The 411 Wrestling Top 5 07.01.09: Week 29 Top United States Champions
Posted by Michael Bauer on 07.01.2009
From the legendary Ric Flair's six title reigns and Lex Luger's 500 plus day title reign to John Cena's run as champ in 2004, and to MVP's year long reign in 2008, 411's Wrestling Staffers rank their top United States Champions in the latest edition of the 411 Wrestling Top Five! See which moments made the lists by checking out the full article!
Hello everyone and welcome to 411 Wrestling's Top 5 List. What we are going to is take a topic each week and all the writers here on 411 wrestling will have the ability to give us their Top 5 on said topic, plus up to three honorable mentions. At the end, based on where all these matches rank on people's list, we will create the 411 Wrestling Top 5 list. The scoring is very similiar to the Wrestler of the Week as it looks like this:
#1 Choice 5 points
#2 Choice 4 points
#3 choice 3 points
#4 Choice 2 points
#5 Choice 1 point
Honorable Mentions will break ties, but get no points.
Also, in the case of a tie, the most votes win, regardless of where it is listed in the individual Top 5. I will also use this rule in the event that one item is mentioned more often, but is one point behind. For example, one second place vote and two Honorable Mentions will defeat simply one first place vote.
So, on to this week's topic
THE TOP 5 UNITED STATES CHAMPIONS
Well, this weekend marks the Fourth of July, the United States national birthday. And because it is so big, the banks and businesses of the country are closed on July 3rd, being the 4th is a Saturday. Don't we just love it? But the United States also was the name of the second richest prize in the business for the NWA and eventually the WCW. The WWE brought the title back after the brand split, but the luster of the title has not gone to waste. This week, we aske dthe 411 Staff to give us their Top 5 United States Champions.
So what did our group of writers select? Let's find out
Shawn S. Lealos
HONORABLE MENTIONS
Chris Benoit (5 times) - He held the belt twice in WCW (35 total days combined) and 3 times in the WWE. That ties him for the second most reigns ever.
MVP (2 times) - He hasn't been around long enough to warrant any more than an honorable mention but those two reigns were for a total of 419 days, which is pretty damn good.
Tully Blanchard (1 time) - He only held the belt once, but it lasted 130 days and he was so damn good, I always picture him as the champion in my memories.
5. Roddy Piper (3 times) - Before Roddy Piper won the title, there were numerous United States Champions recognized under the NWA banner. By January 1981, the final promotion to have their own US Champion other than Crockett Promotions closed its doors and making Roddy Piper the first "undisputed" US Champion. He held the belt three times and one of the greatest, most brutal matches you will ever see was the dog collar match at the first Starrcade between Piper and Greg Valentine for the US Championship. That match alone earns Piper a spot on my list.
4. Magnum TA (2 times) - The US Championship is pretty much a secondary title now, more meant for the second tier wrestlers to fight for. However, the NWA used it as a stepping stone for the World Championship. When Magnum arrived in Crockett Promotions, fresh off his successful stint in Bill Watts' Mid South, he quickly won the US Title off Wahoo McDaniel. His feud with the Four Horsemen, and particularly Tully Blanchard for the US Championship was to be a primer for his eventual World Championship run. A car wreck ruined those plans, but Magnum TA remains one of the most popular US Champions in the title's NWA history.
3. Ricky Steamboat (4 times) - Ricky Steamboat was the biggest, brightest youngster on the NWA roster in the late seventies. He was paired up in a feud with a cocky youngster named Ric Flair and went on to beat Flair for the TV title before achieving great success both as a tag team champion (6 times) and the US Champion (3 times). He was one of the most successful NWA wrestlers in the promotion until his defection to the WWF in 1985. Steamboat returned to the NWA in 1989 and finally won the title that always eluded him, the World Heavyweight Championship. He held almost every belt the NWA had to offer and is the second best wrestler to ever hold the US title.
2. Ric Flair (6 times) - As I mentioned before, the US Championship was used as a stepladder to the World Championship. No example is better than the man who went on to be the greatest NWA World Champion of all time. When he entered the promotion, Flair won the TV Championship before breaking his back in a plane crash in 1976. He rehabilitated and returned six months later before winning his first US Championship the next year. Crockett was grooming Flair to be the top star in the NWA and he went on to hold the title on five different occasions over the next three years (a Flair/Valentine title exchange is unrecognized by the WWE for some reason) before finally reaching the top of the mountain when he won the World Championship in 1981. He later held the belt a sixth time when he beat Konnan in 1996. He is, without argument, the best wrestler to ever hold the US Championship.
1. Lex Luger (5 times) - Luger holds the record for the longest title reign, as he held the belt for 523 days (May 22, 1989 to October 27, 1990). He went on to win the World Championship but he was, just as Flair before him, groomed for it with the United States Championship. Luger arrived in the NWA as a highly sought after free agent and immediately joined the Four Horsemen. His first feud was with Nikita Koloff, who he won his first US Championship from. He held the belt for 138 days before dropping it to Dusty Rhodes in a cage match. He quit the Horsemen and started after Flair for the World Championship but never came out on top. He turned his attention to former friend, Horsemen Barry Windham and won his second US title which he would hold for 76 days before losing to Freebird Michael Hayes. He won the title back 15 days later and began his 523 day reign. Stan Hanson won the belt from Luger but Luger regained it after 50 days and held it for 210 days this time around. Luger finally won his first World Championship when Flair left WCW and a match was setup to name a new champion. When Luger beat Barry Windham for the World Championship, he vacated the US Championship, which he held four times for a combined 947 days (2 ½ years). He won the belt one last time in 1998, when he beat Bret Hart during the nWo angle for a 1-day title reign. Steamboat and Flair are the better wrestlers but The Total Package is the greatest United States Champion of all time.
Julian Bond
HONORABLE MENTIONS
Shelton Benjamin - No offense to MVP, whom I almost put on this list for his recent near 1 year run with the belt in 07'-08', but Benjamin's more recent run with the strap displayed the old school "No. 2 guy behind the World Champ" mentality that should be associated with the title. Not sure what the living hell is still holding the guy back from shattering the glass ceiling for main-eventing, but he proved a great deal more in his almost year-long reign going against the likes of Matt Hardy, MVP, and on occasion, The Undertaker.
Harley Race - The man only held the title once, but you gots to give a little bit of play here to the man who was the first to hold the title back in 75'.
Magnum T.A. - I only experience this man's work through the power of DVDs and WWE online, but his crazy-ass feud with Four Horseman Alumni Tully Blanchard over the U.S. Title was awesome to watch and the guy's always seemed like he was like "the All American" (especially with his insane old school mustache). So it was fitting that he was one of the best title holders.
5.Steve Austin - The future "Stone Cold" was an absolute beast as U.S. champ back in the day. After watching a good ton of matches that he had against greats like The Great Muta and Ricky Steamboat, I saw how great of a technical wrestler he really was in comparison to the straight-up brawling style he mostly displayed in his later "Stone Cold" days. Pairing this with his near year-long sole title reign and his massive later success at the top, I say that is Austin is one of the best US champs ever.
4.Chris Benoit - Benoit's title reigns may have not been the most memorable, especially because I honestly had to think for a minute about when he actually had them, but I credit the man for successfully brining the title back the limelight after being buried for so long. After being a horribly excellent opponent for Eddie Guererro in the finals of the U.S. Title tournament when it was brought out of retirement, Benoit always hovered around the title picture and was a great long standing champ with defending the belt on a lot of occasions and helped keep the belt relevant even when it was just used as good opener of a PPV.
