If I Could Be Serious For A Moment 05.05.09: Pro Wrestling Irritated
Posted by Chris Lansdell on 05.05.2009
Why Vince hates the internet, what he does to show it, and why both parties need to stop the hate.
Greetings, humanity! Welcome back to If I Could Be Serious for a Moment, your weekly dose of intelligent wrestling discourse with me, Chris Lansdell. After last week's unscheduled absence due to internet issues, I've got a topic for you this week that relates to the internet. It's something I've wanted to bring up ever since a PPV Round Table we did a while ago. We'll get to that shortly, but first the
BANNER!
Vince vs the Internet
It's no secret that Vince McMahon is no fan of anything that tries to control or expose "his" business. Whether it's revealing documentaries like Beyond the Mat, almost-true movies like The Wrestler or the backstage leaks that reveal his storylines or surprises, Vince likes to keep a tight reign on everything wrestling. Although the first two are completely out of his control, Vince still feels he can control the IWC and what gets out through them. It's also been my opinion for a while that he books specifically to annoy or confound the internet fans. Why? How? Does Vince need the internet? Does it need him?
10 Things I Hate About You
Imagine you are the owner of a multi-million-dollar business. It's an entertainment business that makes its money off being able to keep its fans guessing and on their toes. Your employees have a precarious morale due to being on the road so often and having to work with minor injuries. You have to share trade secrets with your employees in various positions and you have to trust that they will not pass them on. Instead, your surprises and ideas get leaked to the public constantly. Your employees get attacked and slandered by journalists, being the subject of everything from aspersions on their wrestling ability to rumours of disciplinary action and firings. Your scripts, methods, procedures and even your ideas are often public knowledge before everyone in the company knows about them. It's borderline industrial espionage, and it's really no surprise that, given these things, Vince McMahon hates the IWC.
411mania is one of the more reputable sites on the internet, in that we do not publish half-founded or unfounded rumours. However, in order to keep up in the never-ending click war, we have to post spoilers, backstage sightings and other confirmed stories or rumours from reputable sources. As such, the phenomenon is self-fuelling: all have to stop, or none will stop. I think if the leaks were limited to spoilers of taped shows, Vince would be OK. He has to expect that a taped show's results will be blabbed, but it's when the news of people arriving backstage for a show starts coming out that he gets pissed. Surprise returns or debuts pop the crowd and make people want to watch every show in case they miss something, a feeling that's been sorely missing from WWE recently. Even if the named person doesn't appear on the show, their presence can be seen as a sign that they will be signing with WWE.
Of course who is backstage and what happened on a taped show are not the only things to get leaked, nor are they the most important. By far the more important and costly leak is that of storylines. Who is scheduled to win what feud might not always be a big problem unless a title is involved, but who is getting a program with whom and who is turning face or heel can be a big secret. Yet somehow, they seem to find there way to the public eye. Worse still, we have recently started to see things like scripts, lineup cards and the like have been leaked. Not only do these items show where the stories are going, they also show the degree to which things are scripted and generally slaughter any vestige of kayfabe that might have been left in wrestling.
What has to both anger and scare Vince McMahon is that he has to know that these leaks are coming from one of his employees, someone he pays, employs and trusts. With everything we know of Vince's temperament, it has to be killing him that he is paying someone to spill both his trade secrets (regarding everything from promos to match timing to pyro cues) and the substance of his program. That HAS to be disconcerting to say the least.
Perhaps even more disconcerting is the fake news that some less-than-reputable sites will put up on slow news days. You know, the kind of stuff Shad Gaspard complains about: X is getting fired, Y is in the doghouse, Z is about to get suspended for wellness, A and B had a backstage scuffle, Paul London smokes too much pot...wait, not so much the last one. Right now, wrestling is in a delicate position. They have a lot of young, fragile guys on the roster who don't necessarily know how to handle false stories in the news, especially since there have been cases of people learning of their release on the dirt rags. These same guys are too timid or too stubborn to listen to the veterans, or maybe the advice doesn't always hit home, and their morale starts to suffer, their performance with it. In the current environment, Vince is left with little choice but to remove them from TV, thus making the false news into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
YOU! SHALL NOT! PASS!
