411 Fact or Fiction 5.07.09: Batista vs. Randy Orton, TNA’s Four Way At Sacrifice, WWE Developmental Failure, More
Posted by Larry Csonka on 05.07.2009
Week TWO HUNDRED and TWENTY NINE features Mike Chin, Jim Grimm and discussion of Jay Lethal re-signing with TNA!
Welcome back to another week of 411 Fact or Fiction: Wrestling Edition! This week we have tow men stepping up to the challenge as 411's Mike Chin and Jim Grimm step into the 411 Arena to do battle in this week's edition of Fact or Fiction!
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Questions were sent out Monday morning.
Participants were told to expect WWE and TNA related questions.
If you would like to appear in the column, shoot me an email!
1) WWE will finally follow through with the proper execution of the Brand Extension, keeping the shows separate, and with their own identity.
Jim Grimm:FICTION: For a while there shortly after the brands were first split up, there was a distinct separation between shows. SmackDown was sports and Raw was entertainment, more or less. But 2005 came along, and a new era was ushered in by the first World Title victories for John Cena and Batista. Ever since then, roster separations have hardly been absolute, with the last year or so in particular being especially absurdly booked. Rather than looking at Raw and SmackDown as entertainment and sports respectively, these days we look at them as the A-Show and the B-Show. And we as fans look at them that way because that's how WWE looks at them. Good 'Ol JR, who is quite fond of reminding us that Raw is the "flagship" of WWE, grumbled all the way to SmackDown last year for a reason. The higher-ups within WWE still look at the blue brand as the lesser priority, and I feel like that's the way it's going to stay. If SmackDown continues to be booked as it was last week, I may be proven completely wrong. But we all know that SmackDown's been on hot streaks before, only to receive its B-Show reality check within a couple weeks in the form of a talent raid or a creative shakeup. I'd like nothing more than to see SmackDown return to its wrestling-focused glory days, but the cynicism that WWE has drilled into me over the years prevents me from seeing it as a legitimate possibility. I fully expect brand crossovers to become a regular occurrence again by the end of the summer.
Mike Chin :FICTION: WWE is moving in the right direction on this, in developing more distinct identities between the brands--Raw as the superstar show, Smackdown as the wrestler show, ECW as ECW. When push comes to shove, though, I struggle to imagine that WWE is really going to honor the brand extension any more earnestly now than it did in the past. The draft just happened, so it will hold true for a while, but before long we'll see another inter-brand feud or two, and once that happens the lines will blur. The cross-brand temptation is too great for WWE to resist for long. History will repeat itself.
1 for 1
2) Batista vs. Randy Orton is a title match you are looking forward too.
Jim Grimm :FACT: Well, I'm looking forward to the match in theory. These are two of the biggest names of our current generation and they've never had a title match on PPV. Based on that logic alone, this match needs to happen. Aside from that, you've got seven years of history between these two guys. The WWE creative team could literally turn their brains off (hard to imagine, I know) for the next couple of weeks and allow the Evolution back-story to write this feud itself. So with the fact that it hasn't happened yet in addition to the layers of history between the guys, I'd say that Orton vs. Batista is indeed a match I'm looking forward to. However, if you were to ask me if I was looking forward to the match based on Raw's recent booking, I might have a different answer. All of the reasons that I'm looking forward to this match are apparently irrelevant to WWE, who seems intent on dragging the Orton vs. McMahon Family saga through another PPV. This match should be built on Flair and HHH's protégés finally going at it for the big one, and yet the most drama we've gotten so far is whether or not Batista cares enough to save Shane McMahon from a Legacy beat down. With Shane'O supposedly out with an injury now, this could all turn around next week on Raw and become the feud I'm hoping for, but we'll just have to wait and see. So yeah, I'm looking forward to the match itself. But the next couple of weeks of build towards the match? Not so much.
Mike Chin :FICTION: In a sense, it should, because it's not a program that has been done to death, and these are two of the biggest stars around today. Despite these facts there just hasn't been the build to get me excited about this one. Upon his return, Batista was a random addition to the McMahon-Legacy feud, and now doesn't seem to have much more of a place in the program than as a random top card guy who wants a shot at the title. I'm all for simplifying storylines, but if I'm going to look forward to this match, something's got to make me look forward to it.
1 for 2
3) So far, the WWE's change to a singular developmental territory has been a failure.