3.Diamond Dallas Page - I honest to goodness think that DDP is one of the most underrated champs ever. Sure the guy was old (by wrestling standards) and wasn't the greatest grappler in the world, but the dude provided myself some fantastic memories with his U.S. Title defenses. His feud with Raven and Chris Benoit were some of the best matches I've ever seen from WCW back in the day. From the Triple Threat matches to the Street Fights, DDP always defended his belt like it was something worthwhile. I had such high hopes for the belt after seeing it fought over with DDP as champ, but I wept when I saw it's value drop down significantly after Goldberg sadly won it (great at the time, but the man seriously didn't need it). Despite this, DDP was still awesome as champ though.
2.Ric Flair - After seeing Flair defend the belt multiple times early in his career before his tons and TONS of World Title reigns, it was plain as day to see that the U.S. Title was a perfect tool in leading Ric to his future path of greatness. So essentially if Flair didn't bust his butt off defending the U.S. Title, he may have not reached his height of success as fast as he did. Flair helped define the belt as it should be, which is a true #2 ranking amongst everyone in the company only second to the World Champ.
1.Lex Luger - Honestly didn't religiously watch WCW in the 80s as a kid cause I was purely hooked on the wacky antics of the WWF, but every single time I tuned in during the late 80s I ALWAYS seemed to see Luger with the U.S. Title around his waist. So when I think of the title now, I automatically think of Lex Luger. He held it multiple times and looking at his past lengths of every reign, always seemed to have the title won in a 3 year span. He too wasn't the best wrestler in the world, but he made the belt seem like a must-have next to the World Title and that feat in itself is a good claim to fame for being one of the best U.S. champions.
Ryan Byers
HONORABLE MENTIONS
David Flair - I'm probably going to get a lot of flack for this one, but I LOVED the angle in which David Flair held the United States Title. I love it because I don't think I've ever seen so many supposedly "smart" fans get worked and give an angle exactly the reaction that bookers wanted it to get . . . pure, unadulterated hatred for David as the undeserving titleholder.
Midnight Express (Bobby Eaton & Stan Lane) - Most people forget that a United States Tag Team Title existed, and I doubt that we'll ever get a Top 5 column to sing its praises. As such, I figured that I would use this opportunity to give a nod to the Midnights' work with those straps, which produced as many awesome matches as their reigns with the World Tag Team Titles did.
Bobo Brazil - A lot of people don't realize that WWE had a United States Title prior to 2003. In fact, such a belt existed in the 1960's and 1970's, and its most prolific holder was Bobo Brazil. Bobo was a true pioneer for African Americans in professional wrestling, and he was one of the most popular WWE (or rather WWWF) performers of the period behind perpetual world champion Bruno Sammartino. And, if you want to get technical, he did also hold the Mid-Atlantic Wrestling United States Title that the current WWE version presumably traces its roots back to.
5.John Cena - For years in WCW, the announcers put over the idea that the United States Champion was the de facto number one contender, the man who was supposed to be right behind the World Heavyweight Champion in terms of skill. After a while, that concept was completely thrown out the window, and, around the same time, secondary championships in wrestling promotions ceased being a way to actually elevate wrestlers and instead turned in to a means to generate feuds that killed time before the REAL stars showed up. Perhaps the last great example of the US Champion being a legitimate number two guy who went on to become a main event level performer was John Cena. Cena was synonymous with the strap in 2004, beating the Big Show for it in front of an ultra-hot Wrestlemania XX crowd, feuding over it with Booker T. in a best of five series, and even briefly dropping it to Carlito in a move that gave the latter guy instant credibility. Nowadays, Cena is perhaps the most popular man in all of professional wrestling, and can be traced directly back to his US Title reigns.
4.Roddy Piper - People who only watched wrestling during the Monday Night Wars are probably asking why I chose to acknowledge Piper when he only had a two week reign, beating Bret Hart and losing to Scott Hall in ugly, ugly matches. However, there was a Roddy Piper before he became an international superstar as a result of the Rock n' Wrestling Connection, and there was a United States Title back then as well. In fact, Piper had two runs as US Champ in the early 1980's, both of them more memorable than his reign in the late 1990's. Piper first defeated Ric Flair for the championship. Though he dropped it to Wahoo McDaniel a bit later in the same year, it wouldn't be much longer until the Hot Scot reclaimed his prize, besting rival Greg Valentine in 1982. Perhaps the most memorable part of this second reign was the fact that it gave rise to the blood feud between Roddy and Valentine, with the Hammer regaining the title by referee's decision when a cut over Piper's ear rendered him unable to continue in a championship defense. That injury became an integral part of the story of the legendary Starrcade dog collar match between the two men, and the rest, as they say, is history.
3.Lex Luger - Like Piper, Luger is one of those guys who got the US Title handed to him during the heyday of Monday Nitro, though his work with the title a decade earlier was significantly better. Between 1987 and 1989, the NWA and Jim Crockett Promotions were seemingly priming Flexy Lexy to become THE man, essentially their answer to Hulk Hogan. As a result, he managed to have four US Title reigns during which he got to defend against some of the best opponents imaginable, including Stan Hansen, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, and Barry Windham. Though he would later become a noted stiff, Luger was more than holding up his end of the bargain during this period and becoming quite the formidable contender for the World Heavyweight Championship. Unfortunately, when he ultimately got the big gold belt, he floundered and never fully recovered. However, you can't fault the build with the United States Championship that got him to that level.
2.Ric Flair - The pattern continues, as Flair won the United States Title against Konnan in 1996 but was actually a far more prolific champion in another era. It was in the late 1970's and 1980 that Flair first started to take hold in the Carolinas, and it was largely a result of his United States Title runs in that territory. Though he initially defeated Bobo Brazil for the title, Flair's more famous championship feuds came against former tag team partner Greg Valentine, the legendary Mr. Wrestling II, and Jimmy Snuka, who was a violent brawler and not yet the cartoon that he would become once Hulkamania took hold of wrestling. Heck, Flair even went toe-to-toe with the original Nature Boy, Buddy Rogers, during this period. Perhaps more important than any of these feuds was the fact that Flair as United States Champion in the late 1970's gave us the FIRST iteration of the Ric Flair/Ricky Steamboat feud that would go on to become one of the greatest rivalries in professional wrestling history.
1.Ricky Steamboat - Of course, Steamer also gets some credit here for the previously referenced Nature Boy/Dragon feud as well as great matches against the likes of Sergeant Slaughter and "Dirty" Dick Slater. What is it, though, that gives Steamboat the edge over Flair for the top spot? Remember that pattern that I've mentioned throughout this list? The one in which a guy has an awesome series of US Title reigns in the 70's or 80's and then has a disappointing reign or two in the 90's? Well, Ricky Steamboat bucks that trend. He was an awesome United States Champion in the 1970's, he was an awesome United States Champion in the 1980's, AND he as an awesome United States Champion in the 1990's. Steamboat's final run with the title came in 1994 as part of a feud with a young "Stunning" Steve Austin, and the two men had a series of matches that absolutely put Austin on the map as a singles worker. For longevity as a US Champion, awesome matches throughout his various reigns, and helping to create the biggest star in wrestling history in the process, Ricky Steamboat takes top honors from me.
Larry Csonka
HONORABLE MENTIONS
Harley Race - The first ever gets some love.
Greg Valentine - Great feuds with Piper and Flair get this two-time champion an honorable mention
Tully Blanchard/Magnum TA - For their I QUIT CAGE MATCH ALONE!
5. Roddy Piper - Roddy Piper was the perfect kind of guy to old thee US Title, that's both a good thing and a bad thing. But the facts are that Piper could talk, he could draw and to his credit has one of the greatest US Title matches ever under his belt, the dog collar match with Valentine. Roddy Piper rules, unfortunately he is nothing but the fat guy in a kilt to new fans.
4. Midnight Express (Bobby Eaton & Stan Lane) - I swear to God that Byers and I share the same brain at times, because every time I think I have something cool or out of the box to add, that fucker beats me to it. But yes, there were US Tag Team Titles, they weren't actually needed, but they were fine to have around. But the Midnight Express had great matches for those titles, and Cornette made them seem just as important as the world tag titles. God I miss those days.
