If I Could Be Serious For A Moment 06.17.09: Mythbusters

Posted by Chris Lansdell on 06.17.2009

A day late, but not a dollar short, we go gusting myths...IWC style.

Greetings, humanity! Welcome back to If I Could Be Serious for a Moment, your weekly dose of intelligent wrestling discourse with me, Chris Lansdell. Some weekend we just had, huh? NBA and NHL seasons wrapping up, interleague baseball, and the death of a bona fide wrestling legend in Mitsuharu Misawa. Others on this site with more knowledge of the man than I have will doubtless be penning tributes, but I need a week to gather my thoughts before I write anything on it. Stay tuned. In the meantime, we've finished our look at the three major feds, which is something I will likely revisit in a few months, and are on the hunt for new topics. Before we get to this week's, we'll look at your comments from last week. Here comes the

BANNER!



Serious Feedback

I think the process has already started of pushing new main eventers, if Punk's heel turn (hopefully) turns out the way many hope it will keep him top of the card, plus MVP is on the road the title now I think.

I think the injuries to HBK, Taker & Batista have opened there eyes more and I fully expect another 2 or 3 main eventers by the time the summer's over.

Posted By: jbardo (Guest) on June 09, 2009 at 12:22 PM

Looks like Miz and Morrison are being positioned near the top as well. It is refreshing to see some upward mobility, but the fact that it took some injuries (and vacations, as I don't remember reading that HBK was hurt) to provoke it is a crying shame. What, you couldn't figure out that fresh blood was needed?

I'd LIKE to see 2 or 3 new main eventers before the end of the summer…I just don't know who they could realistically and credibly elevate in that short a time.


Great article. You make some really good points. IMO, the lack of decent heels (outside of Jericho, Orton and Edge) has really hurt the product over the long term. I always felt it makes for poor drama if the heel doesn't stand tall at the end of the show some of the time. Smackdown and sometimes WWECW gets that some of the time but when was the last time that Orton/Legacy, or any other heel for that matter, was allowed to stand tall at the end of an episode of RAW? It's rare if it's allowed to happen 5 times in a year. If the heel is never considered to be a threat, the audience will never fully invest in the face and the audience won't be encouraged to pay to finally see the heel get his comeuppance. It's some really classic and basic booking that the WWE has seemed to forget over the years.

The main reason Hulk Hogan was so popular over the years is that the heels were always allowed to look strong, even at the expense of Hogan on several occasions. The audience paid to go to the house shows and paid for the PPVs to see Hogan finally beat whoever he was facing. That kind of booking has worked since the beginning of pro wrestling.

Posted By: Cory (Guest) on June 09, 2009 at 01:38 PM

You make a good point. I plan on talking in detail about getting people over in the coming weeks, but this is the crux of one of the issues: nobody will care about the faces if the heels aren't strong. Legacy have looked strong, most recently after punting Flair, but it took 3 of them to do it and a cage to protect them from one face.

SD will just steal all of WWE's momentum and that's a good thing. Jeff Hardy seems to be going bye bye, Edge really needs a break cuz he's been having all these crazy matches, pushing Punk in his place as a top heel is smart. And with the WWE wanting to keep away from drug suspensions and the steroid moniker, who better to push as your star than a man who has drug free tattooed on his hands. What a (hopefully) great storyline if Punk talks about not wanting to be on the show where the top face has well-known problems. Punk really is so much better as a heel and it seems in the past few months his popularity has been waning a bit. I think he could be a heel the fans cheer.

RAW is just a waste, plain and simple. The top stars won't change. They'll push Miz and MVP and probably bury them on the same Monday Night RAW. Miz unfortunately is being pushed against Cena who will never let (and neither will McMahon) Miz legitimately go over on him. MVP is now pushed aside for HHH, so he falls to the side. HBK can come back, but for what? Taker is really an entity more than anything that is suited just fine with being around once and a while. Being on SD doesn't demand he be on all year because other guys are pushed in his place. Batista is a waste and should've gotten the Kennedy treatment. RAW is just dying honestly.