Jim Grimm :FICTION: It's been about a year since Florida Championship Wrestling became the E's exclusive developmental territory. A year is not a hell of a lot of time. I can't in good conscience label the territory either a failure or a success at this point, but I will say that it's at least serving its purpose. Jack Swagger, Ted DiBiase, and Evan Bourne are just some of the products of FCW that have been called up to the E's main roster in the past year, and each has shown potential as a future star of the next generation. Swagger is a former ECW Champion and a guaranteed future WWE or World Champion. DiBiase is more than holding his own alongside Cody Rhodes and was recently involved in a frickin' WWE Title match on PPV (albeit in a six-man tag). Bourne is over like rover, not to mention a sight to behold inside the ring. Other FCW graduates like Ricky Ortiz, Tyson Kidd, and DJ Gabriel aren't exactly setting the wrestling world on fire, but each guy has shown that he's more than capable of holding his own inside the ring. And so this brings me to the people who are really to blame for any perceived "shortcomings" of FCW and its alumni: WWE's creative staff. FCW can train these guys in the ring and on the stick all they want, but if WWE doesn't give them something to work with when they're called up, well then nothing's going to happen. People might look at the stars that OVW churned out a few years back and think that FCW isn't getting the job done, but you've got to remember that it was WWE's booking that got those guys over and not OVW. OVW groomed Cena to be a goddamn robot, and then he languished in lower-card obscurity for nearly a year when he debuted as Mr. Generic Aggression. Orton was originally booked as the second coming of Rocky Maivia, which was just as face-heat-productive as when they tried it with Rock in '96. And Batista used to be a dude with a box around his neck who demanded donations from the audience. A year into any of their careers and you might've said, "No World Champions here." Moral of the story: Stars aren't done "developing" until they've been on the main stage for a while.
Mike Chin :FICTION: I don't actually have a strong opinion on this one either way, mostly because I feel it's too soon to conclusively say either way. The success of a developmental territory isn't something you can truly declare in the present, but rather need to determine in retrospect. Developmental is designed to develop the stars of the future, and so we won't know the answer to this one for quite some time.
2 for 3
4) Placing time limits on TV matches in WWE and or TNA will not only help in building drama, but will also allow for the occasional "out" by booking draws instead of so many count out and DQ finishes.
Jim Grimm :FACT: Without a doubt, this one is Fact. Over the last ten years Vince McMahon has done his damndest to take every bit of "sports" out of "sports-entertainment." But no matter how many bells and whistles are added, wrestling is wrestling. Aside from the exceptionally young audience, we fans are in on the joke already. We know that when two guys step in the ring that it's already been decided who's going to walk out the winner. But the thrill of the whole thing is the path we take to finding out who the winner's going to be. Vince McMahon may think that placing a time limit on a match insults modern fans' intelligence considering everybody knows they aren't really fighting, but the reason we pay for the damn tickets is because we like to believe that they're really fighting. I am all for WWE or TNA instituting anything whatsoever that adds to the perceived legitimacy of a completely illegitimate sport, and time limits are one of those great additions of legitimacy. If wrestling is stripped of all semblance of realism, then we're just looking at two roided up actors having awkward moments in their underwear, and that is not good TV. I was a big fan of TNA's visible time limit during their run on Fox Sports Net, where the time appeared on screen for the entire duration of the match. It gave TNA a unique angle on presentation and made a wrestling match look a little more like an authentic sporting competition. I'm not asking for a return to full kayfabe, but wrestling still needs those little aspects to maintain at least some of the illusion.
Mike Chin :FACT: Sure, time limit draws are a cop out, but they could be a welcome move away from the excessive DQ endings of today's product. In addition, when guys have to work toward a time limit, it means the match will go for some extended period of time--generally, at least 10 minutes. That's enough action to give fans the feeling they have, legitimately seen a match, as opposed to the abrupt non-finished that frequent WWE and TNA programming now. While there's certainly the potential for time limits to get over used (I'm recalling Regal's TV title reigns in WCW...) they would be a breath of fresh air at this moment.
3 for 4
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5) Tag team wrestling is dead and will never come back to importance in North America.
Mike Chin :FICTION: Sure, there's no question that tag team wrestling is under-utilized and under-appreciated in the modern product. It is still a valuable vehicle for building stars, though, and for giving guys constructive things to do. Just look at what it did to revitalize Carlito's WWE career. I don't expect tag team wrestling to regain the standing it had in the eighties, or even the nineties any time soon, but it's too pessimistic to call it dead at this time.
