Forgotten Favorites 06.04.09: SmackDown 2003 - Brock Lesnar vs. Rey Mysterio

Posted by Jim Grimm on 06.04.2009

Long before he entered the octagon, Brock Lesnar had become obsessed with making opponents tap out. With a future shot at the WWE Title on the line, could Rey Mysterio upset the WWE Champion?

Welcome back, wrestling fans. It's time once again to hop into the DeLorean and relive some history that hasn't quite gotten its due.

If you're new, then what the hell, man? I've been here at 411 for some time now, and you should know who I am by now. But if not:

The evil master of wrestling history, who rules from his titanic towers of evil, takes great joy in robbing his followers of cherished memories. He has even gone so far as to wave his billion-dollar wand on more than one occasion in an attempt to completely erase particular pockets of time. Well, we, the people, have refused to stand for such injustices, and as a result, I have been called upon to right the wrongs of time.

I am continuing to abuse SmackDown's legendary '02-'03 run for all its worth. This week we're going back to the end of 2003 for a televised match that hasn't gotten much play in the last few years. You may remember it ... you may not. All I know is that it definitely hasn't gotten the attention it deserves.

So ...
who wants great wrestling?


SmackDown - December 11, 2003
Brock Lesnar vs. Rey Mysterio

HOW IT WENT DOWN

Brock Lesnar was angry. And you wouldn't like him when he's angry.

On November 16, 2003, the seventeenth annual Survivor Series emanated from the American Airlines Center in Dallas, Texas. On that night, Goldberg successfully defended his World Heavyweight Championship against Evolution's Triple H, while Eric Bischoff's five-man Survivor Series Team defeated five representatives for Stone Cold Steve Austin, (supposedly) forcing the Rattlesnake into his official retirement. But the night was kicked off by the blue brand's traditional Survivor Series match, where old rivalries mixed and new ones were just beginning.

Having exchanged the WWE Title more than once over the course of the year, Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle were still at each other's throats on the night of Survivor Series, each captaining a team against the other. In the end, Angle, Chris Benoit, John Cena, Bradshaw, and Hardcore Holly were able to earn the victory over Lesnar, Big Show, A-Train, Matt Mogan, and Nathan Jones (G'DAY!). Cena and Benoit were the sole survivors, last eliminating Big Show, but it was Lesnar's elimination that would have the biggest impact on the post-Survivor Series SmackDown world. You see, Lesnar wasn't just eliminated from the match; he tapped out for his elimination. And if the crowd had chanted "You Tapped Out!" a lot after Lesnar's submission to Angle at SummerSlam, they lost their goddamn minds once Benoit forced him to quit.

On the SmackDown that followed Survivor Series, the chants were in full effect. And Lesnar ... well, he didn't take too kindly to it. Still steaming from his Survivor Series elimination, Lesnar jumped Benoit following another Crossface-forced submission, this time from Nathan Jones (G'DAY!). Lesnar was all about beating the holy hell out of the Crippler ... that is, until one HARDCORE HOLLY entered the picture. And you may wonder what a career Hardcore Champion could really do to one of the most dominant WWE Champions of all time, but you'd be surprised what a year on the shelf can do for a man (along with an eternity of loyal service to Vince McMahon). But as a result of Big Bad Bob's interference, he found himself on the receiving end of a Paul Heyman-issued suspension. For the time being, at least.

The following week was the long-gone SmackDown Thanksgiving special, where the night is themed with all sorts of lame/offensive/lame jokes about Pilgrims and Native Americans. Since Brock Lesnar came out to inform the world that he was the greatest WWE Champion of all time, and that he could stand up against any opposition, SmackDown GM Paul Heyman put together a 20-Man Battle Royal wherein the winner would receive a WWE Title shot later that night. And since John Cena and Chris Benoit were the biggest thorns in Heyman's side, they would have to win qualifying matches in order to make it into the Battle Royal.

And so after Benoit and Cena easily disposed of Matt Morgan and A-Train respectively, they just-as-easily tore through all of the competition in the Battle Royal. But in the end, both men ended up spilling out to the floor at the same time, causing a hell of a lot of confusion. When Heyman and Lesnar appeared on the scene, a decision was reached to hold a tie-breaking matchup the following week. And then once that formality was out of the way, Lesnar F-5ed the bejesus out of Cena and Benoit.

