High Road/Low Road 07.03.09: Samoa Joe in the Main Event Mafia
Posted by Sat & Chad Nevett on 07.03.2009
Winning storyline development or Main Event Mistake?
Welcome back to the High Road/Low Road!
A brief explanation of the column: Sat takes the High Road (positive view) on angles, gimmicks, and other wrestling related "stuff" while Uncletrunx takes the Low Road (negative view).
Results for the Commercial Free RAW:
High Road: 38%
Low Road: 31%
Both Roads: 31%
Samoa Joe In The Main Event Mafia
High Road:
I like Samoa Joe joining the main event mafia because he is much better as a heel. Samoa Joe is at his best when he does not care about what the fans are saying. Plus, he had been a baby face for so long that it was time for a change. Joining the Main Event Mafia was the best thing for Samoa Joe.
Low Road:
I can buy Joe as a heel, but not as part of a gang. I feel Joe is at his best playing the "Lone wolf" role, where all he cares about is winning his match. Being involved in the politics of a group is not the best use for him in my opinion.
High Road:
The addition of Samoa Joe to the Main Event Mafia gives the Mafia some much needed change. The group has been together for awhile now and the only real addition has been Jenna. If the Main Event Mafia had not added a new member, I think it would have been difficult for that group to remain in TNA because it would have gotten stale really quickly. Samoa Joe adds a new dimension to the group.
Low Road:
I think that losing Sting was the more logical of the recent changes and would in itself have been enough of a change to freshen things up. I'm not sure that adding Joe is needed at this time, and there's the risk that it will be overshadowed by the situation with Sting and thus take some of the heat out of Joe joining the MEM.
High Road:
The main problem with the Main Event Mafia is that they only had one guy who could really wrestle a long match and that was Kurt Angle. This was really obvious in the Lockdown match a few months ago. They really needed a guy who could wrestle and they got that with Samoa Joe.
Low Road:
I'm not sure that it's all that relevant how long they can go, given that they seem determined to keep the MEM in multi man main events on their Pay Per View shows. Perhaps this will change now, but I see no evidence of it with the whole MEM mugging Sting to end Impact; if they keep to the current formula, it makes no difference at all how many people they've got who can wrestle long matches as they can rely on tagging in and out, or taking it in turns to be involved.
High Road:
Samoa Joe joining the Main Event Mafia creates an interesting lineup of opponents for Samoa Joe. If Samoa Joe had not joined the Main Event Mafia, he would have had the following opponents: Kurt Angle, Scott Steiner, Kevin Nash, and Booker T. He has feuded with all of these guys and I have no interest in seeing this. On the flip side, with him joining the Main Event Mafia, Samoa Joe can feud with the following wrestlers: Sting, AJ Styles, and Jeff Jarrett. Samoa Joe joining the Main Event Mafia has given Samoa Joe a ton of interesting new opponents.
Low Road:
Potentially. However, it seems that the focus of the show is going to be on Foley, Angle, Sting and / or Jarrett. Joe's reason for joining seems a little bit underwhelming, especially when it's passed off somewhat glibly. It could lead to some interesting interaction with Sting, but only if they let Joe's character settle; at the moment it seems that they don't really know what to do with him character wise, and this all feels a bit thrown together. Contrast that with the Sting storyline, which feels far more thought out and I see the Sting storyline being the focus.
High Road:
There are two matches that I am looking forward to and they are possible because Samoa Joe joined the Main Event Mafia. The first one that I am looking forward to is Samoa Joe versus Sting. This could be a brain fart on my part, but I do not remember these guys having a one on one match up and I would love to see it (Edit: Wow, I really need to have my head examined. They met at last year's Bound for Glory.) The other match I know we have seen, but it has been a few years. I am of course talking about Samoa Joe versus AJ Styles.
Low Road:
Joe vs AJ could be great, if it's made a focus and allowed to develop as a main event feud, possibly for the title. As it stands, if they do go with it, it will be on the undercard of Foley vs Angle, or Sting vs whoever. AJ vs Joe deserves to be a main event feud, I just can't see that happening; it would be a shame to waste it as a mid card feud.