Jim Grimm :FICTION: Never say never in pro wrestling. I won't deny that tag team wrestling is less than important in both WWE and TNA, but it's only a matter of time before the next big boom occurs. Despite what Vince McMahon may currently believe, tag teams can and will sell if marketed properly. Just a couple of years ago the Hardy Boyz were making serious bank for WWE during their reunion tour. And although it may not have been a time of huge financial success, the era of the SmackDown Six saw the tag team division become the most exciting thing going in WWE for a short period. The only problem with tag team wrestling in the E these days is that they seem unable to commit to more than one team at a time. They pushed Cade & Murdoch, London & Kendrick, and Miz & Morrison to the tag team moon, but they never pushed more than one of them at a time. If WWE had been able to properly book some exciting interaction between all of the great teams they've ignored, we might have experienced another rush reminiscent of the TLC days. The talent and fan interest are there; it's just a matter of WWE picking up on it and putting in the effort. I've got to believe at some point the value of the tag team will be remembered, and we will get awesome tag team wrestling once again.
4 for 5
6) Jay Lethal made the right call in signing a new contract with TNA.
Mike Chin :FACT: I hate to say that anyone is making the right call when they sign with TNA, because I feel the product has been desperately mismanaged for so long. With that said, there is no better place for Jay Lethal at this moment. Lethal is one of the exceptionally rare stars to have legitimately enjoyed character development and career advancement as a part of TNA. I have little doubt Lethal would get lost in the WWE shuffle, and if he's not going to wrestle there, TNA is the highest profile place for him to ply his trade, and so the right place for him to be.
Jim Grimm :FICTION: From what I read, Lethal signed a "multi-year" deal with TNA. This means that regardless of however far TNA sinks into its hole of miserable booking and presentation, Jay's going to be along for the ride. And while he's on that ride, he will likely be continually passed over for main event spots in favor of keeping him confined to a comedy act, which, however funny it may be, prevents him from ever being a legitimate star. Lethal is an amazing wrestler and deserves to be treated as such. He would fit right in at WWE, where more and more attention is being given to the smaller guys. Evan Bourne has hardly said a word and yet he gets one of the biggest pops of the night whenever he comes out. I've got to believe that a WWE audience would go apeshit over some of Lethal's offense. The dude has serious talent; talent that is never going to be fully appreciated by TNA. Rather than stick around TNA and wait for the day that he can take off his sunglasses and use his own voice, Jay Lethal would've been better suited seeking his fortunes in the Land of the E.
4 for 6
7) TNA is making a mistake booking a four-way title match one month before the traditional King of the Mountain Match.
Mike Chin :FICTION: If we were talking about WWE in a similar situation--say, booking a battle royal for Armageddon right before the Royal Rumble, or a 10-man tag at Cyber Sunday before Survivor Series--I'd give his a hearty fact. TNA is quite different, though, in that gimmick matches define the product, and if they're not going to use a ladder for the multi-man match before King of the Mountain, that's different enough for them. (For those who weren't sure, yes, this is a backhanded indictment of the TNA product.)
Jim Grimm :FICTION: The mistake was putting the belt on Mick Foley. But TNA is taking the proper action in covering their mistake by booking this four-way. As his recent outing with the Stinger proved, Mick is simply no longer in any condition to be a company headliner. I won't dispute the Mickster's skills on the mic because there's no doubt that he's still got it. But when it comes to the action inside the ring, Foley's time has come and gone. If TNA is deadset on keeping the belt on him, the only way to offer fans a decent Sacrifice main event is to try and cover up the fact that their World Champion is a fat old dude in his sweatpants. And they'll do that by throwing three other guys in the ring with him. Of course, this may affect the significance of King of the Mountain (assuming it actually has significance, which is debatable), but while we're in the Age of Foley, consecutive multi-man title matches are the best way to go. The fact that we're even having this fourway match seems a dead giveaway to me that Foley's going to retain, so that his inadequacy can be masked yet again in KOTM. Having admitted that the fourway leads to predictable booking and damages one of TNA's specialty matches, I almost want to change my answer to Fact. But in the midst of it all, the TNA World Heavyweight Title is the most important factor, and the fourway protects the belt more than it hurts KOTM. So I stand with Fiction.
5 for 7
8) Roxxi was only released because TNA felt they had to punish someone, and with Rhaka Khan doing the freaky deaky with Kurt Angle, her job was safe.
Mike Chin:FICTION: "Only" is the key word on this one, as I don't think that any of the above statements are really false. In the end, though, TNA management recognized that Roxxi was not an integral part of their show at this time. She was, at one point, one of the top face Knockouts, but it's a tough thing to maintain a performer's status at the uppercard level without ever giving her the strap. Roxxi was punished, and Rhaka, likely, was redeemed for her connection to Angle. Regardless, TNA could comfortably afford to let Roxxi loose because she just didn't matter that much to them anymore anyway.