One week later the number one contender's match was held, and it was Chris Benoit who came out victorious, forcing Cena into submission with the Crossface. Having finally earned a shot at the strap, Benoit stepped into the ring later that night with Brock Lesnar for the WWE Championship. The two engaged in what can best be described as AWESOME. If I was still able to find joy in watching a Chris Benoit match, I would be covering this particular WWE Title match this week, but as it turns out, Benoit is a dick.

Anyway ... Benoit and Brock beat the hell out of each other for the right to be called the best. Obsessed with making someone tap out, Lesnar was able to trap Benoit in a previously-unseen submission hold. And it was this deadly Brock Lock that forced the Crippler into unconsciousness, causing the match to be awarded to the WWE Champion. After the match, the insanely insane Lesnar locked Benoit in his very own Crossface, maniacally laughing as he forced a lifeless Benoit's hand to slap the canvas, forcing him to "tap out."

Believing that he'd finally made good on his "tap-out" revenge, Lesnar was supremely confident on the following week's SmackDown broadcast. However, the celebration was cut short by the emergence of that night's hometown boy, Rey Mysterio. In front of a roaring San Diego crowd, Mysterio challenged Lesnar to a match later that night, which the WWE Champion was more than willing to accept. Lesnar was so confident, in fact, that he guaranteed a WWE Title match the following week for Mysterio if he was able to score the victory over the champ.

And so it came time for the main event. Brock Lesnar, on a kick of tap-out madness, stepped into the ring for a non-title contest with the E's ultimate underdog, Rey Mysterio. Would Lesnar make good on his promise of another tap-out? Or would Rey 619 his way into a WWE Title match?

Brock Lesnar vs. Rey Mysterio - Dec. 11 2003 SmackdownUploaded by Kane_DX. -

WHY IT SHOULD BE REMEMBERED

Unfortunately, over the course of Brock Lesnar's two years on the main WWE roster, the former Next Big Thing never once had a significant encounter with Rey Mysterio. Of course, as fellow SmackDown Superstars, Brock and Rey crossed paths from time to time, engaging in both face-heel and face-face singles bouts. When Mysterio fought back from "injury" to seek revenge against Big Show, it was a babyface Brock Lesnar who stood beside the multi-time Cruiserweight Champion to help even nature's unfair odds. But even with all that interaction, two of the modern era's biggest draws never stepped into the ring one on one at a PPV event. Any fans who've come around to a post-WMXX WWE are surely going to be curious about what Brock was all about during his WWE career, especially considering Lesnar's recent rise to MMA dominance. A younger Rey Mysterio mark who takes an interest in Lesnar's career is likely going to want to seek out battles between the F-5 and 619 specialists, and said (likely preteen) mark may have his or her hopes crushed when they review the PPV cards that spanned Lesnar's '02-'04 career. But all hope is not lost! Young fans, I give you this lost gem of a match between Brock and Rey as proof of the chemistry between the two competitors, showing the awesomeness they could've accomplished if given a grander stage to perform on.

This particular SmackDown match is much like the other limited interaction that took place between Brock and Rey. They didn't light SmackDown on fire or change the wrestling landscape, but the potential for something amazing was there. Each guy was completely unlike anybody else they had ever faced. Given Rey's size and Brock's inhuman strength, manhandling was possible on a whole different level. In addition to that is the fact that Brock was completely unlike any other "big man" that Rey had ever stepped in the ring with.

Over the course of his career, Mysterio has wrestled countless "big man vs. very little man" matches, most of which all had the same basic structure. But unlike the other towering beasts or jacked monsters that Rey had tangled with, Brock Lesnar was in a category unto himself. He was (and still is) capable of things that men his size (normally) cannot do. Instead of being the standard power-based, Spinebuster-crazy wrecking machine that you might assume of him at first glance, Brock was the total package. He had the raw power of The Big Show, the technical wizardy of Kurt Angle, and the speed of Eddie Guerrero. While these three guys were capable of pulling out good to great to amazing matches with Mysterio, most of them were limited to one kind of match against the little guy. If Lesnar and Mysterio had been given a proper program together, their matches likely would have rivaled Rey's best outings against guys like Angle or Guerrero, simply because Brock could do nearly everything they could and more. He was big enough to manhandle Rey, but still athletic enough to sell Mysterio's high-flying offense. He could Military Press the shit out of Rey, but then he could also actually properly take Rey's Hurricanrana or Head Scissors. Rey and Brock were able to offer a technical Big Man vs. Little Man match, which is something I can't recall seeing anywhere else.


