goal is to draw the crowd in and make sure the enjoy themselves from bell to bell. I would say that "wasting" a wrestler's talent is putting him a position in which it is impossible for him to do that. As a result, putting Danielson in to a comedy match hardly qualifies. Would I expect a largely humorous affair if I saw the American Dragon advertised for my local indy card? Of course not. However, this is a guy who has some legitimate claim to being "The Best in the World" in professional wrestling, and a large part of that is due to the fact that he works well in just about every genre of the pseudo-sport. Though he is primarily known for his technical wizardry, he can also brawl with the best of them, fly when he is called upon to do so, and, yes, he's even downright funny in between the ropes when he feels like it. Booking Danielson in a comedy match isn't a waste, particularly when you can access five hundred other "serious" wrestling matches by the Washington native from a variety of different promotions. Bryan Danielson in a comedy match is an opportunity to see a very good comedy match, and everybody complaining about his recent PWG bout with Kenny Omega needs to get over themselves, buy the DVD, and enjoy the contest for what it is.

Jake Chambers : SELL. No match featuring ‘American Dragon' is a waste of talent. Bryan Danielson is the James Brown, the Michael Jordan, the Pete Sampras, the Bruce Lee, the Eddie Van Halen, hell, even the Vince McMahon, of ‘indy wrestling'. This man is a game changer, who has dominated his medium so thoroughly that all of indy wrestling has started to reflect back in his image. Someone of such transcendent power is above the mere distinctions of comedy, high flying, strong style, death match, or technical wrestling.

Although I didn't see last weekend's Danielson matches in Los Angeles, I'm sure that when viewed Dragon will not come across like Eugene or something. The matches most likely feature some damn funny comedy aspects mixed into the overall brilliance of the performance. To say Danielson is only capable of technical bouts would be like saying that Park Chan Wook can only make revenge films, Yukio Mishiima only writes about repressed homosexuality, or that Howard Stern only makes dick and fart jokes.

There is not a single wrestler in the world, not Colt Cabana or Kikutaru, not Larry Sweeney or Santino Marella, not even (…oh god, am I really going to say this?!) Goldust himself, who I would rather watch doing ‘comedy' inside a professional wrestling match than ‘American Dragon' Bryan Danielson. He stands at the forefront of an industry, legion in his powers as a performer, entertainer, storyteller and athlete. Laugh no more puny earthlings, Bryan Danielson makes comedy, and his ability to do this should be no laughing matter.

1 for 1.

The Young Bucks are the most underrated tag team in Indy wrestling.

Ryan Byers : SELL. Whenever you try to label somebody as "overrated" or "underrated," you have to ask the follow-up questions of "Overrated by whom?" or "Underrated by whom?" For example, a lot of wrestlers who hung around in WCW's lockerroom fifteen years ago would have told you that Brad Armstrong was one of the best workers in the company. He was probably underrated by management, but he was greatly respected amongst his fellow performers and not underrated in that regard at all. As a result, this question is a little bit vague, so I'm going to take "indy wrestling" to mean the perception of both fans and promotions considered together. If that is the case, I do not think that you can call the Young Bucks the most underrated team in indy wrestling. Some people may try to slap that label on them because they are not in the country's biggest indy promotion (ROH) even though they managed to get over in a major promotion overseas (Dragon Gate). However, indy wrestling doesn't begin and end in Ring of Honor. Outside of the fact that one particular promotion has not seen it fit to give them a roster spot, the Jackson brothers appear to be very well-respected on the indy circuit. Pro Wreslting Guerrilla books them as a top act, CHIKARA recently brought them in for the first time and gave them the superstar treament, and fans universally love them. If anything, I would give the "most underrated" label to the tag team of Amasis and Ophidian, who, despite being the focal point of CHIKARA's tag team division, has gotten only the briefest of looks from ROH, has not yet been booked on the west coast, and has not received nearly the level of kudos that certain less entertaining teams (Hello, American Wolves) have.

Jake Chambers : SELL. I am ‘SELL'-ing this one because the term ‘underrated' infers that they are better than their reputation indicates, yet in my opinion they deserve the mild success they've achieved, no more and no less. I don't think the Young Bucks are a must-see team on the indy scene, like the Briscoes or the SAT were when they started out, but they're definitely good. Besides, I would hardly call a team with so much success in the exceptional Dragon Gate promotion in Japan as ‘underrated.'

If you really wanna talk ‘underrated' indy tag teams, how about that poor Cheech and Cloudy. I don't think people even remember that they exist sometimes, but they've quietly toured the country and competed on so many various indy promotions while transforming from two petite, scrawny, male valets into a seriously capable and highly entertaining tag team.