3. Ric Flair - Everyone always talks about Flair's world titles, but most don't even realize that the man was a 6-time US Champions, and had great feuds and matches with Greg Valentine, Mr. Wrestling II, Bobo Brazil and Jimmy Snuka. And then you add into this that the US Title was the table to where the first serving of Flair vs. Steamboat was on the menu, and you just have to give the man the credit he deserves. Like I said, this is a part of Flair's career that is greatly overlooked.
2. Ricky Steamboat - Speaking of Ric Flair, we now come to Ricky Steamboat. Ricky Steamboat grabbed the strap 4-times in his career, and was able to have runs in the 70s, 80s and 90s. In the 70's it was Steamboat vs. Flair, in the 80s it was Steamboat vs. Dick Slater, and in the 90s it was Steve Austin. Steamboat was not only elevated by the US Title, but with the US Title he helped elevate a guy that would become one of the biggest stars the industry would ever see. Steamboat is the man, no doubt, but this week, I give credit to someone most wouldn't.
1. Lex Luger - That's right kids, FLEXY LEXY takes the top spot this week. The man had FIVE US Title runs, including the monster run of 500+ days in 1989-90. So much talk about the US Title beign a steppingstone to bugger and better things back in the day are true, and in Luger's care. The majority of his runs were with and against the Horsemen and also as a part of his development as he rose to the top. Sure it took Flair leaving for him to get the title, but he was being groomed for the big title through the various US Title runs, that was obvious. Plus, Luger takes too much shit to be honest with you, so giving him the top spot is a little "thanks" to him. I know the haters will come out, but as we talked about last week, Luger wasn't nearly as bad as most thought. Shitty booking didn't help him.
Aaron Hubbard
HONORABLE MENTIONS
Eddie Guerrero - Where's the love for this guy? The first holder of the modern incarnation of the title, Eddie and the U.S. Title were a perfect match. It helped Eddie get to the main event scene, and Eddie helped to elevate the prestige of the belt.
Magnum T.A. - Should have been a world champion, but tragedy struck. Still, he didn't overstay his welcome at the U.S. level like Luger and had the best U.S. Title match ever with Tully Blanchard.
Ric Flair - Flair is the MAN. However, I feel that the next five guys gained more prestige/gave more prestige to the U.S. Title.
5.Steve Austin - Austin's run in the WWE went from "lower midcard" to "jobber to the stars" to "THE TOP GUY" rapidly fast, and we never really got to see him run at the midcard level there. However, in WCW, his peak was being the U.S. Champion, and he was awesome in that role. Austin's ring skills were almost at a peak, and he could have good matches with anyone. Still, I don't think anybody could have guessed that he would as big as he would get by watching his stuff here.
4.John Cena - Having to follow up a six month reign of the Big Show is not an easy thing to do. That's not a diss on the big man, but frankly, he's above the U.S. Title and it shows from the lack of defenses. However, John Cena served to bring the U.S. Title to the forefront in 2004. With the hated JBL dominating the WWWE Title scene, Cena was the most popular "champ" on Smackdown. And both Cena and the title helped each other. Don't believe me? "The Champ is HERE!" started with the U.S. Title, and Cena's spinner belt was once the most popular replica belt. That's a LOT of cash.
3.Lex Luger - I don't hate Luger. He was a hard worker in his prime and lumping him in with talentless lugs like SID and WOYAH is just not fair. Was he carried to his best matches by Ric Flair? Yeah, but so was Sting, and people think he's great. That said, I feel his 500 Days + reign is an example of how Luger was misused. The U.S. Title should have been a stepping stone, not a "major career accomplishment". Much like Flair, I think that many of Luger's U.S. Title reigns occured when he was at a world title level.
2.Ricky Steamboat - I feel the U.S. Title is perfect for three kinds of wrestlers: young guns moving up, old vets moving down, and career midcarders. While Steamboat was a very good world champion, I don't think it's out of line for me to say that there is a good reason he only had one short reign. As a pure wrestler, Steamboat is almost without peer, but his promos are....Oh sorry, I feel asleep just thinking about it. Steamboat's early U.S. Title reigns set him up as a big star, and in the twilight of his career, he was able to put over young guys, especially Steve Austin.
1.Chris Benoit - When I hear "U.S. Champion", I immediately think "Chris Benoit".I think the later reigns showcase why he was a perfect U.S. Champ. Benoit was a world class worker, but didn't have the charisma to be a long-term World Champ. By putting the belt on Benoit, you instantly legitimize the prestige of the belt, and you have a Champion that can carry young guys to great matches and give them an education on working at a higer level. Since I don't think he worked very well as World Champ, this was the perfect place for him. The U.S/IC level is the perfect place for great workers with little to charisma to show their strengths and hiding their weaknesses.
Jeremy Thomas
HONORABLE MENTIONS
Rick Rude - The Ravishing One held the title for 378 days, the second-longest single title reign of all-time behind only Luger. That gets him some love from me.
Roddy Piper - I love Piper, and the fact that he became the first Undisputed NWA United States Champion with his first reign gets him some love here.
Montel Vontavious Porter - I wanted to put MVP inside the Top Five, as he held the title just twenty-two days shy of a year in an era where title reigns come and go quickly, but the ones above are too significant to put him over.
5.Magnum T.A. - Magnum T.A. will always be the man I immediately associate with the United States Title, because it was as high as he ever got even though he was clearly destined for more. He was one of the all-time greats and because of the fact that I think of him first, the championship seems more important to me than it sometimes seems to be to others. That's a high compliment to Magnum.
4.Ricky Steamboat - Okay, seriously people...it's Steamboat. How could he NOT be on this list? The guy's feud over the title with Flair was absolutely legendary, and it's common fodder for this column due to how great it was. Then he came back to the belt in the 90's and feuded with Steve Austin over it. When it comes to United States Champions, there's few people who did more with the opportunities the belt gave them then Ricky, and he will undoubtedly be the star of any "History of the United States Title" set that the 'E might ever decide to put out. (Note to the WWE: Put that set out. Seriously.)
3.Blackjack Mulligan - In the earliest days of the United States title, few people were associated with the belt more than Blackjack Mulligan. He won the title from Paul Jones in March of '76, held it for a then-record 217 days and ended up trading it back and forth with Jones a few times until he dropped it to Bob Brazil. By the time he did so he had held the belt three times, the last time for another 200+ tenure. He would come back two years later and take the title from Ricky Steamboat, holding it for another 77 days until he lost it for the last time. Blackjack deserves more love than he gets, and I wanted to give him some props here.
2.Ric Flair - When it comes to people who rocked the United States title, Ric Flair is one of the first and most enduring names that come to mind. Flair feuded with some of the greatest names in the business over the US Title, and in doing so he really shot upward. Sure, you can talk about how he's more important as a World Champion than he was as a US Champion, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve some serious credit for his time at the United States Championship level that ultimately made him ready to become the legend we all know him to be.
1.Lex Luger - Lex Luger does get a lot of shit, and I think a good portion of it is warranted personally. But that doesn't mean that his record 523 days as United States Champion from May of 1989 through October of 1990 isn't a phenomenal achievement, nor that his five runs with the belt aren't incredibly noteworthy. Luger's a guy who I think would have done just fine if he'd never been pushed to the moon and the U.S. Title level always seemed like a perfect fit for him. That may seem like less than stellar compliment, but I disagree and think it's a testament to how well he did with this particular strap around his waist.
Michael Bauer
HONORABLE MENTIONS
Rick Rude - Holding the title for over a year, he deserves mention for the second longest reign in history.
Harley Race - The first never gets credit, he does here.
MVP - He held the title for almost a year, which is unheard of in today's day in age.