Rey's had a lot of matches against big men, but nothing quite like his work with Lesnar

And yeah, I realize I'm basing all of this off of very limited work that these guys did together. And yeah, this week's match isn't incredibly long or anything. But still, I call upon this match as proof of a lost opportunity on WWE's part. If Lesnar had stuck around a couple years longer, or if Rey's main event push had come a couple years earlier, we would have been getting some straight up bangin' WWE Title clashes between the two guys.

Another part of this match and/or time period that I think is worth pointing out is the evolution of one Brock Lesnar. The dude was never at any point in his career a slouch inside the ring, but by the end of '03 it was clear that the dude had risen to a whole new level of awesomeness. He got better and better throughout '02, began his stride of excellent consistency at WMXIX, and by the end of the year he was the fucking man. Brock finishes Mysterio off in this SmackDown bout with the infrequently-used Brock Lock, a move that Lesnar began utilizing following the embarrassment of being made to tap out by Benoit and Angle. Once the Brock Lock came into play, something started to change about Lesnar's matches. Instead of just being really good, they became really amazingly good. Incorporating a submission style alongside his regular power-based offense, along with becoming a total genius of ring psychology and working a crowd, Brock Lesnar became the best in the WWE during his last six months as a pro wrestler. The Brock Lock makes me wonder what we could have seen had Lesnar's heart stayed in the business. As awesome as the dude was at the end of his career, the amazing part is that he was still getting even better. I fully believe he could very well have gone on to become one of the greatest of all time if he had stuck it out, but alas, it wasn't meant to be.


WHY IT ISN'T REMEMBERED

The time of brand-exclusive PPVs was ... interesting. At certain points of the year it meant some incredibly creative booking that allowed for a great amount of exposure for a lot of guys. At other times it meant HHH squashed an entire brand within a 30 day period. But looking back now, even when the booking was spot-on, I have trouble sorting out who fought who and when, considering brands would often have to stretch out and mix and match feuds over the course of a couple of months.

For example, Brock Lesnar was a hell of a busy man as 2003 was drawing to a close. At the time of this SmackDown match with Mysterio, Brock's last PPV title defense had been at October's SmackDown-only No Mercy, where he defended the strap against Undertaker. This was while Lesnar still had some beef with Kurt Angle that went back to their Iron Man Match in September when Brock won Angle's title. And while that was going on, the WWE Champ was having a good bit of trouble with two guys thirsting for their first taste of the WWE Title, those being Chris Benoit and John Cena. Oh, and let's not forget the unstable relationship Brock had with the behemoths that made up his Survivor Series team, particularly The Big Show. To top it all off, there was this racecar driver who wouldn't leave the E's top guy alone.

Wait ... a racecar driver?


I give you January '04's number one contender for the WWE Championship

The video I posted for this match cuts off too early, but if it followed SmackDown to the end of that night's broadcast, you'd see a dude in a Rey Mysterio mask jump the guard rail and attack Brock Lesnar. Then that dude would take off his mask and be revealed as the last JOB Squad member standing. Bob Holly's issues with Lesnar stretched back to a year prior to this SmackDown match with Mysterio, where Lesnar had accidentally (or probably un-accidentally) dropped Hardcore on his head in a singles match. Holly sat on the shelf for a year, and by the grace of God, the E decided to give the career midcarder a major feud with the dude who injured him upon his return. Considering Brock's WWE Championship at the time, you'd think the E would've intentionally forgotten about the Holly/Lesnar history. But instead, we got Brock Lesnar vs. Bob Holly at the Royal Rumble for the WWE Championship. I wish I was making this up.

This SmackDown match is hurt not only by Lesnar's full plate of challengers at the time, but moreso by the fact that his primary challenger was BOB HOLLY. If you asked me to recall what Brock Lesnar was up to towards the end of '03/beginning of '04, I'd immediately say, "FEUDING WITH SPARKPLUG!" I have more or less blocked from my memory much of what Lesnar was doing at the time, simply because of the absurdity of Holly challenging for the title. Everything Brock was doing against Angle, Cena, and Benoit was money, as was the match with Eddie in February, but that Bob Holly feud stuck in the middle there is completely forgettable. Unfortunately, this forgettableness (new words rule!) cancels out most of the other stuff going on at the time, and therefore we have awesome televised bouts like this one against Mysterio that get swept under the rug and passed over.