Jim Grimm :FACT: It's hard for me to confidently say Fact or Fiction, considering the stories that are floating around about the circumstances are pretty vague. All I've seen is that both Roxxi and Khan were serving suspensions for a backstage confrontation that "became physical." Roxxi might've curb-stomped Khan for all I know. But from what's come out, it appears that Roxxi went to Khan over issues of stiffness and there was a, uh, scuffle. It's also come out that Khan has had issues with some of the other Knockouts. And it's also come out that Kurt Angle likes women that tower over him. Based on all of that, it would appear that a reckless and disagreeable performer is coasting on her stroke (DOUBLE ENTENDRE ALERT) while another performer is suffering for addressing concerns about the safety of herself and her co-workers. Roxxi was far from the centerpiece of the Knockouts division, so I can't really say that her termination was a huge financial loss, but her firing still makes TNA look all kinds of dickhead.
5 for 8
Come on back next week for more of 411 Fact or Fiction: Wrestling Edition!
1) Fiction - The brand split will hold until at least Summerslam but at the very least guys will flow to/from ECW. I've never seen a full year where the brands were totally adhered to so there's no reason to think it'll finally happen this year.
2) Fiction - I don't anticipate any Batista title match. Besides, this match is just going to end with Hunter interference. Oh goodie.
3) Fiction - Swagger? Good. DiBiase? Good. Bourne? Good. Now I'm just waiting for Sheamus.
4) Fact - Anything that gets rids of all the DQ endings is okay in my book.
5) Fiction - But it's dead as far as the WWE in concerned for a LONG time. At least dropping one set of tag titles is a step forward. Until Vince dies and the company is taken over by a McMahon who cares, tag wrestling is dead. But I'd never say something like tag wrestling is gone as an art forever.
6) Fiction - The Black Machismo character was great but it's so tired now. He'll just be lost in the shuffle. At least if he leaves TNA the WWE might pick him up. If you're going to be lose in the shuffle at least earn as much money as possible.
7) Fact - Foley can't work but look who he's in the ring with. Jarret is boring. Sting doesn't "still got it" despite what the TNA marks think. Angle on his own could have carried Foley to a decent match. King of the Mountain is stupid as it is. I was hoping they could at least go one month without a cluster main event.
8)Fact - Both girls fought. So either both girls get fired or both girls get a slap on the wrist. Even if one started it you can't punish only one of them and not look like it's complete favortism. Roxxi shaved her head for the company. At the very least that should earn her only a warning the first time around. TNA absolutely looks like a bunch of D-bags for this decision.
Posted By: Ron Mexico (Guest) on May 06, 2009 at 11:50 PM
"I won't deny that tag team wrestling is less than important in both WWE and TNA,"
Wow are you an idiot or what? WWE sucks wit their tag teams or more like one tag team but TNA are the ones with the better and more tag teams. Beer Money, Team 3D, MCMG, LAX, British Invasion, Suicide & Red, Jethro & Young, and even Lethal Consequences.All guys that are involved in TNA and get an appropriate air time Please think before you post again you idiot.
Posted By: Really? (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 12:23 AM
I have to agree with Really?
SMH at the fact that you honestly wrote that TNA doesn't care about tag team wrestling. They have a total of 3 tag team titles on their television program, an open invitational tournament that is getting guys involved in TNA that haven't been there in a while. The Team 3D Beer Money match was one of the main selling points of LockDown and got the best build. And TNA doesn't care about tag teams???
Posted By: bighustle (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 12:40 AM
" Despite what Vince McMahon may currently believe, tag teams can and will sell if marketed properly. Just a couple of years ago the Hardy Boyz were making serious bank for WWE during their reunion tour. And although it may not have been a time of huge financial success, the era of the SmackDown Six saw the tag team division become the most exciting thing going in WWE for a short period."
Ok smart guy, you think you know more than the man who made your arrogant little ass love wrestling to begin with? That's the problem with fans today, they like to think they are smarted than the people who actually produce the product the fans are buying. Small satements like that go to show just how much unwarranted arrogance exist in the so called IWC. What a fucking joke. Armchair bookers... sigh. I'd be willing to be you couldn't run a wrestling promotion for a month without it losing money.
Posted By: Guest#0337 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 12:50 AM
Cena had the Prototype name in OVW but he didn't do the robot gimmick there, only in UPW when he started, his being totally vanilla when starting was the fault of creative. Bourne, DiBiase and Rhodes shouldn't really count since Bourne has been around for years before going to FCW and Rhodes and DiBiase aren't exactly FCW made either, that's like saying CM Punk is a product of OVW as well.
Posted By: PHOENIXZERO (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 01:17 AM
Ok smart guy, you think you know more than the man who made your arrogant little ass love wrestling to begin with? That's the problem with fans today, they like to think they are smarted than the people who actually produce the product the fans are buying. Small satements like that go to show just how much unwarranted arrogance exist in the so called IWC. What a fucking joke. Armchair bookers... sigh. I'd be willing to be you couldn't run a wrestling promotion for a month without it losing money.