As far as the women go, the best of the best are on SD and ECW which is lucky for them. Beth and Mickie aren't really doing anything on RAW as they've been pushed aside for Santina and Kelly Kelly. Thankfully the title that matters is on Melina and on SD. Natalya, the real best of the entire division may not be wrestling, but she's on every week in a meaningful capacity and is the needed mouthpiece for the Hart Dynasty. ECW and SD tape together, and I'd love to see her get a title push. She and Melina could have a great summertime feud.

Posted By: CL (Guest) on June 09, 2009 at 01:45 PM

Well with the benefit of hindsight it looks like WWE are going to let the fans decide what Punk is. The whole "he's a heel"/"he's a face" dynamic is not as important as it was a few years ago, and Punk as a tweener could work fine. More on that later. I won't declare Raw a waste until I see MVP and to a lesser extent Miz have their pushes derailed by HHH and HBK. I'm no Batista fan and couldn't care less if he were employed or not.


You didn't really put Trish in the same category as Candace, Eve, and Kelly did you? In the In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary... come again?

Posted By: ScottieD (Guest) on June 09, 2009 at 01:46 PM

Re-reading it, I realise my error. However, Trish was NOT the greatest women's wrestler who ever lived, as some of the commenters seemed to think. Good, yes. Better than those with whom I lumped her, yes.

The E should trim the fat and just have one three hour show a week. Most likely RAW. Do away with Smackdown,ECW and Superstars. The ECW name is tarnished I doubt many people will miss the show.
Also breakdown the PPVS and just have the big four. Wrestlemainia, Royal Rumble, Summer Slam and Survivor Series. Less burn out and more build up and excitement for the fans.

With a 3-hour show every week, the PPVs wouldn't feel special any more. And cutting down that much will mean even less time to push new people. With only 3 hours a week, would we ever get past the main event picture?

I wonder why people get so mad so quick about the main event scene. I am like everyone else when I say I want someone new but the question is who. We can pull names up but the fact is everyone in WWE and TNA who the fans would respond to as champ has had it at one time or another. It's a business and it really doesn't matter if the IWC's favourite workrate guy is capable until the fans respond there is no point in bitching. Also as for the Jericho/HBK feud that saved and reinvented Chris Jericho from his attitude down to his manner of dress and ring attire. I don't see how you can say his storyline didn't have a purpose because he was floundering. I will say this with Batista gone I have quite a bit of hope for Raw now. Say what you want about HHH but he can put on a match...and Batista can't.

Posted By: The Get Some Kid (Guest) on June 09, 2009 at 07:11 PM

I hear you man, but the thing is if the bookers wanted, they could elevate someone to the main event by booking them correctly. You're right about the fans wanting the same guys and putting all their eggs in the workrate basket, but the fact is that a good booker can get anyone over. Hogan was over with little workrate. Benoit was over with little charisma. The biggest problem I had with the HBK/Jericho feud is that it went on too long and did nothing to elevate a new talent. Jericho was floundering but they could have halved that feud and he still would have looked good. Now, on to this week's column!

You hold these truths to be self-evident

The Internet Wrestling Community has some strong opinions, this is no secret. Whether it's "Push X", "Fire Y" or "Z sucks", they are not shy about voicing them either. Some of the opinions are well thought out and have some merit, but many are just personal preferences. They get repeated so often, however, that they have almost become "net canon" as it were: the creed of the IWC member. What makes up this creed? What's true, false and partially valid? Let's have a look!

CM Punk should turn heel / CM Punk should be champ and feud with (insert top name here)

Verdict: Partly true

I'm a huge CM Punk fan, in case you hadn't noticed. However even my straight edge fandom pales in comparison to the way some members of the IWC have hailed Punk as the second coming. Once it became clear that Punk was being taken seriously in WWE, the clamouring for him to feud with Edge, HHH, HBK. Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton and even John Cena started. He won the title and had one of the least impressive title runs in history, facing what amounts to 3 stiffs (JBL, Kane, Batista) before being punted out of the Championship Scramble. No heel turn, no big-name feud, and no revenge on Orton for the punt. The portion of the IWC who adore Punk rioted, and the portion who never understood his appeal wondered why it happened at all.