High Road:
TNA has been getting predictable. The only things that have shocked me were Mick Foley winning the TNA Title and Samoa Joe joining the Main Event Mafia. I think when something comes out of nowhere, there is an increase in the interest in your show. Nowadays, spoilers come out, so when something shocking happens that nobody expected, it makes for some interesting TV. Samoa Joe joining the Main Event Mafia was one of those things.
Low Road:
I give credit to TNA for trying to create interesting TV; that has to be a good thing. However, there have been a lot of "shocks" lately, including two here, with Joe joining MEM and Sting leaving MEM. I hope this doesn't descend into one of the worst aspects of Russo's past, an over reliance on shocks and swerves to keep people watching. I hope they can settle into some decent, logical, consistent storylines with an occasional entertaining twist; if they can, TNA will be the better for it. The risk is clearly there and is nowhere more clearly shown than with Joe joining the MEM.
Simply write "High Road", "Low Road", or "Both Roads" in the comment section.
E-Mails:
These are all of the e-mails that we received this week. We do not respond to the actual e-mail, but the reply to your e-mail will be below.
Freddy Neuwendyke Writes:
I'll actually say both roads in this case. High road because I did enjoy a lot of the matches offered especially Randy Orton and Triple H's Last Man Standing Match but also low because I see no purpose behind selling RAW to Trump only to have Vince buy it back the next week. And I gotta agree with Uncle Trunx That segment where the commentators were orgasming over The KFC Grilled Chicken screamed out cheesy product placement at the top of it's lungs.
Sat: I'll agree with the selling RAW for one week. And I had no problems with the KFC chicken at the announce table.
Uncletrunx: It just seemed a little bit much in a RAW which was hyped to the moon as "Commercial free". It was mildly amusing until I remembered it was taking up time to sell a product on a commercial free show. Still, at least it wasn't halfway through the main event.
Comments:
Below are the comments for last week's columns and our responses. Every comment will not be included because it makes our lives a lot easier.
The Gold Standard Writes:
Low Road.Good concept bad execution. The reason was the whole show was based around the Trump BS and the Last Man Standing match which we all knew would end up leading to a rematch at The Bash. Honestly RAW seems like its been twittering with the TNA writers on how to make their show stink.
Sat: I thought the commercial free RAW was one of the better RAWs in a long time.
Uncletrunx: I didn't. I saw more to dislike than to like.
Guest#1613 Writes:
High Road.
It scored a F'N 4.5 rating. How can you not say high road.
We get a Last Man Standing match, a good showing from the Smackdown guys, good storyline progression and all people can do is complain.
Product placement is NOT the same as other advertising. If Trux (BTW, this is the first time I'm reading this.. use your read damn names) is that upset by product placement I really hope he hates Transformers.
When I heard "commercial free"... to me that means we won't get matches broken in half, we won't cut away from the arena, and the KFC buckets on the announce table I thought was funny.
As another writer said elsewhere, I was amazed Lawler was able to restrain himself from making a breast and thighs joke during the Divas match... PG rating or not.
Sat: Funny. Telling us to use our real names (maybe these are our real names) and you don't use your real name. Unless your first name is Guest and your last name is #1612. Anyways onto your comment. I would agree that this is a high road based purely on the rating.
Uncletrunx: I wouldn't; if it scored a "5" rating and consisted entirely of "Kiss my Ass Club" segments with no wrestling, would you rate it high road? As for my name, I'll keep to my alias thank you "Mr Guest"; unless you fancy a mask vs mask match?
King boo Writes:
both roads
low road: no payoff to the Trump angle unless something happens next Raw. smackdown matches as good as they are do not need to be on Monday nights. Jim Ross stealing the Kings chicken.
high road: good last man standing match Finally an end to Miz/Cena verbal matches with announced fight for The Bash. decent build up to Legacy vs The Colons
Sat: Honestly, I have been able to separate the Trump thing from the commercial free RAW, but I understand if some of you are voting Low Road or Both Roads because of that.