Posted By: Guest#0337 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 12:50 AM
You'll have to excuse Mr. Guest#0337. He's run out of maxipads and is having to use a sock.
Posted By: Crippen (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 01:19 AM
I'm sure others will have probably pointed this out, but Roxxi was let go after she was suspended and THEN asked for her release.
Posted By: Devin (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 01:27 AM
Ok smart guy, you think you know more than the man who made your arrogant little ass love wrestling to begin with? That's the problem with fans today, they like to think they are smarted than the people who actually produce the product the fans are buying. Small satements like that go to show just how much unwarranted arrogance exist in the so called IWC. What a fucking joke. Armchair bookers... sigh. I'd be willing to be you couldn't run a wrestling promotion for a month without it losing money.
Posted By: Guest#0337 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 12:50 AM
1) You spelled some words wrong.
2) Tag Team Title Unification Match was moved to the dark match slot at WM25.
I think that pretty much says it all right there.
Posted By: SpankyMobster (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 01:36 AM
Didn't Roxxi ask for her release?
Posted By: Guest#3358 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 01:46 AM
Damn, Guest#0337, you must have hit a nerve.
Posted By: Tugman (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 01:57 AM
"Jay Lethal would've been better suited seeking his fortunes in the Land of the E."
That's BS and you know it. WWE would bury Lethal just like they're doing with the rest of the small guys.
Posted By: Guest#2631 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 02:18 AM
" It's been about a year since Florida Championship Wrestling became the E's exclusive developmental territory. A year is not a hell of a lot of time. I can't in good conscience label the territory either a failure or a success at this point, but I will say that it's at least serving its purpose. Jack Swagger, Ted DiBiase, and Evan Bourne are just some of the products of FCW that have been called up to the E's main roster in the past year, and each has shown potential as a future star of the next generation. Swagger is a former ECW Champion and a guaranteed future WWE or World Champion. DiBiase is more than holding his own alongside Cody Rhodes and was recently involved in a frickin' WWE Title match on PPV (albeit in a six-man tag). Bourne is over like rover, not to mention a sight to behold inside the ring. Other FCW graduates like Ricky Ortiz, Tyson Kidd, and DJ Gabriel aren't exactly setting the wrestling world on fire, but each guy has shown that he's more than capable of holding his own inside the ring. And so this brings me to the people who are really to blame for any perceived "shortcomings" of FCW and its alumni: WWE's creative staff. FCW can train these guys in the ring and on the stick all they want, but if WWE doesn't give them something to work with when they're called up, well then nothing's going to happen. People might look at the stars that OVW churned out a few years back and think that FCW isn't getting the job done, but you've got to remember that it was WWE's booking that got those guys over and not OVW. OVW groomed Cena to be a goddamn robot, and then he languished in lower-card obscurity for nearly a year when he debuted as Mr. Generic Aggression. Orton was originally booked as the second coming of Rocky Maivia, which was just as face-heat-productive as when they tried it with Rock in '96. And Batista used to be a dude with a box around his neck who demanded donations from the audience. A year into any of their careers and you might've said, "No World Champions here." Moral of the story: Stars aren't done "developing" until they've been on the main stage for a while."
Dibiase and Bourne were working the indy circuit for a few years before hitting FCW. They shouldn't really count towards it being a success. Swagger worked in both DSW and OVW before FCW, speficially being tutored by freaking Dr. Death which is why he's borrowed some of Williams' spots. Tyson Kidd is a product of the Hart family Dungeon and has also worked all over the world before coming to the E.
Pretty much none of the talent that's gone through FCW can be considered "FCW" talent, as most had already developed before going there. You won't be able to judge it's success until we start seeing the guys that worked exclusively there.
Posted By: Guest#9005 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 02:35 AM
Urrgghh check out the pic of Batista. Dude has a hump the size of Hornswaggle on his upper back. Roidtista indeed!
Posted By: DVR (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 03:30 AM
Quote:
Ok smart guy, you think you know more than the man who made your arrogant little ass love wrestling to begin with? That's the problem with fans today, they like to think they are smarted than the people who actually produce the product the fans are buying. Small satements like that go to show just how much unwarranted arrogance exist in the so called IWC. What a fucking joke. Armchair bookers... sigh. I'd be willing to be you couldn't run a wrestling promotion for a month without it losing money.
Vince makes a lot of money, but that doesn't mean he is flawless. Plus, the IWC knows what they like and voice it.