WILL IT BE REMEMBERED?

Eh, I'm not so sure on this one. Regardless of whether Rey's contract expires in three years or thirty, WWE will see to it that they produce 856 Rey Mysterio DVDs from now until then. There is a lot of money to be made off of that little masked dude, and Vince McMahon knows it very well. The only thing working against this match is the fact that Rey kind of tapped out in kind of his hometown in front of his family (kind of -- Dominic is Eddie's, remember?) This might not be the best match to highlight on a Rey Mysterio-focused production, so who knows. And provided Brock doesn't come crawling back after being punched retarded in the octagon, I think it's a safe bet to assume that we aren't going to see any new WWE-produced Lesnar DVDs ever again. And then there's the fact that I had a bit of trouble tracking this match down online ... at least in comparison to the ease with which I'm able to find most of the matches I cover. So actually, maybe this doesn't stand a huge chance of having a real legacy. It's in your hands now, wrestling fans. Spread the word.


Feedback! (or, Proof Finally That I Pay Attention to My Readers!)

Enjoyed Jericho working in "Bombs Away" and the throat snap off of the ropes. Randy Savage reference = Win.

Posted By: Chief Runs With Beer

I assume you are as psyched as I am for the badassery of next Tuesday's MACHO MAN DVD. Let us all celebrate for the day we thought would never come.

Im sorry but this is a load of bull. During his ENTIRE origional 8 year tenure from 1984 to 1992 on top of the WWF he only put over the Ultimate Warrior. But you know you can understand that I mean who was there who deserved a title run. I mean other than Andre the Giant, Million Doller man, Roudy Roddy Piper, Mr Perfect, Ric Flair and Psycho Sid there was really no good heals for Hulk Hogan to put over.

During his run in WCW from 1992 to 2000 he put over nobody and screwed everybody from Bret Hart to Sting (and in a mastertroke of politicing manached to almost ruin both thier carears at Starcade 1997).

Yes when he came back he gave some good offence to Chris Jericho and put over Brock Lesner but
A) this does not excuse 2 decades of selfishness and burying everybody with political mindgames and
B) In 2002 hogan had no place anywhere neer the world heavyweight championship. The fact that he had a run in 2002 disgraced the title.

Posted By: awindos

It depends on what you mean by "put over." I'd say that any heel that stepped into the ring with Hulk Hogan in 1987 was automatically more over as a result. His win/loss record shattered every other wrestler at the time, but he was the centerpiece of the company and the main reason people were tuning in. And even with a ridiculous number of victories to his name during Hulkamania's first run, Hogan still has some significant losses from the time, including WWE Title losses to four different guys: Andre, Warrior, Undertaker, and Yokozuna.

Hogan's WCW run was mostly a disaster because WCW itself was mostly a disaster. No one's career was in danger of being ruined by Starrcade. The only way Hulk Hogan or Sting could've ruined their careers in 1997 was if they fucked a kid or hated on the Jews or something. It was a shitty ending to what had been one of WCW's only well-executed storylines that could've been a whole lot better, but it did nothing in the long run. WCW was ruined by their dependence on the nWo storyline (which would've continued for ages regardless of a feasible Starrcade finish) and Steve Austin.

And Hogan put over a ton of talent in 2002, all of which I covered last week. And Hogan's '02 title run is nowhere near what I'd consider a disgrace. If he held the belt for nine months and went clean over all the company's heels, I'd agree with you. But the dude held the belt for a month and dropped it in his second title defense. It sparked some interest at the time and gave long-time fans something special for a month.

"There's no reason why Hogan should be judged any differently from any other dude who's just trying to earn a living."

I think a bigger gripe people have with him these days is how much Hogan bullshits about everything. The way he's changed and exaggerated what he thinks is the real story behind the WM3 main event with Andre is just one example.

To be upset with Hogan over not jobbing from the 1980s until 1990 is absurd. There's mountains of evidence available proving how big of a draw he was, and I think that goes without saying for most people at this point. Now, 1993 is another matter altogether...

Posted By: s1rweeze

I don't see a problem with Hogan bullshitting stories about WM 3, because really, the only people who fall prey to such embellishments are people who are unfamiliar with pro wrestling anyway. Hogan's just putting himself over, like he always has. If Hogan adds a couple extra hundred pounds to Andre in his story, he's not doing it at the expense of anybody else.