Uncletrunx: A lot of the good stuff was setting up a future pay per view. I guess that's logical, but if the bad is the "now" stuff and the good is buildup for the future, I'd vote Low.
Jake Writes:
You talk about it not being commercial free because of the KFC bucket, and that is fine, but this is common practice. The Masters every year has 56 minutes of the hour commercial free, but there is also ad placement during the broadcast. The Masters. At least that is my memory of it, especially in the first couple of years that they did this.
I mean the Trump thing was kinda lame, and who listens to FOX News and takes it seriously anyway? The rating bump, and a pretty good WWE Title Match both outweigh the fact that Raw is bland, and it had me tuning in and paying attention for the night.
So High Road for the broadcast.
Low Road for retaining viewers, there is nothing there that would make me want to tune in as a must see Raw on Monday. I may watch it if I get home from practice early enough, but I may not.
Sat: Honestly, I had no problems with the KFC. You cannot expect a show to be commercial free.
Uncletrunx: You can if it's advertised as such. Perhaps it's just that I'm from over the pond, and such practice isn't allowed here to my knowledge. As for the rest of it, this type of comment is telling: "there is nothing there that would make me want to tune in as a must see Raw on Monday." That, to me, means RAW didn't take the opportunity.
The Glide Writes:
Both roads. They popped the rating like they wanted, they gave us something a little different to try and shake up the stagnant RAW, and they MAY get a few thousand extra casual viewers that stick.
That said, it was bad execution of a good idea. You have to book a great show to properly translate a gimmicky ratings pop into long-term ratings increases, and they didn't.
Sat: I think next week's rating is really going to tell a lot about if they were able to retain viewers.
Uncletrunx: I think that "bad execution of a good idea" sums it up very well.
M:-X Writes:
I'm going high road here. Everyone got a refund... we didn't have to sit through fifty thousand "just for men" ads. Nothing about fruity fruity skittles-- yeah, there was some crap but there is ALWAYS some crap. Trunx you seem to think anything craptacular on the show ALWAYS "overshadows" the good. We had the Smackdown guys do there thing, we had some twists & turns, we got rid of Santina and got Santino back, Miz & Cena was pretty awesome. So what if we had to endure a little trump silliness here. They did everything in their power to make this as "free" as possible-- do you bitch about a free sandwich just cause there's too much mayo or something? If I was at that show live I'd be giving them a free pass on ALL of that just for the fact that I was getting entertained live for free-- perhaps you wish Trump had refunded their parking too? ;-)
And on a personal note-- watching Raw and not having to see any of those BS AWFUL Partnership for a Drug Free America commericials was simply glorious (like the stupid judgemental dog giving the kid crap for burning a J...) Whatever the normal "logic" is for having them, it was an extreme high road to me to not have them at all for a night.
Sat: The only problem that I had with the commercial free RAW was no bathrooms breaks. I think people have a right though to complain about the Trump thing. I thought it was stupid to do something for a week.
Uncletrunx: To be fair, it's my job to find the low road; it'd be a dull column if all I did was agreed with Sat! As such, the bad is likely to overshadow the good. However, if I'm overusing that phrase, I'll try to cut down a bit. I don't want it to become "Vintage Trunx", if you see what I mean.
Hartfan Writes:
i am gonna have to take the low road on this one. what a dumb payoff. am i the only one who got a little excited when Trump said that he didn't believe in gm's(probably am, lol), but instead he was gonna have a celebrity host each week? the reason i got a lil excited was because you never know which celebrity is gonna be the host and i would assume that they would kinda have to be wrestling fans. you never know who their favorite wrestler is or most hated wrestler is gonna be, and what they're going to do with both, etc...they could have had a lot of different storylines with this for various wrestlers. not to mention the fact that i am pretty sure that a whole collection of celebrities would be lining up to host the damn show, finally coming out of the closet to show their love for wrestling(and bump shoulders with "the Donald"). talk about getting your product mainstream publicity again. but alas, it was not meant to be, instead in the end we all got "McMahon'ed". or maybe i just smoked too much weed while watching raw on monday...whatever the case, that was my vision damnit, lol.