By winning the Monday Night Wars, the WWE has significant advantages that make it hard to lose money. Their deals with the networks are structured well. They have no competitor of roughly equal stature. They dominate air time.
Since the days of Hogan - and what a lucky signing that was - the casual fan thinks of the WWF/WWE when they think pro wrestling. Brand recognition is a serious asset in the marketing world. Even in their darkest days of the '90s, the legacy of Hogan and the first Wrestlemanias gave the WWF that advantage. So when the casual fan - which is the majority - looks for wrestling, they automatically think of the WWE. Their enjoyment of something else they run across will be measured against how well they think they would have enjoyed the WWE.
Good prodution and a slick look are important advantages too. They might not actually make a show better, but they sure change the way it is perceived.
Nostalgia and habit are huge factors. Many follow and watch the current product, even as they bitch. They might truly dislike the shows, but at least it is wrestling in a company they grew up watching.
These factors make it difficult for all but the worst booking to lose money. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would take some effort.
Wrestling as a straight up business doesn't look like the most complex business proposition. At least one with established success. The difficulty looks to be the people. There is a long history of sketchy types running things - IWC darling Heyman being one - and wrestlers that don't have their heads on straight. Really, wrestlers as a group seem to be down there with strippers and porn stars as to reliability, maturity, level-headedness, and general lack of professionalism.
Posted By: Guest#6429 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 03:56 AM
Tell you the truth, I'd have no problem if kayfabe outside of the shows dies entirely. But it still has a place, and that's in the arena and on TV. So I'm in favor of any details that add to the illusion of a genuine contest, like the ref not always being in position for a count, the ref occasionally reaching a five count for a DQ in the corner like on Monday, and an *accurate* time limit (as in, no time-limit-draws at 9:42, so the timekeeper has to watch for the actual time and keep the ref up to date). And probably killing the chin lock for good, but that's just my opinion, because seriously, anyone who can do that can throw some form of sleeper on and end the match. For some reason, that's the move that takes me out of most matches.
Posted By: MadmanJack (Registered) on May 07, 2009 at 04:03 AM
1. Fiction - This one is tricky, but I never really gave Vince credit for letting things play out, so I say no.
2. Fiction - Solid fiction. Randy Orton is a good worker, but his current gimmick is boring as hell. Batista has shown competence in the past but is hardly worth a serious title run anymore.
3. Fact - Call me negative today, but of the names mentioned, Swagger is easily the biggest developmental success. Dibiase is not a bad wrestler, but is about as bland as you get. Bourne was already tearing up the ROH/international scene for years, so it's hard to say he was a "developmental success".
4. Fact - ROH has done well with this, as well as organizations in the past. If it is to be, let it be.
5. Fiction - Fiction, fiction, fiction. ROH has had a tag scene for years that is at least as important as it's word title scene. Tag matches done well are often more exciting to watch and can help you shuffle up mid card clutter. And with TNA and WWE coming out with best tag matches DVD's, its obvious there is some recognition there is money to be made there.
Fact - His style and personality works better in TNA, and it's not like he's AJ Styles, so the E isn't going to be dumping money on his front lawn.
Fiction - TNA's mistake was putting the belt on Foley in the first place, so anything else after this is fuel on the crap fire until that's remedied. So more of a doesn't matter than fiction.
Fact - There is no way something aint up here, as any reason to fire Rhaka Khan should have been snatched up. It's not like Roxxi was there next Gail Kim, but seriously?
Posted By: Denton56 (Registered) on May 07, 2009 at 04:14 AM
"Other FCW graduates like Ricky Ortiz, Tyson Kidd, and DJ Gabriel aren't exactly setting the wrestling world on fire, but each guy has shown that he's more than capable of holding his own inside the ring"
Ricky Ortiz has proved nothing.
Posted By: Cleavy (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 05:33 AM
I am starting a campaign everyone : Please dont watch anymore TNA till they bring back Roxxi and Petey Williams. They worked hard and their treatment has been unfair. Voice your outrage by emailing info@tnawrestling.com...Bring back Roxxi and Petey Williams and any young talent they have got rid of in favour of really really old men. Spread the word...spread the word. Protect the future.
Posted By: GL to the D (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 06:42 AM
"5) Tag team wrestling is dead and will never come back to importance in North America."
FICTION: tag teams weren't particularly hot at the end of 1999. along came the Hardys, Dudleyz and E&C and BOOOOOM!
so it obviously takes just very few (three? maybe two would even be enough) teams that are really over to jumpstart a new tag team era.
Posted By: guy incognito (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 09:14 AM
Regarding time limits, Tully Blanchard was very well aware of the 10 minute time limit back in the day and used it to his advantage by slipping out of the ring over and over and doing anything to stall.