So what does Vince do in a case link this? He takes steps. Measures. Precautions, if you will. Some, like banning camera phones and not allowing E-60 to tape a whole production meeting, make sense. Some are a little extreme. The most famous example of an extreme step was the tarping of the elimination chamber structure while the wrestlers rehearsed for No Way Out. This was ridiculed at the time, but really what choice did Vince have? Had one of the leaks seen Edge rehearsing with the Raw guys, or the SD guys doing most of their match without Edge, it would have been worldwide in 10 minutes. Another recent example can be seen in the booking of Christian's return. When it became known that Christian had re-signed with WWE (another leak!), the rumours started about his re-debut. The most prevalent suggestion was that he would end up being the one behind Jeff Hardy's streak of bad luck...which of course didn't happen. Instead he went to ECW and we got a Hardy Boyz feud.
It has been well-publicised (again, by more leaks!) that Vince McMahon is very secretive about his ideas, changing the booking several times before key PPVs and not letting anyone in on his thought process until the last minute. When he does share his ideas, it's with as few people as possible, very much on a need-to-know basis. When John Cena shocked everyone at 2008's Royal Rumble, the only people who knew were those who would be in the ring at the time number 30 came out, Vince himself, Michael Hayes and Pat Patterson. As a result, the entire wrestling world was shocked when it Cena's music hit.
In an effort to find leaks, Vince has also been known to selectively leak false news to suspected moles. This has lead to more than one firing from his creative team. Although on the face of it this might seem too much, it's really a smart move because you quite simply cannot have a dishonest person on your staff. Recently John Carle was released from the creative team for leaking a script online, and I know one more was too. I want to say Dave Lagana but that might be wrong.
Cause and Effect
Unfortunately, Vince's obsession with restricting information has hurt him far more than it's helped. For one, the news is still getting out, and with not much of a decrease. Yet Vince continues to hoard his ideas, imposing them on the talent with no filter and no discussion. This often leads to Vince booking the shows for himself, because if there's one thing Vince has consistently shown over the past few years it's that he has not got his finger on the pulse of today's fans. When wrestlers are put in angles, matches and situations where they are not comfortable, or that have changed 4 times since the morning production meeting, it once again lowers morale and prevents them from performing at their best.
The desire to stay one step ahead of IWC guesses, predictions and "backstage sources" has often meant last-minute changes to plans, some of which can be a little hard to figure out. WrestleMania 22 was a perfect example of this, where Rey Misterio was not supposed to win the title as late as the morning of the event. Ken Kennedy said in a recent interview that he has had match results change while he was in the Gorilla position, and had an on-air appearance cancelled recently mere minutes before it was meant to happen because it got leaked.
Perhaps the most insidious result of Vince's IWC vendetta is his treatment of internet darlings. If you look at the members of the WWE roster that are favourites of the IWC – Shelton, Punk, Morrison, even Jamie Noble – very few of them ever get strong pushes. People will give you various reasons for this, and one of them is that Vince won't push anyone that the internet loves, because the internet has done so much to scupper his plans. Vindictive and petty? Maybe, but that's Vince.
The IWC has an effect too though. All the leaks and such make people watch far less often, because they know when it's going to get good. This too leads to Vince trying to make changes, like with the Jericho Save_Us return dragging on longer than anyone expected. With every 'net journalist predicting that the return would come that week, people kept tuning in until the eventual return.
I love you, I hate you, I can't live without you
The problem Vince has is that he needs the internet. For one thing, it's a solid barometer. Ratings and live attendance can only tell you so much, but the internet and its anonymity and universal access tells you so much more. The IWC is a barometer of how his product is doing, a brutally honest and hypercritical Nielsen rating. If they say you suck, you might not suck, but if the IWC starts praising your shows (or at least the majority do, one trait of the IWC is that we never agree) then you're doing most things right. We're a hard bunch to please but we know what we like and when we get it we exalt it to the heavens.