Fast forward a year and Punk is champion again. Only this time, he DOES seem to be turning heel, and he IS feuding with big names. He's been floating in limbo ever since winning and dropping the IC title and this turn might do more for him than the title run. The desire for heel Punk has been strong since before he was involved in the ECW Originals – New Breed feud, and the longer it was ignored the stronger it got. It almost seemed like the Punkites were using the "They should turn him heel" argument as a counter to the Punkaphobe's dislike of him, and the growth of one fuelled the other. Punk's straight edge character is at its best when it is forced into your face by a heel who believes he's better than you. Some of his best mic work has been on heel promos doing just that. However I think Punk needed that initial run as a face to establish himself both as a guy who can be popular as a face and a guy who is a credible threat. Having done that it will be easier for fans to understand why they should boo him now, because the majority of WWE fans need to be led by the hand that way.

Although it's too early to tell for sure, my feeling is that the heel turn (if it ends up being a full-fledged heel turn) will do more long-term for Punk's character and heat than his title run will. He'll probably hold the belt through Survivor Series at the latest, but he should stay a heel for longer than that. The more work he gets in with his "Drug free and better than you" promos, the more he will be hated. For now, he's in almost the ideal situation.

Get rid of the old people!



Verdict: False

Ask most people what's wrong with TNA and, to a lesser extent, Raw, and they'll tell you that the same old people are at the top. Sting, Foley, Steiner, Nash, Jarrett, Booker, HHH, Batista…all the wrong side of 35, most the wrong side of 40. Some even the wrong side of 50. The feeling is that with these relics at the top of their respective promotions, and with them monopolising titles and airtime, the younger crowd will never rise.

If it were warranted this would be an admirable stance to take. The thing is it's not only not warranted, it's not genuine. The problem most proponents of this belief have is not with the older guys being at the top, it's with the lack of push for their own favourites, even if that push is not warranted. Let's be brutally honest here: the only "young" guy not currently in a world title picture who is ready to be there is AJ Styles. The rest of them are a step or two off at best, and they NEED the older, established name to get them to the next level. While a case could be made that the likes of Foley, Nash, Steiner and some of the more sluggish guys should step down, wrestling needs the HHHs, Angles, Stings and Bookers to put the younger guys over and make them feel important to viewers who may not have heard of them.

There are a lot of young(er), talented guys in wrestling now. WWE has Miz, Morrison, MVP, Bourne and Kofi. TNA has Sabin, Shelley, Lethal, Joe and Hernandez. Although they all have talent in at least one area, the fans are in a position where they just don't care enough (any more, in Joe's case) about these guys to back them as world championship material. Eventually the torch needs to be passed to these guys, and in some cases it should be passed sooner rather than later, but before that can happen the booking needs to change.

It's all very well to sit here and blame the older guys for not stepping back when you think they should, but the fact is that the bookers are the ones offering them the titles and the upper card runs. You can't blame them for accepting it. With the way these guys have been booked, it would be disastrous for them all to step down now. If they all job themselves silly on the way out, it would look absurd after they've been booked so strongly and the wins would mean less. Rest comfortable in the knowledge that they can't go on forever, and if they have any respect for the business, they will do the right thing on the way out.

John Cena sucks and should be turned heel

Verdict: False

Jim Ross has it absolutely right: John Cena is (or rather has been) the most polarising champion in the history of professional wrestling. For some reason, a large portion of the IWC has taken to booing Cena with such fire that it sometimes drowns out the cheers from the larger part of the crowd. The feeling ranges from "His shtick is old and he's been booked like Superman" to "OMGLOLWTFBBQ Cena sux he is on roids for sure and he loves vinces man meat up his cornhole LOL cuck fena! He wins we riot"

Let's start with the pure nonsense. I highly doubt Cena is gay, and even if he is...so what? It does not impact on his ability to entertain us in the slightest. The steroids issue is a prickly one when it comes to professional wrestling. If he were using anything detectable, Wellness would have picked it up. Whether or not they would suspend Cena is another question but really, who is he hurting? If he's taking something in a non-competitive sport, it only hurts him. It's not like he's availing of free health care or anything. The people spouting this homophobic vitriol are really one or more of the following: jealous of Cena's tremendous success, sheep trying to hate Cena because it's cool, or pissed off because Cena is in the spot they want for their pet favourite.