It brought crazy heat on him and made the fans begging to see him lose.
Great stuff.
Posted By: David (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 09:45 AM
Why would anyone look forward to a match between Batista and Orton? The match will likely suck and blow. Tag team wrestling is alive and well in TNA but as dead as can be in the WWE(and sadly I don't see that changing.
Posted By: graves9 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 09:48 AM
Jim Grimm : FICTION: Never say never in pro wrestling. I won't deny that tag team wrestling is less than important in both WWE and TNA Clearly you don't watch TNA. Hey they do a lot of things wrong but they booking of the tag teams is one of the few things they do right. Btw while Foley can't work anymore he also isn't fat anymore he has probably lost 30 pounds. So at least there's that.
Posted By: graves9 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 10:02 AM
DOUBLE ENTENDRE FTW!
Posted By: Guest#3198 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 10:57 AM
Can y'all choose ONE person who is not a TNA-hater/WWE-mark just ONCE to do this column?? SHEESH. This whole freakin site is WWE biased. I think it's time for me to find a new site for my wrestling news...
Posted By: Guest#2031 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 11:06 AM
Upon his return, Batista was a random addition to the McMahon-Legacy feud, and now doesn't seem to have much more of a place in the program than as a random top card guy who wants a shot at the title.
Glad to see you have been paying attention. Could it be b/c
A. According to storyline the reason Batista missed time due to injury form the concussion kick that RKO gave him
-or-
B. That Orton is still holding a grudge against HHH for kicking him out of Evolution, and who gave Orton the Electric Chair that dropped him out of Evolution? Oh yeah, Batista.
Seems to make perfect sense to me
Posted By: C.Drama (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 11:56 AM
santina going to become the next tits n ass knockout champ you heard it here first
Posted By: worm lover (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 01:25 PM
1 - Fact, I think that the WWE will keep the brand extension properly executed til Survivor Series at least, it is usually at survivor series at the brand vs. brand match, December usually has the tribute to the troops which is tri-branded and from the Royal Rumble to WrestleMania is of course a mix of guys from every brand, but until then, I expect them to keep the brands appropriately separated.
4 - It would add another dimension to matches, think about a heel champion doing what ever they can to stall for time, and just as the babyface gets the pin and the possible title win, the bell rings and the time limit has expired. It would build for PPV matches where there are no time limits
5 - TNA has three sets of Tag Titles, and they are bringing in new guys for teams so their division is plentiful. The WWE tag division is weak (at one point on April 15th there was only one active team in the WWE, Priceless), but it will survive and eventually regain importance in the WWE. Priceless, Cryme Tyme, and the Colons are currently active, Mike Knox and Charlie Haas were working together in Europe and There is always the potential for DH and Tyson to team up if DH ever makes it back up.
6 - Lethal, despite his gimmick, has gotten over and won titles. He is in his early twenties and him staying with TNA, is great for them. If he would go to the WWE he would likely get sent down to developmental, then come up, get mildly pushed then tossed to the wayside when the WWE finds another toy to play with for a little while.
7 - I like the idea, better chance for Foley to lose the title. As for his opponents, only one of the three interests me as a potential champion but I am not sure how long he will remain active in the company (I could be talking about any of the three of them, but I am referring to Jeff Jarrett)
I
8- I am under the assumption that Roxxi asked for her release. So she was not released because TNA felt the need to punish somebody, she was released because she didn’t want to be there because she was suspended (along with Rhaka) for a backstage altercation because Rhaka allegedly stiffed her and others. Regardless of her relations with Kurt (that’s an image, ain’t it?), Rhaka should have been the one to be released, if they needed to release somebody because the face side of the KO’s division is barren.
Posted By: Jeremy from Palmdale (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 01:28 PM
rumor has it roxxi asked for her release.i dont know that thats been confirmed. too much evidence of shenanigans for me to totally buy that.
Posted By: fred (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 02:39 PM
Time limit draw can definantly work but it can't be a regular thing. The scenario has to go be two guys or tag teams beat each other but neither man or team will quit and they fight until time limits over. then at the PPV they determine who is the winner, and with title matches there should be no time limit
Posted By: Guest#0281 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 02:49 PM
Rhaka Angle!!!... what a name.. Oh! i see it now AJ Styles stealing her away from kurt, hmmmmmm! maybe not AJ has class.. thats why he fucked karen. dont let scotty find out your banging his freak, he might get pissy and one of his muscle implants in his arm explodes and fluid flys every were and gets your hair wet.. oh 4got no hair! lol!