Side Note: Me and a buddy ran into VIRGIL at a local mall a couple years ago. He had a table set up in the middle of the mall on a goddamn Wednesday afternoon, complete with a "WWF SUPERSTAR VIRGIL!" banner. We talked to him for about fifteen minutes and I learned two things about Virgil: 1.) He's a really nice dude. 2.) He's completely full of it. While I can't say enough about how cool and personable he was, he lied his face off to me, thinking that I was a mark who was completely in the dark on wrestling history. He told me he was the youngest guy to ever main event and sell out Madison Square Garden, when he tagged with Hulk Hogan against Andre the Giant and Randy Savage. And yet during all of the massively false self-promotion, I smiled and nodded and pretended like he was the man. Because really, what harm is it in Virgil putting himself over to a mark at the mall on a Wednesday afternoon? As independent contractors, these dudes are completely alone and their top priority is always to put themselves over. If it isn't hurting anybody, there's no reason to mind it.

I think you mean "YouTube STILL Rules," brother.

The 2002 title run for Hogan seemed more like a gift for the fans rather than Hogan himself. The crowd shit themselves for his return, especially at WrestleMania. Hell, I was NEVER a Hogan fan and when I saw him enter the arena the night after Backlash with the gold...I marked out. I'm not ashamed to admit it, cos it was something to experience.

I'm not gonna argue for Hogan in most instances but, according to multiple sources, Hogan wanted to put Sting over clean in minutes at Starrcade and it was Bischoff who wanted the screwjob to play on Montreal.

Posted By: neverAcquiesce

I enjoyed Hogan's '02 title run and saw no real problem with it. Lasting any longer than a month might've been a stretch, but given the circumstances, WWE worked it out just the way it should've. And as for Starrcade, I'm not so sure about that. But this debate will rage on as I go further down the comments ...

Dang, it is easy to forget how much Hogan was doing in the WWE in 2002. Thanks for the reminder.

Posted By: NoirFan

No matter how much of a prick people may make him out to be for other years of his career, 2002 really displayed Hulk's dedication to the E.

Posted By: awindos (Guest) on May 28, 2009 at 02:03 AM

During his run in WCW from 1992 to 2000 he put over nobody and screwed everybody from Bret Hart to Sting (and in a mastertroke of politicing manached to almost ruin both thier carears at Starcade 1997).
--------------------------------

Actually Hogan pushed to have Sting squash him but WCW creative wouldn't have it.

I'm not the biggest Hogan fan but that statement is straight incorrect.

Posted By: Guest#1156

The story I remember is that Hogan was saying one thing and doing another. He was apparently pushing to put Sting over and then paid the referee off in order to screwify the finish. I don't know about this theory, because it seems too retarded to actually benefit Hogan in any way, since the match made everyone look like shit. But the debate continues!

I don't think the match gets mentioned because of Jericho's burial in 2002. His Undisputed Title reign was booked as a joke despite going over Austin and Rock twice (I mean, c'mon, a TITLE DEFENSE against MAVEN?!). After Triple H buried him in their feud, it was back to the mid-card. So of course a Jericho/Hogan encounter in 2002 gets no love...at the time, even though he was a former Undisputed champ, he still wasn't taken seriously as a main eventer, let alone a threat to Hogan. Then the brand split happened and everything just got fucked.

Hogan put over Warrior, Goldberg (sorta) and Brock...NO ONE else. Hogan only sold cause he had no choice or he'd LOSE HIS JOB. Think Vince cares about Hogan's bullshit? Hell no...cause Vince only wants what Hogan wants, and that's the almighty dollar.

Posted By: Ramsey

Jericho's title reign wasn't really groundbreaking but victories over Stone Cold and The Rock are no joke. And I don't think the brand split hurt Jericho too much, at least at first. He formed a beastly tag team with Christian and had strong singles feuds with both Ric Flair and Shawn Michaels. He got lost in midcard obscurity after that of course, but it still took a little while.

And again, what does "put over" mean? Roddy Piper was able to cross over into mainstream media because he worked with Hulk Hogan. Randy Savage exploded into superstardom as WWE Champion when he worked with Hulk Hogan. Some rookie named the Undertaker won his first WWE Title with a pinfall over Hulk Hogan. And then there are the heels who instantly gained credibility when opposing the Hulkster, from DiBiase to Orndorff to Perfect. For a time, Hogan was bigger than the business, and that meant that anybody involved in a program with him was instantly elevated.