The more intelligent theory is harder to debunk. Cena's character has changed only very slightly since he beat JBL for his first world title. He's toned down a lot so as to appeal to the money market of parents buying for kids, but the basic character of a "street-tough white guy" is very much intact. And to be quite honest, it is boring at times, the humour is juvenile quite often and he's lost the edge that made him popular with the IWC to start with. That's the major issue: he WAS cool to the net fans, now he's not because he is no longer aimed at that demographic. The money is in the kids, Vince knows this and Vince uses this. He HAS been booked like Superman, but he's been left lying by monster heels far more times than people like HHH, so when he wins it is far more important...in theory. This worked great with another guy you may have heard of: Hulk Hogan. That it isn't working so well right now is an indicator of how much the business has changed. Back then nobody cared that Hogan won at every major show, because he was popular. Cena is popular with the same demographic, but they're not making up the entire audience now. Effectively, the theory is factually correct but it doesn't matter. Cena is what he is because he should be. He doesn't suck, he's not gay, and as long as he's making the GDP of many small countries in merchandise revenue, it's not going to change.

Turning Cena is an interesting proposition. Although I really can't see how they get there from here, if they did manage it they would have nuclear heat on him immediately. The issue is that the people booing him now would, in all likelihood, start cheering him the second it happened. They'd also lose all the kiddie fans who are currently keeping WWE afloat. Long story short: bad plan.

AJ Styles, Samoa Joe and Christopher Daniels are the future of professional wrestling

Verdict: Partially True

One of the most common cries of TNA fans and detractors alike is that these three wrestlers should be pushed to the moon, given all the title runs, and basically anointed the saviours of the promotion. Before Samoa Joe finally got his world title run, all you would see on the internet is how Angle was holding him down, and how Joe needed the belt. While Daniels was Curry Man/Suicide, every day you'd see comments begging TNA to bring him back as Daniels so he could rescue the Front Line and the promotion. AJ Styles has been mentioned in every discussion on "Who is underused in TNA" since they got their prime time deal.

As you can probably tell above, I agree with almost all of these statements as they pertain to AJ Styles. The man has every tool needed to succeed in professional wrestling, and if TNA get off their asses and give him back the ball I believe he can do wonders. He's not the ratings saver that people seem to think TNA will find, but he's the best bet to keep people watching and maybe attract some more. He's the part of this with which I agree.

I think the reasons people lump the other two in with AJ are twofold. One, when TNA was an upstart promotion it was the matches being put on by these three guys that really grabbed headlines. Two, they all had a solid body of work in RoH and other indies to draw a rabid internet fanbase. They are both good wrestlers, no question. The emphasis, though, is on good, not great.

Samoa Joe had a run with the title, and it failed. He was given the honour of being the first man to retain the TNA title in a King of the Mountain match and probably has more clean wins over Kurt Angle than anyone. In RoH his style was immensely popular and won a lot of support, as did his mic work. Unfortunately the RoH fans are not representative of the mainstream fans and Joe just didn't translate as well. In a lot of ways Joe's TNA run is similar to Goldberg's WCW run: the streak was such a major part of his character that once he started being challenged and even losing, his popularity was always going to wane. Losing to Tomko with a clothesline, for example, didn't help. Joe is a good hand, he can have good matches and he has potential to be a strong contributor, but right now he's not the leader of anything. He looks worse than he ever did, the angle he's in is downright horrible and he's fast losing the fans that once worshipped him. He needs to clear all that up before he gets a shot at the top again.