There's also the word-of-mouth aspect. Vince's PPV replays still do some good numbers, and in this digital age a lot of the reason for that is the passing of positive reviews from person to person through blogs, Twitter, Facebook and such. Vince is not slow to use his own website to promote news, which is quickly picked up and propagated by the independent sites. And the DVD releases, which almost always get rave reviews, certainly don't suffer from the big-time pimping they get from the likes of JD Dunn.
In a sweet touch of irony, Vince uses the internet to keep in touch with the indy wrestling world. Through the IWC, he knows who is popular in the smaller feds and who he should be raiding. Or rather, where he should send the scouts. No way does Vince lower himself to watch anything that isn't in HD. He can hunt down all the bodybuilders he wants, but ultimately I think he knows that he needs the skill guys to carry the power guys, and he knows where to find them.
Fanning the Flames
We in the IWC are hardly blameless. If there's one thing the IWC is guilty of more than any other, it's inflating our sense of importance in the wrestling world. While it's true that the opinions of the Dunns, Csonkas and Meltzers of the IWC are valued by fans and even some companies, the majority of writers on the majority of sites barely register as a blip. What we WANT to happen has little to no bearing on what WILL happen, because by and large we're not the ones with the disposable income. That's the families who go to events and shop on wweshop.com. We're not normally the noes with marketing degrees or experience in writing for TV, and we haven't been in the business for 50 years. Really all we are is fans with favourites and more knowledge than the ones screaming at the arenas. We want our favourites to succeed just like the kids do, but instead of cheering for them at a stadium we'd rather bitch on a computer that they aren't holding every belt in existence, as if it will make a difference.
Really, doing this just hurts our chosen ones more than it helps them. With the exception of established main eventers like Edge and Randy Orton, who both enjoy(ed) some degree of IWC popularity, Vince is certainly not going to push someone just because we like them. The more we whine and bitch about the lack of push, the less likely it becomes. If they read the internet themselves, they're going to start believing in the hype and wondering why they're not getting pushed. This happened to the Motor City Machine Guns (yes I know they're in TNA) and CM Punk, to a lesser extent.
Of course, the more leaks that pop up and the more we try and coax out of the WWE, the more determined McMahon will become to shut us out. Why do we need to know on Tuesday what will happen on Friday? Can we not wait? Why do we have to know who might get fired or who isn't in tight with management? Can't we just watch wrestling and enjoy it? Apparently we can't, because we have to show how smart and connected we are, first by making "great" predictions, then by masquerading them around as facts. Out time is so precious that we cannot force ourselves to watch a show unless it contains 11 four-star matches. The less we watch, the more Vince feels he has to shuffle the deck and get outlandish to bring us back...and that's not what we want.
What we do want is for the two sides to realise that they are far better working together than trying to one-up each other. You find out Jericho is coming back, I don't give him the belt. You don't give him the belt, we obtain a script. You get a script, we tarp the ring. Stop the madness!
There can be only one
Winner, that is. Eventually, Vince will die, while the IWC will live on. It's a war he cannot hope to win, but while he's alive he can certainly win battles. Vince, like a megalomaniac, wants to control things beyond his purview, like the internet. The IWC reminds me of a malevolent android: created to help us, but ultimately too big and too smart to be controlled by humans. It knows its purpose and it feeds on itself, because it cannot endorse and advertise inferior lifeforms. It exerts what it feels is superiority, refusing to acknowledge that anything less than awesome can be any good. Vince is the one guy trying to defeat the android, but in doing so loses his own humanity in the process.
Me? I just want to watch some wrestling.
Well folks, that's my creativity tapped out. I'll see you next week, same time same channel. To make sure you don't miss it, you can follow 411wrestling or just me on Twitter, or of course you can just bookmark 411mania!
Posted By: Chungles (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 01:41 PM
I think there's a widespread misconception about how strongly Vinnie-Mac feels about "exposure". If you look at the business today, they're barely even trying to suspend our disbelief anymore. Tonight there's a Smackdown taping here in Pittsburgh, and the post-air main event features John Cena and Triple H, both of whom are supposed to be injured. Besides that, shoot interviews with guys who are UNDER CONTRACT with WWE are popping up all the time now; ever check out the UK Sun's website? While I'm sure Vince hates spoilers about things he wants to keep as surprises, I don't think that constitutes a fear of overexposure. I think that is just another internet myth.