I'll tell you who is very underrated though, and that's North Korea. Yes, it's a bit off topic, but that North Korea is a team that most people kind of take for granted as a bit looney and arrogantly naïve, and don't really expect them to do anything truly dangerous. As their country gets poorer and their military might grows stronger, eventually something will have to give, and we may very well end up seeing a squadron of starving dog, zombie-like soldiers dropping on countries from the sky and ripping apart people like retired Old Navy chimpanzee actors. Indy tag teams are not this desperate, although they may also be starving for their ideology and known for high flying attacks that thrill their fan base and make an impact on those who doubt them. Therefore, if the Young Bucks want to step up to the next level, on their spring tour of Japan they should wrestle a Tapadong-2 missile to the ground and shooting star press that fucker into dust!

2 for 2.

After his performance in the Champion' Carnival exceeded expectations, Kaz Hayashi will win the All Japan Triple Crown within a few years.

Ryan Byers : BUY. This wouldn't surprise me at all. In fact, even before Hayashi had his excellent run in the Champion Carnival, I wouldn't be completely caught off guard if he moved up to the heavyweight division and won the Triple Crown at some point within the next five years. Why? Even though they've been putting out a fairly entertaining, consistent product lately, All Japan doesn't exactly have the deepest of rosters. The vast majority of their heavyweights who have been protected have already had runs in the title picture, so, in order to make sure that they have credible and fresh champions for the future, they have to either bring in an outsider or bump up a junior. Hayashi, given his awesome in-ring performances night in and night out, is probably the best candidate for such an elevation, and the fact that he has always seemed to be a favorite of Mutoh's doesn't hurt matters either.

Jake Chambers : BUY. I would say that he probably wouldn't even get a shot at the Triple Crown, let alone win it. Major title matches in All Japan, and most Japanese promotions, don't happen as often as they do here, and I don't think All Japan would waste one on the lightweight Kaz Hayahsi.

In my opinion, the fact that Kaz made it to the finals of the Champion's Carnival tournament doesn't say anything about Kaz's future, but more about how far the Carnival has fallen and how weak the All Japan roster has become. The guy basically had to rebuild himself from scratch after the fall of WCW, and that was ten years ago and he still isn't really that interesting to watch. On the other hand, Kaz's WCW Japanese peer Yuji Nagata went on to main event status in New Japan without really being that dynamic either. It's really all about the weight over there. Nagata is a medium sized heavyweight while Hayashi is a short lightweight. The fact that a repackaged, lightweight, US jobber made it so far in the Champion Carnival is pretty sad given the once prestigious nature of that tournament and caliber of the matches fought within.

2 for 3.

SWITCH~!

Now that they are on television, Ring of Honor needs to bring back a secondary title..

Jake Chambers : BUY. And not just one, but I think they need two more titles. ROH needs new belts that would be exclusively competed for in the continuity of their TV universe. These would be self-contained HDNET singles and tag team championships, both of which would be defended in 20-minute time limit matches.

After four weeks, I truly believe that the ROH on HDNET show captures the spirit of Ring of Honor quiet impressively and the amount of great pure wrestling per hour has been stunning. The biggest distraction when watching the show is getting lost in the odd continuity stream that the show drifts through. You've got Jerry Lynn winning the ROH Title on a show that is taped for pure DVD release, then the next week the HDNET TV show airs, featuring Jerry Lynn without the title in the main event. The announcers recognize that Lynn has just won the title in the present day at the start of the show, but never mention it again during the match commentary. And then on PPV this weekend we've got Nigel McGuiness defending the title against El Generico at the same time as two ROH live events, neither of which feature Jerry Lynn, Nigel McGuiness or the ROH Title. The continuity shuffles are harder to keep track of than DC's ‘Final Crisis'!

If the HDNET show had it's own titles, at least they could continue to evolve in their own self-contained pocket of the ROH universe, you know, that strange place where Brodie Lee and Eddie Kingston are ROH main eventers and the Dark City Fight Club is good. These titles wouldn't have to be ‘secondary' but more parallel in stature to the original titles, in the same fashion that ROH established the Pure Wrestling Title. With separate, but not necessarily ‘secondary' titles, the ROH bookers could concentrate on creating coherent storytelling on TV without worrying about the actions happening in the present time stream.

Ryan Byers : SELL. In my time discussing professional wrestling on the internet, I've seen a lot of people argue that secondary singles championships are necessary in televised promotions so that undercard wrestlers have "something to do" while the main event crew feuds over the promotion's world title. I have always thought and continue to think that this is one of the most idiotic arguments that I have ever seen in my life. If you want to give undercard wrestlers something to do, you do not have to provide them with a secondary title. You simply have to book them in well-thought out feuds with one another revolving around personal issues and/or elevation up the card. A title is no way, shape, or form a necessary part of giving them something to do. Besides, Ring of Honor has exactly one hour of television. With only sixty minutes in a week, a strong World Title, a Tag Team Title which has historically been almost as strong as the World Title, and the SHIMMER Title, things are already going to be crowded in terms of making sure that each championship gets enough exposure, especially when you factor in all of the non-title programs which will also be going on. Adding a secondary singles championship and attempting to get it regular exposure in addition to all of the existing belts would in all likelihood result in overbooking that we have not seen since the worst days of TNA.