"...a title match against Hulk Hogan is definitely a highlight of anyone's career."

WAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!

Tell that to Stunning Steve Austin. A man who came up with a program to be the "Steve-amaniac", follower of Hulk Hogan only to have that idea shot down by the bookers. I think Austin did pretty good considering he didn't have a title match against Hardcore Hoagie in his tenure with WCW and WWE.

Hell Austin's only connection to the Orange one were his Monday Nyquil skits on ECW.

But you may be right... I'm sure a match with Hoagie did wonders for everyone he faced. Just look at Billy Kidman. Or THE WALL, BROTHER!

Posted By: Smithy Blythe

I didn't say that a Hogan title match is the highlight of anyone's career. It just is a highlight, because he's fucking Hulk Hogan. This is why Austin wanted to work a program with Hogan in WCW, because Austin knew that Hogan was the biggest name of all time, and anyone stepping in the ring with him was going to get a lot of attention. And yes, Austin ended up doing alright without having gotten that match. But if he had, that match would've been the highlight of his career at that point. So if you're wondering, then yes, you accidentally proved my point. If this does not make sense to you, then I'm sorry, something is wrong inside your brain.

great article grimm.
hogan's tenure in '02 is my personal favorite in hogan's career.
i also forgot how damn great wwe was then.

Posted By: Csonkamaniac III

2002 was pretty incredible as far as the starpower of the overall roster of the company goes. Although it wasn't always at the same time throughout the year, the E's '02 roster boasted Austin, Rock, Hogan, Flair, Michaels, Hall, Nash, Undertaker, Angle, HHH, Lesnar, Benoit, Guerrero, and plenty, plenty more. Ah, the good old days.

"Im sorry but this is a load of bull. During his ENTIRE origional 8 year tenure from 1984 to 1992 on top of the WWF he only put over the Ultimate Warrior. But you know you can understand that I mean who was there who deserved a title run. I mean other than Andre the Giant, Million Doller man, Roudy Roddy Piper, Mr Perfect, Ric Flair and Psycho Sid there was really no good heals for Hulk Hogan to put over.

During his run in WCW from 1992 to 2000 he put over nobody and screwed everybody from Bret Hart to Sting (and in a mastertroke of politicing manached to almost ruin both thier carears at Starcade 1997).

Yes when he came back he gave some good offence to Chris Jericho and put over Brock Lesner but
A) this does not excuse 2 decades of selfishness and burying everybody with political mindgames and
B) In 2002 hogan had no place anywhere neer the world heavyweight championship. The fact that he had a run in 2002 disgraced the title.

Posted By: awindos"

Yeah, uh, I happened to catch an episode of TNA iMPACT or whatever its called, and even Sting acknowledged Hulk Hogan is the reason wrestling is what it is.

And very few people wanted to see Hulk Hogan lose back in the day, so why should he? It would have been dumb for Hogan's character to put those people over - the people you listed had one job to do - put Hogan over more. I'm fed up too, with people bitching and whining about Hogan not putting people over. It was the best decision for business (in his initial WWF run).

Granted, his WCW Tenure was different, but there were other factors too - like Bischoff wanting to use Bret Hart to do a Montreal style screw job. You might be a little workrate smark or mark or whatever the hell you call it, but you and your little friends are a small minority of fans. The bottom line is, your work rate heroes don't sell tickets like an ENTERTAINER such as Hogan did. And don't tell me Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart etc. were as big a draw as Hogan - all three of those men are talented as hell in the ring, and earned their reputation as great in ring competitors etc, but still, they didn't draw like Hogan. Get over it.

And Hogan's run in 2002 was not a disgrace, it was an amazing opportunity for a new generation of fans to see the man who made Wrestling popular have a brief run with the Belt. To say he had no business anywhere near the Belt is down right ignorant of you. Get over it.

Am I Hogan fan? Hell yeah. I don't find any of the new crop of Superstars - or the majority of the "work rate" wrestlers entertaining, but I don't shit all over them.

I don't care if you don't like my opinion. Cause I sure as sh*t don't like yours.

Posted By: Gentleman Jim

Totally agreed, fellow Jim. Every major heel on the E's roster during the 80's had one role: to oppose Hulk Hogan. The numbers are proof that WWE made the right call at the time by keeping the belt on Hogan because people kept tuning in. All that matters is how much money is being pulled in, and Hogan sure as hell raked it in.