Posted By: KanyonKreist (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 01:48 PM
Vince die? LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Posted By: Guest#6455 (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 01:55 PM
I think there's a widespread misconception about Vinnie-Mac's supposedly strong feelings on "exposure". While I agree that Vince hates people ruining his surprises -- and who doesn't? -- I feel that "sports entertainment" today is so exposed that nobody even tries to suspend disbelief anymore.
You see wrestlers who are UNDER CONRACT with WWE taking part in shoot interviews with startling frequency nowadays (UK Sun, etc.), which was completely unheard of as little as a decade ago. Even WWE's DVD releases have been getting more and more shoot-like in the past few years.
Another telling example: Smackdown is being taped here in Pittsburgh tonight, and the post-air main event features Triple H and John Cena, both of whom are supposed to be INJURED! How many kids will excitedly attend the Mellon Arena tonight and leave totally disenchanted after asking their parents how HHH and Cena suddenly got better (and will certainly be shown as injured again on television in coming weeks)..? It's getting to the point that even wrestling fans are crying foul at Vince & Co. revealing TOO MUCH! As with any form of theatrical entertainment, the audience wants to buy into - to BELIEVE - the illusion, while they're watching.
You just can't care about something like a wrestling match, or someone like a wrestler, unless you first believe in what they're doing in the ring. People didn't still buy pro wrestling as "real" back in the 80s and 90s, but the WWF and other companies still tried to create an atmosphere to make you believe in the conflicts, to feel for the characters, and to care about who won and who lost. Now, they seem to have forgotten that element, they just have a bunch of short-term... stuff going on - character developments that are forgotten and rendered meaningless within weeks - and fewer and fewer people put any personal stake into the outcomes as the weeks go by. I'm genuinely surprised that PPV buyrates haven't dropped more than they have.
That, to me, is by far the biggest problem in pro wrestling in the 21st centure: nobody believes... and therefore, nobody cares.
So, yeah, I think Vince's fear of overexposure is just another one of those internet myths.
Posted By: KanyonKreist (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 02:07 PM
I propose this solution: Fans take a cue from PWI back in the day and refuse to break kayfabe anymore. No more talk of workrate, no more using supposed insider terms, none of that. Everyone treats wrestling like it's real. You can't even pretend this wouldn't be fun.
Posted By: Anon. (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 02:13 PM
I think the only person in the sheets/IWC who's opinion matters to a company which isn't running out of a flea market is Meltzer. I sincerely doubt they give two shits what Larry Czonka thinks.
Posted By: ButchReedMark (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 02:19 PM
This entire column is absolute bullshit. You've decided on your "Vince hates the internet!" argument without ever having anything other than half-truths, second-hand comments and your own worthless presumptions to base it on.
Yes, Vince/WWE will do all they can to prevent spoilers and negative press reaching the internet. And why not? This is good business sense. You talk as if its some vast conspiracy against meaningless internet journalist wannabees like yourself. Have you ever considered that the so-called "IWC darlings" you love don't get pushed because, for all their in-ring ability, they lack the mic skills and prescence to connect and get themselves over with the crowd?
NEWSFLASH TIME DIPSHIT!!!~ WWE is a publicly traded company that employs over 500 people (EXCLUDING performers) and had revenue of $526 million in 2008. Vince McMahon, as Chairman and Majority Shareholder, effectively holds complete control of the entire company. Do you HONESTLY think he has the time to wage this one-man petty vendetta against basement-dwelling internet losers like you? Do you think you even matter to him? Internet fans, as a whole, don't really spend that much on the product and it's quite apparant that Vince's targets are kids and other demographics.
The problems with the WWE product go much deeper than your made-up arguments, the real concern is the change of culture within the company itself towards a more homogenized, corporate world where everyone looks and talks the same, everything you see is scripted down to the finest detail so there is no room for improv and spontaneity, and everything is centred around over-exposure, politics and ruthless marketing, squeezing the last dollar out of everything. Of course, hacks like you lack the knowledge or insight to address these kind of issues, instead sticking to your pathetic "omg vince hates the iwc!!!" arguments like the self-important chump that you are.