Daniels on the other hand has a lot more going for him. He cuts incredible promos that do resonate with a more mainstream audience, he doesn't look like he's a candidate for a heart attack and the things he can do in the ring are more accessible to the mainstream. What's the issue then? He's 38. Hard to believe, but true. The Shawn Michaels of this world are few and far between, and the chances that Daniels has more than 3 or 4 years left are slim to none. Therefore he's unlikely to be the future of anything. Although overall I'd rank him ahead of Samoa Joe, his age means that he really can't be counted on to lead TNA for long.

Shelton Benjamin is underused and should be pushed

Verdict: True

A few years ago, after splitting from his partner Charlie Haas, Shelton Benjamin scored a couple of shock wins over Triple H, who was in full-on dominant heel mode at the time. He was already something of a cult favourite, and beating the pre-Cena favourite IWC whipping boy catapulted him to the forefront of the IWC pantheon. And why not? He's ridiculously athletic, has the amateur chops to be sound in the ring and doesn't look like someone stick a bicycle pump in his arms.

The first question that comes to my mind when I read "Push Shelton!" is "Again? Why?" I mean the HHH push went nowhere, the numerous semi-pushes since have all fizzled, he has no mic skills and he seems incapable of holding the fans' interest one way or another. Although he's capable of some dazzling spots he's also prone to botches that stick in the memory a lot more than the successful moves. The sad reality is that he only showed charisma when his momma was around, in an angle that was more comedy than anything.

However, look at it from a different angle. He can't talk, so get him a manager. Tony Atlas is already in the company, for example. If he can't hold the fans' interest, maybe it's because he was buried by HHH after beating him twice and hasn't had a good angle since then to enable him to get over. Put him in a feud with a Jericho or a Jeff Hardy and let him really work on the fans, either to make them hate him or love him. With those two elements in place, the botches will become less important. Just ask Jeff Hardy and Rob van Dam.

WWE sucks, TNA sucks, RoH sucks

Verdict: False

This is going to be a short one. If on any given day you click on a news item on 411mania proclaiming to be WWE/RoH/TNA News, and you scroll down to the comments section, you will see at least one disparaging comment about the quality of the promotion on which we are reporting. Why someone would bother to click on an article just to insult the promotion is a mystery of life.

The thing with this theory of course is that everyone can't be right. If all the promotions suck, why are we watching wrestling. What they really mean to say is that the promotion is not for them. Funnily enough, the people who complain that the promotion sucks seem to know all the ins and outs of the angles, talent and so forth. There's also an element of trying to be cool here, as for some reason there is a segment of netizens who think it's uncool to actually like anything that's readily available.

More wrestling, less entertainment is a better formula

Verdict: Partially True

We'll finish up this section with a common complaint: wrestling has died, all we have now is sports entertainment and it sucks. A lot of net fans want to go back to...well, that's just it. WWF/E has never been about showcasing the wrestling, even in the Attitude Era which so many remember so fondly. Sure there was good wrestling then...if you could find it among the skits, promos, non-finishes and softcore porn. They want pure action and little else.

OK, sure. You want to turn everything into RoH circa 2006. As awesome as that was to watch for a "workrate mark" like me...it's not a successful or sustainable business model. We are a tiny minority and we cannot keep any major company afloat. The majority need the backstage antics to tell them who to cheer for and what's going on, and they enjoy it to boot. The fact is that in-ring action has become secondary to the storylines in WWE especially, and since they are the most successful company we should probably be taking them as the best example.

The thing is, it doesn't have to be that way. As long as there are still matches, you can still have good in-ring action without sacrificing the entertainment aspect. TNA and RoH manage to have quality matches, but their angles are either too complex and confusing or too cartoony. WWE goes the opposite way, although lately it's mostly Raw that's lacking match quality. It's not that there is too much entertainment and not enough wrestling, it's that no show on TV has the balance right.

Interesting side note: the people who complain about the skits tend to be the first ones to drool when the divas come out in practically nothing. Hypocrite much?

Moment over.