Posted By: ZZ Top Crotch? (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 03:20 PM
Can y'all choose ONE person who is not a TNA-hater/WWE-mark just ONCE to do this column?? SHEESH. This whole freakin site is WWE biased. I think it's time for me to find a new site for my wrestling news...
Posted By: Guest#2031 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 11:06 AM
Really? Check yourself foooool!
WWE biased? That's why they have three damn recaps of a ROH weekly program. That's half of the show's viewership. And read WOTW everyone once and a while and see the few idiots that think wrestling in a HS gym and winning a belt with 0 history is more important than the WWE Title.
Posted By: Guest#5588 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 03:22 PM
2) FICTION!!! I could not care less about that match unless HHH & Kane were also involved, because I can't stand to watch any of those 4. I really hope that is the main event so I can go home early.
Posted By: matrix1004 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 05:07 PM
If the WWE really wanted to make the brands stand out they should have different rules for each show. Keep standard rules on Raw, maybe give some Japaneese rules to Smackdown (20 count) and make ECW falls count anywhere.
Posted By: Karatgold24 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 05:18 PM
"Fact or Fiction"...TNA???
"Mike Chin
FACT: I hate to say that anyone is making the right call when they sign with TNA, because I feel the product has been desperately mismanaged for so long..."
My take on this...
Perhaps TNA has in fact been mismanaged, perhaps not.
Let's look at their competition, the WWE,. Which has been for many YEARS now, "same show, different day."
I've been watching Rasslin' for about 35 years and have formed some opinions during that time...
I have watched Monday Night Raw since it began. I also watched WCW Nitro, Saturday Night's Main Event, All Star Wrestling, (AWA) and ECW in it's "Hey"Day...
(And many others...)
TNA is the ONLY current Rasslin' league that offers anything that even remotely resembles "ORIGINAL"...
Posted By: Brian (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 06:12 PM
I totally agree with Jim Grimm about Jay Lethal. He's a really good wrestler and in my opinion hasn't really shown what he can do in TNA. In Ring of Honor, when he was part of Special K, Jay Lethal's (Hydro) style was more of a don't hold back wrestling style while in TNA, he appears to be holding back a bit. Reminds me of the WWE style where they hold back of what some of their wrestlers can really do (Evan Bourne, Monty Brown, Wildcat Chris Harris for example). Jay Lethal did make the right choice by signing a multi year deal with TNA because he would get lost in the shuffle in WWE if he were to jump ship in the future. Job security.
Posted By: Joey (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 09:42 PM
I disagree completely with the responses to #4.
FICTION. I hate time limits in a fight, real, fixed, imaginary, pillow fight, whatever. What the hell is the purpose of a time limit? Let them fight until one man wins or both fall over and can't compete any longer. I would be much less opposed to seeing the referee declare the match a double count-out due to neither man being able to answer the count of 10 than to seeing the match end because 10/20/30 minutes has passed. It's just stupid.
Posted By: DXSSI (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 10:08 PM
"You'll have to excuse Mr. Guest#0337. He's run out of maxipads and is having to use a sock."
Nope, actually I wrote those comments to solicit that type of response, just to prove that all of you so called "smarks" are immature little geeks. As for misspelling words, I know. I actually typed that rather quickly, as I'm actually at work, unlike most of you who are sitting in your rooms masturbating to divas (who laugh at losers like you and wouldn't touch your fat, ugly pizza eating asses) Even more funny when guys like you "analyze" our business, never having worked a day in a place that doesn't have the name "Burger King" on the door. But be my guest, sit on your lazy asses and "book" away. We're laughing, really. And to see the joke all you'd have to do is look into the mirror. So why not grow the fuck up, turn off the computer, turn off the television and/or drown yourself in the bathtub. Cause no one cares about you either way.
Posted By: Guest#5542 (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 10:39 PM
Jim Grimm : FICTION: Never say never in pro wrestling. I won't deny that tag team wrestling is less than important in both WWE and TNA Clearly you don't watch TNA. Hey they do a lot of things wrong but they booking of the tag teams is one of the few things they do right. Btw while Foley can't work anymore he also isn't fat anymore he has probably lost 30 pounds. So at least there's that.
Amen to that. Foley still cuts more interesting promos than HHH, Orton, and Boretista combined!
Much like the rest of the 411 staff, they don't watch TNA because of the fear they will get called out by the WWE-loving fanbase on this site. Up and coming teams like the British Invasion and the excellent build they had towards last month's Lockdown they would've realized that tag team wrestling does exist.
Csonka, let me or someone who actually watches TNA/ROH appear on FoF. At least we could give an objective opinion about it unlike the rest of the morons you put on here.
Posted By: Orlando (Guest) on May 07, 2009 at 11:31 PM
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