It is blatantly obvious that you yourself desperately want what you've written to be true so you can attach some importance to yourself and others like you - the uninformed, pompous internet hacks, wannabees who write a few shitty articles about a generic wrestling subject and think they are suddenly journalists and wrestling industry insiders. God forbid that you face the truth that everything you write and think is worthless and nobody will ever give a fuck about you, and that all your wrestling heroes despise you and would cross the street to avoid having to look at you in real life.
Posted By: Hyperstorm (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 02:49 PM
Nice article that. For some, it won't tell them anything that they don't already know but I, for one, enjoyed it very much. Good work.
Posted By: Mark (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 03:04 PM
"Me? I just want to watch some wrestling"
thats what im sayin
Posted By: p1ne (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 03:09 PM
"Me? I just want to watch some wrestling"
thats what im sayin
Posted By: p1ne (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 03:10 PM
Good stuff.
Posted By: jeff (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 03:25 PM
"Vince, like a megalomaniac"
Vince IS a megalomaniac....no simile needed
Posted By: M:-X (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 03:26 PM
"I propose this solution: Fans take a cue from PWI back in the day and refuse to break kayfabe anymore. No more talk of workrate, no more using supposed insider terms, none of that. Everyone treats wrestling like it's real. You can't even pretend this wouldn't be fun.
Posted By: Anon. (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 02:13 PM"
Excellent idea. If you're not in the industry, don't use the terminology. You don't sound "smart" - you sound retarded!
You'd still be calling the characters "bad guys" and "good guys" if the Internet didn't show every basement-dwelling assfuck what all that neat insider lingo meant.
Posted By: IWC=Douches (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 03:42 PM
It's always been a love-hate relationship on both sides. Simple as that.
Vince needs to quit being so paranoid and the IWC needs to quit being so judgemental.
That being said, it seems like lately they've been listening to us. Morrison, Miz, MVP, Orton, and Punk are all getting extremely strong pushes. Lately I've also notcied they've thrown in very small references to us (Cena's "Vintage Michael Cole" joke and Miz's comment about the Rock last night).
All things said, sometimes I think the Internet fans overestimate theior importance. Vince will always cater to the kids and marks, because that's where the dollar signs are. Remember when Russo tried to write for "us" in WCW? Yeeeeah...
Posted By: lilwayne1 (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 04:09 PM
I used to read spoilers to see what would happen on tv, but I don't read them anymore because I want to be surprised and entertained when I watch Raw and Smackdown. I think that's part of the problem with some people in the IWC. They read spoilers and aren't surprised anymore when they see it happen on tv then they come in here a bitch. It's like being told the ending of a movie or how a book ends. The surprise and excitement is gone when you know what's going to happen. I think the more people know before a show airs, the less likely they will enjoy watching it. We can get so caught up in the moment when a wrestler is "buried" on a show, but we're too impatient about what's going to happen next week or on Sunday at the pvv when he gets his revenge and everyone pops. We don't like when Shane McMahon shows up on tv and "makes Legacy look like sissies". Just chill and wait and see what happens. Shane isn't going to go over Legacy in the long run. Chillax and watch the show. It's just wrestling. I love wrestling and have watched since 1984, but it's just wrestling. It's soap opera-theater-sports-girls in bikinis-acrobatics-pryo-powerbombs-live music. And I love it.
Posted By: Chico (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 05:50 PM
I think unpredictability is over-rated. For instance, sitcoms have been a staple of television for decades. Right now they are on a down cycle, but the truth is, if you have seen a few seasons of a sitcom, you have seen most of the plots ever used. Yet they can still get ratings.
Another thing not explored in this article is the potentially articulate nature of the IWC. Not all fans - the "you are so gay" or "you're stupid" posters. But many can articulately state what they would like to see and why it is good. They can give insight into why certain wrestlers do not get the desired WWE response when the same posters are not blinded by their own tastes.