5.Ricky Steamboat - Steamboat is most know for his feud with Flair, which created some great matches in the 1980's, but they also had some feud over the title a decade earelier. Overall, he held the title four tmes and in three different decades. This is one thing that no other United States champion can say, oitside of Ric Flair.
4.John Cena - Like it or not, John Cena was the prototypical United States Champion with his reigns in 2004. Him holding the title made him into a legit contender for the World Title and the Main Event status he currently holds today. He won the title in front of a hot crowd at WrestleMania XX and instantly blew his stock off the charts.
3.Chris Benoit - Everyone forgets that Benoit has held the title on five occasions. That is tied for the most recognized reigns of all time. The sad part is that his last reign accounted for 62% of the total days of his title reigns (222 of 357 days). But Benoit was an amazing United States Champion with his last reign, eventually losing to MVP.
2.Ric Flair - He has five offical regins and a 6th the WWE doesn't recognize for whatever reason they have. Flair was the first man to hold the belt and use it as a platform to bigger and better things and it lasted a long, long time.
1.Lex Luger - Yeah, hate to admit it, but Lex Luger was the best. He has the most reigns, he has the longest reign at 523 days, most by around 150 days over Rick Rude's reign. Yeah, sure, he was misused as champion, but so has a bunch of others with more noteworthy titles. Luger definitly had what it took to be better than he was, but this title reign was the "second place" prize as it was. Not too bad of a consolation.
So with all said and done, here is the 411 Wrestling's Overall Top 5 United States Champions.
5.John Cena - 5 points (2 4th place votes, 1 5th place vote)
4.Chris Benoit - 10 points (1 1st place vote, 1 3rd place vote, 1 4th place vote, 1 Honorable Mention)
3.Ricky Steamboat - 19 points (1 1st place vote, 2 2nd place votes, 1 3rd place vote, 1 4th place vote, 1 5th place vote)
2.Ric Flair - 23 points (5 2nd place votes, 1 3rd place vote, 1 Honorable Mention)
1.Lex Luger - 31 points (5 1st place votes, 2 3rd place votes)
You guys that keep honoring benoit are f'n retarded. The guy MURDERED his wife and SMALL CHILD!! What part of that do some of you columnists and fans not understand. He deserves NO honors and should not be on any of these lists. I keep seeing "separate the wrestler from the man". I hate to break it to you guys but THEY ARE THE SAME F'N PERSON!!! The guy whose matches you keep praising is the same asshole that brutally killed his family and then himself. He's a coward and a piece of scum. Not to mention Aaron Hubbard is a total moron not just because he honored a piece of murdering shit at the best US champ ever, but because Benoit is FAR from the best US champ ever. haha. That is just Mr. Hubbard honoring his all time favorite anytime he can. He KILLED his family people. Stop recognizing his accomplishments and certainly stop talking about how great he was without mentioning what a total asshole he ended up being. I'm 32 and have been a wrestling fan since i was 5 years old, which is 27 years of watching wrestling. I've been watching since before Hulk Hogan won his first world title and I must say Benoit has always been HORRIBLY overrated. Whether you work rate monkeys admit it or not, u need mic skills to be a world champion and truly transcendent. Benoit should have never been a world champ to begin with. Yeah he was good in the ring but I would argue that Eddie was better (a real guy we should honor), Shelton Benjamin is better, Shawn Michaels is better, Ricky Steamboat, Ric Flair, Bret Hart (who had much better mic skills than Asshole Benoit), Mr. Perfect, etc ( I could go on for a while). Benoit is HIGHLY overrated and a piece of shit. Stop giving him honors. He lost that right.
Posted By: Benoit is scum (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 12:21 AM
What, no Orlando Jordan?!
Posted By: Ron Mexico (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 01:06 AM
Couldn't agree more with the above poster
Posted By: Benoit (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 01:16 AM
as much as it sucks, Benoit will never be forgotton in the ring like it or not. I hate Benoit for what he did but I also respect what he brought to the ring and erasing what he did would be a blemish to the world of professional wrestling. You only think he was overrated because of what he did outside the ring. No way was Mr. Perfect or Shelton Benjamin better than Benoit. And being mentioned in a top five list isn't really an honor. They aren't giving him a reward. They are looking at what guys did with the US Title and it just happens to be that Benoit did a lot with the championship.
Posted By: calm down (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 01:18 AM
You guys that keep honoring benoit are f'n retarded. The guy MURDERED his wife and SMALL CHILD!! What part of that do some of you columnists and fans not understand. He deserves NO honors and should not be on any of these lists. I keep seeing "separate the wrestler from the man". I hate to break it to you guys but THEY ARE THE SAME F'N PERSON!!! The guy whose matches you keep praising is the same asshole that brutally killed his family and then himself. He's a coward and a piece of scum. Not to mention Aaron Hubbard is a total moron not just because he honored a piece of murdering shit at the best US champ ever, but because Benoit is FAR from the best US champ ever. haha. That is just Mr. Hubbard honoring his all time favorite anytime he can. He KILLED his family people. Stop recognizing his accomplishments and certainly stop talking about how great he was without mentioning what a total asshole he ended up being. I'm 32 and have been a wrestling fan since i was 5 years old, which is 27 years of watching wrestling. I've been watching since before Hulk Hogan won his first world title and I must say Benoit has always been HORRIBLY overrated. Whether you work rate monkeys admit it or not, u need mic skills to be a world champion and truly transcendent. Benoit should have never been a world champ to begin with. Yeah he was good in the ring but I would argue that Eddie was better (a real guy we should honor), Shelton Benjamin is better, Shawn Michaels is better, Ricky Steamboat, Ric Flair, Bret Hart (who had much better mic skills than Asshole Benoit), Mr. Perfect, etc ( I could go on for a while). Benoit is HIGHLY overrated and a piece of shit. Stop giving him honors. He lost that right.
Posted By: Benoit is scum (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 12:21 AM
Someone's having their period.
Posted By: Iced Coffee (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 01:21 AM
Yawn
Posted By: Bob (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 01:33 AM
"No way was Mr. Perfect or Shelton Benjamin better than Benoit."
Actually, Curt Henning was better than Chris Benoit
Posted By: Shawn S Lealos (Registered) on July 01, 2009 at 01:39 AM
Glad to see Lex at the top of the list. Really underrated wrestler these days -- I personally enjoyed many of his matches from his days as the Narcissist to his return to WCW. I only finally lost interest in him when he turned on Goldberg and joined the nWo which made no sense whatsoever.
Posted By: y2kev (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 01:43 AM
Barry Windham and Nikita Koloff? HELLO???
IDIOTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh and btw the best matches ever for the US title are magnum ta vs nikita koloff best of seven and steve austin vs ricky steamboat, bash at the beach 94. My saying this doesn't make it true but video and eyeballs don't lie.
Posted By: Darren Runne (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 02:32 AM
To weigh in on this...
I commend 411 for remaining impartial, and answering questions/making statements as honest as they can.
This will sound cold, and I hate to be this way, but what Chris Benoit did has ZERO bearing on whether or not he should be on a list of top five United States champions.
The criteria for that is to take EVERYONE (both the saints, run of the mill sinners, and murderers) and then weigh things like in-ring ability, charisma, mic skills, length/number of reigns, overness, memorability, and whatever else you choose to use for your guidelines. And while we're at it, the same goes for any Hall of Fame or anything to that extent as well. Jimmy Snuka's in the Hall of Fame and people aren't upset about that, are they?
Yes, Chris Benoit did something horrible, and in no way should anyone try to brush it under the rug. But, neither should they his wrestling career.
The way I look at it is that in his lifetime, he gave millions of wrestling fans memorable moments and lots of enjoyment. He also stole two people's lives. Now those things do NOT equal out... but they are now both simply a statement of fact. Censoring that from your memory, or erasing it from DVD's and websites, doesn't make it any less true in either direction.