Serious Tweet of the Week

This week's question: Who in wrestling would you like to see get a push? All of these answers actually came through Facebook, but the ideal way is through Twitter.

Josh W at 3:12pm June 14
MIZ!

Kenny G (Manhattan, KS)
This is gonna be long, but here goes:

For the WWE, I would have to say Shelton Benjamin. The guy busts his ass night in night out delivering good-to-great matches all the time. Sure he botches every now and again, but I'm pretty sure Jeff Hardy has done that too. Shelton is consistently the star of the MITB match but never wins. So why can't he win one? If it is because of his lack of mic work, get him a manager like Mark Henry had with Tony Atlas!

For TNA, oh there could be so many. But for me, I think it is ridiculous that the MCMGs have never worn tag gold. They are the most over team in TNA, or at least one of the most over, they are always putting on great matches with spot-on teamwork. What's the hold-up? Oh yeah, old guys. I forgot. I would also toss AJ Styles in there, since he has not taken his rightful place in the main event scene in TNA for so long. He's Mr. TNA, that's why. The last one I would say for TNA is the Fallen Angel. He has won tag gold with Styles, and been a multi-time X-Division Champ. So why not elevate him? He pops the crowd, is great on the mic, what's the hold-up? Oh, yeah, old dudes. Daniels was in the greatest singles match of all time in TNA at Unbreakable 2005, the greatest tag match of all time in TNA at Turning Point 2004, and the best ... match of 2006 in TNA at No Surrender when he did his insane dive from the top of Ultimate X. Why not push the guy?

For ROH: I would say Tyler Black. Why didn't he beat Aries and Lynn for the title? He can do everything in the ring, gets great pops, and can cut a good promo. Why not give the guy a run? But no, let's give it to Aries, who really doesn't need the belt. You could also make a case for Claudio Castagnoli, because as a face, he was over, and he could deliver in the ring. I just never saw the reason why he could not beat Nigel for the title. This all comes from a simple guy who loves wrestling, not some brainiac who thinks he can book a promotion.

411's own Aaron Hubbard at 5:17pm June 14
WWE: Jamie Noble. I'm not saying I want him pushed to the moon or anything, but for crying out loud, put him in ECW and let him have great matches with the young guys. He's too talented to be wasted away in three minute matches jobbing to Santino.

TNA: The MCMG deserve a real push towards the tag team titles. They are in a very elite group of tag teams and deserve to be more than jobbers to the X-Division champion.

ROH: Claudio Castagnoli. For personal bias.

NOAH: KENTA should be pushed into the heavyweight division as a legitimate contender. Hell, have him beat Go soon.

Shawn 'Dithy' Meredith at 5:35pm June 14
RAW: The Miz

ECW: Tyson Kidd (In Progress)

SD: CM Punk, obviously he's the champ now, but I'm talking, Heel Mega push... Read More

TNA: Either Joe/Daniels/Kennedy (You know it's coming)

Ex 411er B-Rad Borchardt at 5:43pm June 14
Well I'm not sure if you mean main event push or just a bigger push but i think for RAW it would be nice to see Kofi Kingston get some sort of WWE title match. I love Edge but was also disappointed to see Kofi taken away from the Chamber Match so I hope he finds himself in a Championship Scramble Match or something of that nature before years end. ... He needs a t-shirt so WWE knows how big of a seller he is. At all the WWE events I've been to he has received HUGE pops. The Brian Kendrick also showed some promise during his one month main event push last year on Smackdown.

ECW: Zach Ryder is growing on me and I feel Evan Bourne will get a push soon anyway, so I got to go with Gregory Helms if he returns to the ring.

Smackdown: No question about it.....John Morrison. For a less obvious answer, i would say Benjamin or Truth.

Bradley "Bongo" Garden at 7:35am June 15

Triple H.... But seriously, Alex Shelley as a singles star. The man is Jericho v2.0!

And that's the late but still relevant edition of Serious for this week. Before we go, some pimpage:

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Stay Cool, Rock Hard. Lansdellicious – Out.