411 Fact or Fiction 07.02.09: Edge And Jericho As Champs, Taz To TNA, HHH vs. Orton, More!

Posted by Larry Csonka on 07.02.2009

Week TWO HUNDRED and THIRTY-SEVEN features Jeremy Thomas, Owain Brimfield and discussion of TNA’s Spin Cycle becoming a real TV show!

Welcome back to another week of 411 Fact or Fiction: Wrestling Edition! This week we have TWO men stepping up to the challenge as Owain Brimfield and Jeremy Thomas step into the 411 Arena to do battle in this week's edition of Fact or Fiction!

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1. The HHH vs. Randy Orton feud is dying a slow death.



Jeremy Thomas: FICTION: If only because this implies it is still alive. They're keeping it going right now sure, but that just means that this thing is a bigger zombie than the entire Romero trilogy, limping along with a haggard moan in search of new life to destroy. This feud has excited precisely no one, and the injection of John Cena into the title picture shows that even 'E's Creative knows how dead it is. The problem is that they've been feuding with each other since January. That's right...they've been feuding for going on seven freaking months now, with occasional time off for 'H to relax with his family while Orton and Batista meandered their way through a feud. This feud is beyond dead, it is now undead, and it's high time for someone to decapitate it and move 'H onto someone else while Orton battles with Cena. Sure, Orton/Cena is something we've seen before, but at least it would be different.

Owain Brimfield: FICTION: It's already dead, and has been since Wrestlemania and their turgid attempt at a main event. As if that match weren't sufficient writing on the wall, while the 'E insists on allowing the Barberrior to stand tall regardless of Orton's actions (the finish of their match at The Bash being a case in point), it's impossible to take the guy seriously as either the champ or the badass he tries so hard to be when Hunter pops right back up and gets the last laugh. Orton's credibility has already been tarnished thanks to his struggle to offload Shane McMahon, and the only time this feud has been interesting has been when Orton has been allowed to get the upper hand. While it would be possible to drag the corpse of the HHH/Orton feud out of the mud through allowing Orton to gain a clean, decisive victory, for the time being it languishes in a painful limbo.

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2. While he is in Bound For Glory PPV preview video and is rumored to be talking with the company again, Bobby Lashley will NOT wrestle for TNA in 2009.



Jeremy Thomas: FACT: I think he'll make a bunch of appearances and I think he might even be a guest enforcer, guest referee or something like that, but I don't see Lashley actually competing in this particular squared circle until at least next year. Lashley is smart and knows his MMA career is starting to take off, and I don't think he wants to do anything that's going to risk seriously injuring him and putting him out of MMA competition for a while. It's clear (to me, anyway) that his passion is currently with his new career path. He'll do stuff for TNA to earn some bucks on the side, don't get me wrong, and TNA will get some good promotion out of it for having a former "World Champion" (hey, in TNA rules the WWECW belt would count) and MMA star involved with them. But when it comes to actually stepping in the ring and wrestling, it won't happen if/until his MMA record starts showing more losses than wins.

Owain Brimfield: FACT: After going 4 and 0 from taking down Bob Sapp, I find it hard to believe Lashley would take a break from his budding MMA career to step into a wrestling role in TNA, particularly at a time when the company seems fiiiiinally poised to make good and elevate their newer generation of talent (Styles, Joe, Daniels, Morgan) thanks to the latest twists and turns of the Main Event Mafia saga. It would make little sense to interject Lashley at this point, and while I'm aware that's never been a previous concern of TNA's, coupled with the fact that the guy has another ring in which to hone his skills these days, I just can't see it happening. Or maybe that's wishful thinking.

2 for 2


3. The Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio feud is the feud of 2009 thus far.

Jeremy Thomas: FICTION: I've absolutely loved the Rey Rey/Jericho feud, don't get me wrong. And I certainly think it's a contender for feud of the year. But for me, the feud of the year to date was the feud between the Undertaker and Shawn Michaels leading up to WrestleMania XXV. It may not have been a drawn-out, extended feud like we tend to know and love, but it had some absolutely beautiful promo work by both men, some great moments and an unbelievable blow-off match at the Grandaddy of Them All. By comparison, Rey Rey vs. Jericho has had some great moments as well--I absolutely LOVED it when Jericho attacked Rey from the crowd wearing a Rey mask, and Rey's double-mask trick was good stuff as well--and some great matches, but Jericho's mic work hasn't been quite as on as it usually is and Rey's no promo guy. I appreciate that it is taking Chris's character in a slightly different direction and he's no longer using hypocrite every third word, but when it comes to rocking the house, Taker vs. HBK rocked just a little bit harder.