And I like the top five list, although I'm surprised there's no love for Raven. I associate him with the US Title more than most anyone else for some reason..
Posted By: Blackbird 13 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 02:39 AM
Someone's having their period.
Posted By: Iced Coffee (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 01:21 AM
LMFAO............you took the words from me
Posted By: Melissa (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 02:49 AM
OH yeah, and his feud with Chuck Palumbo in 2000 was the real deal!
Posted By: DHX (Registered) on July 01, 2009 at 02:59 AM
MVP has the title for over a year and hardly gets a mention? This whole article fails.
Posted By: iomis (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 03:38 AM
Hmm, most 32 year olds I know don't type like that. They tend to have some coherence, not a manic keyboard-smashing like we witnessed above.
Great list as always, glad to see some Magnum'n'Tully mentions!
Posted By: CanadianCrippler (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 03:43 AM
benoit was the best us champion in wwe. like it or hate it.
Posted By: Guest#3341 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 03:46 AM
Not on my period. Just pointing out that being a good wrestler does not erase how evil that man is. Also, calling him the best US champion of all time is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I'll bet most of the columnists would list him as one of the top 5 WWE champions of all time too, which is also ridiculous. I've been a fan for 27 years like I mentioned and Benoit brought more disgrace to the sport I love than anyone ever. And its not even close. And I NEVER see NFL columnists mention OJ when compiling lists. And he wasn't even convicted of murder! He was found not guilty yet sports columnists have the sense not to glorify what OJ did on the football field because you know he probably killed his ex-wife. Again, Benoit was a very good in-ring worker. But thats it. He had negative charisma and no mic skills. Never should have gotten near the world title. Solid upper mid carder but thats about it. But like I said above, i bet 80% of columnists and IWC fans would rank Benoit in their top 5 WWE champs of all time. haha. Even after he kills his family you guys extoll the great virtues of the almighty murderer. New flash, the guy that murdered his family is the same one that had those great matches you all love. Also, I've read some people make excuses for him, like oh its the concussions or steroids, etc. He is far from the only wrestler to suffer many concussions or abuse steroids or other drugs and if memory serves me correct he's the ONLY one that murdered his wife and young son. Not one other wrestler has ever done it and if you tell me that no other wrestler had the same stress, anguish, concussions, etc that he did then you are a moron.
Posted By: Benoit is scum (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 03:57 AM
Putting John Cena and MVP in "Top US Champions" failing to realize that THAT IS NOT THE US TITLE!!! Vince did not create, nor had anything to do with its success. They were WWE Intercontinental-light Champions.
-Alex
Posted By: Alex Mattis (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 04:09 AM
What Chris Benoit did was unforgivable and it should never be forgotten. Alot of people want to forgett about chris benoit and never watch the mans wrestling again and this is fine if that is how you choose to deal with this tragedy.
However by demonising benoit as an uncaring and unfeeling monster as many people have done you just sweap the tragedy under the carpet move on and apply no responsiblity to culpability to wrestling culture.
Chris benoit was involved in severse hardcore matches and suffered from serious concusions he also suffered from a severely difficult wrestling programmes. Now i know that this does not lead to problems for all wrestlers but benoits death was mearly the latest and most severe in a huge bunch of wrestling tragedies.
Over the last 10 years so many wrestlers have died younger then they should, many have commited suicide and some (not just benoit) have killed inocent people in the process. If we continue to just say that these people were bad crazy people and wrestling had nothing to do with it we will never move on and move forward.
Benoit was as much a victim as a criminal and if we actually took the time after these tragedies to look at the problems then maybee we can do something about it.
However this may mean changing the wrestling product to make it more technical and less hardcore, giving wrestlers breaks and treating them like normal human beings and hey its much better to take the attitude that benoit was a cold calculating monster and just sit there on our high horse guit free. Enjoy watching wrestlers shortern there lives in the ring for our entertainment and when one of these wrestlers ends up dead in a hotel room we can say it was his fault for messing with drugs shake it off and carry on doing nothing.
Posted By: awindos (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 04:53 AM
Pretending that Chris Benoit never existed won't change what happened. I still haven't watched a match of his since the tragedy and I would agree that he can never be honored in any hall of fame situation, but prior to June 24, 2007 he one of the best professional wrestlers in the world and I see nothing wrong with acknowledging the existence of that period of time.
In the twenty plus years that I've been a wrestling fan I can say without a doubt that the conclusion of Wrestlemania XX was the most triumphant and emotional moment I've ever witnessed within this "fake" sport. It's unbelievably sad how the passage of time has robbed the purity from that memory, but that doesn't mean I can't maintain my comprehension of what it once represented.
When we recognize Chris Benoit's accomplishments within the ring, we aren't condoning his actions. We are simply placing him within the context of history. To deny his career would be like denying his crimes; his acts against his wife and son are a black eye that the industry and all of its fans must bear. We remember Chris Benoit the wrestler, we remember Chris Benoit the time-bomb, we remember Chris Benoit the murderer.
Posted By: 'Stache Player (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 04:55 AM
"No way was Mr. Perfect or Shelton Benjamin better than Benoit."
"Actually, Curt Henning was better than Chris Benoit"
Umm No he actually was not..... there is a big diffrence from being great ( Curt Henning) and one of the very best ever (Benoit).
Posted By: WhatTheHell (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 06:28 AM
Why doesn't Rick Rude get any love?
Posted By: John (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 06:51 AM
Iced Coffee that is a completely asinine response. What a fool you are.
Posted By: Guest#5584 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 07:20 AM
Chris Benoit's was not in control of his actions because brain was destroyed due to frequent concussions and/or drug use. His damaged brain failed him and while he should have taken better care of himself, I put this tragedy in the same category with someone with a diseased heart having a heart attack while driving resulting in deaths. He was not the murderer and coward you paint him out to be.
Posted By: Matt (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 07:42 AM
(These guys were indentifiable with the US title back when the title was important, and put on classic matches as well)
5. MVP
(The only essential U.S. Champion of the Modern era)
Oh, and yes, Curt "Mr. Perfect" Hennig is better than Chris Benoit... Maybe not a better U.S. Champion, but just better in general.
Posted By: Tim Haught (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 08:01 AM
Just for the record, Eddie Guerrero is my favorite wrestler. Not Chris Benoit.
Posted By: Chief Runs With Beer (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 09:20 AM
Did everyone forget about Barry Windham?
He had great matches with everyone during his U.S. title reign. From Bam Bam Bigelow to Dusty Rhodes to Brad Armstrong.
Why did he get the Benoit treatment here?
Posted By: Guest#4977 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 09:41 AM
NI-KI-TA
NI-KI-TA
Posted By: The Russian Nightmare (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Why is Sting not on this list. How could anyone leave off Jim Duggan and Steve McMichael too
Posted By: skizzy (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 10:28 AM
People are still ignoring Benoit's autopsy reports and going on with the sensationalized version of the story they prefer.
I'm tired of this debate. If you don't want to watch or read about Benoit anymore, I understand, but if others still want to then they should be allowed to without having to defend themselves against you goons anymore.
Posted By: Ernie (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 10:40 AM
Steiner Brothers are the greatest US TAG CHAMPS of all time! Kudos for giving Luger the respect he deserves.
Posted By: Steiner Bro (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 10:47 AM
where is mongo, gen. rection and david flair? COME ON NOW. your list are all shams without these all time greats.
Posted By: jd (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 10:58 AM
where is
rick rude
sting
ddp
goldberg
wahoo mcdaniel?
Posted By: rey (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 11:01 AM
Forget the ridiculous Benoit arguement for a second.
How is there so little love for MVP here? The guy held the belt for that long and put on great matches. He treated the belt like it was the most important thing in the world and his feud with Matt Hardy was some of the most entertaining TV in years. What the hell?