Hogan going over Orton at Summerslam 2006: defend THAT, junior!

Posted By: KanyonKreist

Everybody knows that the feud isn't over and that Hogan is planning on returning the favor at Mania 29. Come on, man, stay up with the dirtsheets.

Bischoff says very differently, he says that Hogan was the one that stopped the Starrcade match from being one-sided or even a squash. And he'd never be one to bad mouth Hogan unnecessarily.

Anyway, as for this match...main thing I remember is Jericho's excellent freaking out during the Hulk Up. Classic stuff, he and Billy Gunn in particular was great doing that. Hulk's late 2002 was quite fun, giving Edge a treased moment with the tag belts, putting Angle over strong (with the great line - "I lost my hair match with Mother Nature, dude.") and doing the same with Lesnar.

I don't agree with everything Hulk did but I had no problem with this stint.

Posted By: Ryushinku

I wish we got more Hulkster like the one we saw in 2002, but that one year provided a hell of a lot of good memories. Much like HBK worked to clear his name after his comeback, Hogan did just that in 2002. Now ... he may have damaged his reputation since, but that's another story.

awindos,

your saying Hogan was burying people for 2 decades? Go research your Pro Wrestling History and come back and tell me who was putting the most money and the WWF's pockets during Hogans run. He lost on the house show circuit and tv tapings via count out, dq, or being pinned. just because it didnt happen as much to your liking doesnt mean he was out for himself. you stated that he really had no one else to put over but every name you list he put over as a believeable threat. not to mention yokozuna killed hogan. now WCW on the other hand let him run wild when he should have been on a leash. he made VADER look silly and hurt him on his way out the door(but WWF destroy him with no remorse) he put over Arn Anderson twice, the Giant, lex luger, sting, hell even Ed Leslie. now between 1994-1997 he had 19 losses(tv,ppv,house shows) not a lot put he was raking them up from then on. as far as your comment on his 2002 WWE Title win. why couldnt he win it? it was a harmless title change that was meant for the fans...

Posted By: Babyboy3686

People who research and prove points that I'd like to make but am too lazy to rule. I agree with you completely. Hogan did put guys over throughout his career and is not the evil unjobbable force he's made out to be.

Wasn't Jericho/Hogan, SmackDown's lowest rating ever at that point?

Posted By: Davo

Not sure about this. Someone with resources ... you know you want to answer this.

First of all lets clear up starcade 1997. I would challenge anyone to present me with clear evidence that hogan wanted to be squashed by sting. However 3 books that I have read (Eric Bishoffs Book, The Benoit wrestling Curse and the Rise and fall of WCW) all have said that hogan agreed to the screwjob finish then bribed nick patrick to do a normal count thus screwing sting and bret heart because he was worried about them taking his spot. If anyone doubts that the "screwjob" finish went well all they have to do is youtube the match and that should tell you all you need to know.

Secondly I am all one for nostaliga I love seeing a superstar return for one last hurrah and I had no problem with Hulk Hogan returning in 2002 as alot of people marked out for it. There was nothing wrong with him having one more great wrestlemania match against the Rock or with his matches against Kurt Angle or his brief tag team run. But come on here people we are talking about the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. The world title should be held by the best in the world, the greatest athelete the federation has. I am a huge Rock fan, i idolised the rock I loved the rock and in 2000 rock deserved to be champion. I would love the man to come back for a few more matches and would mark out hard to see him but would I want to him to have one more run with the title NO THAT WOULD DEVALUE THE BELT as he is not the best right now and would be brought back for nostaliga. Are any one of you hulkamaniacs actually telling me 100% truithfully that Hulk Hogan was the right man to be a federations Champion in 2002. Come on people ricky steamboat came back this year why dont we put the intercontinental title around his waist for Nostalgia. My beef in 2002 was not with hogan being world champion by beef was with a man past his prime being world champion of what is supposed to be the best wrestling federation in the world and that would be just as true if the rock or stone cold came back and became champion.

Finnally I am not a complete smart I am a mark just like the rest of you and i can admit when i go a bit to far. yes the 1980's were all about hogan and his charecter made vince alot of money. If I was vince Mcmahon would i have booked it differently proberbly not to be honest so i cant really moan to much about that. However the main reason hogans charecter worked as well as it did was because he had great heals carrying him in the ring and providing opposition people wanted to see get beat and it would be nice if the hulkamaniacs out there would acknowledge that guys like million doller man and roudy rodey piper helped alot in the hulkamania years.