Owain Brimfield: FACT: Although the brewing AJ Styles / Samoa Joe feud could well give it a run for its money. It's no secret that since the draft Smackdown has been home of some of the best wrestling that the mainstream has seen in a good long while, and the Jericho/Rey Rey feud has epitomised that. As Larrold is fond of saying, Chris Jericho is on another level right now, and is rapidly solidifying his role as one of the top heels of the decade - and the fact that the feud has frequently included the IC gold as a mitigating factor is doing wonders for a title belt that has lain pretty much stagnant for years. The in-ring action has been pretty much what we expected from two such high-class athletes, and interjecting Rey's mask into the mix has even managed to seem fresh. Here's hoping the feud continues despite the recent turn of events.

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4. TNA's Spin Cycle Web Show would transition well into a TV show for the company.



Jeremy Thomas: FICTION: Spin Cycle works perfectly well as it is...a cheaply-made and occasionally-interesting ongoing web series that allows TNA to play around without the pressures of advertising rates, ratings and so on. Once it became a full-on television show, all sorts of business aspects would come into play and the company would need to start doing stuff to make it a good investment for the TV network that aired it. And business aside, I simply don't think that there's enough demand for a show like this to allow TNA to expand it to a full-on show. Leave it the way it is, and it makes a neat little waste of time I can check out on YouTube when have spare time.

Owain Brimfield: FICTION: I don't think TNA needs another TV show, or even another hour of Impact, right now, particularly after we heard so much talk about how the second hour of Impact would right all the company's wrongs. It certainly did a lot to improve the product, but another hour of TV isn't going to help too much when TNA can't consistently book a productive two-hour slot of Impact. With the addition of the TNA Epics show to their television line up (well worth a watch if you haven't caught it, even if the commercial breaks do tend to derail the flow somewhat), TNA is all set for TV time right now and is doing well to concentrate on the online market with Spin Cycle and their web matches, along with their various other online ventures.

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5. While a surprise, Edge and Chris Jericho winning the tag team titles will do nothing to elevate the titles.



Owain Brimfield: FACT: Vince has shown for some time now that tag team wrestling is way down on the totem pole as far as the WWE is concerned (a fact that TNA irritatingly rams down our throat at every opportunity when we're already well aware their tag division is miles ahead), and despite the addition of Rated Y2J to the tag team roster, this move seems designed purely to retread the good old "tag team partners who don't get along" storyline we've seen a million times before. Of course, it's likely to be a damn sight better than usual giving the caliber of the two performers involved, but it's still geared towards making the titles themselves a prop rather than a legitimate championship, and regardless of the quality of a potential Edge/Jericho feud down the line, the belts themselves are little more than an afterthought in this day and age.

Jeremy Thomas: FICTION: I think this all depends on how they work it. If Edge and Jericho drop the titles right away, then they won't do a damn thing for the belts. On the other hand, if they have Rated Y2J touring the brands for a while and defending the belts against all comers, they're going to be seen as very formidable threats as far as tag team champions and when they finally drop the belts they'll give whoever wins them a serious rub. The only damper on this is the fact that both men are portrayed as opportunists who take the easiest ways out and I don't see the phrase "fighting champions" really being associated with them all that much. But the fact that by their promo on Monday they are going to be moving throughout all the shows with their titles, I can certainly see them elevate the belts...until the 'E remembers that they don't care about tag team wrestling again and crap all over the straps.