MVP is one thing, but how was there only one mention of DDP in the article? This is a guy that owned every crowd in every city when he was champ. When Hogan had the main event tied up and no one new ever got a shot, the US Title was THE belt in WCW to go after. His feud with Raven made me an instant fan and the Triple Threat with Benoit and Raven is a match that I could rewatch over and over.
The lack of appreciation for those two guys caused to to not even be able to finish this article.
Posted By: Jeff (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 11:15 AM
I thought this was about the best US champions not about Chris Benoit and the murder suicide.
Posted By: Dean Chan Loves Coldplay (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 11:19 AM
The only people who make a big deal out of Benoit are the 411 commenters.
I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.
Posted By: Jesus (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 11:35 AM
"But like I said above, i bet 80% of columnists and IWC fans would rank Benoit in their top 5 WWE champs of all time. haha."
You tell em! Afterall, you've been a fan for 47 years, so your opinion must be fact! Just calm down, I'm sure your momma will bring more Pizza Rolls down to your basement clubhouse anytime now.
Posted By: Benoit is Scum is Scum (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 11:39 AM
Steiner Brothers are the greatest US TAG CHAMPS of all time! Kudos for giving Luger the respect he deserves.
Posted By: Steiner Bro (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 10:47 AM
With all due respect, i beg to differ. Midnight Express were the definitive US tag champions.
Posted By: Darren Runne (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 12:01 PM
The conclusion of Wrestlemania XX is one of the most overrated moments ever. MSG was half empty by then.
Posted By: Guest#3127 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 12:03 PM
Benoit is Scum: You're COMPLETELY offbase to say the sports media buries OJ Simpson's accomplishments because of the murder allegations.
It's apparent that you don't watch sports programming too often because anytime they talk about great accomplishments by football players at the pro and college level, Simpson's name comes up. In particular, because he set an NFL mark that may never be broken (2,000 yard season for a running back in just 14 games). So next time you're in rambling mode, you may want to review your facts.
The biggest mistake Vince has made over the past few years has been to pretend Chris Benoit never existed. It's almost as ridiculous as claiming the company has always been "WWE" and that there never was an "F" in the company name (yeah, I'm aware of the "panda bear" lawsuit; but I'm fairly certain they don't require "W-W-F" to be silenced and/or blurred from past programming).
Benoit is a part of some great moments in wrestling even though his ring and persona weren't everybody's cup of tea (I personally wasn't a fan other than his brilliant 2004 Rumble and WMXX matches). He had a critical part in some significant moments in WCW and WWF history that will forever get swept under the rug because Vince is terrified to have the media misconstrue his showing of the footage as "glorifying a murderer."
It's simply another example of Vince talking down to his audience and treating them like they are 5-year-olds who can't decide for themselves whether they're entertained or offended.
Posted By: Brad B (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 12:27 PM
1. Curt Hennig was better than Benoit.
2. No argument with Luger being number 1, but why no more respect for Magnum TA? That guy defined the US title when he held it. Probably because it was before a lot of these "experts" were born.
3. Someone mentioned that OJ "probably" killed his ex-wife. "Probably"???
Posted By: Bad guy (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 12:35 PM
"benoit is scum" would sound a lot less like a troll, if he didn't drop the "haha" comments in there. If he were serious, he wouldn't be laughing.
Posted By: CDL (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Pete Rose bet on baseball, got banned from the league, and became a black mark to the sport. Who would ever honor this guy? Oh yeah ... WWE did just to play off that. Maybe Bud Selig should make a Chris Benoit day at the ballpark. WWE goes out of their way to exploit other sports black marks. Fans shouldn't take WWE's black mark out of their history when they act as disrespectful as they do.
I expected more votes for DDP.
Posted By: Burnout (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 12:38 PM
You actually gave us the results.
Epic win
Posted By: ROHawkeye (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 12:38 PM
lets move on past the beniot tragedy. it was over 2 years ago and its over with. they are recognizing his in ring accomplishments, not his real life. sorry to say but if u ppl look at a column and say "guys honoring benoit are f'n retarded" have no life and nothing better to do then talk down to people who write columns for a living. its called a column because its OPINION!!
Posted By: Matt (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 12:51 PM
The conclusion of Wrestlemania XX is one of the most overrated moments ever. MSG was half empty by then.
Posted By: Guest#3127 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 12:03 PM
.......
Did u even go to Wrestlemania xx? the whole place was packed and cheering for benoit to win the title and he got the ludest pop when he made triple h tap out
Posted By: adrian (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 01:02 PM
Ugh. More Benoit rants. Get over it. This article is about the greatest wrestlers to hold the U.S. title. If the article was about the most compassionate human beings in the world of wrestling then yes, by all means complain if Benoit makes the list.
I also agree that MVP should get a little more love. He's by no means a #1 or #2 but the guy did have a very entertaining U.S. title reign for almost an entire year. He even managed to add more depth to his character when he couldn't wrestle due to his heart problems. #5 sounds about right for MVP.
Posted By: Ron Mexico (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 01:20 PM
benoit should be remembered........he had a long career had great matches and entertained many...........sure what he did was wrong..............but remember.....if you read the reports on his death.........they said he was kind of insane from all the concussions.........which he got entertaining all of us.........and on top of that his doctor was giving him a form of steroids.........now that doesm't justify his actions but it does tell you the man was out of it........insane........had no control.......i mean go back and watch the end of wrestlemania XX.........watch him celebrate with his wife and kid.........look how happy he was..........you could tell he loved them..........it was probably one of the happiest moments in his life.........main event WMXX.......win.......and celebrate with his friend eddie and his wife and kid..........the poor guy went insane performing for us.........the least we could do is remember his in ring work........plus how could you not mention his matches....most were great....and remember........he always had an opponent.........should we forget other wrestlers matches cause benoit was in it???doesn't sound like something a wrestling fan would do...........his outside actions don't change what he did in the ring..........don't get me wrong.......he's a bad man.....but a great wrestler.........
Posted By: Guest#8397 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 01:24 PM
Top US Champions
5.David Flair
4. Konnan
3. One Man Gang--wish I could've signed him to the stud stable, stupid Sullivan and his damn dungeon of doom
2. Steve McMichael--see above, but replace "Sullivan" with "Flair" and the Horsemen, he beat me to it.
1. Hacksaw Jim Duggan--he would've been perfect for the stud stable
well, well, well at least Steve austin held the title.
2.
Posted By: Col. Robert Parker (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 01:28 PM
Who better than Kanyon?
Booker T just gave me the title.
Posted By: Kanyon (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 01:29 PM
In terms of ring work, Benoit was certainly better than Hennig. Hennig's only classic matches in WWF or WCW were against Bret Hart; his loser leaves town match with Flair was mediocre and his match with HBK at SummerSlam 93 was downright disappointing. Benoit, on the other hand, had classic matches with Angle, Hart, HBK, Triple H, Rock, Austin, Sasuke, Jericho, ..., and he was able to carry guys like Kane and Albert to watchable matches. Carrying lesser opponents was not something Hennig did well; his attempt at doing so involved bumping like crazy.
In terms of mic work, Hennig was better than Benoit. There's no question. However, given that most of Hennig's promos were based on him being Mr. Perfect, a gimmick that was handed to him and got him instantly over, it's tough to give him full credit. I'm not sure how successful his promos would have been if he had introduced himself as just Curt Hennig. I mean, does anyone remember any Hennig promos from WCW other than 'Rap is Crap'?
Overall, I'd say Benoit was a better pro wrestler. Had Hennig not had the gimmick of Mr. Perfect, then he would not have achieved nearly the success that he had.
Posted By: Eric von Erich (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 01:30 PM
I'm surprised there weren't more votes for DDP since the belt elevated him so well. Goldberg too, after he won the world title he just repeated his US title run
Posted By: K. Bett (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 01:38 PM
I think someday the entire 411 community should have a discussion on how to view Benoit so we don't have to have the same dam discuss as soon as anyone brings up his existence. Guess what he existed and he did one of the most horrifing things one person can do in life, but that doesn't mean we can't give him credit for what he did in the ring. It's not our right to judge him because whether the man is in heaven or hell he has already been judged.