2 for 4.

Sylvan Grenier's appearence this weekend will be a total bust.

Jake Chambers : BUY. No doubt, the former La Resistance member will be a bust in ROH. Grenier was hardly an indy style ‘workrate' performer in the WWE, and he will struggle with this one-match appearance alongside some polished pure wrestlers. WWE style wrestlers, like Jeff Hardy and D'Lo Brown, have had a tough time adjusting to the ROH style (not sure about the Pearce-era ROH, but I'd guess it's about the same), and even indy style guys like Matt Hardy, Christian and Joey Matthews were not very effective in their first ROH outings. So a no-talent like Sly has no chance of impressing anyone this weekend.

On top of that, Genier's French. Doesn't it go with out saying that the French suck, especially in pro-wrestling! People just instantly hate pro-French Frenchies, like Frenchie Martin, and I'm guessing probably those self-hating Quebec French will too. I'm sure the fans in Montreal on Friday night will be cheering for Kevin Steen and El Generico, two of the most un-French Quebecers you'll find outside of Jean Charest himself. I don't know, call me crazy or call me prejudiced, but after decades of seeing all these arrogant, snotty French douche bags on my wrestling shows, I can't help but Al Bundy-up and be a full on, pop culture French hater! F the French!

Ryan Byers : SELL. No matter how heavily he was being pushed in WWE, Sylvan Grenier always got over huge when the company came through his home province of Quebec, regardless of whether he was being booked as a face or as a heel. As a result, I think that it is a rather smart move for ROH to give him a shot for their upcoming show in Montreal. You could argue that he won't get over nearly as well in fornt of an ROH crowd in Montreal, but you can't forget that other non-regulars who aren't up to the "workrate" standards of ROH have managed to get superstar-level reactions when presented to fans who have warm, fuzzy memories of them. (Bushwacker Luke and Kamala immediately come to mind.) If that holds true, Grenier probably won't result in any additional DVDs being sold to Ring of Honor's hardcore fanbase, but he might just help get the crowd going in this relatively new market for the company. ROH was also smart in hedging its bets, as Grenier isn't exactly being featured prominently in his appearance. He's stuck in a six man tag team match in which he can pick his spots and allow the wrestlers whose styles are more typical of the company to work around him. As such, I sincerely doubt that Sylvan's in-ring work will ever have a chance to "bust," even if he doesn't get the huge reactions he used to get when competing for his former employer.

2 for 5.

With Bryan Danielson's contract status, he will never again be a legitmate contender for the RoH World Title.

Jake Chambers : SELL. This is ROH we're talking about here, they gave the World Title to CM Punk who then signed his WWE contract on the belt in the ring, and subsequently lost it to a WWE bound James Gibson. ROH will not decide who is champion based on contracts. In fact, do we even know if Jerry Lynn is under an official ROH contract at this point? The ROH wrestling contract seems to have been a short lived experiment, given the Larry Sweeny debacle, and Nigel and Dragon indicating that they won't re-sign, so really, what is the point? ROH was stronger creatively before any of these long-term contracts anyways.

The real question should be, if promised a minimum six-month reign as ROH champion would Danielson re-sign a full-time contract? My guess is he'd go for it, but why would he want to re-sign given the position he's been put in as a menial mid-carder. Danielson had one of the greatest championship reigns in pro-wrestling history cut short by an injury and he should be given the opportunity to continue his heel champion character at some point in ROH's future.

On a somewhat related note, does anyone think that the ROH contracts are a failure? If this idea did not work, then does that not indicate that professional wrestlers truly are independent contractors? ROH, a seemingly well run business and critically adored product, attempted to give financial security and health care to their regular workers, during a rough economic time, and even with the expansion of the business onto PPV, national DVD shelves, and cable television, still the performers feel the need to ask for more freedom and independence from their guaranteed contracts.

Therefore, if indy workers cannot find a way to make contracts work at the lowest levels of the pro-wrestling business engine then the idea of unions and contracts should be thrown out for the major leagues as well, wouldn't you think, since at that level the expectations are higher but the appetites of the wrestlers born from this indy culture must be that much more insatiable. While I don't think the angelic Bryan Danielson specifically is responsible for this trend, his current political situation in Ring of Honor does make me wonder about the state of unions and social economics in professional wrestling's future.

Ryan Byers : SELL. "Never" is a pretty strong word. Danielson is far too over with the company's core group of fans to ever be completely discounted as a contender for the championship. Even if he is with the company part-time, I would not be surprised at all to see Ring of Honor put the strap on him again if they wind up in a bind. If a champion is horiffically injured or otherwise rendered unable to complete a scheduled reign, Dragon makes for a great, convenient quick fix who can never be disqualified as an option to come in as gapfiller for a brief reign.

3 for 6.


The One Hundred Fourth edition of BUY or SELL finishes at 3 for 6! Stay tuned for next week as two more people will go head to head with a whole new set of topics.