Sure we haven't been in the business for over 50 years. But we know what we like and we have other entertainment options.
So does the public. Point to the crowds all you want. You can also point to declining ratings. Arguing about the cyclical nature of wrestling doesn't help - this has been stated for the better part of a decade. Fashions change in that time, as do the people who are teens. The overall popularity of wrestling in the states tells the story of how well wrestling has been written and marketed lately.
Posted By: Guest#8683 (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 06:15 PM
"Vince won't push anyone that the internet loves"
Matt Hardy was rehired strictly because of the net.
Posted By: Guest#1434 (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 07:24 PM
Whoops, I accidentally posted twice. I thought my first attempt got nixed by a page refresh! Turns out I had a good amount more to say, though...
Posted By: KanyonKreist (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 08:11 PM
This is a very good article, and I'm glad someone wrote about this subject.
You're right, we should probably stop hounding Vince to push the guys that we want them to push and all. But I don't think the loudest IWC members would be doing that if they weren't bored with the way things are.
Maybe it's because the Attitude Era spoiled us. Maybe we're just used to fast-paced action, unpredictability, PG-13 stuff, or whatever. As such, the IWC finds today's product rather.....I guess the word would be bland.
Regardless, yes, the IWC should get off of Vince's back, but they wouldn't be doing this in the first place if they didn't think something was wrong. They want to be able to properly enjoy what they see, rather than just lazily watch RAW or Smackdown each week and go "yawn, whatever, maybe next week they'll improve".
Still, we don't need 14-year old morons going "OMG CENAS SO FUKIN GHEY DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE" and making the rest of us look bad.
And that, kids, is why you should practice safe sex.
Posted By: ZeroVX (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 08:18 PM
All things said, sometimes I think the Internet fans overestimate theior importance. Vince will always cater to the kids and marks, because that's where the dollar signs are. Remember when Russo tried to write for "us" in WCW? Yeeeeah...
Posted By: lilwayne1 (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 04:09 PM
I agree with you to a point. The internet was less developed and all internet uses were less back then. So Russo was writing to an extremely small part of the audience, one he was overly aware of.
Now, even grandmothers have web pages. It is the trend of now and the future. So if he doesn't like it, maybe he should find a product to sell to the Amish.
God forbid that you face the truth that everything you write and think is worthless and nobody will ever give a fuck about you, and that all your wrestling heroes despise you and would cross the street to avoid having to look at you in real life.
Posted By: Hyperstorm (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 02:49 PM
You cared enough to post. Does that mean you have even less of a real life?
That said, I can't agree with all of the names listed as not being pushed for no other reason than spite against the IWC. There are some valid reasons here.
Morrison needed the seasoning in given by his work with the Miz. Many were arguing against breaking them up now. It is a time honored progression - working the bottom and middle of the card (yes, I know about his titles, gain exposure, experience and popularity in a tag team (Rockers, E&C, Hardys), break up to try for the upper-mid card.
Christian - If you are going to have him with a viable individual career, he needs serious title time before joining back up with Edge. Plus, if you want to add prestige and excitement to the ECW belt, which many don't consider a real world title belt, he is a good choice. Matt Hardy didn't do anything with that belt. Without his program with Jeff, he wouldn't be seen as a viable upper-mid carder right now by the audience at large. He has always had his IWC fans, but as stated, he wasn't over with the general fan base.
Benjamin - Needs work on mike and charisma. Plus, if I were running things, I wouldn't want a main eventer who looks like he is about to seriously injury himself and others at PPVs. Not only would it be a danger to others, it would scare away kids, parents, and draw in the media when he finally does hurt somebody. Amazing worker, terrible flops.
The article provides a good reason for why Vince wouldn't bother having a vendetta against the IWC. It is too small. Plus, whatever he does, the IWC is probably his most die-hard base. We follow and watch in spite of our objections.
Posted By: Guest#5007 (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 10:41 PM
BEST COLUMN EVER.
Without a shadow of a doubt this is the best piece of writing i have seen on the InterWeb in a long long time.
Bang on the button, not only with regard to Vince and Wrestling,
But the world, as we know it, in general.