Posted By: Marco (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 02:00 PM
Greatlists and article. I have always like Lugar and glad to see him get some props. Surprised at the lack of names like Nikita and Magnum on the list.
And for the record, I am pretty sure that no one on this forum is going to change anyone elses opinion on Chris Benoit, one way or the other. Let it go.
Posted By: jdmpjm (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 02:05 PM
my top 5 UNITED STATES CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME.
5. RIC FLAIR
4. MVP
3. MAGNUM TA
2. LEX LUGER
1. CHRIS BENIOT IF HE DIDNT MAKE THAT BONE HEAD MISTAKE, SO INSTEAD I GO WIT RICKY STEAMBOAT
Posted By: donnie (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 02:20 PM
curt hennig was nwa world champ for about a year this was before he became mr perfect,his 60 min match and his championship victory over nick bockwinkel are legendary.so to claim he only made it because of the mr perfect moniker is insane
p.s you also need more than a name to wrestle a classic match like the one curt hennig had with bret hart
Posted By: malky (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 02:37 PM
Chris Benoit's was not in control of his actions because brain was destroyed due to frequent concussions and/or drug use. His damaged brain failed him and while he should have taken better care of himself, I put this tragedy in the same category with someone with a diseased heart having a heart attack while driving resulting in deaths. He was not the murderer and coward you paint him out to be.
Posted By: Matt (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 07:42 AM
Seriously??? Is this Benoit old man postin? Not in control of his actions? I am soo tired of people not putting the blame on Benoit and going with that "brain of an 80 year old with dimension" crap. If he was that bad, he would never have been able to function on a daily basis, let alone wrestle. The guy was a coward, plain and simple.
Posted By: Anthony (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 02:39 PM
Great list here. As far as the whole Benoit thing goes, I felt the same way that "Benoit is scum" feels for a while. Benoit was one of my favorite wrestlers and to find out that he killed his wife and son was extremely disturbing and I hated him for doing something so heinous.
But as the months after the tragedy rolled on and the details started coming in, it soon became clear that Benoit was not a mentally healthy man when he committed these horrible murders. They said his brain resembled an elderly man with alzheimers. That is NOT good. Have you ever been around an elderly man with alzheimers? I have, due to doing voluntar work at an old folks home when I was in high school. They are VERY violent and unreasonable, but seeing as they are old and sickly, they do not pose much of a threat. A man in Benoit's physical condition is EXTREMELY dangerous if he has the mental facilities of an elderly, deranged man.
What reaffirmed that to me is when a few months ago, there was a story about Verne Gagne allegedly killing a man at the old folks home he was living in because his brain was deteriorating. Yet, nobody demonized Verne. Why? Because he's an old, crazy man. He wasn't able to control his actions. Therefore the story was soon forgotten about and swept away and people still to this day mention Gagne without any controversy. But anytime Benoit's name is mentioned, it brings along with it a shit storm of discussion and controversy.
I do not believe that Benoit should be completely forgiven and absolved of his actions because he abused drugs and drove his body over the limit which is what contributed to his brain being so broken down. I understand why the WWE has to erase him from all their productions. It's not good for business to promote a woman and child killer. But websites like this, which are for fans who are "smart" to the business, should be able to mention Benoit as much as they want. It is an independent site not affiliated with the WWE that is for fans of wrestling, past and present. You dont like the mentions of Benoit? Then dont read it. Simple.
Posted By: JJ (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 02:48 PM
Hey von Erich, they were both better than any of your brothers.
Posted By: Bad guy (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 03:19 PM
"curt hennig was nwa world champ for about a year this was before he became mr perfect"
Henning was the AWA Champ, not NWA
Posted By: Shawn S Lealos (Registered) on July 01, 2009 at 03:23 PM
Those who had a problem with Benoit being mentioned, grow up! It's WRESTLING TALK!
Besides, it's about what he did INSIDE THE RING! NOT AT HOME!!!!!
Posted By: The Truth (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 03:33 PM
I would just like to thank Benoit is Scum for totally ruining this article and the discussion for everyone. Shouldn't you be on Yahoo Answers spewing advice on morality out to young girls who don't know if they should kiss their cousins or not or watching Nancy Grace on TV saying "Dad gum Nancy you're right!! They are GUILY, GUILTY, GUILTY!!!!!!!!" In closing, I would just like to say that this was a great article, as most of the Top 5's are.
Posted By: Benoit is Scum...... Is Scum (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 03:38 PM
Chris Benoit's was not in control of his actions because brain was destroyed due to frequent concussions and/or drug use. His damaged brain failed him and while he should have taken better care of himself, I put this tragedy in the same category with someone with a diseased heart having a heart attack while driving resulting in deaths. He was not the murderer and coward you paint him out to be.
Posted By: Matt (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 07:42 AM
Regardless of how I feel about Benoit and whether or not he should be remembered for his in ring work, this is the most asinine statement I have ever read on this sight. To try and state that Benoit is not "the murderer.. you paint him out to be"... what kind of murderer is he? The warm and fuzzy kind? And to compare him to a man that has a heart attack while driving a car is a stretch beyond belief. I guess next you will compare Benoit to a soldier that has killed enemy soldiers during a time of war, or that Benoit is a martyr for all child killers everywhere.
Posted By: Get a clue Matt (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 05:28 PM
It's true, Benoit was the best U.S. Champion.
Posted By: Eddie Guerrero's Ghost (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 05:43 PM
Best U.S. Tag Team Champions
5. Ron Simmons & Big Josh
4. Ivan Koloff & Dick Murdoch
3. The Patriots
2. Ron Garvin & Barry Windham
1. Dick Slater & The Barbarian (duh)
Posted By: Col. Robert Parker (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 05:47 PM
Oh. This argument again. GREAT...
How about we talk about ROH releasing TWO five-star matches on DVD in the past month? WHERE IS JD DUNN
Posted By: The REAL MP (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 05:47 PM
We would like to formally declare that Chris Benoit, is officially the Greatest United States Champion of all-time. This is due to his fabulous work ethic in and out of the ring. He defended the championship against all comers and never backed down from any challenges.
Posted By: WCW Executive Committee (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 05:52 PM
I'll never forget being in Greensboro for Starrcade 85 and the I Quit match between Magnum and Tully for the U.S. Title! I was just a young kid so of course I thought Magnum really did stick that piece of wood in Tully's eye haha :o)
Posted By: Guest#8509 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 05:57 PM
No love for the
Posted By: Muta Mark (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 06:03 PM
I feel the guy who is up in arms about Benoit. I get your point but pelase know that the question didn't imply character. A lot of these guys are addicts, racists, women beaters or just a plan ole fashioned asshole. I don't think he is an all time US Champ myself but his last days don't mean what he did wasn't good in ring as a performer. It means he killed his family and from what I have read the prolonged steroid use damaged his brain so I think it may have not necesarily been evil in intent. Now on the topic of the belt...maybe it is my age..but I really don't view the current title as athe same thing. The US title is NWA/WCW and I just don't see anyone who has had it since 01 as a US champ. It really is an age thing and Luger is probably the guy I most identify with it. Good topic this week...brought back some good memories of watching TBS at 6:05 on a saturday.
Posted By: the get some kid (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 06:24 PM
It is absolutely sickening that anyone would consider the child murderer as an equal among such luminaries as everyone else besides the child murderer mentioned in this column.
Posted By: EZMark (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 06:57 PM
". He's a coward and a piece of scum. "
Really? Would you have the balls to batter your body for 20 years? The balls to override your own survival instinct and hang yourself, having a slow painful death hanging from a nautilus machine? Despicable as his actions might be, it's foolish to label someone as a "coward" when deep down you'd never have the balls to do what he did, assuming you were mentally ill.