Sat: The one week Trump thing really got on my nerves because I had already finished a column on him as Owner. I essentially wrote two columns last week.
Uncletrunx: Luckily for me, I'm usually much later than Sat in writing the column otherwise I'd be annoyed for the same reason.
Luna Writes:
Once again, I have to take the low road. I didn't fall asleep this time (surprisingly -- but I was hopped up on caffeine) but the commercial free RAW was a good concept that just failed miserably in execution.
The product placement didn't bother me at all, but the whole show had very poor pacing. It was as if they were stumbling around to figure out something to do where the commercials normally were -- odd, considering they have little problems with that in Pay-Per-Views. Show a GOOD video package or something!
I feel sorry for Sat right now, trying to defend the trainwreck that is Monday Night Raw. Throw him a bone and do a Smackdown column next week!
Sat: Honestly, I have had no problems writing these RAW columns these past few weeks. If I don't feel like writing on a topic I won't write it. I can pretty much guarantee to everybody that I am not taking the High Road on Michelle McCool. Now, if Uncletrunx would like to take the High Road and I take the Low Road, then you guys might see a topic on her.
Uncletrunx: Or you might not.
The Great Captain Smooth Writes:
High Road. We had some nice matches, Cena respond to Miz, a cool ass camera trick with Santino, Vince going piggy back riding, a "Donald Trump" chant?, a better flow for matches without the breaks, some nice carnage in the LMS match, and shameless plugging for Kentucky Grilled Chicken. I will say the Trump angle ended rather abruptly, but I've heard that it is not over.
Sat: I wanna see where this Donald Trump thing is going before commenting on it. And don't expect a column on it unless it is going to be a long term angle.
Uncletrunx: Cena and Miz was, I'll admit, a great moment. Cena at his very best here.
SuperJeff Writes:
The WWE has the fans wanting a good show, I believe we would follow a bad storyline for a while to see where it goes rather than the BS of one week storylines. I can honestly say, I will watch RAW every week until it stops or I do, I am a wrestling fan and a WWE fan. They have lost their way over the last few years, but if they would just build up more storylines and when the payoff happens, do not keep doing it afterward. Why is Cena v. Show still going on? HHH v. Orton is ok, but only because HHH was gone for 6 weeks. Focus on The US title and tag titles a bit more. You can have the same 4 guys at the top forever, but not building up the rest of the roster really backs you into a corner. An injury happens to HHH and we will have Orton/Cena for the next 4 months.
Think long term WWE and have back up plans for injuries. This is not new to you guys, you should be ashamed.
Sat: The thing with Orton/HHH is this. I think the storyline sucks, but the matches have been good.
Uncletrunx: I hope WWE build up Miz, Morrison and a few others over the next 12 months as well as keeping Punk in the mix; these guys could be great if WWE suffers another injury crisis – given the sad injury history of HHH, Batista et al, it could happen and these guys could well be the future. I just hope they don't go the way of Mr Kennedy.
JLAJRC Writes:
I gotta go High Road. This is what they should have done for the 3 hour RAW. The matches were good and the comedy bits were actually kind of funny. I was actually kind of hoping that they were going through with Trump's plan for dumping GM's in favor of celeb guest hosts. Plus, there was actually a ratings bump, something that whole WWE/Denver Nuggets fiasco didn't do.
Sat: The one thing about this RAW is that they gave away the main event for the Bash and also had Big Show and John Cena. If they start giving these matches away more often, then they will be huge trouble.
Uncletrunx: I will concede that it was better than the 3 hour RAW, but I still thought there was a problem with the execution of the idea.
Your reasons for taking the High Road, Low Road, or Both Roads and suggestions for future High Road/Low Road are welcome at satuncletrunx@gmail.com or in the comment section. Your reply will be included in next week's column.
While I'd argue that it's too early to say, my inclination right now is Low Road. Here's why....