3 for 5


6. You are excited that Taz is coming to TNA.

Owain Brimfield: FACT: I've no desire to see The Tazz wrestle again, but the man has proven himself many times over behind the mic, and whether TNA chooses to use him in a manager/enforced type role (as seems to be the way the Joe/Angle story is currently playing out) or as a third man behind the commentary desk (let's face it, Tenay does need some back up against the uber-awesome of Heel DW) it'll be interesting to see what transpires, and it's hard to see them actually cocking anything up regardless of how he's utilized. Just so long as he gets himself a new towel, that one that's been hanging round Joe's neck for weeks must be getting pretty rancid by now.

Jeremy Thomas: FACT: Call it the ECW mark in me, but the prospect of seeing what they're going to do with Taz does excite me quite a bit. I don't know that they're going to do it right necessarily, and last I remember Taz said he didn't see himself returning to the ring, but that could have easily changed by now. Either way he could add one hell of an interesting element to the TNA product, and I'm very curious to see where he fits in. He is a former World Champion, so would he become part of the Main Event Mafia? Does he take the side of AJ, Daniels and company? And let's be honest, if they can lure him into the ring the inevitable Taz/Joe match will be freaking awesome. Taz has the mic skills to deliver some good work and if he's still physically capable, this could make for some good stuff.

4 for 6


7. The Undertaker will feud with and face Chris Jericho at WrestleMania XXVI.

Owain Brimfield: FICTION: Glorious though that would undoubtedly be, my vote is going towards a Punk/Taker program on the Dead man's return and later in the lead up to WM26. The company has shown they have strong faith in Punk, and with his heel turn gaining momentum a WM feud against the Undertaker would be manna from heaven for the straight edge superstar. Besides, Taker's already done with a "veterans" feud, having polished off Shawn Michaels at WMXV, and a run with Jericho would feel somewhat like re-treading the same ground. Whether Punk can be the man to end the Streak I doubt, but for me he's more of a value choice than Y2J.

Jeremy Thomas: FICTION: I think it's really, REALLY early to even begin to speculate on what's going to happen at 'Mania 26. That being said, I could absolutely see it and if this statement were "The Undertaker SHOULD feud with and face Chris Jericho at WrestleMania XXVI," I'd be fact-ing the hell out of this one. With Jericho's angle leading up to last year's Mania about trashing the Legends, there's one Legend that Jericho didn't run up against, and that's the Phenom. I could absolutely see him going back on that run for a tiny bit before the Dead Man gets in the way, and the two have an extended feud that culminates at 'Mania where Jericho promises to "End the Legacy of a so-called Legend" in the Streak. As a total side note: in the TEW version of the WWE I've been running since the month before 'Mania, Jericho vs. Taker was the match I booked. Which, if this happens, means that I'm just way ahead of the curve, right? Anyway, I would love to see this match happen for 'Mania next year but I can't say with enough certainty that it will happen to label this Fact.

5 for 7


8. Re-signing Sheik Abdul Bashir to a new three-year deal was a bad move, considering they recently let Petey Williams go.

Owain Brimfield: FICTION: Despite being underused recently, Bashir has a great character in TNA and can bring a lot to the table. Petey Williams has nothing to do with it; I miss the guy as much as the next TNA fan, but they were two separate members of the roster and renewing the contract of one has little effect on the other. The Sheik has a lot of potential in the X-Divison, and although he's been around for a little while there are still a large number of fresh feuds in which he could partake. One of TNA's strengths is creating storylines for the undercard and Bashir can bring a lot to the company during a three-year timeframe, and it won't take much to reignite the white heat he had a few months back, so it makes sounds business sense to renew his contract.

Jeremy Thomas: FICTION: It's a dick move to be sure, but it's not a bad move on TNA's part. They were trying to bring in some new blood and they cut Petey loose, then signed Bashir to three years. It keeps someone that they consider to be a potential star in their company and away from the WWE, who had shown an interest in bringing Daivari back. Plus, with the security of a contract that can continue to invest in the guy, knowing he's not going anywhere; hopefully this will pay off big for Bashir, who I consider a great talent who's willing to do anything to get himself over and help his company out. Besides, let's look at it this way...if we're going to give TNA shit every time they debut someone or put them in a major angle without signing them to a contract, shouldn't we give them props when they actually DO sign someone up?

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Come on back next week for more of 411 Fact or Fiction: Wrestling Edition!