Posted By: awindos

The World Champion of a pro wrestling company does not need to be anywhere near the greatest athlete in the company. If athletics were really a major concern, the idea that Ric Flair lasted as long as he did against HBK at WM 24 is fucking insane. As is the fact that Flair has wrestled at all in the last 10 years. This is not a sport. This is entertainment. For the record, I'd have no problem with them putting the IC Title on Steamboat for a month. Titles are vehicles with which to earn and maintain heat. Nothing more.

This match, like 99% of Huckster matches, was nothing special. Jericho probably had at least 100 better matches in his career. Even the Huckster might have had a few.

The only thing I remember about any Jericho-Hogan matches/encounters was Y2J countering the Shitty Ledgrop of Doom with a leg trip into the Walls and JR either calling or blogging (I can't even remember which) about Jericho's phenomenal hand-eye coordination. I LOLed. That was the weakest attempt to promote a wrestler ever. "OMG Jericho hooked a crippled old man's leg when he was moving .000001 mph! Wow, what hand-eye coordination! Chris Jericho is extraordinary!"

In closing, Hogan sucks. Always and forever. Biggest douchebag to ever lace up the boots. I hated him when I was 6. I hated him when I was 16. I still hate him today. That orange fungus just needs to disappear forever.

Posted By: Guest#5105

Concept of my column = Ignored.


"To be upset with Hogan over not jobbing from the 1980s until 1990 is absurd. There's mountains of evidence available proving how big of a draw he was, and I think that goes without saying for most people at this point. Now, 1993 is another matter altogether...

Posted By: s1rweeze"

This is somewhat debatable. There is also evidence that crowds like following the face tenaciously pursue the heel. By showing the heel as a proven threat, who would also stop at nothing to retain the title, the writers give fans even more reason to watch.
It arguably makes for more compelling story lines. On the one hand, you have Hogan sure to retain. On the other, you have Hogan going through hell trying to retain what is his. Sure, everybody should expect him to win in the end, but the fun is in getting there. The question of "will this finally be it?" would drive people to watch more regularly.

To put it another way, I don't think there was a single person who would have stopped watching because the title wasn't on Hogan. Besides, heroes are only as great as the villain is bad.

Wrestling was different then, but storytelling basics have remained the same. Ulysses suffers throughout the Mediterranean, trying to get home from a war that he never wanted to be in. Knights slayed dragons who had laid waste to armies. Hercules contends with what the gods threw at him.
On the other hand, Tiger Woods is sometimes thought of as being less great because he has no equal to contend with, as Palmer et. al. did.

As for Jericho in the article, the rebuttal to how he was booked was the fact that Stephanie was his manager. Jericho and title were made secondary to the Triple H-Stephanie feud. He was also made to look like a weak bitch who needed Stephanie in his corner.
Now what did one of the best talkers, best heels (and pretty good face), and skilled wrestlers (noted ring general) need with a manager? He is a heat machine and managers are used to cover up the weaknesses of wrestlers. The only weakness Jericho had (and has) is stature. That is only an issue with those who cleave to the Way of Vince.

Posted By: Guest#7912

People always cite this "money in the chase" argument, and I still don't buy it. This was essentially the NWA's approach with Flair for most of the 80's. Compare the money the NWA made with the "chase" to the money Vinny Mac wiped his ass with while booking Hogan as the eternal champion. The only slightly acceptable application of the argument is all the money made during Austin's quest for the title, but even then that was NOT about people wanting to see him become WWE Champion. People paid to see Austin feud with McMahon. End of story.

"I'm not gonna argue for Hogan in most instances but, according to multiple sources, Hogan wanted to put Sting over clean in minutes at Starrcade and it was Bischoff who wanted the screwjob to play on Montreal.

Posted By: neverAcquiesce (Guest) on May 28, 2009 at 12:03 PM"

Could you name the said sources now ?

Cause It's the very first time I've ever read such a statement about Hogan wanting to put Sting "over" and "clean" at Starccade 1997...

Posted By: Guest#1052

Since I have no answers, I'm leaving this to you guys.

- -

Another week, another column. You may not believe it, but I'm actually sort of planning next week's column in advance. And if I stick to the plan, next week's article will be, uh, EVIL! INDEED!

So, uh, take that for what you will. Until next time, stay safe and out of jail.