First of all, regardless of Nash's "we couldn't beat him, so we- uh, HE joined US" rationalizing, Joe does NOT come out of this development looking strong. He comes out looking like he dropped the entire motivation of his character. Almost like he was a character in the third season of 'Heroes'. He goes from being "the nation of violence" to being yet another in the long list of TNA wrestlers who pulled a shocking(ly ridiculous) swerve and, in doing so, forfeited a title belt and/or their entire persona, with the benefit gained being questionable at best. The benefit Joe gains here is - I swear TNA has used this line a million times now - "to rule the wrestling world." Seriously? That megalomaniacal motive kinda ties in to point number two...
I guess I'll mention the obvious next: HE NEARLY MURDERED MORE THAN ONE MEMBER OF THE M.E.M. Even in COMIC BOOKS, this circumstance makes characters more hesitant to team up. Why can't any member of TNA's roster seem to react to things as rationally as Wolverine or the fucking Punisher?
Like I said, this is one of those "too early to call" situations. That being said, we've seen this type of thing from TNA before, and even before that, we saw it all the time in WWE back in 1998/99. But I still like to be sure before making judgments... They could think of ways around the glaring inconsistencies and make this a really compelling character development for Joe, but since this is TNA, let's not hold our breat, huh?
Posted By: KanyonKreist (Registered) on July 03, 2009 at 06:09 PM
"This could be a brain fart on my part, but I do not remember these guys having a one on one match up and I would love to see it."
Epic brain fart; they main evented the last Bound for Glory event haha
Posted By: Chris (Guest) on July 03, 2009 at 06:32 PM
Both Roads.While I think Joe in the mafia is a step backwards for him, I actually care for the guy now.He now has a role as a henchmen to do the dirty work for the mafia.I just hope theres a big pay off in all this and the mafia does break up and become mafia red and black or something dumb like the later nwo did although wolfpac ruled.
Posted By: The Gold Standard (Guest) on July 03, 2009 at 06:32 PM
Both Roads. Low, because he doesn't really fit the group. He's too young to go shouting about "respect". Maybe he will in the future, but not now. High, because I get the sense that this is all a trick that will lead to Nash getting a Tazplex. I seriously doubt that will happen, but I think Taz will be behind it and it would be a high profile debut for the guy.
Posted By: The Great Capt. Smooth (Guest) on July 03, 2009 at 06:43 PM
High Road.
Posted By: la icecream ola (Guest) on July 03, 2009 at 07:01 PM
High road
tna is getting really stale (well, at least in my opinion) and putting samoa joe in there can really 'shake things up'
Posted By: ray (Guest) on July 03, 2009 at 07:41 PM
In my opinion, The Trump Angle was obviously done in place of The Million Dollar Giveaway and McMahon was willing to take the stock hit to do it. He's use to the media reporting happenings like this as "Real" by now. He got the trade dispursing his ECW back-ups, moderate publicity, a possible great solution to the GM problem, and he got to stand side by side with Trump making him look more important than he really is. If anyone knows how McMahon could take a Higher Road I'd like to hear it.
I'm tired of defending Vince Russo being a TNA and WCW mark. I've been doing it since he "turned WCW upside down". I'm a huge Sting fan so I love him taking a stable on independantly (hopefully he still has the same perspective on the other guys) but I get a weird feeling in the pit of my stomach. If anyone can mess it up Russo can. Please prove me wrong! I'll buy a shirt or something.
Posted By: Burnout (Guest) on July 03, 2009 at 08:31 PM
Low Road.
Joe just needs to retire because when ever I see him now, all I can think of is him holding a knife to someone's throat. Some booker destroyed Joe and nothing he will ever do can ever fix it. Just quit now Joe.
Posted By: David (Guest) on July 04, 2009 at 12:05 AM
high road
Posted By: guest (Guest) on July 04, 2009 at 01:40 PM
First off, I don't watch a lot of TNA. However, I do catch a few segments a week while channel surfing and get the 411 from this site.
I will take High Road, for the simple fact that Joe can play it anyway he wants. Stay in the MEM and see if your character can handle the change, if not, you have "infiltrated" and can start new old feuds. Lets see where it goes.
Posted By: SuperJeff (Guest) on July 05, 2009 at 12:16 AM
Low Road.
Posted By: Guest#8950 (Guest) on July 09, 2009 at 01:45 PM