I salute you sir.
Androids may not take over the world, but are allowing ourselves to by using the closest thing we have.
And for the most part its baaaad, mmmkay.
Excellent writing sir.
Posted By: Kaptabs (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 10:53 PM
How about we just make wrestling a bit more logical....
Ah fuck, that just sounds stupid.
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on May 06, 2009 at 12:30 AM
Does Vince need the internet?
No.
Posted By: dj (Guest) on May 06, 2009 at 09:23 AM
I think the only person in the sheets/IWC who's opinion matters to a company which isn't running out of a flea market is Meltzer. I sincerely doubt they give two shits what Larry Czonka thinks.
Posted By: ButchReedMark (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 02:19 PM
Nothing against Larry who's probably my favorite writer, but I agree with the above comment. I don't even think Vince knows who Csonka is.
Posted By: MachoManFanStill (Guest) on May 06, 2009 at 11:52 AM
Does Vince need the internet?
No.
Posted By: dj (Guest) on May 06, 2009 at 09:23 AM
perfect point. he didn't become the most successful wrestling promoter ever by listening to virgins who masturbate to jap crap wrestling. believe it or not, he is responsible for every fan who currently watches professional wrestling. there is absolutely no one who got a love for this entertainment by going to an indy show or watching a couple of nips on youtube.
Posted By: Guest#0892 (Guest) on May 06, 2009 at 11:57 AM
Vince does not plan on dying and will not!
Posted By: Steve (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 05:51 PM
"I propose this solution: Fans take a cue from PWI back in the day and refuse to break kayfabe anymore. No more talk of workrate, no more using supposed insider terms, none of that. Everyone treats wrestling like it's real. You can't even pretend this wouldn't be fun.
Posted By: Anon. (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 02:13 PM"
Excellent idea. If you're not in the industry, don't use the terminology. You don't sound "smart" - you sound retarded!
You'd still be calling the characters "bad guys" and "good guys" if the Internet didn't show every basement-dwelling assfuck what all that neat insider lingo meant.
Posted By: IWC=Douches (Guest) on May 05, 2009 at 03:42 PM
Excellent idea? Maybe if you're a brain dead dope smoking numbskull but anyone with an I.Q. that reaches triple digits would find this to be nothing more than an exercise in mind numbing self delusion. Fact: once you learn the correct terminology for something you can't "unlearn it." You either use the knowledge you gain and evolve or you ignore any knowledge you gain and stay ignorant. Former insider terms such as "heat" are words people use in writing about wrestling because it's simply more efficient to write that one word than to write "an intense reaction by the audience." If you can't figure out that when people become educated on a subject, any subject at all, and they learn words that efficiently describe what they are writing about, they'll use those words, then you're just not using your brain. As for the idea that we should just pretend wrestling is all real when we write about it, well, much like political correctness, all that would serve to do is to deny reality. No thanks. Finally, the idea that "internet fans" are some rare breed of fan that isn't relevant to WWE is completely absurd. Computers are no longer some new gadget that only a handful of science geeks own. I'd wager that the internet is rapidly replacing the newspaper as the predominant way Americans get their news. So calling someone an "internet wrestling fan" is about as relevant or useful as calling somebody a "newspaper football fan." The fact is, if somebody enjoys a sport or form of entertainment, and they are both capable of reading and have a thirst for knowledge about the things in life that interest them, then they will read about those things whether it is in the newspaper or on the internet. If you don't read about it, you're either yet another failed product of the American public school system who can't read, or you simply don't have much interest in it. So exactly who are the mental midgets who are saying that Vince Mcmahon shouldn't care about the fans of WWE that show enough interest in the product to *gasp* actually want to read about it?
Posted By: Ted (Guest) on May 08, 2009 at 05:22 AM
Does Vince need the internet?
No.
Posted By: dj (Guest) on May 06, 2009 at 09:23 AM
perfect point. he didn't become the most successful wrestling promoter ever by listening to virgins who masturbate to jap crap wrestling. believe it or not, he is responsible for every fan who currently watches professional wrestling. there is absolutely no one who got a love for this entertainment by going to an indy show or watching a couple of nips on youtube.