Posted By: Guest#9272 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 08:08 PM
Hey Anthony, it's dementia not dimension you ignorant troll. A group of specialists confirmed that Benoit had no control of his actions. But I suppose some obese virgin with a computer would know more about it than scientists would.
Posted By: Spaghett (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 08:10 PM
Gig Young and Albert Salmit were two of the best actors out there and both ended their lives in murder/suicides. No one has stopped showing their movies or their tv shows. Yes Benoit did some awful things in his personal life but in doing this, 411mania had to show impartiality. I commend the site on that.
Posted By: Guest#4620 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 09:11 PM
If we really care about the Benoit tragedy, then we will take a hard, honest look as to what contributed to it. It's far too easy, far too simplistic to just say he was an asshole and a murderer. That is not to say simply blame pro wrestling either. It shouldn't be about blame at all. Instead we should continue to research how the brain and body works, to prevent these kinds of tragedies from happening. Punitive justice or restorative justice. Benoit's wife and kid deserve as much.
Posted By: Guest#6834 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 09:26 PM
glad to see luger getting some credit. he gets beat up on way too much on the web. in the 80s and early 90s luger was a very good and hard working wrestler. he is imo the best us champion ever. good to see him in the top spot here. growing up watching luger in the nwa was a good thing to see. take it from someone who actually was there and watched it every single week. good for lex.
Posted By: flair1111 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 09:34 PM
Yeah, leaving off Sting entirely is pretty shocking.
Posted By: nwa88 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 10:44 PM
Oh for Christ's sake...
411 really needs to start developing an IP ban system, so we don't have to read anymore stupid crap from 13-year old brats who think they know what they're talking about.
People will gladly honour the accomplishments of Jimmy Snuka, Lex Luger, Steve Austin, OJ Simpson, Bing Crosby, and Michael Jackson, despite any sort of controversy surrounding their respective lives. Why in the hell can't the same happen for Benoit?
Because the media didn't hump the crap out of any scandal like they did the Benoit case. Thus, this little jerk-offs are bitter that their favourite product is diminished even more, and rather than get mad at the media for it, they get mad at Benoit, and pretend it's about the actual murder.
It has been proven time and time again that Benoit was not in the right state of mind when it happened. Yet this people continue to stir the pot over and over, because they have nothing better to do with their lives.
And if you want proof, notice how this guy showed up only a few days after the 2nd anniversary of Benoit's death? Gee, what a coincidence!
Posted By: ZeroVX (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 10:45 PM
I do kind of agree with the poster above in one respect -- Chris Benoit was nowhere near the caliber of a wrestler like Ric Flair or Bret Hart, simply due to his lacking mic skills and charisma. He's definitely at least one peg down from all the greats... he's much more a second tier star and I'm sure he'll be much more remembered for the murder then for his wrestling career. Granted, he was always a very good wrestler, but he's nowhere near Top 5 of all time in either WCW or the WWF, I wouldn't put him Top 10 either.
Posted By: nwa88 (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 10:51 PM
I think all the SMART MARKS need to stop getting butthurt so easily over the Benoit Incident.
If Wayne Gretzky was to go and off his family and then pull the trigger on himself, do we disqualify all the records he set in the NHL? By the "dork boys" logic we must!
Bing Crosby beat the shit out of his kids, but you still listen to his music at Christmas dont you SMART MARKS!
Posted By: son of pillman (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 11:28 PM
I'd like to say I agree with Benoit is Scum on some points and disagree on some. I will say some of the responses that try to justify Benoit's horrific crimes are just inexplicable. There is no way to sugarcoat what he did. He committed a terrible crime and as such many people will not have fond memories of him. I'm a medical student and can tell you that while his brain was severely damaged according to what we know, it doesn't excuse his crime. And comparing it exactly to Alzheimer's is very inaccurate in that in Alzheimer's the part of the brain that controls memory and other thought processes is impaired. However, impulse control and the things that cause people to commit horrible crimes is not affected. So Benoit did have brain damage but as the above poster wrote tons of wrestlers probably have similar damage and have not committed the same acts. Some people can watch him with no problem and thats fine and some like the above guy obviously cannot. But I will say that justifying his actions and saying he wasn't thinking clearly is no excuse. Its been shown that ANY person that commits murder and other horrible crimes has some type of brain abnormality. Thats why most people aren't murderers. Inherently, if you lose all control and murder someone you have a brain problem. That is not a justification. Otherwise, we could take that to its logical extreme and say we can excuse Ted Bundy because he had a brain deficit. I personally can watch his matches but have zero respect for Benoit. Also, I think Benoit is one of the finest workers I've ever seen BUT to me wrestling is entertainment more than sport. Since its not a legit sport we need to look at what makes a great wrestler. I think there are 3 components-in ring ability, charisma, and mic skills. Benoit excelled in one of those and was dreadful in the other 2, while someone like Hulk Hogan and John Cena excel in 2 areas (although I think both are very underrated workers because they get crowds to care about their matches which makes them good workers just in my opnion). So a great wrestler should be someone who excels at more than just in ring work. As such, Benoit is not a top tier all time great because lets be honest most casual fans could have cared less about him. My friends that are casual fans wanted to see The Rock, Austin, Angle, etc, not Benoit. And again, I understand the view point of the people that can still watch his work BUT I cannot understand at all people that justify his actions or say that because of his concussions he should get a free pass for what he did. That opinion is just reprehensible after what he did.
Posted By: Doc_law (Guest) on July 02, 2009 at 12:53 AM
Shit, everyone has 4goten Matt Hardey.
Posted By: who cares (Guest) on July 02, 2009 at 02:19 AM
How could anyone of overlooked the following:
1. Ray Stevens
2. Johnny Valentine
3. Buddy Rogers
4. Verne Gagne
5. Pat O' Connor
Honorable mention: Bret Hart, Wilbur Snyder, Pat Patterson, Bruno Sammartino, The Sheik
Posted By: cabronte (Guest) on July 02, 2009 at 03:58 PM
U.S. Tag champs. Same vein as my other post. How do you sleep on?...
1. The Original Fabulous Kangaroos
2. The Tolos Brothers
3. Afa & Sika
4. The Brisco Brothers
5. The Fabulous Ones
Honorable Mention: The Fantastics, Barry Windham/Mike Rotonda, The Freebirds (Hayes & Garvin version),Eddie & Dr. Jerry Graham, Hector & Chavo Guerrero.
...what's a matter with you folks? Dontcha know nuttin'?
Posted By: cabronte (Guest) on July 02, 2009 at 09:41 PM
New flash, the guy that murdered his family is the same one that had those great matches you all love.
Posted By: Benoit is scum (Guest) on July 01, 2009 at 03:57 AM
Not to sound like a cold hearted asshole(excuse my french),(and that news isn't a NEW FLASH);Get the pinecone out of your ass,and learn to type.Great list,I don
t think Benoit should be #1 but great nontheless.I respect Benoit but do not put him in THE HUMANE SOCIETY'S FAVORITE WRESTLERS.Benoit knew what he was doing but we should focus on teh wrestling!Whoever this Benoit os scum guy is needs to stop being so self righteous and respect others opinions.
Thank you for the column 411mania guys!
Posted By: Coop (Guest) on July 02, 2009 at 11:35 PM
The best US champ ever was always Jim Duggan.
Posted By: Guest#4683 (Guest) on July 03, 2009 at 02:33 PM
US Tag Champs! Byers and Csonka RULE! *Ahem* Growing up as an NWA fan, I'd have to say that Nikita should've gotten more love on this list. That said, what Byers said about Cena may be true for a long time, as it will be a while before a US Champ is treated as a true default #1 contender.
Posted By: Ryder (Guest) on July 05, 2009 at 09:08 PM