Posted By: Guest#0892 (Guest) on May 06, 2009 at 11:57 AM
"Believe it or not"? I'll choose "not" thank you very much. Those of us on this website who are adults know that millions of wrestling fans started watching wrestling on The TBS Superstation which started airing Georgia Championship wrestling in the late 70's in homes across the entire country which had cable TV access and grew up watching NWA wrestling. I remember being able to receive Georgia Championship Wrestling all the way up in the state of Maine, so it certainly wasn't just a wrestling show that only southerners grew up watching. How about the millions of fans who grew up watching Mid-Atlantic Wrestling run by JIm Crockett which featured legends such as Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, and Roddy Piper to name just a few? How about all the fans in the vast Dallas Metroplex that grew up watching The Von Erichs wrestle on World Class Championship Wrestling both on local TV as well as nationwide on ESPN? How about the millions of fans throughout the vast midwest region of the country who grew up watching Verne Gagne's AWA? As the facts show, not everybody got their love of wrestling by first watching a McMahon owned product. Vince McMahon is responsible for destroying far more wrestling than he created? Don't believe me? Check the facts. Were more wrestling fans attending wrestling events in the USA in the late 70's and early 80's before Vincent K. McMahon took over his father;s company and took it nationwide, or are more wrestling fans attending live events now? Were more wrestlers employed as full time wrestlers back in the 70's and early 80's or now? Were more wrestling events being held in oiur country before Vincent K. McMahon took The WWE nationwide, or now? It's not even close. Learn your history if you want to debate with the adults.
Posted By: Ole (Guest) on May 08, 2009 at 05:53 AM
"Believe it or not"? I'll choose "not" thank you very much. Those of us on this website who are adults know that millions of wrestling fans started watching wrestling on The TBS Superstation which started airing Georgia Championship wrestling in the late 70's in homes across the entire country which had cable TV access and grew up watching NWA wrestling. I remember being able to receive Georgia Championship Wrestling all the way up in the state of Maine, so it certainly wasn't just a wrestling show that only southerners grew up watching. How about the millions of fans who grew up watching Mid-Atlantic Wrestling run by JIm Crockett which featured legends such as Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, and Roddy Piper to name just a few? How about all the fans in the vast Dallas Metroplex that grew up watching The Von Erichs wrestle on World Class Championship Wrestling both on local TV as well as nationwide on ESPN? How about the millions of fans throughout the vast midwest region of the country who grew up watching Verne Gagne's AWA? As the facts show, not everybody got their love of wrestling by first watching a McMahon owned product. Vince McMahon is responsible for destroying far more wrestling than he created? Don't believe me? Check the facts. Were more wrestling fans attending wrestling events in the USA in the late 70's and early 80's before Vincent K. McMahon took over his father;s company and took it nationwide, or are more wrestling fans attending live events now? Were more wrestlers employed as full time wrestlers back in the 70's and early 80's or now? Were more wrestling events being held in oiur country before Vincent K. McMahon took The WWE nationwide, or now? It's not even close. Learn your history if you want to debate with the adults.
Posted By: Ole (Guest) on May 08, 2009 at 05:53 AM
even if god forbid you are a southerner with access to the internet and limited computer skills who just so happened to get those shows with enough aluminum foil on your tv antennas, congratulations you are in the very slim minority ( slim in numbers not in physical appearance).
it just so happens i didn't really read your post i just scrolled through it and saw the usual smart mark arguement. i copied and pasted it to let you know someone has decided to respond to you little rant when you come back and check this article to see if you touched a nerve. and by the way mc mahon in name included his father who all of your little crap territories copied as well long before the most successful promoter in history took over. so you can just go back to try sounding smart with the little nuggets of information you got from wikipedia.i'm sorry to have disturbed you.....
Posted By: Guest#0892 (Guest) (Guest) on May 08, 2009 at 08:31 AM
Copyright (c) 2011 411mania.com, LLC. All rights reserved.
Click here for our privacy policy. Please help us serve you better, fill out our survey.
Use of this site signifies your agreement to our terms of use.